Bribing US To Transfer Our Caches To A Competing Site

[fendmar]

Man, for the second time in this thread, I'll mention how I'm shocked how much support Garmin is getting. How soon we forget. We forget that they cluelessly launched a website that didn't even have the basic functionality of Navicache, which was last updated in 2003. How they cluelessly took on the "Opencaching" name, which was already being used on 12 different all-volunteer opencaching nodes world-wide since 2005. How they had absolutely, positively no review process whatsover, and just came up with the "peer reviewer" system on the fly, after mass, worldwide outrage? I could go on, but I don't need to.

 

I will say one thing. They don't ban the use of the P-word over there. And they even give them away.

I'll nibble on that bait a little. Please don't construe my position that it's nice seeing hiders get some recognition to mean that I support one site over another. Nor that my position is anti-GS! (I'm sure the truly big # hiders and event hosts get their perks. The one place it is all about the numbers!) I got no dog in that fight. I should also point out that IMO none of the reasons cited are near enough to make me ignore a market leader if and when I should upgrade my handheld.

 

I do feel courting people with freebies is a viable marketing strategy. (I believe most people would concede that point, I know Madison Ave does!) So considering everyone has their price and some feel a PT isn't worth it, then perhaps what a 50$ discount on a new GPSr? a 100$ discount? I would wager if they offered a new GPSr for a certain number of unique hides that other site would have plenty of takers! (I am very interested to hear what purpose listing one’s archived caches would serve other than hurting one's own reputation as a hider!)

 

This whole thread does bring up an interesting tangent for me. Where did the relationship between GS and GI go south to make GI form a competing site? Has it already been discussed? From what I can guess it occurred somewhere after WIGO and before CHRP. Probably something along the lines of GS stopping development/support for WIGO to focus on other projects (Most likely the iP app), while GI had barely begun shipping WIGO enabled units out the door. However, I strongly suspect further speculation on that subject wouldn't be constructive and would quickly get this thread locked. And again I don't have any dog in that fight.

 

A quick point about cross-listing that I see is that other site gets all the benefit of GC's review process without the headaches of administration. (Underhanded? Perhaps, but again all's fair in love and war!)

 

Lastly, I have to thank the OP for posting this, since I wasn't aware of this offer and would not have known about it had it not been posted here and the longer this thread lives that other site is getting more free advertising! I know some would argue negative advertising!

[fendmar]

Oh...and as far as cheese goes grade A 100% American processed cheese food! There's that eagle again!

[fendmar]

PSS. I'm sure GJr factors into that tangent somewhere!

[+Don_J]

Looking closely at my area, it looks like 6 or 7 people cross posted all of their caches when the site first went active. They have since abandoned it. We have one active hider that continues to cross list all of his new caches. This cacher also puts one of those QR thingies at all of his new hides. I guess he just likes covering all the bases. If I see him at the next M&G I'll ask how often he gets logs on the OX side.

[+Snoogans]

Looking closely at my area, it looks like 6 or 7 people cross posted all of their caches when the site first went active. They have since abandoned it. We have one active hider that continues to cross list all of his new caches. This cacher also puts one of those QR thingies at all of his new hides. I guess he just likes covering all the bases. If I see him at the next M&G I'll ask how often he gets logs on the OX side.

 

I guess as a former charter Terracacher, the idea of crosslisted caches is just repellant to me. TC did a good job of creating a culture that would hide unique listings.

 

After having the app on my phone for almost a year, I tried one of those QR thingies during the Paddle Boat cruise @ GWX. It totally failed to blow my skirt up but I can see how it would appeal to some.

 

NOW, I made an observation to ClayJar & Corp of Discovery that some would find interesting...

 

The QR thingy site has the proof of geo-location angle covered. It has been an issue from time to time here with armchair logging.

 

Terracaching had the right idea with the FTF code. I still think we need that here.

 

And GC.com has the huge database, support and development covered.

 

Put those three elements together and you have near perfection. However, not everyone has a smart phone and how the heck much would Garmin and Magellan charge for a smart GPS not to mention the programming GC.com would have to do to accomodate such a feature for proof of geo-location.?

[cezanne]

 

The QR thingy site has the proof of geo-location angle covered. It has been an issue from time to time here with armchair logging.

 

Terracaching had the right idea with the FTF code. I still think we need that here.

 

And GC.com has the huge database, support and development covered.

 

Put those three elements together and you have near perfection.

 

Oh my dear, opinions can be that different. No, I definitely neither want FTF codes or something similar here (it would make things worse not better)

nor QR codes or other proofs of geolocation. I do not even think that a huge database is a component for a perfect cache data base.

 

Cezanne

[Mr.Yuck]

PSS. I'm sure GJr factors into that tangent somewhere!

 

I just quoted the short P.S.S. Yes, this guest editorial on the great Notaboutthenumbers.com blog blames the rift primarly on the Geomate Jr., and the $10 Groundspeak Smartphone Apps.

 

The piece was written about 6 months ago, and coincided with Opencaching.com's one year anniversary. The big disclaimer is that it was written by a European Groundspeak reviewer, SteamTraen. No matter though, I don't remember anything in it I disagree with. I do remember the usual suspects over at the Opencaching.com forum (which I occasionally read for comic relief) went bonkers over it.

[+Snoogans]

 

The QR thingy site has the proof of geo-location angle covered. It has been an issue from time to time here with armchair logging.

 

Terracaching had the right idea with the FTF code. I still think we need that here.

 

And GC.com has the huge database, support and development covered.

 

Put those three elements together and you have near perfection.

 

Oh my dear, opinions can be that different. No, I definitely neither want FTF codes or something similar here (it would make things worse not better)

nor QR codes or other proofs of geolocation. I do not even think that a huge database is a component for a perfect cache data base.

 

Cezanne

 

It was a pie in the sky observation. I'm fine with the way things are going here. I give it B+ remember?

[+Snoogans]

PSS. I'm sure GJr factors into that tangent somewhere!

 

I just quoted the short P.S.S. Yes, this guest editorial on the great Notaboutthenumbers.com blog blames the rift primarly on the Geomate Jr., and the $10 Groundspeak Smartphone Apps.

 

The piece was written about 6 months ago, and coincided with Opencaching.com's one year anniversary. The big disclaimer is that it was written by a European Groundspeak reviewer, SteamTraen. No matter though, I don't remember anything in it I disagree with. I do remember the usual suspects over at the Opencaching.com forum (which I occasionally read for comic relief) went bonkers over it.

 

WOW. Thanks for posting that link. I think my blood just turned a shade greener even though I wonder how much of it is actually true and how much is just perception. Given the date of the blog, I feel a bit behind the times in posting this thread.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Snoogans

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

The QR thingy site has the proof of geo-location angle covered. It has been an issue from time to time here with armchair logging.

 

Not sure a QR code is an answer. For caches deep in the woods where there is poor (or no) cell coverage, this won't work. And if you are able to capture a pciture of the code for later upload and logging, there's nothign to prevent someone from passing that picture around. Not to mention the fact that not everyone has (or wants) a smartphone.

[+Volvo Man]

For two minutes I was thinking: "Hmm... it might be a nice idea for GS to offer thank you gifts to people who have placed a certain number of caches." But then my common sense kicked in and told me that would be terrible. How many people would just chuck down whatever type of container in whatever type of place just so they could get some froggie swag?

 

If a competing site wants to increase their hide numbers that way, I think they are going to gain a reputation in the long term for listing lousy caches.

This argument is also amusing, since GC is known only for the highest caliber of hides!

 

Funny how this is stated so matter of factly, and accepted as fact in this thread. But bring up that there are too many lame micros on this website in a lame micro thread, and you're like a mean, cold-hearted member of the radical vocal minority.

 

There have been a few people out there who have downloaded the entire Opencaching.com cache database, and crunched numbers; how many caches there are, how many are unique, etc. Where are these people? I'd like to see the current numbers.

 

I think Fendmar was being wryly Sarcastic with that comment (note the smiley)

[+ArtieD]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

[Mr.Yuck]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

 

Yes, but you should have posted a disclaimer that you are the master troll on the Opencaching.com Forums.

 

Just kidding, I admire your work over there. Garmin certainly knows their little project isn't going anywhere near as well as expected if they read your posts. Which I'm sure they do.

[cezanne]

 

The QR thingy site has the proof of geo-location angle covered. It has been an issue from time to time here with armchair logging.

 

Terracaching had the right idea with the FTF code. I still think we need that here.

 

And GC.com has the huge database, support and development covered.

 

Put those three elements together and you have near perfection.

 

Oh my dear, opinions can be that different. No, I definitely neither want FTF codes or something similar here (it would make things worse not better)

nor QR codes or other proofs of geolocation. I do not even think that a huge database is a component for a perfect cache data base.

 

Cezanne

 

It was a pie in the sky observation. I'm fine with the way things are going here. I give it B+ remember?

 

Yes, I remember. My point was that the grade I would give gc.com would became much, much worse if they introduced FTF-codes, QR verification etc over here.

In any case, it is just a side remark in this thread.

 

Cezanne

[+briansnat]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

 

They could hold their events in a phone booth.

[+sTeamTraen]

I just quoted the short P.S.S. Yes, this guest editorial on the great Notaboutthenumbers.com blog blames the rift primarly on the Geomate Jr., and the $10 Groundspeak Smartphone Apps.

 

The piece was written about 6 months ago, and coincided with Opencaching.com's one year anniversary. The big disclaimer is that it was written by a European Groundspeak reviewer, SteamTraen. No matter though, I don't remember anything in it I disagree with. I do remember the usual suspects over at the Opencaching.com forum (which I occasionally read for comic relief) went bonkers over it.

WOW. Thanks for posting that link. I think my blood just turned a shade greener even though I wonder how much of it is actually true and how much is just perception. Given the date of the blog, I feel a bit behind the times in posting this thread.

As far as I know, everything which I wrote in that article is true (apart from the bits which are clearly opinion such as my guess at the reasons for Garmin starting the site).

 

In fact the most interesting stats are in the subsequent comments to the post, especially where I look at the number of logs. As Chile-Head pointed out above, this is the true measure of a site. Although a certain number of people are cross-listing their caches (about 1.5% of Geocaching.com caches have now been cross-listed to OpenCaching.com) and some people are uploading their logs (now if *that* isn't a pathetic attempt to pad Garmin's data, using logs from before their site existed, I don't know what is), almost nobody is writing original logs on OpenCaching.com caches. And by "almost nobody", I mean something like 20-25 logs per day. Geocaching.com averages about 250,000 logs per day, leaving Garmin with 0.01% of the "market".

 

I understand why Garmin is bribing people with a pathtag - after all, the classic Internet marketing model is "grab market share first, monetise later", and if they could somehow get even 10% of the caches, they'd have some presence - but they're up against a company with a 10-year head start in a domain which is a natural monopoly. So maybe a few people with a little time on their hands and some technical curiosity are cross-listing a few of their caches to see what happens (and get the pathtag; hey, when OpenCaching.com is dead and gone, maybe it'll be a good memorial); but to a very close approximation, *nobody* is using OpenCaching.com to actually go geocaching. (As Lil Devil pointed out, Garmin has apparently been reduced to using pictures of someone finding a cache listed at Geocaching.com to promote their site. Kind of like Pepsi showing someone drinking Coke and saying "Mmmm, lot of folks enjoy cola".)

 

There have been a few people out there who have downloaded the entire Opencaching.com cache database, and crunched numbers; how many caches there are, how many are unique, etc. Where are these people? I'd like to see the current numbers.

As of right now:

- Total caches, less than 25,000.

- Total "Found" logs on those caches in the last 30 days - many of which could be cross-listed logs: 1,210.

- Caches unique to OpenCaching.com (which have never been cross-listed at any other site, or declined by Geocaching.com reviewers, etc): around 2,100.

- Total "Found" logs on those unique caches in the last 30 days: 265. (There are probably quite a few individual Geocaching.com members who have logged more finds than that in the last month.)

[+Snoogans]

I just quoted the short P.S.S. Yes, this guest editorial on the great Notaboutthenumbers.com blog blames the rift primarly on the Geomate Jr., and the $10 Groundspeak Smartphone Apps.

 

The piece was written about 6 months ago, and coincided with Opencaching.com's one year anniversary. The big disclaimer is that it was written by a European Groundspeak reviewer, SteamTraen. No matter though, I don't remember anything in it I disagree with. I do remember the usual suspects over at the Opencaching.com forum (which I occasionally read for comic relief) went bonkers over it.

WOW. Thanks for posting that link. I think my blood just turned a shade greener even though I wonder how much of it is actually true and how much is just perception. Given the date of the blog, I feel a bit behind the times in posting this thread.

As far as I know, everything which I wrote in that article is true (apart from the bits which are clearly opinion such as my guess at the reasons for Garmin starting the site).

 

In fact the most interesting stats are in the subsequent comments to the post, especially where I look at the number of logs. As Chile-Head pointed out above, this is the true measure of a site. Although a certain number of people are cross-listing their caches (about 1.5% of Geocaching.com caches have now been cross-listed to OpenCaching.com) and some people are uploading their logs (now if *that* isn't a pathetic attempt to pad Garmin's data, using logs from before their site existed, I don't know what is), almost nobody is writing original logs on OpenCaching.com caches. And by "almost nobody", I mean something like 20-25 logs per day. Geocaching.com averages about 250,000 logs per day, leaving Garmin with 0.01% of the "market".

 

I understand why Garmin is bribing people with a pathtag - after all, the classic Internet marketing model is "grab market share first, monetise later", and if they could somehow get even 10% of the caches, they'd have some presence - but they're up against a company with a 10-year head start in a domain which is a natural monopoly. So maybe a few people with a little time on their hands and some technical curiosity are cross-listing a few of their caches to see what happens (and get the pathtag; hey, when OpenCaching.com is dead and gone, maybe it'll be a good memorial); but to a very close approximation, *nobody* is using OpenCaching.com to actually go geocaching. (As Lil Devil pointed out, Garmin has apparently been reduced to using pictures of someone finding a cache listed at Geocaching.com to promote their site. Kind of like Pepsi showing someone drinking Coke and saying "Mmmm, lot of folks enjoy cola".)

 

There have been a few people out there who have downloaded the entire Opencaching.com cache database, and crunched numbers; how many caches there are, how many are unique, etc. Where are these people? I'd like to see the current numbers.

As of right now:

- Total caches, less than 25,000.

- Total "Found" logs on those caches in the last 30 days - many of which could be cross-listed logs: 1,210.

- Caches unique to OpenCaching.com (which have never been cross-listed at any other site, or declined by Geocaching.com reviewers, etc): around 2,100.

- Total "Found" logs on those unique caches in the last 30 days: 265. (There are probably quite a few individual Geocaching.com members who have logged more finds than that in the last month.)

 

 

That was an excellent blog. I haven't had time to look at more than a couple of the reader's comments. I do plan to get back to it. Interesting reading.

[+Snoogans]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

 

They could hold their events in a phone booth.

 

The easy test would be to host an OX only event and see who shows up if anyone? Fendmar is a local geocaching friend of mine and we probably wouldn't have to raise our voices to talk over the din of too many other OXers.

 

I had a Terracaching only flashmob event, in my camp, at GW4 and about 20 of the 1400 or so people at GW4 showed up.

 

I'm guessing I might bring in 1 to 4 OXers to an OX only event for all of Houston.

 

I honestly have no problem with crosslisting events. Cachers are cachers. The activity and the discussion are both the same. Only the angst is different.

 

I liken the thought of excluding OXers, TCers, or NCers, to what happens between Harley/Titan riders and everyone else. Rice burner riders are considered second class. I never understood that since we all enjoy the same thing.

 

I believe there is and should be a place for a competing site in this market. Terracaching almost had it. Opencaching could have done it better with the might of a billion dollar corporation behind it. Too bad they chose the parasitic route.

 

I wish one of you tech savvy guys could do a comparison between TC & OX. I'll eat a bug* if the nearly DEAD TC site doesn't have more unique caches than OX. The numbers already quoted in this thread point toward it. More reason for the powers that be at OX to sit up and take notice. Hey, maybe they can buy TC and NC to get some more original listings.

[+The Jester]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

Do you have something against Garmin, or are against any company having a presence at a "GC.com listed event"? How about all those vendors at GW that sell competing items to GS's Store? Should they be banned from any event not put on (and promoted only) by themselves? Remember events are open to any and all cachers, whoever they work for.

[+Lil Devil]

Right about here would be a good time to point out some new text in the Mega Event Guidelines. (highlighting mine)

 

Please note that publication of a Mega-Event cache provides exposure to millions of geocachers both on Geocaching.com and through our weekly newsletter. In consideration of the significant resources we devote to publicizing the Mega-Event, Groundspeak reserves the right to deny or retract publication of Mega events sponsored by other commercial geocache listing services unless written permission has been granted by Groundspeak.

[knowschad]

Right about here would be a good time to point out some new text in the Mega Event Guidelines. (highlighting mine)

 

Please note that publication of a Mega-Event cache provides exposure to millions of geocachers both on Geocaching.com and through our weekly newsletter. In consideration of the significant resources we devote to publicizing the Mega-Event, Groundspeak reserves the right to deny or retract publication of Mega events sponsored by other commercial geocache listing services unless written permission has been granted by Groundspeak.

 

I find it interesting that the verbiage specifically limits that right to mega events, and not all events.

[Keystone]

Look at the last sentence of the detailed listing guidelines for regular events. Mega events are in a separate section.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I had a Terracaching only flashmob event, in my camp, at GW4 and about 20 of the 1400 or so people at GW4 showed up.

 

I'm guessing I might bring in 1 to 4 OXers to an OX only event for all of Houston.

 

 

Interesting. The "other" Opencaching had a meet-up event at GW this year. I think about 8 people attended. Amazingly, I cajoled 20 people to show up at an event listed only on the "other" Opencaching in late 2010. However, the next two we've had in my area only managed 8 and 10 attendees respectively. I'll tell you what, the only person that would show up at an Opencaching.com event in my area would be the host.

 

 

That was an excellent blog. I haven't had time to look at more than a couple of the reader's comments. I do plan to get back to it. Interesting reading.

 

The comment by "Cdcacher" towards the bottom makes some excellent observations. Even though he said mean stuff about people that post to Geocaching forums. Most notably his comments about how no one with more than a minor passing knowledge of Geocaching could have possibly been involved in the launch of that website. They put out a website that didn't contain the most basic elements at all the alternative Geocaching websites, including the horrific Navicache. Such as No HTML on cache pages, not being able to upload photos, not being able to email another player, and not being notified when your caches are found. As the great Casey Kasem once said in a behind the scenes audio clip leaked to the public, _______ing ponderous, man.

 

 

As of right now:

- Total caches, less than 25,000.

- Total "Found" logs on those caches in the last 30 days - many of which could be cross-listed logs: 1,210.

- Caches unique to OpenCaching.com (which have never been cross-listed at any other site, or declined by Geocaching.com reviewers, etc): around 2,100.

- Total "Found" logs on those unique caches in the last 30 days: 265. (There are probably quite a few individual Geocaching.com members who have logged more finds than that in the last month.)

 

So about 5,000 more than when you made your blog post? Great job, by the way, glad I could give you a new audience 6 months later. Well that would put them still at only half of the alternative site with the most listings, Opencaching.de. I have no clue how many of them are cross-listed though. Opencaching.us actually has about 90% unique listings.

[cezanne]

[ Well that would put them still at only half of the alternative site with the most listings, Opencaching.de. I have no clue how many of them are cross-listed though.

 

The majority of them are crosslisted. There exists an oc-only attribute which one can set if one wants to stress that the cache is only available at oc, but the attribute is not always set. There are a couple of caches with distance issues on gc.com hat are exclusively on oc.de.

 

I also havbe crosslisted my caches on oc.de (except the last one) for several reasons. One was that at the time I listed them gc.com did not offer a German interface and I also wanted to make some of the cache available to those whose English is weak. Another reason was that I like the feature that oc.de offers to separate different language versions. Actually, I was among those who asked for that feature and the small development team (back then 1 person) implemented it within a very short period of time while Groundspeak has not made any progress in this direction since 2003.

A third reason was that I thought a backup can never harm. The fourth reason was that even though there do not exist saturation guidelines at opencaching, it does not harm making one's caches also known to the small community of opencaching only users.

 

Cezanne

[+ChileHead]

(As Lil Devil pointed out, Garmin has apparently been reduced to using pictures of someone finding a[ cache listed at Geocaching.com to promote their site. Kind of like Pepsi showing someone drinking Coke and saying "Mmmm, lot of folks enjoy cola".)

 

Next we'll see the images photo shopped to stick their logo on a logbook over the top of GS's.

[+B+L]

how is this site negative towards everyone else?

You should have a pretty clear idea of what I was referring to by now.

[Mr.Yuck]

[ Well that would put them still at only half of the alternative site with the most listings, Opencaching.de. I have no clue how many of them are cross-listed though.

 

The majority of them are crosslisted. There exists an oc-only attribute which one can set if one wants to stress that the cache is only available at oc, but the attribute is not always set. There are a couple of caches with distance issues on gc.com hat are exclusively on oc.de.

 

I also havbe crosslisted my caches on oc.de (except the last one) for several reasons. One was that at the time I listed them gc.com did not offer a German interface and I also wanted to make some of the cache available to those whose English is weak. Another reason was that I like the feature that oc.de offers to separate different language versions. Actually, I was among those who asked for that feature and the small development team (back then 1 person) implemented it within a very short period of time while Groundspeak has not made any progress in this direction since 2003.

A third reason was that I thought a backup can never harm. The fourth reason was that even though there do not exist saturation guidelines at opencaching, it does not harm making one's caches also known to the small community of opencaching only users.

 

Cezanne

 

Thanks! I never could figure that out, even though they have an English version of Opencaching.de. I was however, able to figure out they have about 50,000 listings. Yes, in a Country the size of Germany, one could actually cache only on an alternative site, and have plenty of caches to find. That's probably about the only place in the world though.

 

how is this site negative towards everyone else?

You should have a pretty clear idea of what I was referring to by now.

 

You mean several Groundspeak volunteer reviewers have expressed their disdain for Opencaching.com? My issue with them is different, as I am indeed a fanboy of other alternative sites. But I'd better sign off now, as I once had my wrist slapped for "promoting" other sites in these forums.

[+briansnat]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

 

They could hold their events in a phone booth.

 

The easy test would be to host an OX only event and see who shows up if anyone? Fendmar is a local geocaching friend of mine and we probably wouldn't have to raise our voices to talk over the din of too many other OXers.

 

I had a Terracaching only flashmob event, in my camp, at GW4 and about 20 of the 1400 or so people at GW4 showed up.

 

I'm guessing I might bring in 1 to 4 OXers to an OX only event for all of Houston.

 

I honestly have no problem with crosslisting events. Cachers are cachers. The activity and the discussion are both the same. Only the angst is different.

 

I liken the thought of excluding OXers, TCers, or NCers, to what happens between Harley/Titan riders and everyone else. Rice burner riders are considered second class. I never understood that since we all enjoy the same thing.

 

I believe there is and should be a place for a competing site in this market. Terracaching almost had it. Opencaching could have done it better with the might of a billion dollar corporation behind it. Too bad they chose the parasitic route.

 

I wish one of you tech savvy guys could do a comparison between TC & OX. I'll eat a bug* if the nearly DEAD TC site doesn't have more unique caches than OX. The numbers already quoted in this thread point toward it. More reason for the powers that be at OX to sit up and take notice. Hey, maybe they can buy TC and NC to get some more original listings.

 

Terracaching offered an alternative, a supposed emphasis on "high quality" caches. I give them a nice try.

 

OX from day one was about taking from Groundspeak. What was telling was that they not only allowed cross listing of caches they also allowed mass import of found it logs. That bizarre feature was implemented before simple things like log notifications, owner deletion capability and the ability to add photos. That told me that from day one their goal was not to offer an alternative, but to kill Groundspeak.

[+sTeamTraen]

OX from day one was about taking from Groundspeak. What was telling was that they not only allowed cross listing of caches they also allowed mass import of found it logs. That bizarre feature was implemented before simple things like log notifications, owner deletion capability and the ability to add photos. That told me that from day one their goal was not to offer an alternative, but to kill Groundspeak.

Indeed, log import was implemented before Garmin even worked out that the namespaces of Geocaching.com, Opencaching.de/pl/cz/us/etc, TC.com, and NC.com would all overlap if you stripped off the first two letters and stuck "OX" on the front. Several people now have logs on OX caches which they never found, because they uploaded logs from GC4567 but a cache like OP4567 or NC4567 was uploaded instead. This raises serious questions about the quality of Garmin's database design (it took them several months to spot this issue and fix it).

[cezanne]

 

Terracaching offered an alternative, a supposed emphasis on "high quality" caches. I give them a nice try.

 

OX from day one was about taking from Groundspeak. What was telling was that they not only allowed cross listing of caches they also allowed mass import of found it logs. That bizarre feature was implemented before simple things like log notifications, owner deletion capability and the ability to add photos. That told me that from day one their goal was not to offer an alternative, but to kill Groundspeak.

 

The issue of is a whole lot more complex. There are valid reasons for encounraging crosslistings that do not are born out of the wish to kill Groundspeak.

I do not like Garmin's site.

 

When the opencaching network started with opencaching.de started one of the central goals was to offer a cache platform which is open source which easily allows people to come up with new tools (again in the open source) and do provide tools for downloading all cache data. It took Groundspeak many, many years to come up with their API and this API cannot be used in open source software (and this will not change due to Groundspeak's philosophy).

 

I know many cachers (I belong to that group) who uploaded their caches to opencaching.de out of sympathy for the open source community. (Later when a German hiking club took over the legal responsability over opencaching.de this costed them quite some sympathies - recently opencaching.de became independent again, however.)

 

The support for Unix/Linux etc people in Groundspeak's world is very bad. There had been some hope that the support in an open source community could be better which however worked out only to some extent.

 

 

Cezanne

[+Manville Possum]

Yes, but you should have posted a disclaimer that you are the master troll on the Opencaching.com Forums.

 

They could hold their events in a phone booth.

 

Please don't "Stone" me for laughing. A&T is an admitted cheerleader of the site, and a phone booth? A Port-o-let is more realistic, you can't rent phone booths can you?

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I wish one of you tech savvy guys could do a comparison between TC & OX. I'll eat a bug* if the nearly DEAD TC site doesn't have more unique caches than OX. The numbers already quoted in this thread point toward it. More reason for the powers that be at OX to sit up and take notice. Hey, maybe they can buy TC and NC to get some more original listings.

 

They have to have way more. They started in late 2004! I don't think there is a way to tell though, other than going to every TC page, and clicking on the nearby Groundspeak caches link. I suppose this process could be automated. I can tell you there are a lot of cross-listings, despite the no cross-listing rule. For example, most TC's in Ontario, Canada are cross-listings. You didn't hear that from me though. EDIT: Looks like one guy archived about 15 cross-listed. It may not be fair to say "most" any more. But still quite a few.

 

 

OX from day one was about taking from Groundspeak. What was telling was that they not only allowed cross listing of caches they also allowed mass import of found it logs. That bizarre feature was implemented before simple things like log notifications, owner deletion capability and the ability to add photos. That told me that from day one their goal was not to offer an alternative, but to kill Groundspeak.

 

Yeah sure. They couldn't figure out how to make a website that notifies you when a log entry is posted to your cache, but they were smart enough to figure out the importation of find logs and cache listings.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Mr.Yuck

[+Snoogans]

 

I wish one of you tech savvy guys could do a comparison between TC & OX. I'll eat a bug* if the nearly DEAD TC site doesn't have more unique caches than OX. The numbers already quoted in this thread point toward it. More reason for the powers that be at OX to sit up and take notice. Hey, maybe they can buy TC and NC to get some more original listings.

 

They have to have way more. They started in late 2004! I don't think there is a way to tell though, other than going to every TC page, and clicking on the nearby Groundspeak caches link. I suppose this process could be automated. I can tell you there are a lot of cross-listings, despite the no cross-listing rule. For example, most TC's in Ontario, Canada are cross-listings. You didn't hear that from me though.

 

 

I don't make a bet to eat a bug lightly. I figured that would have to be the case.

 

I was a charter member at TC and even on the leaderboard for quite awhile as a quality hider.

 

Yeah, I knew there were crosslistings, but the culture strongly discouraged it. Especially 2004 to 2006 when I was really active there. Crosslisting caches was considered extremely cheesy and lazy here locally. Too bad TC built it all around an easily manipulated scoring and rating system. That was 60% of my reason to abandon my efforts there after I was asked to shut up about my observations, because I was influencing the other sheeple.

[+nthacker66]

For two minutes I was thinking: "Hmm... it might be a nice idea for GS to offer thank you gifts to people who have placed a certain number of caches." But then my common sense kicked in and told me that would be terrible. How many people would just chuck down whatever type of container in whatever type of place just so they could get some froggie swag?

 

If a competing site wants to increase their hide numbers that way, I think they are going to gain a reputation in the long term for listing lousy caches.

 

I would have to respectfully disagree with the last sentence. Not if that site had different listing standards (e.g. terracaching) where the community decides, and quality over quantity is required. One can easily say Groundspeak as a listing service is promoting "lousy" caches where saturation and power trails for sheer numbers are over taking quality caches.

 

Overall, I see no issue with any other listing service enticing cachers to use them. I would love to see a viable alternative to Groundspeak with a good number of caches. Does it mean I will not hide or seek caches listed by Groundspeak? No way. I love geocaching.com, even if I have my qualms about certain things, they still delivery a high quality product that I am very happy with.

[+ArtieD]

A&T is an admitted cheerleader of the site

 

Since when? OC.com is a piece of crap site populated by disgruntled and banned GC.com members. It would please me greatly to see it fail.

 

Manny, put down the shine and think before you post.

[Mr.Yuck]

A&T is an admitted cheerleader of the site

 

Since when? OC.com is a piece of crap site populated by disgruntled and banned GC.com members. It would please me greatly to see it fail.

 

Manny, put down the shine and think before you post.

 

I think he was being sarcastic. It's nice to see you and "Manny" trading barbs here, including put down the Moonshine. Just like over there.

[fendmar]

At the risk of inflaming the greenies! Come with me on a journey of imagination and wonder. Suppose GI has decided their future is geocaching and the only way to save their company is to make that other site a success. (Stay with me!) They now put the full re$ource$ of a multi-national corporation into that site in an attempt to squash GC as flat as a proverbial TB. (Imagery used for the humor not to indicate any bias! I do miss my TB's!) So now to entice people to host events they start showering them with freebies and doorprizes as well as paying the costs of those events. Now say they launch a national advertising campaign to raise awareness for those events. (Can't remember the last time I saw a GS logo during prime time TV! Just a point to keep things in perspective! However, there is the possibility that this isn't part of GS's marketing strategy.) Does anyone think a phone booth would be large enough to host one such event? How does this scenario play out for GS, could they survive such an onslaught? (I can see some benefits...at first!)

 

I suppose the point of this is that the public is a fickle group with fleeting loyalties. No one can predict which direction the herd will move. (Allthough big $ marketing makes a good effort to push them!) Anyone remember a little thing called MySpace? If you don't I would say search Yahoo! for it, but most of you would probably just Google it!

 

That blog link was interesting, but, dare I say; IMO it's not exactly detached journalism! (It's the type that's hard for me to read so regardless of my personal feelings, I usually quit reading as soon as it becomes apparent the author has an agenda and question their motivations and integrity! But...that's just me!)

[+Snoogans]

At the risk of inflaming the greenies! Come with me on a journey of imagination and wonder. Suppose GI has decided their future is geocaching and the only way to save their company is to make that other site a success. (Stay with me!) They now put the full re$ource$ of a multi-national corporation into that site in an attempt to squash GC as flat as a proverbial TB. (Imagery used for the humor not to indicate any bias! I do miss my TB's!) So now to entice people to host events they start showering them with freebies and doorprizes as well as paying the costs of those events. Now say they launch a national advertising campaign to raise awareness for those events. (Can't remember the last time I saw a GS logo during prime time TV! Just a point to keep things in perspective! However, there is the possibility that this isn't part of GS's marketing strategy.) Does anyone think a phone booth would be large enough to host one such event? How does this scenario play out for GS, could they survive such an onslaught? (I can see some benefits...at first!)

 

I suppose the point of this is that the public is a fickle group with fleeting loyalties. No one can predict which direction the herd will move. (Allthough big $ marketing makes a good effort to push them!) Anyone remember a little thing called MySpace? If you don't I would say search Yahoo! for it, but most of you would probably just Google it!

 

That blog link was interesting, but, dare I say; IMO it's not exactly detached journalism! (It's the type that's hard for me to read so regardless of my personal feelings, I usually quit reading as soon as it becomes apparent the author has an agenda and question their motivations and integrity! But...that's just me!)

 

I don't know if the ends would justify the means for GI... I would expect to have seen a greater showing from the Garmin tent at GWX if that were truly what's in store.

 

Am I to understand from your first paragraph that you have gone full on OX? This is news to me, but then again, I don't think I've seen you around since we had dinner after the Texas Challenge in 2011...

[+ArtieD]

Of course now there's a thread on their forums thanking us for the free advertisement.

[fendmar]

I don't know if the ends would justify the means for GI... I would expect to have seen a greater showing from the Garmin tent at GWX if that were truly what's in store.

 

Am I to understand from your first paragraph that you have gone full on OX? This is news to me, but then again, I don't think I've seen you around since we had dinner after the Texas Challenge in 2011...

As far as the ends justifying the means for GI, remember in this scenario geocaching is the future and the future of their company depends on the success of that other site.

 

With regards to full on OX/OC; no, I cannot emphasize enough, I have no dog in this fight. (Not even registered over there, but probably will be soon thanks to this thread!)Just trying to keep things in perspective!

 

(I do kinda like abbreviating them as OX, they should have used that for their mascot!)

[+Packanack]

If they really wanted to generate interest they should have called their site Virtual Caching. com and listed only virtuals. Now that would get them going in a big hurry.

[+Snoogans]

Of course now there's a thread on their forums thanking us for the free advertisement.

 

Link? I just looked and didn't see anything...

[fendmar]

If they really wanted to generate interest they should have called their site Virtual Caching. com and listed only virtuals. Now that would get them going in a big hurry.

Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are!

[+Snoogans]

(I do kinda like abbreviating them as OX, they should have used that for their mascot!)

 

Yeah their mascot is kinda odd, I must admit. Babe the blue ox would be a better mascot huh?

 

I finally adopted the OX as I read further. At least it helps distinguish between OC & OX.

 

They chose a confusing name and followed up with a mascot that is just confused. A blue squirrel like creature. Skavenja (does anyone even remember them?) used a squirrel as a mascot too. As I recall theirs looked a bit like Scrat from the Ice Age movies.

[+Manville Possum]

A&T is an admitted cheerleader of the site

 

Since when? OC.com is a piece of crap site populated by disgruntled and banned GC.com members. It would please me greatly to see it fail.

 

Manny, put down the shine and think before you post.

 

Since when Chile-Head called you a cheerleader and you responded "I am. You should see my skirt." in the Some Problems thread, it's still there.

I'm not a banned or disgruntled member of this site. I use four different geocaching sites and Waymarking. This is the only one that I pay to use, I enjoy the PQ's here.

[+ArtieD]

Of course now there's a thread on their forums thanking us for the free advertisement.

 

Link? I just looked and didn't see anything...

 

I'm sorry...I misspoke. There are comments about this thread in the "New promotion, earn a pathtag" thread...

 

In other news, the spineless moderator Trailtech banned my primary account for a whole year today for spreading the truth about their site on their forums. Little does he know I have about half a dozen sockpuppets.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Arthur & Trillian

[Keystone Light]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

Do you have something against Garmin, or are against any company having a presence at a "GC.com listed event"? How about all those vendors at GW that sell competing items to GS's Store? Should they be banned from any event not put on (and promoted only) by themselves? Remember events are open to any and all cachers, whoever they work for.

The man is obsessed with Garmins site because of the rejection from a bunch of losers and disgruntled banned members of this site. It first started with Cav Scout, then MPH. It seems to be a weird fetish for Service men that are members of the site, but he blames Garmin.

[+ArtieD]

As low as offering bribes for cross listing caches there is, I find it even more pathetic that they come to GC.Com listed events to try to drum up support for their site.

 

Oh yes...they did that very thing at this past MOGA event. I know they passed out a crapton of t-shirts to pimp their site.

 

The most pathetic thing they tried to do was to host an event to promote their site (under the guise of a meet and greet to meet "gps industry professionals") here in GC.com...they had the original event listing archived because it was pretty blatant. They resubmitted it without any company ID and it got published. Why it got published I will never know. Supposedly they "promised" Groundspeak they would not pimp their site at the event...even though it was still apparent what their aim for the event was.

 

If Garmin had any scruples at all, they would host their own events at their own times instead of piggybacking on GC.com...

Do you have something against Garmin, or are against any company having a presence at a "GC.com listed event"? How about all those vendors at GW that sell competing items to GS's Store? Should they be banned from any event not put on (and promoted only) by themselves? Remember events are open to any and all cachers, whoever they work for.

The man is obsessed with Garmins site because of the rejection from a bunch of losers and disgruntled banned members of this site. It first started with Cav Scout, then MPH. It seems to be a weird fetish for Service men that are members of the site, but he blames Garmin.

 

Yep, you got me. It sure has nothing to do with Garmin promoting their site at events hosted by other listing services instead of hosting their own, leeching data from other sites instead of producing their own data like Terracaching.com or the trainwreck that is peer review there. No, it's all about some users best left forgotten in the annals of geocaching.

 

Go back to the Opencaching forums, Keystone Light...your blind loyalty and cheerleading are needed by Garmin.

[+ChileHead]

In other news, the spineless moderator Trailtech banned my primary account for a whole year today for spreading the truth about their site on their forums. Little does he know I have about half a dozen sockpuppets.

 

Too funny, since when Opie's site first started up the misfits there would rag on the moderators here for banning them for a few days or a week, and how much better it was over there since it was not moderated and censored. Then you tell it like it is (maybe a bit harshly) and you get a year off.

[+ArtieD]

In other news, the spineless moderator Trailtech banned my primary account for a whole year today for spreading the truth about their site on their forums. Little does he know I have about half a dozen sockpuppets.

 

Too funny, since when Opie's site first started up the misfits there would rag on the moderators here for banning them for a few days or a week, and how much better it was over there since it was not moderated and censored. Then you tell it like it is (maybe a bit harshly) and you get a year off.

 

Funny how that works.

 

In other news, our resident Opencaching spy Manville Possum Hunters has already reported back to headquarters about me being banned...

 

"Word up in the GC.com forums in the thread about Garmin bribing people for listings from A&T is that TrailTech banned his main account here for a year, so BOLO for a new member spewing hate about our site or messing with peer review."

Edited June 6, 2012 by Arthur & Trillian