Violation Of Cache Listing Guidelines

2.2k · February 18, 2005

Heres the relevent snippet from cache posting guidlines involving event caches:

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers.

Earlier this event was given the green light by Jeremy himself in violation of his own posting guidelines.

Please do not turn this into a flame war. Keep the discussion civil and on topic please.

Edited February 18, 2005 by WH

5.3k · February 18, 2005

This sounds like a perfect example of why they are guidelines and not rules

2.2k · February 18, 2005

Heres the relevent snippet from cache posting guidlines involving event caches:

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers.

Earlier this event was given the green light by Jeremy himself in violation of his own posting guidelines.

Please do not turn this into a flame war. Keep the discussion civil and on topic please.

What's your point?

3.9k · February 18, 2005

The approver posted a note explaining the exception. I'm satisfied. Look for The "GeoGuys ONLY Weekend Get-A-Way" coming soon. Hm... That sounds a little funny when you say that way. I'm not sharing a tent with anyone.

5k · February 18, 2005

I've got no problem with this sort of thing.

I recall back in the day when I lived in MN, some guy sued a bar because women got beer for $1.00 or something during ladies night, but there was no men's equivalent. Well.. the thing is, ladies night is mens night. If all they guy was going for was $1.00 beer, then he has other things to worry about.

Since ladies night was effectively outlawed, bars started having "skirt night." I guess some good did come out of the situation.

In fact, I might make a "skirt only" event... hmmm.

Jamie

February 18, 2005

I see no harm in it.

maybe I can convince the old lady to go have fun. I could finally have some peace and quiet around here.

Joe Smith

P.S. Don't tell her I called her "the old lady" she'll kill me.

or worse, cut me off

February 18, 2005

For goodness sake.

Grow up!

9.4k · February 18, 2005

Earlier this event was given the green light by Jeremy himself in violation of his own posting guidelines.

I took a bribe too.

2.1k · February 18, 2005

Sounds fine to me, good for them.

Have fun ladies, you deserve it!

9.4k · February 18, 2005

For the record, I am announcing that I am wholeheartedly supporting a double standard for the allowance of a women's caching weekend as an event cache. It is an exception to the guidelines in my book and I have trouble finding any fault in the decision. If you have an issue with it, talk to the hand sister

1.2k · February 18, 2005

......

Dang, where's that cache event again? I gotta get me a plane ticket!

(rats... gotta win the lottery first...)

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sparrowhawk

2.2k · February 18, 2005

For the record, I am announcing that I am wholeheartedly supporting a double standard for the allowance of a women's caching weekend as an event cache. It is an exception to the guidelines in my book and I have trouble finding any fault in the decision. If you have an issue with it, talk to the hand sister

Let take a few extreme cases.

Lets say someone wanted to list one of the following types of caches:

Whites Only

Christians Only

Heterosexual Only

Noone over 50

Noone under 50

friends only

Would you be fair and allow one of these types? If so, Im having a few select caching friends over for dinner in a couple weeks and Ill get to work on the event listing.

Edited February 18, 2005 by WH

22k · February 18, 2005

I don't care if it's a kilt event, I still aint going.

9.4k · February 18, 2005

Let take a few extreme cases.

Ah. Edited this as I was warned by CO Admin. Suffice it to say that extreme cases are not this case and my common sense ruled my decision that it is ok to have a women's event weekend. Sometimes guidelines are guidelines for a reason.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Jeremy

1.2k · February 18, 2005

Watch out Jeremy, they're everywhere.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sparrowhawk

2.2k · February 18, 2005

May I list my dinner party for a few select caching friends as an event?

9.4k · February 18, 2005

May I list my dinner party for a few select caching friends as an event?

Nope.

1.2k · February 18, 2005

Case in point.

Besides... there are public places and events which specifically exclude kids...

...oh yeah... cellphone users...

...and SMOKERS!! Don't forget the horrible discrimination against smokers out there! Terrible, just terrible.

...Can I have a no kids, no cellphone users, no smokers event cach... never mind.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sparrowhawk

1.5k · February 18, 2005

May I list my dinner party for a few select caching friends as an event?

Single dad, eh? Perhaps you should use your ninja skills and disguise yourself as a woman, infiltrate the ladies caching event, and scout out a suitable replacement wife.

Then you can post an event cache where only you and her are invited, and call it "The Old Switcheroo", during which you reveal that you aren't actually a woman at all.

Brilliant! :monocle:

Edited February 18, 2005 by Mr. Snazz

2.3k · February 18, 2005

They better hope Criminal doesn't catch wind of this event.

I hear he likes girls.

Alot.

This may just put him over the edge......

1.2k · February 18, 2005

Perhaps you should use your ninja skills and disguise yourself as a woman, infiltrate the ladies caching event, and scout out a suitable replacement wife.

Mr. Snazz... why do you DO that to me? I SO want to make a certain clever snarky remark right now which would surely get me a warning... ahhh... the torture... the temptation is... ARRRRGGGH!!

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sparrowhawk

2.2k · February 18, 2005

Nah, but I think an informal male caching trip which by some random chance happens to fall on the same dates and place as the womens event would be fun.

3k · February 18, 2005

Please do not turn this into a flame war.

Sure seems to me like that's what you're trying to start. I think it's time to let it go.

February 18, 2005

Please do not turn this into a flame war.

Sure seems to me like that's what you're trying to start. I think it's time to let it go.

Here, Here!

Besides... there are public places and events which specifically exclude kids...

...oh yeah... cellphone users...

...and SMOKERS!! Don't forget the horrible discrimination against smokers out there! Terrible, just terrible.

...Can I have a no kids, no cellphone users, no smokers event cach... never mind

I'll go, I'll go!!

Edited February 18, 2005 by Crusso

2.3k · February 18, 2005

Nah, but I think an informal male caching trip which by some random chance happens to fall on the same dates and place as the womens event would be fun.

Ok the question has been asked and answered.

It was allowed.

Lets not push this by being silly

If you have an event you think might need an exception send it to Contact@geocaching.com. Not in the forums.

Edited February 18, 2005 by CO Admin

2.2k · February 18, 2005

Not an event. As previously stated, I would be just as opposed to a male only event as a female only event. This would be an informal non-event get together.

7.3k · February 18, 2005

I don't care if it's a kilt event, I still aint going.

Geocaching in a kilt:

1.5k · February 18, 2005

Not an event. As previously stated, I would be just as opposed to a male only event as a female only event. This would be an informal non-event get together.

I heard that some guys get together on the weekends for night caching at local highway rest stops. Oh, its a scene, yeah!

22k · February 18, 2005

I don't care if it's a kilt event, I still aint going.

Geocaching in a kilt:

Well, still, I wouldn't go but I doubt someone in a kilt (like that guy) would be turned away.

So really it's open to all.

4.2k · February 18, 2005

Ok, cache listed with both an explanation on the cache page as well as a response from Jeremy here.

Not even a question in the OP - so why keep this one open?

2.1k · February 18, 2005

so female-only events apply for permission from TPTB through the forums, and all other exceptions should apply through Contact@geocaching.com...

at any rate, it's done...I hope the ladies have fun...I like events, I like them a lot...whoever comes

the new features are great and the new and improved guidelines were a fun read

nfa-jamie

2.2k · February 18, 2005

Not even a question in the OP - so why keep this one open?

Your right. The only real reason Jeremy could offer for this was basically because he said so.

Even though this is his site and all of us have the choice of either playing by his rules or going elsewhere, doesnt make him right. 99% of the time I find Jeremy and the rest of the approving team to be very even handed.

This one case shows that maybe my perception of Jeremy was incorrect.

Closing topic.

9.4k · February 18, 2005

No. I don't think so. Since the OP was no attacks and you decided to attack me, I'd like to respond.

This is a male dominated activity and it behooves us to make this game accessible to folks who might otherwise not wish to go out geocaching. Having a women only event is the best way to introduce women to the activity. I spoke to actual women to decide whether this is an important issue for them and decided that it is an exception to the guidelines.

It makes me wonder why this is such a difficult issue for you. There are guidelines and there are guidelines. Fortunately they are not rules so occasionally we can think outside the box and, perhaps, consider the situation before making a judgement.

I understand in the forums there's a certain amount of intellectual debate that goes on just to make some subtle point, but there's a certain point when you just have to let your feet touch the ground.

5.3k · February 18, 2005

No. I don't think so. Since the OP was no attacks and you decided to attack me, I'd like to respond.

This is a male dominated activity and it behooves us to make this game accessible to folks who might otherwise not wish to go out geocaching. Having a women only event is the best way to introduce women to the activity. I spoke to actual women to decide whether this is an important issue for them and decided that it is an exception to the guidelines.

It makes me wonder why this is such a difficult issue for you. There are guidelines and there are guidelines. Fortunately they are not rules so occasionally we can think outside the box and, perhaps, consider the situation before making a judgement.

I understand in the forums there's a certain amount of intellectual debate that goes on just to make some subtle point, but there's a certain point when you just have to let your feet touch the ground.

You go girl!!

Um...I mean...yeah!

3.9k · February 18, 2005

This one case shows that maybe my perception of Jeremy was incorrect.

Closing topic.

Thanks for opening this back up Jeremy.

No...your perception was quite correct. They are very even handed. This isn't the first time they have made an exception, and I hope it won't be the last.

El Diablo

24.7k · February 18, 2005

Given I thought the "Open to all" was already too much given that now I have to have the fire marshal give my house a capacity rating to limit attendees, I don't have an issue with the decsion. It falls on my side of the fence.

38.2k · February 18, 2005

Noone over 50

What's a noone?

3.9k · February 18, 2005

Noone over 50

What's a noone?

It's a little known word with the same meaning as "No one" I'm surprised that you didn't know that Brian.

El Diablo

2.2k · February 18, 2005

a singer from herman and the hermits?

let the gals have their fun. sheesh!

7.3k · February 18, 2005

I don't care if it's a kilt event, I still aint going.

Geocaching in a kilt:

Well, still, I wouldn't go but I doubt someone in a kilt (like that guy) would be turned away.

So really it's open to all.

Our family had just finished with a Highland Games, and did this cache in Seattle afterwards. My husband has a background in that part of Britain.

Men look cool in kilts, especially my husband.

OT:

Someday when you want an exception, you'll be glad that TPTB sometimes grant them.

2.3k · February 18, 2005

Note: Exceptions to the following guidelines may occasionally be made depending on the novel nature and merits of a cache. If you have a cache idea you believe is novel, contact Geocaching.com before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site.

The guidelines have this nice little note in them for a reason. They are guidelines not rules. Lets not get mired down in whether they asked first or not, I'm not sure. My point is that Groundspeak did what they say they will do and that is granted an exception. An exception is NOT a new guideline so don't expect EVERY different event to be approved. the guidelines also say:

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be “grandfathered” and allowed to stand as is.

Like I always say, "No good deed goes unpunished"

Edited February 18, 2005 by CO Admin

7.3k · February 18, 2005

Like I always say, "No good deed goes unpunished"

:laughing:

Good deeds are...good.

2.3k · February 18, 2005

Like I always say, "No good deed goes unpunished"

Good deeds are...good.

Thank you

3.8k · February 18, 2005

...This is a male dominated activity and it behooves us to make this game accessible to folks who might otherwise not wish to go out geocaching. Having a women only event is the best way to introduce women to the activity...

I agree. Maybe not the best way, but a good way. In the case of women, I'd always be open to discussion (doing whatever they want).

Besides, I like the idea of an exclusively women event.

We need more women geocachers.

Seriously. :laughing:

38.2k · February 18, 2005

I have no problem with women only (or men only) events per se, but it is in direct violation of the guidelines.

There have been many times that TBTB have held these guidlines up to everyones face to support an unpopular decision (the recent tsunami controversy comes to mind). An exception should be granted only under exceptional conditions. If the tsunami disaster wasn't an exceptional condition a group of women getting together to hunt geocaches certainly isn't.

Edited February 18, 2005 by briansnat

2.7k · February 18, 2005

I spoke to actual women

Really? What is it like? I hear it's pretty cool!

<-very sad in-duh-vidual

On topic, I can see where this *IS* a violation of the guidelines, but as Jeremy posted earler, the concept is to get people together who might not go caching - and bring their friends. I mean, if *I* were a woman (and I'm not) I'd certainly be a little dubious attending any geocache event that I might show up at... Let them have their fun, expand the hobby participation etc. That is totally different from the tsunami scenario because that situation did not encourage NEW players to come into the game...

Just my $.02

24.7k · February 18, 2005

...On topic, I can see where this *IS* a violation of the guidelines, ...

It's fairly cut and dry as a violation. So much so they should change the guidelines to match what is obviosly their intent.

2.7k · February 18, 2005

Does disparity rhyme with disfunction.

I think in all fairness we should have a guys only Cache Event on Mothers Day. Then all the guys can go drink beer and leave the women home on Fathers Day.

Maybe all the guys should just post a we will attend on this disfunctional cache.

February 18, 2005

When the women of Ohio got together last fall (November 6th, I think) we all agreed (including the volunteer reviewer) that making it an official event was against the grain at the time, so it was just publicized as much as we could. I think all parties wished we could have done otherwise, but there are bonuses to having a reviewer who is strictly legalistic regarding the guidelines and this wasn't one of those bonuses. However, the Ohio guys had the opportunity to clear out by heading up to MI and spending quality time with Victorymike, Trippy, SixTen and the gang. All in all, it was a great weekend for all concerned. No guys in the way making the women folk hurry up or do the long hiking multis. No wives and girlfriends to hold the guys back from drinking a case of high life and trudging from sunup to well after dark.

Did I mention the new Ohio Geocaching Logos that came out of it? Great non-events that may remain non-events next year to maintain tradition. On the other hand, I think we like having precedent for the women to list their event. The guys will travel regardless.

Good call, Jeremy. If you make it to the GeoBash, you've got a cooler at my site with your name on it.

22k · February 18, 2005

Noone over 50

What's a noone?

Wasn't that the main kid in CaddyShack? He' be over 50 by now wouldn't he?

Violation Of Cache Listing Guidelines

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