Tnlnsl A Rante!

[+The_Techno_Team]

I may not be a hardcore geocacher. I enjoy geocaching, especially in a new area it fullfills a need to explore and get outside.

 

But one thing I DO NOT understand:

 

TNLNSL.

 

I have seen the posts:

 

I do TNLNSL because I don't won't to carry anything (travel Light)

Give me a break....How much weight is just carrying fingernail clipper or some other simple object.

 

Second reason I heard: I don't have kids I don't need another cheap toy or gadget.

News Flash!!... NONE OF NEED THESE THINGS...

 

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them.. I love to read the log of someone else that visits a log and tells what they left and finally when I find that cache to actually see the item! It is all part of the experience.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Geocache was made on a premise. Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

We are becoming a nation of lazy, shortcut people. We need to put some effort into to this. IMO People that just TNLNSL just do not want to go through any hassle of preparing or just taking a little time or effort. The only exception is micro cache, where the very nature of the containers prohibit any trading.

 

I am sorry...When I see TNLNSL in a log...I just think

 

There it is off my chest. This is JUST MY OPINION

I don't need hate mail...I just see a trend and I had to put I two cents in.

 

As for me and My House we will allway LSTSSL!!

 

I wonder is anyone else feels the same.

[+Cherokeecacher]

We will often TNLNSL, but *try* to write a log that describes our adventure. I am sorry if it gripes you that we choose not to trade very often, but it gripes me when others try to dictate how we should play the game.

 

Sorry just had to get that off my chest.

[+Sputnik 57]

I really don't mind finders who don't trade, but I HATE cache logs that only say "TNLNSL" At least they could come right out and say "this cache was so pointless and ill-conceived that I refuse to waste my time writing about my visit (but I posted a smiley to get my numbers up)."

 

Personally, I don't always trade, but I always brinng trade items along (as does my team, when we cache together). I usually try to leave something to improve the cache for the next finder. When I do take an item, it is usually just a rememberance of the caching trip.

[+Pork King]

I usually don't take anything from a cache (unless it's a forgein or rare coin, I'm a sucker for coins), but I almost always leave something...Just for the reasons stated in the OP. I do not leave or take anything if:

The cache experience is substandard (same reason I don't tip mostly, but that's a whole new can of worms!), the cache is poorly maintained (I don't want an item I leave getting wet, too!)...and then there are the times I simply forget to bring my stuff.

 

So, while I may not always take, I almost always leave, and when I do trade, it's always UP^!

[+The_Techno_Team]

We will often TNLNSL, but *try* to write a log that describes our adventure. I am sorry if it gripes you that we choose not to trade very often, but it gripes me when others try to dictate how we should play the game.

 

Sorry just had to get that off my chest.

I am not trying to "Dictate" how to play the game.

 

This Quote is taken from the FAQ from Geocaching.com

http://www.geocaching.com/faq/

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

I am saying there is a way the game "Should" be played.

Doesn't get any plainer than that.

 

If people decide to do thing different, of course it is their choice.

However, it is not "Geocaching"

[+Kealia]

I leave items in 99% of the caches I visit and always try to leave something people will actually want.

 

When I do TNLN, it's either because I left the goodie bag at home (not in my backpack) or because the cache is in relaly bad shape (content wise) and all previous cachers and the owner have done nothing to fix it. I'm not talking about your average cache, I'm talking about the ones where the last few logs say "cache is sparse", "cache needs help", "contents are wet", etc.

 

THAT having been said, if I read the logs before heading out I'll try to bring stuff to clean up the cache.

 

Don't be too quick to judge - there are lots of possible reasons for it.

[+The_Techno_Team]

When I do TNLN, it's either because I left the goodie bag at home (not in my backpack) or because the cache is in relaly bad shape (content wise) and all previous cachers and the owner have done nothing to fix it. I'm not talking about your average cache, I'm talking about the ones where the last few logs say "cache is sparse", "cache needs help", "contents are wet", etc.

 

THAT having been said, if I read the logs before heading out I'll try to bring stuff to clean up the cache.

 

Don't be too quick to judge - there are lots of possible reasons for it.

Thanks for that.

 

I know there are reason, when you just can't leave anything.

 

But I am talking about always TNLNSL.

 

I mean whats up with that?!

 

I know I am sounding like a jerk...and of course I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I just think we are slowly getting away from what geocaching was meant to be.

I think it is because we just don't want to put the effort into it.

 

Thanks again for the post.

[+ChileHead]

I may not be a hardcore geocacher. I enjoy geocaching, especially in a new area it fullfills a need to explore and get outside.

 

But one thing I DO NOT understand:

 

TNLNSL.

 

I have seen the posts:

 

I do TNLNSL because I don't won't to carry anything (travel Light)

Give me a break....How much weight is just carrying fingernail clipper or some other simple object.

 

Second reason I heard: I don't have kids I don't need another cheap toy or gadget.

News Flash!!... NONE OF NEED THESE THINGS...

 

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them.. I love to read the log of someone else that visits a log and tells what they left and finally when I find that cache to actually see the item! It is all part of the experience.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Geocache was made on a premise. Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

We are becoming a nation of lazy, shortcut people. We need to put some effort into to this. IMO People that just TNLNSL just do not want to go through any hassle of preparing or just taking a little time or effort. The only exception is micro cache, where the very nature of the containers prohibit any trading.

 

I am sorry...When I see TNLNSL in a log...I just think

 

There it is off my chest. This is JUST MY OPINION

I don't need hate mail...I just see a trend and I had to put I two cents in.

 

As for me and My House we will allway LSTSSL!!

 

I wonder is anyone else feels the same.

Probably 99% of my logs have TNLNSL, unless I bring my kids. But I generally try to add a story if possible, about the cache or my route to it. I don't see the point in trading. For me, the whole point is getting out in the woods, finding a new area I haven't been in before, finding a creative hide, taking pictures, or just getting there before anybody else does.

 

We all play for different reasons.

 

I go out at 1am sometimes to get a FTF. I would never say "anything else is just plain laziness" because people don't play the FTF game.

 

If you want to trade trinkets - great! If you want to write only TNLNSL, that's ok too. If you want to write a long story, even better! Don't want to post a find because you don't like the numbers thing? OK too.

 

You've got 19 finds. After a few hundred you may feel different!

[uperdooper]

i'm not an author. most of my caching is done in the rain, winter, or when the skeeters are so bad, insanity seems better. i'm not robbing a cache if i TNLNSL. just not a verbal person.

 

wait! i take that back. i am verbal, here in the forums. where i want to be verbal. where it's not raining, cold, or buggy.

Edited December 17, 2004 by uperdooper

[+Jennifer&Dean]

For me caching is about going to a place. Once I'm there I will search for the cache but it is secondary to the reason I am there- the place. And even if I don't find the cache, I have still been to the place, so I can be happy to have been brought there even as I log the DNF.

While trading is one way to interact with the cache, it is not MY reason to cache. I log the book, trade if I want to, and try to enjoy the place. This is why I tend to ask myself WHY am I being brought HERE when we find caches in wal-mart parking lots. I figure someone is trying to give me a hint that we don't trade enough and here is a good place to buy stuff.

Bring me somewhere I enjoy and like and I will trade. Take me somewhere lame and I won't bother. The quality of my trades aligns mainly with my enjoyment of the cache placer's location and cache. But I will trade for cool items in the cache when I have something of equivalent value to trade for it.

Again, trading is secondary for the way I play this game.

-J

[Mushtang]

I probably TNLN in 99% of all caches I find, but in 99% of my online logs I write more than that. Usually I try to write something to share my experience of the cache, and give some feedback. If the cache is really just lame, I'll only log TNLN.

 

To me, caching has nothing to do with the items that I can trade for, it's all about the hunt. Trying to find the cache container is where most of the fun is.

 

Writing the logs online, and watching my numbers grow is fun too.

 

Trading items got old pretty fast.

 

Are you upset with online logs that only say TNLN, or are you upset that people like myself don't enjoy trading items?

[+Team Perks]

I don't even remember the last time I traded. How is swapping one item I don't need for another item I don't need considered "robbing"? I just don't see the relation.

 

I like to write interesting stuff about what I saw at the cache or what happened on the way there. You will never see a "TNLNSL" log from me--that's just tacky. My reward is the experience--the journey, the hunt, the find. I couldn't care less about picking up somebody's used golf ball or used toy from a cache.

[SFABobby03]

If TNLN isn't caching then I guess we must get rid of all the micro's that don't have room for trade items. It is geocaching whether or not you take something and leave something.

[+Kit Fox]

I may not be a hardcore geocacher. I enjoy geocaching, especially in a new area it fullfills a need to explore and get outside.

 

But one thing I DO NOT understand:

 

TNLNSL.

 

I have seen the posts:

 

I do TNLNSL because I don't won't to carry anything (travel Light)

Give me a break....How much weight is just carrying fingernail clipper or some other simple object.

 

Second reason I heard: I don't have kids I don't need another cheap toy or gadget.

News Flash!!... NONE OF NEED THESE THINGS...

 

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them.. I love to read the log of someone else that visits a log and tells what they left and finally when I find that cache to actually see the item! It is all part of the experience.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Geocache was made on a premise. Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

We are becoming a nation of lazy, shortcut people. We need to put some effort into to this. IMO People that just TNLNSL just do not want to go through any hassle of preparing or just taking a little time or effort. The only exception is micro cache, where the very nature of the containers prohibit any trading.

 

I am sorry...When I see TNLNSL in a log...I just think

 

There it is off my chest. This is JUST MY OPINION

I don't need hate mail...I just see a trend and I had to put I two cents in.

 

As for me and My House we will allway LSTSSL!!

 

I wonder is anyone else feels the same.

I rarely trade unless my daughter sees a toy that she fancies.

 

I do take travel bugs to help them on their missions.

 

You'll start seeing more of the typical junk that caches get filled with over time (cache degradation). You'll realize that you don't need, nor want broken mc-toys, or strange food items left in caches, or cheep motel soap, and used golf balls.

 

In my case, it has nothing to do with laziness, it has more to do with my preferences as to what I want to trade. If I see something I actually want, I'll trade for it. This happens less often now. I do occasionaly drop items off without trading.

 

I do take the time to share my experience in the online logs.

 

 

Find more caches and you'll see what we are talking about.

[+Ed & Julie]

Hmmmm...is it a troll or a sincere question? I'll bite...

 

There are those who feel the spirit of geocaching lies in the hunt, not the trade.

A sucsessful day is looking for the cache and finding it. Trading is purely optional.

 

I think the guideline means to state (even if it doesn't exactly say say so, it implies) IF you take something, LEAVE something.

 

I have some trade items that keep with me to trade with if something unusual strikes my fancy, but for the most part, I just leave our signautre token and rarely take anything.

 

Does how or what another cacher trades really effect your day that much? If someone finds my cache, I'm excited about it. What they trade (or don't) makes me no nevermind.

 

Ed

[+TotemLake]

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

I am saying there is a way the game "Should" be played.

Doesn't get any plainer than that.

 

If people decide to do thing different, of course it is their choice.

However, it is not "Geocaching"

Hmmmm... and yet... people are told it's ok to play the game their way to have fun. You can't have it both ways. Why stress over it?

[Jeremy]

1. Take memories (oh, and garbage)

2. Leave footprints

 

[+sduck]

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them.. I love to read the log of someone else that visits a log and tells what they left and finally when I find that cache to actually see the item! It is all part of the experience.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Geocache was made on a premise. Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

You don't get it. Yet. You've only found 19 caches. Find several hundred, and see if you still feel the same way.

 

I almost alway take nothing and leave nothing, but I almost never sign my log TNLNSL. I can usually find something positive to say.

 

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them..

Not so. The main experience is finding the cache, enjoying the trip, the location and the hiding technique. Physical prizes are the least memorable part of the experience, at least for me. And I'm certainly not robbing anyone else's experience with my visit.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Good for you! Sometimes I happen to have something along with me that's tradeable, but most of the time I'm not that organized - that's the joy of paperless caching - getting out and looking for caches when you happen to be in the neighborhood of one.

 

Geocache was made on a premise. Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

You play by your rules, I'll play by mine, and we'll both be happy.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

Don't try to suck my joy out of the game just because I'm not playing with your rules. There's room for both of us.

 

I'm glad you took the time to vent. Don't you feel better now? And maybe you can see another side to your position!

[+G-Squad]

When I cache alone, I usually tnlnsl. There is not much that I find in a cache that will interest this 41 year-old male. I will try to write more than tnlnsl unless it is one of the "on the side of the road" micro's or in a busy public place. I tend to expound more with my on-line logs. If I am with the kids, then trading usually occurs. But again, it will depend what's in the cache.

[+Map Only]

I too have been guilty of many tnlnsl logs. I usually do this out of laziness, or because what I brought is not nearly as cool as what I found.

 

All my hides are in really cool spots, so the caches are more about the location that trading, and unfortunately the locations sometimes make micros necessary. My apologies to toy-traders!javascript:emoticon('')

[+rusty_tlc]

I mostly sign the phyisical log TNLNSL TFTC. If it's a nice day and I'm in the mood, or the cache is stellar, I'll write a few lines. Otherwise I save it for the on line log. Lets face it how many cache owners go to the cache and read every entry? I enjoy reading the log notifications for my caches and think others will be reading theirs more than the phyisical log too.

 

I find caches, I hide caches. I support the local organizations. How am I hurting the sport again?

[+leatherman]

1. Take memories (oh, and garbage)

2. Leave footprints

 

Ditto!

[+GEO.JOE]

I think the guideline means to state (even if it doesn't exactly say say so, it implies) IF you take something, LEAVE something.

 

"What is Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache. "

 

The FAQs do not just imply that trading is optional they state that it is optional.

 

As others have said over time caches will degrade and others that enjoy to trade need more cachers like you that want to see new and interesting swag in the caches, but it is not fair for you to say that those that do not change out the swag are robbing everyone of an experience. TNLN is a lot better than a cacher near me that takes every thing nice and leaves motel soap and used golf balls.

Actual quotes:

Here is one of their first finds after I pointed the undesirability of their trades and problems with scented items like soap.

 

"took pin

left golf ball & bar of soap (PLEASE DON"T LEAVE SCENTED THINGS IN CACHES!!!)

Great cache, Thanks a lot"

 

"Took play-doh, light stick, and shell (will try and make it a tb) & bag in film canister

Left golf ball and Z100 FM keychain

signed log book

We found two bags and filled them with garbage and used the CITO bag in film canister and filled it with garbage also. Considering the amount of trash we hauled out, we left WAY more behind. mabye someone should do a CITO event here"

 

"took bats, bubbles, ball, and beads

left barbed wire and beat up penny

soda machine nearby has been stolen from. dollar bill opening is melted and cut"

 

The last few TNLN thanks for the cache logs are a definite improvement.

 

I wish everyone that finds a cache before me would take something crappy and leave something nice. Then every cache would be the treasure I hope it will be. I do my best to leave a cache in better shape than I found it. This may include any thing from taking out moldy/broken/rusted items to replacing a cache box and all new swag. In more cases than not I will take nothing and leave something. Very few of my finds are TNLN unless there was a problem with a leaky cache or the cache being muggled.

 

This is a wonderful game due to the diversity of cache locations, difficulty of cache hides and terrain, and spectrum of different people playing the game. With the multitude of variations within the game this allows everyone to play the type of game they enjoy. As quoted above: "a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards." Rewards to others are more than trinkets left in the cache by precious cachers and the cache owner.

Fairy Flirt and I enjoy the scenic/historic locations and nice hikes in new locations. We prefer two caches in great locations a day over a dozen easy cache in mediocre locations. When we have our nieces we hunt the caches near playgrounds-they enjoy the hunt but the after-hunt fun on a new playground is the prize for them. My nephew wants a place he can climb on some rocks. The kids enjoy trading items, Fairy Flirt enjoys reading and writing in the cache log, and I enjoy telling the story on line, many times I forget to mention what we left at the cache but most everyone around here knows that if they find one on my Elvis coins or other signature items I have beaten them to the cache.

 

Techno Team I appreciate your passion for th game you like to play and I highly encourage you to do all you can to play the game you enjoy. By leaving fresh swag you will be making the find for the next cacher very special. If you are going after a cache where the last 3 cachers TNLNSL don't read their logs, instead look for the trade items from the 4th, 5th, and 6th cacher ago. You can also watch the caches for travel bugs or signature items and hunt those. As I mentioned earlier there are many ways to play and enjoy geocaching.

 

Just do your best to enjoy your new hobby.

Happy caching.

 

GEO.JOE

[+BadAndy]

Mom always told me...If ya can't say something nice, don't say anything.

[+Runaround]

I used to trade a long time ago but after a few caches it just became pointless. Now I rarely trade and when I do it's usually to get a new sig item I haven't already collected.

 

To try and add a little variety one day, I decided to play "pass it along" with a trade item. I started with a waterproof brass match case and traded it at the first cache. I then traded the next item I picked up at each subsequent cache during the day. My only rule was that I had to trade up. After about a 6 caches that day I ended up with a Sully McToy that was cracked, missing one arm, and looked like the dog had chewed on it. I managed to go from a $5 new item still in the original package to a broken piece of junk someone got from free when they bought their kid McNuggets.

[WH]

Its a heck of alot better that TELNSL.

[+The_Techno_Team]

Alas, I appreciate all the post. I did not sit out to say anything "not nice" just putting out another view.

 

I think from all the post I have read...everyone just feels thier geocaching has nothing to do with anyone else. I will just do what I want to do.

 

That's fine of course. I just don't see why it would be a big deal for anyone to take something, leave something. I mean you could just leave the item from the previous cache. So you never have to have more than one item.

 

For me, I just feel we are participating in a past time with other people. It is just not all about me.

 

If That is case. Why don't we just put only logbooks in all the cache.

I know lets just call it Logcaching or GeoLogging!

 

I am not telling anyone what to do ...Just putting out another point of view.

Maybe I will feel different after a few hundred caches..

 

Don't mean to offend...Just having a friendly discussion. Maybe this topic is more sensitive than I thought.

I really do enjoy all the effort the people make when they put out caches and everyone that plays this wild game of geocaching. It truly is a pretty cool hobby.

 

Thanks to all the joined in. I appreciate EVERYONE's comments.

Cache On!

[Deego]

1. Take memories (oh, and garbage)

2. Leave footprints

 

Ditto!

Double ditto (plus I normally take photos )

[+ZackJones]

More and more I'm becoming TNLSSL (Took Nothing, Left Something, Signed Log).

 

When I first started I traded in every cache I found. After a while I started finding caches that didn't have anything in them that I wanted and I finally figured out what I wanted to start leaving in each cache. Now if I see something that I really want I'll take it.

 

As a cache owner it doesn't bother me if someone posts a TNLNSL entry. What is important to me is that they were able to find the cache.

[+Divine]

We are becoming a nation of lazy, shortcut people.

But we are not. (No, I don't trade often either.)

[+Team Tigger International]

As a cache owner it doesn't bother me if someone posts a TNLNSL entry. What is important to me is that they were able to find the cache.

 

QUOTE (Jeremy @ Dec 16 2004, 08:06 PM)

1. Take memories (oh, and garbage)

2. Leave footprints

 

Double and triple DITTO to those !

 

Star of Team Tigger International

 

Edit to Include : And just because someone choses to TN/LN does not mean that they are lazy .... If a person was Lazy they wouldn't be out GEOCACHING in the first place.

Edited December 17, 2004 by Team Tigger International

[+matokuwapi]

I usually trade. I think I only did two TNLN, but I left a nice log entry. What irks me is when I find rusty bottle caps (not antique or rare), rocks (not one that looked like someone took the time to hunt for a nice one and clean it up a bit) ....garbage, (rotting plastic party lae (sp)) etc. used to trade. You get the drift. The whole concept is if you are going to trade...you trade with something of equal or better value. I know that leaves an opening. Most folks put a lot of care into putting a cache out there. Many traders put a lot of care into what they trade....BUT a goodly portion of cachers take the goodies and leave the rocks.

 

I may not always take something from a cache...usually the ones that have seen a lot of "down traders". If there isn't something in there that i can take...and move to another cache without feeling bad about it...I won't take anything. I ALWAYS try to leave something.

 

I'm still a newbie to this game, but I recently noticed that there is a growing number of cachers that collect "signature items".

 

Geo-Creations

 

Because of that, I came up with my own "signature item" in the last week. I will, at the very least, leave that in any cache I find. Trade or no trade. That might be a good suggestion for those folks who always TNLN. Nothing fancy. (Geo-business cards, wooden nickles, costom coins, pins or fridge magnet cards with your stamp on it etc.) At least you leave something that might attract more to the game.

 

I like the hunt for what I see along the way...but there are others who like the cache for what's inside. (add to collections) I have heard comments from more than a few that they stopped caching because all they would find was junk. Well you can't make everyone happy, but you can make it more interesting. Give some thought to what you put in the next cache....even if it's just a good story. Yes I do read the logs. For me...it's not about wracking up numbers.

 

With caches...think about a possible oppertunity to provide "random acts of kindness" when you find one in bad shape.

Edited December 17, 2004 by matokuwapi

[M15a4spr]

I may not be a hardcore geocacher.  I enjoy geocaching, especially in a new area it fullfills a need to explore and get outside.

 

But one thing I DO NOT understand:

 

TNLNSL.

 

I have seen the posts:

 

I do TNLNSL because I don't won't to carry anything (travel Light)

Give me a break....How much weight is just carrying fingernail clipper or some other simple object.

 

Second reason I heard:  I don't have kids I don't need another cheap toy or gadget.

News Flash!!... NONE OF NEED THESE THINGS...

 

When a person TNLNSL it robs everyone after them..  I love to read the log of someone else that visits a log and tells what they left and finally when I find that cache to actually see the item!  It is all part of the experience.

 

There are many times..I begin to go get a cache, but before I begin, I look around and get something to leave.

 

Geocache was made on a premise.  Find the cache ...Take something...Leave something....Log your visit.

 

In my opinion, anything else is just plain laziness.

 

We are becoming a nation of lazy, shortcut people.  We need to put some effort into to this.  IMO People that just TNLNSL  just do not want to go through any hassle of preparing or just taking a little time or effort. The only exception is micro cache, where the very nature of the containers prohibit any trading.

 

I am sorry...When I see TNLNSL in a log...I just think 

 

There it is off my chest.  This is JUST MY OPINION

I don't need hate mail...I just see a trend and I had to put I two cents in.

 

As for me and My House we will allway LSTSSL!!

 

I wonder is anyone else feels the same.

How can you defend this statement, "TNLNSL it robs everyone after them". Nothing changed other than 1 slot on the log being filled.

 

Frankly, there's to many rules now.

Can't leave this, *whine* it's to 'pointy'.

Can't leave that, *whine*"what about the children!?" (Grow up and be a parent and tell your spawn NO, you can't trade for that item, pick another)

Can't leave those, *whine* someone may get their feeeeeelings hurt.

 

Don't like it? Learn the abriviation "T.S." and get over it. That's the direction this game is headed.

 

(IF it survives Link )

Edited December 17, 2004 by M15a4spr

[+bigredmed]

I really don't mind finders who don't trade, but I HATE cache logs that only say "TNLNSL" At least they could come right out and say "this cache was so pointless and ill-conceived that I refuse to waste my time writing about my visit (but I posted a smiley to get my numbers up)."

 

The more likely thing they would expose is that that particular cacher is:

 

TLTWAPL

 

"Too Lazy To Write A Proper Log-entry"

 

____

 

I sympathize with the original post. TNLN just abdicates your responsibility to the game. All of us who have been lucky enough have come across a cache with some interesting items in it. Perhaps none of them were expensive, but all were cool. Looking through the logs and the stuff was a high point of the cache. When a cache is full of junk, or its empty, its just not the same.

 

For those who don't like to trade, develop an affordable sig item or go on ebay's wholesale lots and find some item that you can buy in bulk and use as a signature item. Then you can TNLS (trade nothing, left something) and help ehance the cache for future finders.

[+woodsters]

Sometimes we will leave something and sometimes we won't. Sometimes we will write something about the area or falling into the creek or something, but other times we won't. Whether a person does a TNLNSL all the time really shouldn't matter and I don't see how they are "robbing" other cachers. It would be the same as if they found it'b but didn't sign the log at all. Be happy that at least they are recording their finds. Some people won't sign the logbook, but will log a find online. That pisses of some cache owners and they will delete the find. I would much rather someone not take something if they aren't going to leave something. Then you have those who will leave subjective items, subjective to at least the guidelines. But there could be many reasons why people don't trade items. And each have their own reasons. The last cache I did, I signed the log simply "Found" and my name and date. Reason: because I was on my way to work and running late. I didn't leave anything either, because the container was jam packed full of stuff and what I had would not fit. And for it to fit, I would of nearly had to empty the container out. So there it was best to just note the find and make better log online. There are far more things to grieve about than someone not trading at all.

[+Mule Ears]

I understand that the original poster and his hallelujah chorus are fans of trinket barter. No problem with that. But the idea that TNLNSL diminishes the quality of the cache is silly. Many of the threads here moan that the quality of cache contents deteriorates with time. My observation is that that is true. TNLNSL leaves cache contents unchanged. If caches deteriorate with time it is the cumulative effect of trades. So, on average, trades harm the quality of cache contents, while TNLNSLs are by definition neutral. So, relatively speaking, TNLNSL has a better effect on the cache than prevalent bad trading.

 

Suppose you succeeded in convincing TNLN cachers to change their ways by shaming them with this "not in the spirit of the game" stuff. Would they be more or less likely to be good traders than those who currently trade willingly? I'd say less, but for the sake of argument let's say that they'd be total converts and become no better or worse than the average trader. Caches would then deteriorate faster than they do now.

 

There's no rational basis for your peeve; you just want others to fall into line with your preference. Growing up, I had relatives who insisted that certain foods were objectively "delicious" and others objectively "repugnant." That is, right-thinking people loved salmon and idiots loved lamb. Therefore, it was the duty of the salmon-eaters to persuade the lamb-eaters to change their tastes. How well do you think this turned out? (It was hilarious at the dinner table.)

 

One of the things that appeals to many of us is that Geocaching is just a loose framework--not a Sport with a lot of hard-and-fast rules and umpires and referees. Place more strictures on it and you spoil it. Most of the gripes about GC concern rules that do exist.

 

As a final act of generosity, let me say this--Geocaching is such an open framework that it even allows busybody finger-wagging. And silly forum debates. So while the premise of this thread is irrational, it's part of the game too! Congratulations on expanding our game. Maybe we need an acronym for Took Something Left Something and Expressed Indignation at Those Who Did Not (TSLSEITWDN).

[+matokuwapi]

That's the direction this game is headed.

 

(IF it survives Link )

Lots of cachers are panicing over this. It's the LAST thing you should worry about.

 

The only time you'll ever see it turned off is the time you better be checking what plane your on, what building you're in or what bridge you are driving over. Then if you're in any of those places.....GULP! GPS has become too important in every day life to shut down for a Condition Orange. If the flag is Red....as far as I'm concerned, they can turn off anything they want if it will save a life.

[CoyoteRed]

If That is case. Why don't we just put only logbooks in all the cache.

I fully admit that I've only skipped through this thread, but this caught my eye.

 

As a matter of fact, if Sissy didn't make me put trade items in a new cache, I wouldn't!

 

As an aside, I usually have to make her cut the items in half when she creates one. She likes to stuff'em full!

 

For me, it's just about the hunt. I rarely trade enough to make it an important part of geocaching. We do tote around a good selection of trinkets in case there is something interesting, but if there weren't any trading, I wouldn't miss it.

 

In fact, I wish I could find the ammo can equivalent in about a quarter of the size to simply put a log book, stamp, and pen in--built like a tank and cheap.

 

But, on the flip side, Sissy loves the trading. She'll go through the whole cache looking, but will TNTL if there isn't anything that sparks her fancy. She loves going shopping for trades. She'll drop in a few items if the cache is low. She's just the opposite of me in this respect.

 

So considering she likes it, we have to do it.

 

Isn't that how is always is?

[+BlueDeuce]

Ok, I've read your 'position' several times and it seems to me that you are saying that the level of participation is directly related to trading.

 

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I think you are too focused on how people should share their experience.

 

Don't mean to offend...Just having a friendly discussion. Maybe this topic is more sensitive than I thought.

 

The topic isn't sensitive. It's sensitive because you are offending some people.

 

I don't trade very often and I usually just sign the log. I don't even write TNLN, just my name. So as far as I'm concerned you are talking about me.

 

Now, imagine you sent me an email asking to 'give you a break' calling me 'just plain lazy', that I 'just do not want to go through any hassle of preparing or just taking a little time or effort', and I'm one person in a nation looking for shortcuts.

 

Now, do you see why I might have a problem with that?

 

I am not obligated to trade. You don't like that? Too bad. I am not obligated to do any more than sign the log. You don't like that? Too bad.

 

You want to lable me as lazy? Then we're going to have a problem.

 

What do you tell people who send you a greeting card and only sign thier name?

Edited December 17, 2004 by BlueDeuce

[+Cocacola1820]

When we go caching we always bring a trinket box. We don't always trade because sometimes the items may not be interesting or worth trading for. We have a 7 yr old daughter who loves caching and enjoys rummaging through all the items but sometimes there's nothing she's interested in. If a cache is low on items we'll usually always add a few extra items to the cache. When I set up my 2 caches I made them strictly "kid friendly". We put in items that kids would love to trade as we know the importance of having something for the kids. Eventually there will be items that adults trade for and it all evens out. There have been times when I have actually swapped things for the kids items. Sometimes you can trade things out and use it for a neat travel bug. In the end though, not everyone will trade. The main thing for us is that we make a cache that is fun and it takes cachers to a place they may not have been to before. You go out and get some exercise. If you find something then swap it out. If not you've walked away having been somewhere that you've enjoyed and had fun, trinket or not!

[+Mopar]

I think this is another one of those cases where the number of finds a person has pertains to the discussion. 19 finds. So, you have bought 19 trinkets and traded for 19 trinkets. I'm sure from the initial post the OP isn't counting rusty bottle caps and broken McToy as trading (are they?); they are talking about reasonable decent stuff. That's historically been defined as worth at least $1. I'd hope after a rant like the first post, they arent the type to take a maglite and leave a 25 cent plastic ring. So that's almost $20 so far. Are you going to do that 100 more times? 1000 more times? 5000 more times? I don't know about anyone else, but if I wanted that many dollar store items on my shelf, I'd open up a dollar store!

[+The Leprechauns]

Somewhere along the way to 1,100 or so physical cache finds, the thrill of trading a McToy for an army man evaporated for me. I will leave the cache contents alone unless I have good reason to trade.

• If your cache is themed and I don't have an item to match the theme, I ain't tradin'.
  
• If it's a travel bug hotel/prison that requires leaving a bug to take a bug, I ain't tradin'.
  
• If the container is beyond repair, I can't fix it, and any item I left would just get wet, I ain't tradin'.
  
• If it's the 36th film canister under a lamp post for the day, I ain't tradin'.
  
• If it's raining or snowing so that exposing the cache contents for a long time will harm the cache, I ain't tradin'.
  
• If there's nothing cool that I haven't seen before at one of the previous 1,100 caches, I ain't tradin'.
  

So when do I trade?

• I've just started leaving signature items in caches that I like. They even fit in microcaches.
  
• If it's a nice cache that's low on trade goods, I'll leave something without taking anything.
  
• If my daughter's with me, we're about 50% more likely to trade something.
  
• For milestone caches (#100, #500, #1000, etc.) or for truly outstanding caches, I will leave a $20 bill as a surprise for the next finder.
  

Y'know, I'd rather do that last thing, and trade in one of every hundred caches, than to leave a cheap item in each cache. I love reading the stories of how the windfall gifts were spent. A hungry, wet group of wintertime cachers used the surprise Jackson to buy a hot lunch. A young boy excitedly visited the sporting goods store with his sawbuck. A fellow Appalachian Trail lover reinvested my twenty dollars by placing a new high-quality cache along a different section of the trail.

 

But the original poster would label me as detracting from the sport, for not trading most of the time? Fine. Lovely. Channel your energy however you want. I will stick to playing my game because I am having fun.

[+nicolo]

I am not telling anyone what to do ...Just putting out another point of view.

Maybe I will feel different after a few hundred caches..

I'm pretty sure that you will.

 

When I started mid-August of this year I traded at every cache I found. At around 75 finds I started to just look for things that interested me, always trading equal or up.

 

Now I seldom trade and leave a few notes in the logbook, saving my longer comments for the online log, which more people will have access to, especially those who are trying to decide if that particular cache is one that they want to hunt for.

[+tirediron]

I travel a great deal for work; I do quite a bit of my 'caching while travelling. I have a choice, take swag and GPS or take clothes and GPS... When I'm 'caching at home, I always have some swag with me.. I maybe trade 1/2 the time. One 'cache I found a while ago was nothing but a bucket of bi-fold door hardware... well, thanks, but all the closets I've got work fine... am taking something I don't want just to trade? Nope!

[+NickL]

I have been kind of reading and following this thread/topic for a bit now. It is time to add my $0.02, though mileage will vary. I am not a great log writer, the is doubly so since I don’t cache in the summer and it seems on those weekends when I do get out it is not the best weather (wet, cold, windy, or some combination of these three). My on-line logs tend to be a little longer but are still not of any literary value, after all I am not a writer by nature. I do try to say what was taken and left and anything interesting that I saw or happened.

 

I carry in my cachebag a collection of assort small toy items (not McToys) which I tend to drop at caches, a few if the cache seems to be getting low. At the same time I leave one or two more adult items in larger caches and always my “sig” item which is a gemstone (faceted smoky quartz for those that will ask).

 

I rarely take a trade item unless it is something that strikes my fancy (future TB usually) or is damaged/broken/wet.

 

I do cache alone, but have talked to and met many a cache-family and I do know how the children love the little trinkets and leaving different things in the cache for them to find gives me a good feeling.

 

As has been stated for me it is about the journey and the search.

 

As I started just my $0.02 and your mileage will very.

[+TotemLake]

Don't mean to offend...Just having a friendly discussion. Maybe this topic is more sensitive than I thought.

I really do enjoy all the effort the people make when they put out caches and everyone that plays this wild game of geocaching. It truly is a pretty cool hobby.

 

Thanks to all the joined in. I appreciate EVERYONE's comments.

Cache On!

I think a title that ends or starts with "A Rante" (sic) will always end up with passionate replies and defensive postures.

[+leatherman]

Displayed like a badge of honor!

[+fly46]

I don't think it's about trading, but quite frankly, TNLNSL is just logging laziness.

It's not that hard to write about something - even if it's a micro in a 'crappy' location.

 

"Walked up to this just in time to watch someone else walk up to the bench to wait for the bus. Luckily, we thought quickly on our feet, and Destitute bent down to "tie her shoe" as Momma Dirt clod and I pretended that she had just gotten off the bus not too long ago and I was meeting her there. Not that it mattered, the guy was deep into whatever he was listening to on his walkman so he didn't think a thing of us"

 

Sure, you could just easily say TNLNSL, but which log would you rather see?

[+PC Painter]

While I certainly agree that it's boring to read through logs that say nothing but TNLNSL, and it doesn't help to keep the caches interesting with items changing all the time...we gotta realise, that not everyone is in this for the same reason.

 

That being said, I can't understand a couple of things you said...

 

1) How can someone that gets up, gets out, drives to a spot, and then hikes from 1/2 to 3 miles round trip, be considered LAZY?! LOL!

 

2) How is leaving a cache exactly as you found it, robbing? What if they went out and found it, but also didn't even log it? You would never know they were there, and the only difference is that there's no ink on the paper. I'm not sure you should be upset at people, for just being honest that they were there, and writing it down.

 

Anyway....BTW...I have traded items at every cache I've found, except for the micros (of course).

[+woodsters]

Sure, you could just easily say TNLNSL, but which log would you rather see?

TNLNSL ..... and even if it is a *crappy micro* the log would not hold all what you wrote! If you want to know their experience, email them and ask them. Or read their online log which generally tends to be a litle more in depth.