Interstate Travel Search

[+Nut N' Honey]

I was wondering if there was a way to run a pocket query or even a regular search using an Interstate HWY

 

i.e. I-45 to find all geocaches say 1 mile either side of the road.

 

That way a family traveling down the HWY could plan lots of stops along the way to GeoCache traveling from one city to another.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Nut-N'-Honey

[+Markwell]

Not yet. See the "Caches along a route" thread pinned at the top of the Geocaching.com forum. I've got some instructions in there (and on this page) to work within the current system but it takes time and effort (and a little $$$).

 

As evidenced in the thread. Jeremy is working on the problem, but there's nothing forthcoming yet.

Edited January 13, 2005 by Markwell

[+gnbrotz]

As long as this has been brought up again:

 

I've got the "caches along a route" thing down, but how about an easy way to grab just the exit waypoints? Thanks to GSAK, this seems to be a bit more efficient way to plan (at least in some cases), but AFAIK it's back to manually creating waypoints on a map of some type to make this work.

[+ZackJones]

gnbrotz: If you have the lat/long for the various exits set up a "Points" filter in GSAK to find caches within the distance specified of each of the lat/long pair you list in the filter.

[robertlipe]

I suspect that what gnbrotz is really asking is "is there a place I can download lists of exits so I don't have to create these stupid things by hand?"

 

I've spent a fair amount of time scrubbing government databases and such and have been unable to find such a thing that's really very usable across a wide area. I've been able to find them for some states, but not the general case. The data is wildly inconsistent when it's available at all. The folks that do have such data available in a usable format have premium prices and impractical licensing requirements.

 

You can kinda sorta get the data from the tiger databases but there's a substantial cost in processing power and manual tweaking required to make it useful. So I have to say that the most practical solution for most people for now really is to build the ones you want manually with your favorite mapping program.

[+The Leprechauns]

Much like the National Map Corps program, I think that all it would take would be 100 or so volunteers to spend a few hours in Mapsource, Mapsend, or the other street mapping program of their choice, in order to develop a database of exit waypoints. The resulting database could be made available for use in third party applications, or even incorporated into whatever on-site solution Jeremy and his crew might be planning.

[+Mopar]

Much like the National Map Corps program, I think that all it would take would be 100 or so volunteers to spend a few hours in Mapsource, Mapsend, or the other street mapping program of their choice, in order to develop a database of exit waypoints. The resulting database could be made available for use in third party applications, or even incorporated into whatever on-site solution Jeremy and his crew might be planning.

I suggested something like that a few months ago, not sure if it was in the forums or in private emails with Robert. I would be more then willing to help compile such a list, and actually have already done just that for a few of the CT interstates.

[+Markwell]

Count me in.

 

I would think they could be categorized by Interstate, State and Exit number. Volunteers would come up with the information after volunteering for a particular road. For example, I'd love to do I-57.

 

I-57, MO, 1A, 36.87175, -89.53743

I-57, MO, 1A, 36.87551, -89.52772

I-57, MO, 4, 36.90067, -89.45617

 

The only thing I'd suggest is that the people get all of their information from the same source like S&T2005 or Mapsource. That way if there's an error, ALL of the data should be off (and we can blame one source), or if there are corrections to be made we can tell people that this is where they need to double check stuff.

[robertlipe]

I'd strongly considered that idea. Rather than dumping hundreds more hours into chasing "canned" solutions, defer it to humans. I guess if I trusted humans more to not make dogmeat out of such a project, I'd be more excited about it.

 

I'm also not entirely sure that compiling one from S&T or Mapsource or Mapsend for redistribution is kosher. You get mired in that whole licensing thing.

 

Its probably a 50-70 hour project to put together a rough prototype of a database that could be publicly distributed that way. Would anyone like to underbid that?

[+ZackJones]

I'll help as well. If we can agree on a schema and get data in Excel spreadsheets I could suck it all into a DB easily enough. I could also put together a simple web page that captured the data directly into a DB.

 

In addition to what Markwell proposes I suggest we collect the source for data (mappoint, S&T, etc)

 

I can work on GA.

 

Robert, tell me what all you envinsioned for the public DB and I'll let you know if I can under bid you or not

[+The Leprechauns]

Robert, could you further explain your concern about compiling the information from Mapsource, etc., as a possible licensing violation? I don't see how hovering my mouse pointer over an exit, marking a waypoint and writing down the coordinates for contribution to a database wouldn't be a permissible use of the software.

 

I am not asking this to be critical; rather, it is an area where I lack your technical expertise. It would be important for such a large project to be done totally legit.

[+Moose Mob]

Should we include non-interstate highways? Some highways have exits, others have access points, some you can just drive off the road.

 

Nevada's Highway 50 comes to mind.

[+ibycus]

Robert, could you further explain your concern about compiling the information from Mapsource, etc., as a possible licensing violation? I don't see how hovering my mouse pointer over an exit, marking a waypoint and writing down the coordinates for contribution to a database wouldn't be a permissible use of the software.

 

I am not asking this to be critical; rather, it is an area where I lack your technical expertise. It would be important for such a large project to be done totally legit.

I have the same concerns about licensing. Your best bet is to ask them, and get it in writing. Or have someone fluent in legalese to go over the license agreement and see if there is anything that *might* cover it. My guess it would come up in redistributing derivative works.

In case any other canadians are reading this thread, I'd like to point out, that all roads and road intersections for all of Canada can be downloaded from http://www.geobase.ca with an EXTREMLY liberal license agreement (as far as I can tell you can do what ever the heck you like with the data (even resell it) as long as you acknowledge the source).

[robertlipe]

Robert, could you further explain your concern about compiling the information from Mapsource, etc., as a possible licensing violation? I don't see how hovering my mouse pointer over an exit, marking a waypoint and writing down the coordinates for contribution to a database wouldn't be a permissible use of the software.

 

I am not asking this to be critical; rather, it is an area where I lack your technical expertise. It would be important for such a large project to be done totally legit.

I don't have time to open any of the products and cite their licensing terms, but I'd bet they include the standard legal gibberish about creating derivtative works, data licensed for exclusive use of licensee (thus prohibiting redistribution) and so on. I don't *know* that it's prohibited, but I know that there's enough of a cloud hanging over thtat approach that I'd want to study very well before taunting the likes of Navteq's legal department.

 

If you're OK with you getting the data from a map program by overing over it, would you be as OK with me writing a program that ripped open the database used by that map program?

Matters of scale aside, is it really different? Probably not. If you took a magic marker and tracing paper and copied the maps and put them on the 'net for others to use, is that really much different than copying their intersection database? Probably not.

 

Dammit jim, I'm a programmer not a lawyer...

[+webscouter.]

I'd be willing to mark a waypoint as I drive past it for the territory that I cover. Would I need to stop at each exit? Or for the use we want is driving by close enough. (If you are going to get all caches within a mile how accurate do you need the points to be.

 

Or would a trac from the GPS be useful? I bet within a month I could have all the major Highways around Kansas City in a track.

[robertlipe]

Robert, tell me what all you envinsioned for the public DB and I'll let you know if I can under bid you or not

state (from fips code)

(something for international use; don't know what)

type (interchange, rest area)

identifier (exit number, rest area name)

parent identifier(s) (road name)

lat, lon

sequence number.

 

Why a sequence number? Because routes are _ordered_ lists and you really wan to be able to hock up something you can feed to GPSBabel's arc filter or pump into a mapsource route. If you'll think about it for a moment (and if you live in an area where roads aren't straight, this will be more obvous) a route from A->B->C->D is very different than A->C->B->D. In cases where routes are shared, sequencing by exit number isn't enough since they'll jump forward and backward.

 

Identifiers are problems when they're generated by humans. "I-57" vs "Interstate 57" is just

the start of it. Some interstates change names in the middle and then change back. Some merge together. Taking Markwell's example, IIRC I57 and I64 share several miles along the Mt. Vernon area So you call that I-57 or I-64 or both? A traveller going from St. Louis to Louisville (think "east/west") is probably not even aware of this kink, so they'd want to be able to pick "i-64 in IL" and include that hunk.

 

Then you have circular routes (think bypasses) and cases where roads leave a state and then come back. We'd need some clever way to hook those back up without making straight connecting lines where none are intended. I-24/I-59 around Chattanooga dips down into GA and then back into TN. I don't know what the exit numbers do in that case.

 

There's also a rquired audit trail that signs off that the data was obtained in some way that's it's legal to redistribute. If you give me the five nearest your house, you probably snapped the coords while driving by. If you give me the 50, 000 in a state halfway across the ountry, I have to wonder if you pillaged some data source that may or may not be fair game. And when the lawyers bust down MY door, I want YOUR butt to be the one on the cross.

 

In case it's not clear, this is not "top of my head" stuff - I've been kicking this around for a while. :-) When you start thinking about solving this well, it becomes rather thorny. Maybe I"m overcomplicating it or not seeing the way to simplify this.

[+Nut N' Honey]

WOW!!!!

 

Talk about getting a response to my question.

I see this has been pretty well thought out by several of you.

If you need a volunteer to help with the Texas Interstates, I'd be happy to do them.

I love a good challenge.

I'll also be discussing this subject with the GeoCachers manning the Booth at the Dallas EXPO this weekend.

 

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

 

Nut-N'Honey

[+gnbrotz]

I suspect that what gnbrotz is really asking is "is there a place I can download lists of exits so I don't have to create these stupid things by hand?"

This was indeed the direction I was headed with my post. I see it has sparked a lively discussion. I'd be willing to help out with PA and MD, but would definitely need some direction from the more technical here when it comes to what additional info/formatting would be required.

[+gnbrotz]

*deleted duplicate post due to server hiccup.

Edited January 14, 2005 by gnbrotz

[+Sputnik 57]

WOW!!!!

 

If you need a volunteer to help with the Texas Interstates, I'd be happy to do them.

I love a good challenge.

I'll also be discussing this subject with the GeoCachers manning the Booth at the Dallas EXPO this weekend.

 

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

 

Nut-N'Honey

As I recall, the last mile marker on I-10 east near the Texas Louisiana border is number 830 or so (someone will likely correct me). There isn't an exit every mile, but there are ton of them. I don't want to discourage anyone, but this is a very ambitious project.

 

Garmin clearly has the data, since exits are POIs in their software, but obviously they spent some buck to get them, and aren't willing to give that up in a user-friendly format.

[+gnbrotz]

I've been able to get my hands on an Excel file for PA that has lat/lon for every mile marker on every interstate except the turnpike. While this is really much more data than I was looking for, long term it may be put to good use. For the question at hand, the data will still need to be reduced a bit. Since our exits are numbered by mile marker, it should be easy, albeit time-intensive to do. I still think it will be less work than starting from scratch with nothing.

 

I would like to thank robertlipe for his assistance in converting the original file into .gpx format.

 

While I have my own plans for this data, it is public information, so I'd be glad to share either file (.xls or .gpx) with anyone who would like it. And, if anyone is manually working on PA (I did just briefly), I might suggest you focus your efforts on the turnpike. Also, if you want to contact me, we might coordinate our efforts so we don't both cover the same sections.