Hydrocache Container Question

[+nfa]

Hi,

 

I did a search, and didn't come up with any good topics, so...

 

I want to place a couple of hydrocaches this summer, and was wondering about the durability of ammo-cans underwater versus the cost of pelican cases. Any advice, experiences, knowledge would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

nfa-jamie

[CacheNCarryMA]

I used a Pelican case for Triple B-Flat cache, which I hid last summer. When I tested it by sinking it four feet deep in my swimming pool overnight, it stayed dry. In place, at the cache site on Cape Cod Bay, it got soaked and eventually stolen. The combination of tidal action, sun, and possibly some sand or gunk in the seal is probably what did it in. The fact that it was a pretty container in a high traffic area was too tempting for muggles.

 

I used my annual dividend refund from REI to buy it, so the price of the Pelican was not so painful. If I were to replace the hide I'd use a recycled screw top container - maybe some kind of wide neck jug or nalgene bottle.

 

The cache was about fifty yards from shore. This is low tide. If you look closely, you can see a figure on the horizon. :

 

Edited April 14, 2005 by CacheNCarryMA

[+Greymane]

The ammo cans should last quite well under water, but for the price of the Pelicans, that might be a better choice. I saw a listing for some Pelican micro cases (small electronics) but for some reason, they are not listed on the Pelican website.

[+the hermit crabs]

Would a Lock&Lock work? I think I remember reading somewhere in here last year of someone who tested one against water and ice by leaving it in a barrel full of water during the fall, and then letting it ice over during the winter.

 

And they're pretty inexpensive.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

I got a couple of miniture sample pelican cases from a distributer, I've been intending to test one and see how it holds up. I wonder if these samples are as good as the real thing. If nothing else, I'm sure they will work well enough for a normal cache.

[+Still Searching]

I used a piece of 3”PVC for my hydrocache. I glued a regular cap on one end of the pipe and in the other end I used what is called a test plug. This is nothing more than a rubber plug that expands as a wing nut is tightened. I had this underwater a couple of days before I placed it and it was found a couple of days later with no reports of moisture. I found everything I needed for this cache at Home Depot for less than $10.00.

[+welch]

somewhat related question... when people place underwater caches, do they do anything special logbook wise so if/when the container floods the log will survive?

 

I was wondering if maybe there were any materials that could be used even when soaked... something for serious divers probably???

[+Dan-oh]

Would a Lock&Lock work? I think I remember reading somewhere in here last year of someone who tested one against water and ice by leaving it in a barrel full of water during the fall, and then letting it ice over during the winter.

 

And they're pretty inexpensive.

Lock & Locks aren't very airtight or waterproof. The lid can deform over time or in the heat so I think it would be a bad choice.

 

I've used the plumbing test plug with ABS pipe above ground and it works great. I imagine it would work under water IF it gets properly tightened. How about a Nalgene bottle?

 

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Hmm, I seem to remember a thread a long time back about PVC and those wingnut end closures. There was some problem withthem, but I can't remember what. A search may solve this mystery, but I'm not that interested right now

[coolclay]

somewhat related question... when people place underwater caches, do they do anything special logbook wise so if/when the container floods the log will survive?

 

I was wondering if maybe there were any materials that could be used even when soaked... something for serious divers probably???

 

"Write in the rain" notebooks work great.

[+Codswallop]

I like the PVC & test plug idea. I may try it. I wonder though, what are some good ways to retrieve an underwater cache that don't involve swimming? What have you seen/tried? And how do you keep it underwater? And how do you make it suffieicently visible for people to find it without attracting every muggle within half a mile?

[tiber]

Here's one I know works from playing far too much paintball...

 

The ammocans with a good seal (check them out before buying them, broken gaskets or crushed cans are no good) can have silicon gel put on the seal to "build it up". This will make it harder to shut the lid at the bonus of making a very good seal that has kept the rain out many times. Leave a tube in there and ask people who find it to reapply. The same could work for vaseline in a pinch, but it doesn't make as good a seal so it requires the seal be in reasonable condition in the first place. Again, leave a small bottle of it in the cache to reseal the cache with. Thirdly, you may put a piece of cellophane over the cache lid and put the vaseline/gel between the mouth and the film. This also works remarkably well if you're not too sure about your lid, but it is fragile.

[+Dan-oh]

I like the PVC & test plug idea. I may try it. I wonder though, what are some good ways to retrieve an underwater cache that don't involve swimming? What have you seen/tried? And how do you keep it underwater? And how do you make it suffieicently visible for people to find it without attracting every muggle within half a mile?

I have a tide chart at home and I'm waiting for an astronomical low tide, maybe -1 ft or -2 ft. If I place it in a good spot, it can be retrieved maybe just 10 times a year without swimming. An issue is how to attach it so it doesn't float away.

[+Prairie Dog]

You're asking about comparing a Pelican case to an ammo box. Everything I've read in these forums tends to indicate any cache underwater for long periods will end up getting wet.

Here are 2 other types of containers that may hold up underwater. Some cachers find products like these too expensive. I have not tested these so I cannot vouch.

Aquapac

Otter Box

[+Jamie Z]

Ammo can.

 

Check out this post and the associated log.

 

Jamie

[+Prairie Dog]

That's impressive! I would have marked that cache as MIA.

Just remember swamp water equals freshwater right?

How does ammo can hold up to salt water? I've never tried it...

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

A PVC pipe, with screw-in plugs at each end - the kind of plugs that have the square nut on them. Wrap the plug threads with plumber's teflon tape.

 

Place a rock or weight in the bottom of the cache.

 

Drill a small hole in the top plug and screw in a threaded eye, seal with silicone.

 

Tie a 10' long, strong but nearly invisible fishing line (20 lb. test monofilament will do) to the eye. Using a seperate short string tie a plastic plug wrench to the eye as a tool for finders to open it.

 

Insert a $100. bill for the FTF prize.

 

Tie the long string to a tree root at the water's edge (or to a tent stake driven into the ground) and throw the cache in the water.

 

Make sure the weight overcomes its bouyancy.

 

Email me the coordinates before you list the cache.

 

This gives you a watertight container, any size you choose, that's downright evil yet long-lasting and easy to maintain!

 

All of the materials for this cache can be had at any hardware store for ~$10.

 

Have fun,

Ed

[+Circle of Confusion]

Ammo can.

 

Check out this post and the associated log.

 

Jamie

**************PLEASE BE CAREFULL TO REPLACE and CAMOFLAGE THIS CACHE.************** The Final Cache is in an area which is heavily used by livestock which WILL tote the cache off if it is not properly replaced and camoflaged.

 

What kind of livestock walks off with a 50Cal Ammo Can?

[+Codswallop]

Ammo can.

 

Check out this post and the associated log.

 

Jamie

The photos show this to be a robust container. I am impressed!

[+Codswallop]

A PVC pipe, with screw-in plugs at each end - the kind of plugs that have the square nut on them. Wrap the plug threads with plumber's teflon tape.

 

Tie a 10' long, strong but nearly invisible fishing line (20 lb. test monofilament will do) to the eye. Using a seperate short string tie a plastic plug wrench to the eye as a tool for finders to open it.

 

Insert a $100. bill for the FTF prize.

 

All of the materials for this cache can be had at any hardware store for ~$10.

 

Have fun,

Ed

OK, the Teflon tape thing is a problem. GCers are wonderful people as a group, but some of them don't have a half-teaspoon of sense. I'm looking for a container that would not require maintenance every time someone finds it.

 

The other stuff is great, especially the monofilament. I like the tool idea too--my Rising Gorge cache here in Massachusetts has a "Useful Tool" that you have to find in another location in order to open the final.

 

Does your hardware store have $100 bills for ten bucks? Now I know why Home Depot is taking over!

 

I'll email you the starting coords. They will be in New England. Hope that's worth a hundred bucks.

[+Isonzo Karst]

There's an ammo can hide south of me that's in the reeds on a pond edge. Can's been there a couple of years, floating and staying dry inside.

 

I've seen the plumbing plug used unsuccessfully on two local hydrocaches. It has to be absolutely perpendicular to the pipe wall to work, and fairly tight. I think adding an interior ring or stop for it that will keep it perpendicular is the key.

[+BadAndy]

Here fishy fishy.....

 

[+forman]

If you used a rubber cap (sometimes call a JM cap) that has a hose clamp on it and tell the finder to bring a screw driver or 3/16 (I think) socket with them. They come in sizes from 1 1/2", 2", 3" & 4" Plumbers use them for testing and they will hold water.

 

Here is what I found on the net,

 

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.j...rentPage=family

 

Don

[+sbell111]

I have two ammo cans in flood prone areas and they both have held up very well.

 

A few years ago, there was a thread about an ammo can that was sunk for a hydrocache and worked out very well. I remember that there was a pic with the box covered in barnacles. It was pretty cool. I tried a search, but struck out.

[+sbell111]

Here is the log.

 

Here is the old thread. There are also ideas regarding underwater caches.

[+Still Searching]

I like the PVC & test plug idea. I may try it. I wonder though, what are some good ways to retrieve an underwater cache that don't involve swimming? What have you seen/tried? And how do you keep it underwater? And how do you make it suffieicently visible for people to find it without attracting every muggle within half a mile?

What I have done with mine is to place a hose clamp around the PVC and loop it through a small link of chain. This is connected to a length of light chain we used to use for the dog with a clip on the end. About a foot under the hook is a float (plastic soda bottle with the cap siliconed on) this will keep the chain close to the surface when unhooked from the container. At the other end is a cinder block.

This cache was placed in an old sand pit that the water level stays very consistent as well as clear. The container can be seen from the surface about a foot under the water. This is a small body of water that allows only electric boat motors. I would hate to think of the damage that would occur if a rather large gas powered boat was to wind up the chain and cement block.

[+pwcorg]

Here fishy fishy.....

 

Possibly a bit off topic, but especially in today's world please please please paint and label the can or at least obscure the old markings denoting ammunition...

[+Big Dawgg & Cardinal Girl]

I like the PVC & test plug idea. I may try it. I wonder though, what are some good ways to retrieve an underwater cache that don't involve swimming? What have you seen/tried? And how do you keep it underwater? And how do you make it suffieicently visible for people to find it without attracting every muggle within half a mile?

What I have done with mine is to place a hose clamp around the PVC and loop it through a small link of chain. This is connected to a length of light chain we used to use for the dog with a clip on the end. About a foot under the hook is a float (plastic soda bottle with the cap siliconed on) this will keep the chain close to the surface when unhooked from the container. At the other end is a cinder block.

This cache was placed in an old sand pit that the water level stays very consistent as well as clear. The container can be seen from the surface about a foot under the water. This is a small body of water that allows only electric boat motors. I would hate to think of the damage that would occur if a rather large gas powered boat was to wind up the chain and cement block.

I found Still Searchings cache that he explained and it was nicely done and all contents inside were dry. It was a great cache and put together well. When I did it one of my big concerns was unhooking the chain and dropping it to the bottom. I was glad to see he had put the bottle on it to keep it floating just under the surface of the water. Still one of the best caches I have done.

[+Circle of Confusion]

Here is the log.

 

Here is the old thread. There are also ideas regarding underwater caches.

I am not familar with this area. Is this Cache in Salt Water?

[OursDispo]

Everyone seems concerned about making waterproof container.

Is that such a big deal for underwater cache? So what if it is filled with water.

 

Just put a note on the cache page that geocacher should bring object that will not deteriorate over long period of time in water (plastic would be preferable I guess).

 

As for the log book, well forget the log book. Geocacher can always report their find on the web site anyway. Unless you want to put it in 12 layers of Zip-lok.

 

Seems to me that an external explanatory notice would be mandatory though.

 

As anyone made such cache ??

[+welch]

Everyone seems concerned about making waterproof container.

Is that such a big deal for underwater cache? So what if it is filled with water.

 

Just put a note on the cache page that geocacher should bring object that will not deteriorate over long period of time in water (plastic would be preferable I guess).

 

As for the log book, well forget the log book. Geocacher can always report their find on the web site anyway. Unless you want to put it in 12 layers of Zip-lok.

 

Seems to me that an external explanatory notice would be mandatory though.

 

As anyone made such cache ??

Would it be difficult to get a reviewer to list a cach without a log of some type? Or is it alright sinces its probably pretty rare?

[+Miragee]

If there is no log, there would be no way for the cache owner to verify the online logs . . .

[+Lunaverse]

What about for a "large" underwater cache?

 

I'm thinking of this as a long-term project (I have to place some "easy" caches first!). However, there are so few "large" caches around here, I'd like to place one, and underwater seems about the only place one could hide it around here without it being noticed.

 

My concept is to have it on a chain, and lowered into the water. Cache would be retrieved by drawing up the chain. Again, this is an early concept, so I haven't fleshed out any details.

 

However, I have been pondering over a "large" reliably waterproof container. These suggestions are all regular. Any ideas?

 

My other thought is to make it permiable, stock it with water-happy items, make the logbook Rite-in-the-rain, and put it inside a smaller, waterproof container.

 

Luna

Edited May 13, 2005 by Lunaverse

[+sbell111]

Possibly a bit off topic, but especially in today's world please please please paint and label the can or at least obscure the old markings denoting ammunition...

How's this for obscured?

[+sbell111]

...As for the log book, well forget the log book. Geocacher can always report their find on the web site anyway. Unless you want to put it in 12 layers of Zip-lok....

Sorry, a while back they stopped approving them if they didn't have a log.

[DoGgY]

If there is no log, there would be no way for the cache owner to verify the online logs . . .

Sure you could. I'm thinking along the lines of including a little metal/plastic container with a coin slot in the top located at the cache. Have instructions that when someone dives to the cache they need to drop a coin into the container. Then when they sign the online log they must contact the owner of the cache and provide a description of the coin. i.e. a 1975 Canadian penny. It doesn't have to be a coin, but it made a good example since they are pretty resistant to water and they are readily available to everyone.

[+Joe Smith]

I have a hydro cache almost ready to place. I put the cache underwater about a week ago with just a sheet of paper to test for dampness. It is a 30 cal ammo can under about 3 feet of water, and secured to a stump with a hook. This weekend i plan to check on it to see if it passed the test.

 

I have been conditioning the seal with petrol jelly for a few weeks, and treated everything with rustolium paint. I think it will hold up very well, but just in case the log boook is a bunch of notecards that I have laminated. The cache needs to be signed with a small sharpie. No matter now wet it gets the log should be okay. I will also ask the all trades be waterproof.

 

It is in fresh water, and it is so murky you can't even see it at one foot down. I don't think it will be muggled. There are no real currents to strain the container, and it is suspended upside down, so if it leaks we can only expect an inch or so inside.

 

If this thread is still around I will let you know how it works.

 

Joe Smith

[+Joe Smith]

After one week at 3 feet down it is still waterproof.

 

I didn't really doubt it anyways.

 

It will take a few weeks to get everything ready, if it leaks by thel i'll just put it on land.

 

Joe Smith

[+Husker]

Would a Lock&Lock work? I think I remember reading somewhere in here last year of someone who tested one against water and ice by leaving it in a barrel full of water during the fall, and then letting it ice over during the winter.

 

And they're pretty inexpensive.

Lock-N-Lock are watertight from the inside out but not from the outside in. They will hold water and not leak. However, if they are submerged, they tend to leak. I guess filling them doesn't create a lot of pressure. Taking them even 6" under water seems to create enough pressure to allow drips.

 

I bought a set and tested them. About half leaked just in the kitchen sink. I observed slow leaks to no leaks. I figured the seal was good enough to resist rain but not submersion.

[+TimInOhio and Brittany]

Tie a 10' long, strong but nearly invisible fishing line (20 lb. test monofilament will do) to the eye. Using a seperate short string tie a plastic plug wrench to the eye as a tool for finders to open it.

 

Tie the long string to a tree root at the water's edge (or to a tent stake driven into the ground) and throw the cache in the water.

 

Make sure the weight overcomes its bouyancy.

The first stage of a multi I found was hidden similarly:

 

A welding rod container (seals with a screw on lid with a large O ring, see here) was secured with heavy gauge monofilament, secured to a bush at the edge of the stream and thrown in. Four large blocks of lead made sure it sank! I looked for nearly 2 hrs before I found the first stage. It's a great way to hide, but as I recall, the inside was a little damp.

 

One alternative would be to just use the hydrocache to hide the coordinates of the cache, having the coords writen/engraved on something not sensitive to water damage.

 

Tim

[+duckm]

I'm going to try the nalgene bottle as an underwater cache. I let you know how it works.

[+DocDiTTo]

Here's one I know works from playing far too much paintball...

 

The ammocans with a good seal (check them out before buying them, broken gaskets or crushed cans are no good) can have silicon gel put on the seal to "build it up". {snip} The same could work for vaseline in a pinch, but it doesn't make as good a seal so it requires the seal be in reasonable condition in the first place.

Vaseline and other petrolium based products will destroy rubber. Silicon gel is safe for rubber, but not vaseline. (If you don't believe me, read the warning on a pack of condoms!)

[+trail hound]

I've done two different caches that were underwater and both times an Ammo can was used and the contents were bone dry...One was fastened to a tree with a chain and an anchor kept the cache under atleast 10 feet of water!!!!

[+tabulator32]

Everyone seems concerned about making waterproof container.

Is that such a big deal for underwater cache? So what if it is filled with water.

Concerning a log book for a "wet" cache...There are underwater note boards made of plastic for sale at scuba shops everywhere. They usually come with a small golf-style pencil and a length of rubber tubing to hold the pencil to the tablet (tied through a small hole in the corner of the tablet).

 

They are, of course, completely waterproof and scuba divers use them to write messages to each other and make notes or do calculations all the time. They come in all different sizes and are only a couple millimeters thick so they would fit against the side wall of an ammo can perfectly.

 

I don't know if a "wet"-style hydrocache (one allowed to fill with water when submerged) is against any rules, or if anyone would find them any more practical than a "dry" one. Its just a thought.

[Charles Iverson]

Please read my forum post about the end plug cache

[+Circle of Confusion]

Please read my  forum post about the end plug cache

I read your post. Looks very interesting. There was one comment about it looking like a pipe bomb. If you paint that PVC pipe White and red/orange it will look just like a bouy. It would look natural being there, even if it was seen on the surface.

 

Here's a Picture of one, that I found on the net. It just happens to say danger on it, but it can say anything (like "swim area"), or nothing at all. just don't have it somewhere where it will confuse or misslead active boaters.

 

Here is a float. Same idea.

 

Actually, I might try making a cachine like this.

[Charles Iverson]

NOW THAT'S A GOOD IDEA!!!! THANKS that what i was going for,

The float will work i think

 

i could make the float say (CACHE!!!!!)

 

jk.. i don't want to give it away that easy..

[+IV_Warrior]

Well, since someone bumped this old thread, I'll chime in with my experience with a PCV pipe/test plug cache. I had one end glued on, like suggested above in this thread, and a test plug for the other end. I had two problems.

 

1) It DIDN'T stay dry inside, and it wasn't submerged, but was in a damp location.

2) It became EXTREMELY difficult to open. In fact, on cacher reported finding it, but not being able to get it open. I stopped by the next day to check, and had to use channel-locks, and ended up breaking the wing-nut off, and just prying the test plug out with a screw-driver. Fortunately, I had given up on the container just based on the log, and had brought along an ammo can and was just opening the PVC on to move the contents over.

[Charles Iverson]

thats why i am putting a can of petroleum jelly in the cache..

and i have had no problems in testing keeping water out...

[jwillis]

A PVC pipe, with screw-in plugs at each end - the kind of plugs that have the square nut on them. Wrap the plug threads with plumber's teflon tape.

 

Place a rock or weight in the bottom of the cache.

 

Drill a small hole in the top plug and screw in a threaded eye, seal with silicone.

 

Tie a 10' long, strong but nearly invisible fishing line (20 lb. test monofilament will do) to the eye. Using a seperate short string tie a plastic plug wrench to the eye as a tool for finders to open it.

 

Insert a $100. bill for the FTF prize.

 

Humph, I was FTF on that one but there was no $100 bill.

 

Actually, that kind was one of the most fun we'd had on a cache. Don't know how long it will last if there were a flood though - water logging it or washing it down stream.