New Pocket Query Type

December 29, 2004

I would like to see archived caches added as search option in the "selected types" field. If for no ohter reason than; just because a cache is archived doesn't mean it's gone, and archived finds are kinda unique/fun. Positive or negative thoughts are welcome....

December 29, 2004

I also would like archived caches shown in Pocket Queries. My reason is when I download a query of my 'FOUND' caches, the archived caches don't come through.

Geo Jeff

(leave more than you take)

December 29, 2004

Agree

7.2k · December 30, 2004

This has been discussed before, but I will move this to the appropriate forum for further discussion. It should be in the Geocaching.com Web Site Forum rather that the Geocaching Topics forum.

3.8k · December 30, 2004

I would like to see archived caches added as search option in the "selected types" field. If for no ohter reason than; just because a cache is archived doesn't mean it's gone, and archived finds are kinda unique/fun. Positive or negative thoughts are welcome....

This would be a great feature.

1.1k · December 31, 2004

I too would like to see this added to PQs.

But, if possible, I would prefer that archived ones not be simply included in the "is not active" search. I would suggest changing "is not active" to "is temporarily disabled" and add "is archived" and "is not archived" as two new check-boxes.

I would prefer that the gpx data in the PQ differentiate between the two types of non-availability.

9.1k · December 31, 2004

Please, please don't change the current way in which archived caches are handled on the website.... with the sole exception of including one's own logs on archived caches in a PQ of all caches logged.

When a geocacher (or the listing service) promises to a land manager that a cache will be removed from the listing service, that ought to mean "removed", not "freely searchable."

Please don't put me in violation of the land manager permits that I worked so hard to obtain for four of my caches. Thank you.

9.4k · December 31, 2004

We do not list archived caches. As part of the "found caches" pocket query, when it is complete, will not contain the coordinates (or contain truncated ones) but will contain a copy of your log entry.

1.1k · December 31, 2004

Please, please don't change the current way in which archived caches are handled on the website....

This thread has nothing to do with the removal process of caches or how archived caches are listed at the web site. At the web site one can currently see both disabled and archived geocaches (if you know how to do it).

This thread concerns only obtaining data in PQs on caches that are not active. Having the ability to obtain data on archived caches is important to some and I don't see how it could compromise any agreements.

9.1k · December 31, 2004

Hynr, how nice it must be to live in the great State of California where hiding a cache doesn't require a permit. What is the basis for your assertion that freely distributing archived cache information in pocket queries could not "compromise any agreements?" Please begin with the Pennsylvania DCNR's legal agreement for geocaches since that is the one I am worried about. Thank you.

Jeremy, thank you for your post. Your proposed solution strikes a proper balance between a finder's interest in historic personal data and the interests of a land manager and a cache owner in the archival of removed caches.

January 1, 2005

Would love to just get a one time pocket query of ALL my finds, including archived ones.

I could then fully 'stock' my GSAK database and have no problem keeping it current. I've played around trying to piece something together but it will takes days and involve a lot of jumping thru hoops. I'd rather just go find caches.

Just one time - perhaps a premium member bonus.

Please...

January 1, 2005

litttle off the "archive" side of this topic...have another question/request for pocket queries...

how bout locationless caches?

i use an ipaq and gsak to manage list of caches that while i'm wandering around can just open and see if i'm near

what i would like to have is a pocket query of the locationless caches i haven't completed in gpx format.

3.8k · January 1, 2005

litttle off the "archive" side of this topic...have another question/request for pocket queries...

how bout locationless caches?

i use an ipaq and gsak to manage list of caches that while i'm wandering around can just open and see if i'm near

what i would like to have is a pocket query of the locationless caches i haven't completed in gpx format.

Use the search function

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...locationless+pq

P.S. You can also use "locationless pocket query" in addition to the "locationless pq" search I ran.

January 1, 2005

thanks robert...guess i didn't look close enough through the query page

3.8k · January 1, 2005

no problem! it's a fairly frequent question, though not a blatantly obvious answer.

nice to have those locationless in the PDA though I don't ever remember any of them to know when I have seen one

January 3, 2005

We do not list archived caches. As part of the "found caches" pocket query, when it is complete, will not contain the coordinates (or contain truncated ones) but will contain a copy of your log entry.

Would this make it so you could not log a "find" on an archived cache?

8.9k · January 3, 2005

Just a quick question:

If you're proposing doing this with found caches - what about something as simple as the ability to query caches archived within the last week, and not sending out full coordinates.

The problem is GSAK and a few other programs containing stale data without knowing if the cache is archived or not.

5.6k · January 3, 2005

Would love to just get a one time pocket query of ALL my finds, including archived ones.

I could then fully 'stock' my GSAK database and have no problem keeping it current. I've played around trying to piece something together but it will takes days and involve a lot of jumping thru hoops. I'd rather just go find caches.

Just one time - perhaps a premium member bonus.

Please...

Why should this take days? I did it in less than an hour. Just view you own profile, click on the User Stats tab, then click the All Cache Finds link. Scroll thru these pages and open every red lined out cache. Save the GPX file for each page in one folder, then import that folder into GSAK.

2.4k · January 4, 2005

Just a quick question:

If you're proposing doing this with found caches - what about something as simple as the ability to query caches archived within the last week, and not sending out full coordinates.

The problem is GSAK and a few other programs containing stale data without knowing if the cache is archived or not.

That sounds like a 3rd party software problem. Perhaps GSAK should be re-coded so it doesn't store stale data.........

3.9k · January 4, 2005

We do not list archived caches. As part of the "found caches" pocket query, when it is complete, will not contain the coordinates (or contain truncated ones) but will contain a copy of your log entry.

Why wouldn't you want to send coordinates with the archived "Found" caches? The first thing I was hoping to do with the Found PQ is to put them in my map software so I can see them all.

It would be fun to overlay my Found caches with the weekly PQ of my local caches from time to time and see what that might show.

A few friends and I were looking forward to trading Found PQs so we can more easily see what the other person has done.

I'm hoping this is something you're still considering and it's not set in concrete yet.

2.8k · January 4, 2005

Just a quick question:

If you're proposing doing this with found caches - what about something as simple as the ability to query caches archived within the last week, and not sending out full coordinates.

The problem is GSAK and a few other programs containing stale data without knowing if the cache is archived or not.

That sounds like a 3rd party software problem. Perhaps GSAK should be re-coded so it doesn't store stale data.........

GSAK can delete/purge stale data, but the user must take the option to do it.

The fact they choose not to, indicates there is a demand for this “stale” data. I prefer to call this information “historical” data and there are many reasons (though this would be another topic all by itself) why people like to keep an offline database of historical data.

To say “this sounds like a 3rd party software problem” is in my opinion naïve, and does nothing to address the real issue.

Even just providing the GCXXXX code of archived caches so users can flag their corresponding historical data as being “archived” would go a long way to appeasing many who like to keep this “historical” information.

Edited January 4, 2005 by ClydeE

February 8, 2005

Add me to the list of folks who want the archived caches available as a pocket query search. That would be the best way to keep the GSAK database up to date.

Currently, when a cache becomes archived, there is no way to find that in the GSAK program as new information is added to it.

2.8k · February 8, 2005

Add me to the list of folks who want the archived caches available as a pocket query search. That would be the best way to keep the GSAK database up to date.
Currently, when a cache becomes archived, there is no way to find that in the GSAK program as new information is added to it.

It sure as hell could be a lot easier, but I wouldn't say "no way"

Please see the discussion on ways to get around this problem in gsak, starting here

6.4k · February 8, 2005

I think some people are forgetting why the PQs were offered in the first place. They are intended to give you an easy to use, up to date list of current geocaches for an area. When you go caching the next time, delete the old PQ and use a new one.

When PQs were conceived, there obviously was no such thing as GSAK, and I don't think the intent of them was ever for everyone to maintain a personal database of every cache ever listed. The fact that the PQs don't suite the needs of GSAK is not the fault of GC.com, but perhaps the fault of GSAK; since it encourages you to use the PQs in a way they were not intended to be used.

February 8, 2005

While I certainly see where you are going, Mopar, I must disagree. Your argument is akin to my saying that the GPS system was never intended to be used to hide/find boxes in the woods as part of a game, and therefore you should not do it. While I certainly understand that there was an initial purpose of the PQs, that intended purpose does not specifically discount the possibility that there might be other useful purposes.

That having been said, I have found a different solution to the one mentioned by Clyde in his thread that he linked. The solution I have found is that I have the PQ load into GSAK, and check the user flag when it does, clearing any user flags that were already checked. I then have a filter set to remove any inactive/found caches from the list, and then go through the list to see all the caches that haven't got the user flag checked (which are also within my nearest 500). Any that is not checked, I go take a look at the cache page to get an idea whether or not the cache is disabled/archived. If archived/disabled, I mark it as such in my database, and continue. I have not at this time chosen to removed archived caches from my database, but I may choose to do so at a later time. The main reason I do maintain the database is because of the fact that I can store corrected coordinates in there, and I can also store notes (for instances, on stages/puzzles from puzzle caches). It also allows me to get around the "only 5 logs" limitation of PQs, and instead have, in most cases, a significant database from which I can draw on my PDA. Thus eliminating the problem of there having been updated coords posted by a user that happen to be significantly closer, but because they aren't within the last 5 logs, I can't see them.

1.3k · February 9, 2005

While I certainly see where you are going, Mopar, I must disagree. Your argument is akin to my saying that the GPS system was never intended to be used to hide/find boxes in the woods as part of a game, and therefore you should not do it. While I certainly understand that there was an initial purpose of the PQs, that intended purpose does not specifically discount the possibility that there might be other useful purposes.

That is an excellent point.

While I can't find the exact quote - I recall seeing Jeremy say that he was still surprised by all of unintended ways geocachers use the GC.com website.... or something like that. (I apologise if that's incorrect - I couldn't recall enough to find the quote using the forums search). Just because something wasn't intended doesn't mean it's wrong.

While I don't personally use GSAK, I do have interest in historical caches. I try my best to keep up with all caches that are in my state, archived or not.

I understand why GC.com does what it does in regards to archived caches. I hope the current abilities to find archived caches (looking at user profiles and using the gc.com maps) will remain in place.

It will be nice when some information is included in a "found" PQ for users.

southdeltan

6.4k · February 9, 2005

While I certainly see where you are going, Mopar, I must disagree. Your argument is akin to my saying that the GPS system was never intended to be used to hide/find boxes in the woods as part of a game, and therefore you should not do it. While I certainly understand that there was an initial purpose of the PQs, that intended purpose does not specifically discount the possibility that there might be other useful purposes.

Ah, love these analogies. :blink:

It's not the same as not finding ammo cans because that's not what the system was designed for. It's more like people constantly asking the military to change the way the GPS system works so it works better for geocaching.

There is no deficiency or limitation in the PQs per se, they work exactly as intended, and are virtually perfect as is for the intended purpose. Any perceived deficiency is in using them for something other then intended.

The GPS system is not perfect for geocaching, but that's not what it was designed for, so it's imperfections for finding caches are not deficiencies either.

To stay with the theme for the week:

Starbucks makes a great cup of coffee. Everyone loves it.

Someone figures out Starbucks coffee does a pretty good job of cleaning toilets.

The people using Starbucks coffee as a toilet cleaner would like Starbucks to sell their coffee in a squirt bottle, to make it better for cleaning toilets.

Since Starbucks doesn't sell their coffee as a toilet cleaner, there is no reason for them to market it in squirt bottles. Gosh that was fun!

20.7k · February 9, 2005

Someone should start a thread of geocaching analogies. They have been very fun this week. :blink:

February 9, 2005

Oops let me put this under my non-lurking account.

Edited February 9, 2005 by TheOtherOne

February 9, 2005

Ahh there we go.

To stay with the theme for the week:
Starbucks makes a great cup of coffee. Everyone loves it.

Someone figures out Starbucks coffee does a pretty good job of cleaning toilets.

The people using Starbucks coffee as a toilet cleaner would like Starbucks to sell their coffee in a squirt bottle, to make it better for cleaning toilets.

Since Starbucks doesn't sell their coffee as a toilet cleaner, there is no reason for them to market it in squirt bottles. Gosh that was fun!

Hmmmm .... The way I see that is like this.

Starbucks makes coffee and then some people figure out that not only can you drink it but it also does a good job cleaning toilets.

Starbucks customers suggest maybe Starbucks should think about putting their coffee in squirt bottles. That way it would make it easier for them. Starbucks would make their custoners happy. They would not have to keep coming in using up coffee cups they don't need.

Instead of thinking it was not their original purpose and they had never thought of but it does make sense to a lot of people and go with. Starbucks says no and then just goes on to female dog about all of the toilet cleaning people who are using up all of their cups and making longer lines for everybody.

Oh yea and there is a bunch of people in the Starbucks sitting at the tables that just sit there and moan about the toilet cleaning people. They don't get that some people have figured out a different way to use the coffee. They see no reason why those people just can't be happy to drink the coffee. If they just can't be happy with that they should just go over to Horton's and get their coffee there.

Yea this is fun!

20.7k · February 9, 2005

Of course, Starbucks would have to source, purchase, and warehouse the squirt bottles, but that's ok. If people want their coffee in squirt bottles, Starbucks must provide it. :blink:

February 9, 2005

Of course, Starbucks would have to source, purchase, and warehouse the squirt bottles, but that's ok. If people want their coffee in squirt bottles, Starbucks must provide it.

They are already warehousing the squirt bottles. It does not take any more resources to provide the coffee in this form. No they don't have to do it, but Starbucks should want to try to make their customers happy. But of course Starbucks does have to contend with Hortons, Seattle's Best, Dunkin Donuts, etc. I guess that is where the analogy falls apart.

February 9, 2005

And so, we're now back to the coffee analogy. :mad: The things we come up with...

Anyway, I disagree that the PQs as they are now are not, in some way, deficient. PQs were designed (as I understand it) to allow a user to download the details of caches they wish to seek, in a format which will allow them to easily access those caches on their laptop/PDA/etc. while out in the field. It was designed to allow only 5 of the previous logs, simply because trying to include all the logs becomes prohibitively expensive in terms of both processor time in generating the query, and bandwidth/file size when finally mailing the results. However, therein lies the percieved deficiency. The logs very frequently contain clues that might be useful to have when on the trail. But what happens if the last five logs on the site happen to be some combination of notes posted by the owner reporting that the cache is there and stocked, and DNF notes by users who hadn't been able to locate one stage or another? These logs eliminate all the previous finds from the top 5 logs, and therefore preclude you from seeing the earlier logs. I thank Jeremy and the coders quite a lot for the PQs. My caching experience would be much more difficult without them. However, I disagree that there is no deficiency in the manner in which the PQs were originally laid out.

If there were no deficiency, why would anyone have even taken the time to do something like write a program like GSAK? If there wasn't some reason that Clyde thought the PQs were deficient, he would have had no reason to write that program, and we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

20.7k · February 9, 2005

and here I thought GSAK was written because GPSBabel is hard to use. GSAK has grown and grown to include functions that used to be done by other apps.

I don't think that this is an example of difficiencies as much as it is feature creep at its finest. In fact, that's how I feel about this entire thread. As much as I would have liked to be able to run a PQ on archived caches when I built the database of my finds, I couldn't. Therefore, I had to get the info another way. The PQs were not designed to provide this data. This is not a deficiency, it is just that I wanted the PQs to work outside of their planned usage.

I don't see how this feature would aid most users in actively playing the game. Therefore, I don't think it should be a high priority.

edited to correct a small grammar issue and to improve readability.

Edited February 9, 2005 by sbell111

February 9, 2005

We do not list archived caches. As part of the "found caches" pocket query, when it is complete, will not contain the coordinates (or contain truncated ones) but will contain a copy of your log entry.

So we wouldn't be able to map out all of our finds on a map? Useful, but not as useful as I'd like to see it. Just curious, why not the whole coordinates?

As a sidenote, its not a huge deal. I've already went through all of my finds that are archived, and downloaded the .gpx from the archived cache page, then imported them into GSAK.

--RuffRidr

Edited February 9, 2005 by RuffRidr

20.7k · February 9, 2005

So we wouldn't be able to map out all of our finds on a map? ...

We would, it would just take an extra step. We could dump the file into GSAK and then click on the link to the cache page to get the old coords.

Edited February 9, 2005 by sbell111

New Pocket Query Type

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