StanB Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'm new and this may be a dumb question, but... I see things on eBay that resemble potentially dangerous devices which are designed to disguise caches. For example electrical junction boxes and outlets. I wouldn't remove the cover of an electrical device to look for a cache, so my question is this: Are these acceptable and are people using them for hiding places? If so I'd rather miss a cache than take a chance I'd found a live electrical device by mistake. Thanks, Stan. Quote Link to comment
+wcgreen Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I've seen these in places with no possibility of electrical service (i.e. 'way, 'way out in the woods). Quote Link to comment
+5 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 That sounds like a really bad idea. Quote Link to comment
dead_white_man Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I have not seen outlet boxes or junction boxes used around here. Switch boxes and small breaker boxes are sometimes used quite well. Because you don't have to take them apart but merely open them, they are quite safe. Quote Link to comment
+BigHank Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 To me it wouldn't be worth it to take apart or take the cover off of anything that could be 'live' electrically. It's took me a few years and a couple of times getting "zapped" to learn to respect electricity, but I don't do any electrical work around the house without the power being off and personally checking to make sure it is off. So I wouldn't trust taking the cover off or taking apart anything that I didn't personally know had no power going to it. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The velcro holding the cover shut is a good hint that maybe it's a cache. It's the setting and not so much the device. If you put it in the right spot a cacher will spot in and a muggle wont. Quote Link to comment
+zcubed Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I have already encountered several of these and its pointed out in the cache description what it is or obvious that it isn't live once you see it. Quote Link to comment
+GeoSharks Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) I've seen an outlet box once. Attached to a light pole using a stronge magnet, in the middle of a very busy parking lot. Painted the same color as the pole. Great hide. Edited February 19, 2005 by GeoSharks Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Proper marking is the key: The sticker reads: United States Geocache Site Logging Station Do Not Disturb Quote Link to comment
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 (edited) On these types of caches, you do not have to "open" them in the same fashion that any live box would open, the ones I've seen were attached by magnet, and were not screwed shut. I like that one pictured. Edited February 19, 2005 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 It's only dangerous if it ends up being your last Geocaching adventure. Quote Link to comment
+zcubed Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Here are two caches using electrical boxes: M B-80 SPS 5-35 Once you are standing in front and see the cache name it is very clear that this is a cache. WX cache The description states that it is a electrical box and when you finally find it you know it isn't live. I think these are fine as caches and I had fun searching out WX above. Looking at the picture that Criminal posted it is very clear that this won't be your last cache. Quote Link to comment
+BigHank Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Marked and obvious (to a 'cacher) such as in the cited examples is a good idea...as I said, I wouldn't open one or take one apart that I didn't personally know was live, and these I would feel safe with. Quote Link to comment
+fratermus Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I'm new and this may be a dumb question, but... I see things on eBay that resemble potentially dangerous devices which are designed to disguise caches. For example electrical junction boxes and outlets. I saw them, too, and hoped no one was using them. I don't like the idea at all. Quote Link to comment
+Clan X-Man Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Consider the possibility of monetary damage. How much would it cost to confuse an electrician and a helper for 30 minutes? But are these being placed with the owner of the properties permission? Then it wouldn't cost anything for an electrician and helper. Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Consider the possibility of monetary damage. How much would it cost to confuse an electrician and a helper for 30 minutes? That's got to be the <self-moderated> reason I've ever heard! If an "electrician" were to open the container he'd know instantly it's not the one he's looking for. 10 seconds, tops. Quote Link to comment
+Escapades Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I'm a electrician and I think most electricians would be able to tell right away it is not a real electrical device, if not its time for a new career(LOL) Maybe it would just get us another geocacher. Mike Quote Link to comment
+Pork King Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I've seen these in places with no possibility of electrical service (i.e. 'way, 'way out in the woods). I was out caching today and noticed a Fiber Optics junction box 'way out in the woods'. where no junction box had any business being. This was a real one, too. I think the idea is terrible. I don't even like opening those water faucet doors on the sides of buildings to get to a cache. What good can come of a headline such as... "Local 'treasure hunter' knocks out half of city's phones/power looking for tupperware" Quote Link to comment
+GixxerUT Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 On these types of caches, you do not have to "open" them in the same fashion that any live box would open, the ones I've seen were attached by magnet, and were not screwed shut. I like that one pictured. and you assume that because a person geocaches, they also automatically know the differences in electrical boxes???? people that place caches should have the insight to see the perspectives of ALL persons out looking, NOT just their own Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 ...people that place caches should have the insight to see the perspectives of ALL persons out looking, NOT just their own How could I possibly imagine all the dumb a** things people could do at my cache? Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 How could I possibly imagine all the dumb a** things people could do at my cache? Exactly. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.......... Quote Link to comment
+Team Tecmage Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Criminal did it right. There are some clues to his placement that are a dead giveaway- if you look carefully. Quote Link to comment
+rover-r-us Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Proper marking is the key: The sticker reads: United States Geocache Site Logging Station Do Not Disturb i like this one. Quote Link to comment
+Runaround Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Nearly every one that I've seen has been marked in some way to make it obvious it was a cache and wasn't just another electrical box. Even the one that wasn't was so obvious that I wasn't worried. There's something about a box attached to a telephone pole with no wires or conduit leading from it that tips you off. Cache placement is key. Just don't put it somewhere where someone can get hurt, i.e. bolted a live electrical box. Quote Link to comment
+BigWhiteTruck Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Everyone who is against this idea seems to think that taking the cover off an electircal box lets the electricity come flying out to kill or maim whoever is in it's way. In actuality, i think most cachers who opened up the wrong box would probably stare at the jumble of wires and wire nuts inside for no more than a few seconds before deciding that this particular box is probably not a cache. Quote Link to comment
+GixxerUT Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Any facsimile of an object that could be dangerous to tamper with, should NOT be for geocaching, IMHO. To me this seems like opening a door for a bad trend. Quote Link to comment
+Mudinyeri Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 So, this wouldn't be a good geocache container? Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I've seen these in places with no possibility of electrical service (i.e. 'way, 'way out in the woods). yep, depends where they're at. I've seen one electric box/conducit. It was 'attached' (really just sitting next to it) to an unlighted sign, so you look at it and didn't think about it, then after a while I realized that there shouldn't be electrical going to that sign !!!... Very fun cache. Quote Link to comment
vagabond Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Maybe it all boils down to caching experience, just use a little common sense Quote Link to comment
+Team Wampus Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 So, this wouldn't be a good geocache container? Only if you have to pull the pin to open it! Quote Link to comment
Toron Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Any facsimile of an object that could be dangerous to tamper with, should NOT be for geocaching, IMHO.To me this seems like opening a door for a bad trend. You mean like an ammo box? Personally, I would much rather open a real electrical box than an old ammo can with aged powder in the deteriorating shells. I do see your point, to a point. I don't think a cache hider should place a cache that puts a cacher in unreasonable danger, but I think absolute guidelines on how that is manifested would be next to impossible to establish. There has to be a common sense factor. The clear labeling on the caches described thus far seem to address the issue. I have an electrical box (the ones that stick out of the ground) that I am planning on using for a cache. I will place an official looking label (like "United States Geocache Logging Station) that will not be understood by Joe Blow, but which should be very clear to a geocacher. Without describing the container, I will mention in the cache page that the container is clearly labeled. My.02 Quote Link to comment
Voncachstein Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 There is a cache in my area that is an electrical box with a tube wire cover running down into the ground. You can tell its that cache because its attatched to a wooden sign and there are no lights in the area. Like someone said before, setting is key. Quote Link to comment
Shoobie & the Sand Crabs Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 As long as they are well marked for a geocacher then it is a good idea Quote Link to comment
Shoobie & the Sand Crabs Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 So, this wouldn't be a good geocache container? Why won't this cache o... !BOOM! Quote Link to comment
+Mudinyeri Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Glad at least a couple people "get" my sense of humor. I have to say X2 on the ammo box as a potentially dangerous container. Let's see, if I didn't know cachers used ammo boxes, would I rather open an unmarked ammo box laying in some scrub brush in the middle of a city park or an electrical box? (Thinks for about .5 seconds ...) Can you say electrical box? You can't get into trouble with an open electrical box unless you ground yourself while holding a positively charged wire! Who knows what could happen when you yank open an unmarked ammo box? Quote Link to comment
+GixxerUT Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 my point; geocachers have traditionally looked for ammo cans as cache containers, right? is it a good idea for geocachers to start becoming accostumed to looking in electrical boxes, light switches, cable boxes, telephone boxes, etc, etc? sure, people are marking these "new" trendsets as geocaches...but how soon before someone thinks it's cute or clever to NOT mark, and then THAT becomes the new trend....and then seekers that have become traditioned to looking in these "new" kinds of containers just start checking those containers at caches that aren't in just two short months, I have learned (been taught) to look inside fence posts....... no problem do we want to be taught to look inside places that maybe we shouldn't? am I trying TOO hard to foresee problems? (maybe I am TOO old and worrysome) Quote Link to comment
+sbukosky Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 am I trying TOO hard to foresee problems? (maybe I am TOO old and worrysome) Not if you're still knee draggin on that Suzook. It seems pretty clear that the coordinates should take one to a location where the danger of mistaking a live junction box versus a dummy cache box should be a problem. If not, I would hope that the finders have the good sense to post the potential danger in their log and that the approver or local geocaching club would contend with it should the cache owner not. Quote Link to comment
+Crystal Sound Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I know i'm stating the obvious, but here it goes.... No matter if it's an ammo box, tupperware, false electrical box, or whatever... It all comes down to PROPER LABELING as a geocache..... Quote Link to comment
+Wyoming Travelers Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 They are great. If you are uncomfortable opening the container simply log a dnf. There was a micro like that I came back during the winter to avoid the snakes that were seemingly guarding it. Quote Link to comment
+ChicagoCanineCrew Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I'd definitely be concerned about utility boxes/posts/similar being used as cache containers because real ones have been known to malfunction, causing there to be live electricity: http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/Sa...er~20041221.php and: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_86083...u=news.quirkies Quote Link to comment
+DaveA Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I know i'm stating the obvious, but here it goes.... No matter if it's an ammo box, tupperware, false electrical box, or whatever... It all comes down to PROPER LABELING as a geocache..... Well, first I could care less if people use fake whatever containers for a cache container because I view social darwinism as a good thing in the long run. However, if we are going to be safety oriented then labelling the cache doesn't really make any difference. Someone hides a cache in a fake electrical box and labels it in an obvious manner. Someone else hides a cache near a real electrical box. The cacher who just found the first cache is now seeking the second cache. Think they will examine that live electical box? Again, I personally could care less, but for those who want a safety oriented reason to not do it even if it is well labeled, there it is. Quote Link to comment
+Polgara Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) I hate electrical box caches. People don't belong pawing around electrical boxes, I don't care how clearly labeled the cache is. I work with blood products everday, they're clearly labeled too, but that label does not in any way increase the safety factor of the contents. A label, on a cache, at an electrical box isn't going to make an electrical shock any less damaging. Not to mention, most people would have both hands on the electrical box when looking for the cache, so if they were to get shocked, they'd complete the circuit and get stuck to the box, while getting their brain fried. Edited February 23, 2005 by Polgara Quote Link to comment
StanB Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 When I asked my original question I didn't expect it would get this much attention! Many good opinions, both pro and con, and here's my $.02. Safety is an important consideration, and think of the legal consequences if someone gets injured on public property. With so many people suing for personal injury these days it's possible that someone getting seriously hurt poking into what they think is a cache might turn around and sue everyone involved. This means the person(s) hiding the cache, the operator(s) of this web site for listing it, and the town or state that owns the property where it was located. All could be named in a lawsuit, so why take a chance..... Stan PS. I like the idea of Tupperware, stumps and old (marked) ammo boxes. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Can't remember where I read it, but I loved the saying, " I'm not saying we actually kill off all the idiots, just remove the warning labels and let the problem take care of itself. " Its a shame common sense has become so lost in our society. Insurance rates wouldn't be so sky high if a judge would say, "counsellor, your client is obviously a moron. Tell him to stay home in front of his TV watching Jerry Springer. " I keep waiting to find out that someone wants reperations because their ancestors were killed while trying to cross the plains in a conestoga wagon. If you aren't bright enough to stay back from the edge of the cliff, don't go hiking. I'm sick of my world being "sanitized" so the next broken nail doesn't result in another wealthy lawyer. Oh yea, and before any lawyers start whining about the useful service they extend, I'm not saying you don't have a purpose. Some people just need to hear "it was your own in-attention or stupidity that got you hurt." Sorry all, rough night at work, and I'm blowing off steam I guess. Quote Link to comment
+GixxerUT Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 " I'm not saying we actually kill off all the idiots, just remove the warning labels and let the problem take care of itself. " Its a shame common sense has become so lost in our society. it might be comparing apples and oranges...... I agree that people should be allowed to be stupid, and to get hurt doing whatever they want. People can go rockclimbing, basejumping, bungeejumping, whitewater rafting, Bullet Biking, etc. and take the risks and dangers of their own free choice. But is Geocaching meant to be a sport where risks are to be taken beyond the inherant risks involved in hiking and bushwhacking to places that are already reflected in the ratings of the cache? i.e. when I see a cache listing with 4s and 5s, I know it's gonna be harder and riskier than the 1s and 2s to find. Isn't this a family sport, that is in some ways geared towards the lowest common denominator? Why throw in other unnecessary risk factors to the game, when it seems to have enough spark and interest in it's traditional form? Quote Link to comment
+AtoZ Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Can't remember where I read it, but I loved the saying, " I'm not saying we actually kill off all the idiots, just remove the warning labels and let the problem take care of itself. " Its a shame common sense has become so lost in our society. There is NO such thing as COMMON SENSE. What I know is because of the envrionment I have grown up in what you know and take for granted is because of the environment you have grown up in. There is no instinctive knowledge that sticking a screwdriver in a light socket is BAD, I'll refrain from any comments here. No we all need to be taugth what is approperate and can be hazardous or dagnerous. I guess it is a pet peve to make referance to common sense being ksome inate knowledge we should all know. The reall issue is that people FAIL to find out if there is a hazard involved in any situation they get involved in. cheers Quote Link to comment
Whitejacket Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 " I'm not saying we actually kill off all the idiots, just remove the warning labels and let the problem take care of itself. " Its a shame common sense has become so lost in our society. Insurance rates wouldn't be so sky high if a judge would say, "counsellor, your client is obviously a moron. Tell him to stay home in front of his TV watching Jerry Springer. " I keep waiting to find out that someone wants reperations because their ancestors were killed while trying to cross the plains in a conestoga wagon. If you aren't bright enough to stay back from the edge of the cliff, don't go hiking. I'm sick of my world being "sanitized" so the next broken nail doesn't result in another wealthy lawyer. Oh yea, and before any lawyers start whining about the useful service they extend, I'm not saying you don't have a purpose. Some people just need to hear "it was your own in-attention or stupidity that got you hurt." Ditto to all of the above Quote Link to comment
HIPS-meister Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 A clever cache that is "hidden in plain sight" is something that simply tries not to attract your first-glance. When the viewer's attention is finally focused on the thing ... ... there should be something which "gives it away." The very best caches (imho) are the ones that "upon first glance are totally plausible, but upon closer inspection are totally wrong." For example, a blank electrical switch plate, held on by magnets. A fake birdhouse. A fake drain-tube. A fake rock. I, too, would be very uncomfortable opening or fooling with an electrical box. But if I saw the geocaching logo faintly scratched into the paint, or something like that, I would know that "I've been had." You need to always think your ideas through carefully -- in the case of an electrical-box it might mean placing the cache far away from where any live electricity could possibly be, so that a person who's skittish might not find your cache, but someone who's bold also cannot actually get hurt. Quote Link to comment
+mortaine Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Hmm.... where I live, if there's a "live" electrical box, it is either: a) on private property, like attached to the side of a private building or behind a fence, locked, requiring tools or a key to get into, or c) dead, defunct, containing no wires, just a logbook and pen.... I guess the advantage of living in an urban area is that everyone building anything assumes that everyone else out there is an idiot, and protects their dangerous volts appropriately. So, I suppose the rule with an electrical box cache is to look around you and know your area. Would someone need a tool to get into a similar, functioning box? If not, then don't risk training people to go poking around in potentially dangerous sites. I think I've had more close-calls with black widows lurking in the relative peace of a light-post and under bark and rocks (2 at least) than I've ever had finding an exposed wire (0 so far) while geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+Team Perks Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 You know, I can't even begin to count the number of fake electrical boxes, fake sprinklers, fake outlet covers, fake drain pipes, and fake whatever elses I've found. It seems like the majority of those who are complaining about these types of hides have never bothered to go and find one. Not once have I been shocked, maimed, incapacitated, or otherwise injured or harmed looking for and finding one of them. Nor have I otherwised caused any damage to any property when looking for one. I know better than to stick my hands in places they shouldn't be. And for the record...I never stuck a screwdriver in an outlet, and I still know better than that. Heck, the greatest "injury" I've had from a cache having anything to do with electricity was one the scare I got when I opened a container that was rigged to set off an alarm when the lid was opened. Quote Link to comment
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