OK Old schoolers

[+Snoogans]

...I do agree the "trashcan" attribute would be a good one. If it was added, I wonder how many hiders would admit their cache is attached to the dumpster behind a shopping center.

 

I'd use it just to prove a point. That being my caches would all get filtered out by the discriminating cache snobs and only those who spend some time thinking about their finds would figure out that some of my caches are worth finding.

 

Of course I'm a Ted Kooser fan and like the Irony of these kinds of things.

 

 

I would probably add a lightpole attribute to all of my caches in the Sierras to prove the same point. As it is, I over value the terrain and difficulty on some of my best caches just to keep unprepared folks that want an effortless cache away. An unprepared person could find themself in a bad way on many of my caches at certain times of the year while other times of the year, the same cache could be fairly easy. I recently put this warning on my latest hide in the Sierras: An attempt in winter could net you a Donner Party style caching experience.

 

 

I know of someone that uses the abandoned mine nearby attribute on all their caches just because they like it. I wonder how often theirs are filtered out....

[vagabond]

...We have a stray cat in the neighborhood. It's a scrawny gray thing that gets stuff thrown at it whenever it shows up.

 

In the chain of command, I'm right below the cat.

 

What's the cat throw at you when you show up?

 

On topic.

 

Ratings are for sissies. If you need ratings you ain't worthy of old school.

This from an old schooler....what say the rest?

agreed

Agreed

[+angevine]

Okay. I spend a lot of time telling myself and anyone who will listen tht the game is played a lt of different ways, and that making value judgments about how other people do is is sort of like trying to teach a pig to sing -- you don't get anywhere and it really annoys the pig. Or, to be more accurate, you annoy yourself.

 

And I do believe that. I really do.

 

Thisg is, reading this thread, I also have to agree that "once upon a time" caches were exciting to find. Now I go out caching and find joy in other things -- in a pleasant walk or a nice day, in being with my husband or stepkids, in getting some exercise. Not in the cache itself.

 

I've been on the radio a fair amount recently, talking about geocaching, and more and more I realize that I'm talking to people who have never tried this and I'm describing "treasure" that's hidden out there, and I'm being completely misleading now in four times out of five. Seems to me the odds used to be higher -- and I haven't been in the hobby *that* long! So the deterioration in both cool cache sites and cool cache contents has been pretty rapid.

 

-- Jeannette

[+Logscaler and Red]

...We have a stray cat in the neighborhood. It's a scrawny gray thing that gets stuff thrown at it whenever it shows up.

 

In the chain of command, I'm right below the cat.

 

What's the cat throw at you when you show up?

 

On topic.

 

Ratings are for sissies. If you need ratings you ain't worthy of old school.

 

Agreed

[Cracker.]

 

Ratings are for sissies. If you need ratings you ain't worthy of old school.

This from an old schooler....what say the rest?

 

Hear, Hear...

[+wavector]

Ok, now bear with me here...I see your point, but do you really, truly think that with the number of people in the game now, and the vast difference in peronalities, that this would have honestly played any significant role in the actual overall integrity of the game and the quality of caches?

 

I would think that just the sheer volume of people playing would've contributed to the current problem outside of any perception that the numbers themselves are responsible....and I am not trying to negate your point, because your concern for numbers I think is valid, I am just not sure that it's the ultimate solution to the actual integrity of the game and quality of the caches.

 

You are entirely correct, the number of people geocaching is growing rapidly and the solution I offered wouldn't change that but decreasing the website emphasis on quantity would change this activity. If you are familiar with the fizzymagic growth graphs you can see what is going to happen, LOTS more people are going to start geocaching in the future. De-emphasizing the importance of numbers by removing the seekers Find count from the cache logs would have a major impact on this activity and it would be a postive change, this is my opinion.

Moving the "numbers" from the foreground to the background would mean that cache logs would be just that, cache logs, they would not be a display of a seekers Find count. People would still enjoy the activity of finding caches but logging a cache would just be writing a log, nothing else, they would still be incrementing a count but it would be in the background rather than displayed on another geocacher's cache page.

I think this would have a salutary effect on every aspect of this activity. Logging a cache is half the activity of geocaching, the other half is finding geocaches. Changing the way a basic element like logging works would change the dynamics of this activity for all new geocachers and for many now geocaching. Everyone would ultimately benefit by a decrease in the website emphasis on quantity because many new geocacheers are going to be starting as time goes by. In the old days a geocache was hidden for the simple reason that a hider wanted to hide something that someone else could find, the emphasis on numbers wasn't driving that decision.

De-emphasizing the importance of Find and Hide numbers by removing the seekers Find count from the cache logs and moving the Stat box into the Geocaches area of a users profile would open up this activity for the casual enjoyment of all and this will become important as the public profile of geocaching increases and more and more people try it out.

[+TrailGators]

Ok, now bear with me here...I see your point, but do you really, truly think that with the number of people in the game now, and the vast difference in peronalities, that this would have honestly played any significant role in the actual overall integrity of the game and the quality of caches?

 

I would think that just the sheer volume of people playing would've contributed to the current problem outside of any perception that the numbers themselves are responsible....and I am not trying to negate your point, because your concern for numbers I think is valid, I am just not sure that it's the ultimate solution to the actual integrity of the game and quality of the caches.

You are entirely correct, the number of people geocaching is growing rapidly and the solution I offered wouldn't change that but decreasing the website emphasis on quantity would change this activity. If you are familiar with the fizzymagic growth graphs you can see what is going to happen, LOTS more people are going to start geocaching in the future. De-emphasizing the importance of numbers by removing the seekers Find count from the cache logs would have a major impact on this activity and it would be a postive change, this is my opinion.

Moving the "numbers" from the foreground to the background would mean that cache logs would be just that, cache logs, they would not be a display of a seekers Find count. People would still enjoy the activity of finding caches but logging a cache would just be writing a log, nothing else, they would still be incrementing a count but it would be in the background rather than displayed on another geocacher's cache page.

I think this would have a salutary effect on every aspect of this activity. Logging a cache is half the activity of geocaching, the other half is finding geocaches. Changing the way a basic element like logging works would change the dynamics of this activity for all new geocachers and for many now geocaching. Everyone would ultimately benefit by a decrease in the website emphasis on quantity because many new geocacheers are going to be starting as time goes by. In the old days a geocache was hidden for the simple reason that a hider wanted to hide something that someone else could find, the emphasis on numbers wasn't driving that decision.

De-emphasizing the importance of Find and Hide numbers by removing the seekers Find count from the cache logs and moving the Stat box into the Geocaches area of a users profile would open up this activity for the casual enjoyment of all and this will become important as the public profile of geocaching increases and more and more people try it out.

I agree with you. I would make my numbers private in a heartbeat.

[+wavector]

I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but personally, removing the find/hide count from the stats bar or the cache pages wouldn't change the way I play the game at all. I don't find a lot of caches because I want to see a big number next to our name-- I find a lot of caches because I LIKE caching, and when you enjoy something, you usually tend to want to do it fairly often. And we don't hide caches because we want to see a big number next to our name-- we hide caches so that other people who like caching will have caches to find, so they can enjoy it too. The numbers that the site tracks are just a residual effect of enjoying geocaching as much as possible, as often as possible, and in as many different ways as possible.

 

I agree with your viewpoint lindychris and I think most geocachers feel the same way but that is just my opinion. The numbers are just that, a residual effect of geocaching, they serve no purpose at all, none whatsoever. Why does this website display a seekers Find count every time a cache is logged?

Just changing that one thing would, I think, create a whole new geocaching world.

People who already love geocaching would see little or no effect from the changes that I suggested but new geocachers would really see a different landscape, the numbers would be gone from the foreground. People who enjoy stats would still have them and they would be there for anyone interested in looking at them but they would be in the background, they wouldn't be there every time a log was written. The current method of displaying every geocacher's Found count on every log they write is, in my opinion, why we have an emphasis on quantity. As soon as a new geocacher logs a cache they see a number beside their name, quantity is highlighted and it cannot be avoided. I believe that the emphasis on quantity is the main reason that caches get placed with little or no forethought. If the emphasis on quantity was diminshed then I believe the quality of the caches being hidden would increase.

[+Renegade Knight]

....I agree with your viewpoint lindychris and I think most geocachers feel the same way but that is just my opinion. The numbers are just that, a residual effect of geocaching, they serve no purpose at all, none whatsoever. Why does this website display a seekers Find count every time a cache is logged? ...

 

Hitting milestons is fun. Competing with my friends back when we had real stats was fun. I cached more often when numbers were "bigger". It was a lot of fun to raid my friends town and find all the caches and pass him up as king of the town. He'd do the same to me and enjoyed that. Numbers did nothing but give us one more way to enjoy this.

 

Numbers don't hurt those who don't care about them, and give those wo do like them more options for fun.

 

The only trend I see is that some people who don't like numbers tend to like to blame numbers for some of the things they don't like.

[+Logscaler and Red]

I agree with you. I would make my numbers private in a heartbeat.

 

As I understand it you don't want any numbers.

 

That is real easy to do now if you think about it.

 

IF your not interested in a find count, then just log the cache using a "Note".

 

Use a program like GSAK where you can filter the PQ's to edit the files so as to not load anything that you have already found.

 

Problem solved.

 

And this makes 1000 replies in 6 years.

 

Now to go back to lurking and shaking my head at some of the drivel on these pages.

 

Don't take that wrong.

 

There is a lot of good information posted but I get tired of subjects that the PO seems to have an answer in mind already yet ask an "innocent" question or starts an "innocent" thread and tries to get people to come around to his/her line of thinking.

 

The simple answer that I see is to send your "new and improved" idea to Jeremy and see what his reply is.

 

I guess that is one more bit of advise that I would pass along to newbies.

 

When reading these forums.

 

Learn to sort the Wheat from the Chaff.

 

TTFRN.

 

Logscaler.

Edited May 19, 2007 by logscaler & Red

[+TrailGators]

I agree with you. I would make my numbers private in a heartbeat.

My comment was made to say that if they ever add this option I would use it. Is that OK with you?

As I understand it you don't want any numbers. That is real easy to do now if you think about it. IF your not interested in a find count, then just log the cache using a "Note". Use a program like GSAK where you can filter the PQ's to edit the files so as to not load anything that you have already found. Problem solved.

The really smart solution would be to quit logging altogether. Anyhow, my point in saying that was if they had this feature I would use it.

 

Congrats on 1000 posts by the way!

Edited May 19, 2007 by TrailGators

[vtmtnman]

 

Now to go back to lurking and shaking my head at some of the drivel on these pages.

 

Don't take that wrong.

 

There is a lot of good information posted but I get tired of subjects that the PO seems to have an answer in mind already yet ask an "innocent" question or starts an "innocent" thread and tries to get people to come around to his/her line of thinking.

 

Please don't misinterpret why I started this thread.My intent was genuine.I've already learned quite a bit from the posts in here.

[+The Jester]

I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but personally, removing the find/hide count from the stats bar or the cache pages wouldn't change the way I play the game at all. I don't find a lot of caches because I want to see a big number next to our name-- I find a lot of caches because I LIKE caching, and when you enjoy something, you usually tend to want to do it fairly often. And we don't hide caches because we want to see a big number next to our name-- we hide caches so that other people who like caching will have caches to find, so they can enjoy it too. The numbers that the site tracks are just a residual effect of enjoying geocaching as much as possible, as often as possible, and in as many different ways as possible.

 

I agree with your viewpoint lindychris and I think most geocachers feel the same way but that is just my opinion. The numbers are just that, a residual effect of geocaching, they serve no purpose at all, none whatsoever. Why does this website display a seekers Find count every time a cache is logged?

Just changing that one thing would, I think, create a whole new geocaching world.

People who already love geocaching would see little or no effect from the changes that I suggested but new geocachers would really see a different landscape, the numbers would be gone from the foreground. People who enjoy stats would still have them and they would be there for anyone interested in looking at them but they would be in the background, they wouldn't be there every time a log was written. The current method of displaying every geocacher's Found count on every log they write is, in my opinion, why we have an emphasis on quantity. As soon as a new geocacher logs a cache they see a number beside their name, quantity is highlighted and it cannot be avoided. I believe that the emphasis on quantity is the main reason that caches get placed with little or no forethought. If the emphasis on quantity was diminshed then I believe the quality of the caches being hidden would increase.

I guess I don't see the same connection you do. Trying to up your find count by placing caches??? I also was around when the site took away the numbers, just like you're asking, and the ruckus that came about with that. The people that really want their numbers out there would just post " Find #1,282 blah, blah, blah", so newbies would still see people tracking their numbers and would want to do the same. Many more threads would be started "Who has the highest find count" and "Why can't I see my find count". Besides, this change would only affect those who aren't caching yet, not the million or so who are currently caching. How are you going to change their way of thinking/doing (not that I agree they do need to change)?

[+TrailGators]

I've already learned quite a bit from the posts in here.

What have you learned? I was going to suggest that if you want to go back in time with geocaching just visit some area where it hasn't taken off yet. If you want to see what it will be like in the future where you live then visit some super dense cache area. I'm not sure which area has the highest density.... Edited May 19, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Logscaler and Red]

The really smart solution would be to quit logging altogether. Anyhow, my point in saying that was if they had this feature I would use it. Is that OK with you?

 

For the first part, I know of cachers who have never logged a "found it" in the 6 years they have been caching. A choice they made for personal reasons.

 

For the second part, Fine by me.

 

The option of showing or not showing your log count is a valid one I would vote for.

 

Maybe that is one thing Jeremy could or will implement in V2 to come out next year. Get your request in now before the rush.

 

My main point in all my comments to this thread is I have not read anything "New" here that had not been hashed through before in one form or another.

 

They all came to naught as I fear this thread will. Yes, the ideas are worth merit and need discussed but unless the PTB want to change, it matters not what goes on in these threads.

 

I still suggest that any ideas for improvement to the GC site that have any merit worth opening a thread for should be worth the effort of first starting with Jeremy.

 

Or one of his lackeys.

 

To be "On Topic", a comment to newbies is that as an "Old School" cacher, I have taken my own advise before and sent Jeremy an e-mail when ever I had a question, idea or request. He is not beyond answering e-mails. But you have to be willing to sent them.

 

Logscaler.

[vtmtnman]

What have you learned?

I'd answer that but last time I was set up to be laughed at,so that's not going to work this time.I know what I've learned.Somethings eveyone will agree too and some that people would take offense at.

[+TrailGators]

What have you learned?

I'd answer that but last time I was set up to be laughed at,so that's not going to work this time.I know what I've learned.Somethings eveyone will agree too and some that people would take offense at.

I'm not like that. I was actually curious...

[vtmtnman]

What have you learned?

I'd answer that but last time I was set up to be laughed at,so that's not going to work this time.I know what I've learned.Somethings eveyone will agree too and some that people would take offense at.

I'm not like that. I was actually curious...

I'll shoot you a PM.

[+TrailGators]

The really smart solution would be to quit logging altogether. Anyhow, my point in saying that was if they had this feature I would use it. Is that OK with you?

 

For the first part, I know of cachers who have never logged a "found it" in the 6 years they have been caching. A choice they made for personal reasons.

 

For the second part, Fine by me.

 

The option of showing or not showing your log count is a valid one I would vote for.

 

Maybe that is one thing Jeremy could or will implement in V2 to come out next year. Get your request in now before the rush.

 

My main point in all my comments to this thread is I have not read anything "New" here that had not been hashed through before in one form or another.

 

They all came to naught as I fear this thread will. Yes, the ideas are worth merit and need discussed but unless the PTB want to change, it matters not what goes on in these threads.

 

I still suggest that any ideas for improvement to the GC site that have any merit worth opening a thread for should be worth the effort of first starting with Jeremy.

 

Or one of his lackeys.

 

To be "On Topic", a comment to newbies is that as an "Old School" cacher, I have taken my own advise before and sent Jeremy an e-mail when ever I had a question, idea or request. He is not beyond answering e-mails. But you have to be willing to sent them.

 

Logscaler.

I'm just one voice in the stadium. Heck, we've got enough cachers to fill up 20 stadiums. TPTB are going to do things based on what's good for business. It seems to be going very well for them. It will be fun to see how the site changes over time.

[CoyoteRed]

...I do agree the "trashcan" attribute would be a good one. If it was added, I wonder how many hiders would admit their cache is attached to the dumpster behind a shopping center.

I'd use it just to prove a point. That being my caches would all get filtered out by the discriminating cache snobs and only those who spend some time thinking about their finds would figure out that some of my caches are worth finding.

I'd figure you simply didn't want folks who don't like dumpster caches finding it and oblige you.

 

Kind of goes with my notion that if this site allowed me to deny a find increment on a Found It log on a one of my caches those folks who chase smilies wouldn't hunt my caches. That's perfectly fine by me. Why? Because I put the cache out for enjoyment of the cache, not a smilie increment. It's not a "gift" so you can rack up points.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I do agree the "trashcan" attribute would be a good one. If it was added, I wonder how many hiders would admit their cache is attached to the dumpster behind a shopping center.

I'd use it just to prove a point. That being my caches would all get filtered out by the discriminating cache snobs and only those who spend some time thinking about their finds would figure out that some of my caches are worth finding.

I'd figure you simply didn't want folks who don't like dumpster caches finding it and oblige you.

 

Kind of goes with my notion that if this site allowed me to deny a find increment on a Found It log on a one of my caches those folks who chase smilies wouldn't hunt my caches. That's perfectly fine by me. Why? Because I put the cache out for enjoyment of the cache, not a smilie increment. It's not a "gift" so you can rack up points.

 

Please expain how "Fun" is different from "Fun" because it appears that you only like some folks to find your caches who have the first type, but not who you suspect are having the second type.

 

Ironicly by obliging me, you would not be using your brain when it comes to caching to increase your fun, and you would not be any better than the numbers runners that you don't like. The ones who have that second kind of fun.

 

As for the find incriment on your caches. I'd probably only hunt the caches of yours that have become legendary since finding your caches would muck up my milestones. After 1000 caches most of them are about medium and the fun is the activity and the company and not so much any one cache.

 

Long story short (and changing tack) ratings, trash can attributes, no numbers, no find count increment, are all mechanical aids for an organic problem. They can help, but still need judgment from the person using the tools.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[Neos2]

I agree with your viewpoint lindychris and I think most geocachers feel the same way but that is just my opinion. The numbers are just that, a residual effect of geocaching, they serve no purpose at all, none whatsoever. Why does this website display a seekers Find count every time a cache is logged?

Ah but there you are wrong my friend, the numbers serve many purposes, and I am constantly amazed by anyone who claims they only serve to spark competition and controversy.

 

Your home likely has numbers posted on it. Are they there to create competition to see who can have the most houses on their street? Is your house better than house number 10 because it is number 12? No, they are there to identify the location of that one home.

 

I do genealogy. We write out our families this way:

Generation 1:

father & mother names

Generation 2:

2.1 child name

2.2 child name

2.3 child name

Generation 3:

child 2.1

2.1.1 granchild name

2.1.2 grandchild name

 

and so forth...do we do that so we can compete to see which family has the gretest number of descendents? No, we do that to keep track of the relationships in the family and when they were born etc

 

You likely have a social security number. Is your number better because it is higher than someone with a lower number? No, it is just a way to track you and keep your records attached to your history.

 

Numbers in geocaching also serve to keep track of the history of the geocacher who created that list. They are really only useful to the person who created them, because there are so many varialbe associated with the actual things being represented (difficulty level, individual health conditions, age, etc).

 

You can't compare the caching experiences of a 50 year old man with a fear of heights and flying, a bad back, a painful limp and bad eyesight with a 20 year old female scuba enthusist who flies her own plane and loves to do night caches in foreign countries by looking at their numbers. He may have 200 earned in one year all near his home and rated less than 2/2 and she may have 16 for the same year, but scattered around the world and all 4/4s.

 

So by the way who is the better cacher? The numbers don't tell you that at all. And neither does the explanation. Even that is pretty subjective--You might actually admire the male example over the female, because he is working much harder to achieve what he has accomplished.

 

And would the two of them see each other as rivals? Would they try to compare their experiences to each other? I think not. You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition. The numbers are just there to keep track of the order you did them.

[+TrailGators]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

[vtmtnman]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

I just can't help but think of BrianSnat's trashcan icon....

 

Sorry...Couldn't resist.

[+TrailGators]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

I just can't help but think of BrianSnat's trashcan icon....

 

Sorry...Couldn't resist.

We could have this icon for people that always make ice cream analogies with geocaching.....

[Neos2]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

Hey, I actually like that idea with a slight modification. There isn't a realistic way to compete with everyone else (see my last post or the discussion below) but I know a couple of people that actually do have friendly competitions going and I'm sure they would like to be able to opt to link to each other to have an "official" competition tally showing on their profiles. I doubt gc would go for it, though.

 

Of course, it's my opinion that it's almost impossible to use the gc numbers to really compete with another cacher on a truely level playing field. Too many variables--health of the competitors, the kinds of caches selected, the weather conditions in two different places, the exact traffic conditions, random events (wrecks that block your path to the cache, illness of family member, etc), and so on and so forth. But if the two (or more) principle players can agree on a set of guidelines, handicaps, whatevers, and opt to ignore the rest of the uncontrollable extraneous events...then they could really have some fun with an auto-ticker for some short-term competitions.

[vtmtnman]

As I've heard mentioned before,alot of folks use the numbers in reguards to a cacher's experience level,like when they get a DNF log.

[vtmtnman]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

I just can't help but think of BrianSnat's trashcan icon....

 

Sorry...Couldn't resist.

We could have this icon for people that always make ice cream analogies with geocaching.....

[+Renegade Knight]

As I've heard mentioned before,alot of folks use the numbers in reguards to a cacher's experience level,like when they get a DNF log.

I do. It's helpful. Plus there are certain caches that if they have found would help them find one of my (adopted out) caches. Thus if I knew what area they were from I could have a fair idea if they should have found my cache or had a rought time.

[+wavector]

I guess I don't see the same connection you do. Trying to up your find count by placing caches??? I also was around when the site took away the numbers, just like you're asking, and the ruckus that came about with that. The people that really want their numbers out there would just post " Find #1,282 blah, blah, blah", so newbies would still see people tracking their numbers and would want to do the same. Many more threads would be started "Who has the highest find count" and "Why can't I see my find count". Besides, this change would only affect those who aren't caching yet, not the million or so who are currently caching. How are you going to change their way of thinking/doing (not that I agree they do need to change)?

 

I can personally attest to the fact that I don't think people need to change, change is inevitable.

The conventional connection between the Finds and Hides is the Stats box which is on the main account page. The Stats box lists just those two numbers and they really appear to be "official stats". The seekers Find count is posted on every geocache log, people have to look into a profile to see the Hide count.

I think the number of people geocaching today is quite small compared to the number of people who are going to try it in the future. Removing the seekers Find count from the cache log and placing the Stats box into the background wouldn't affect the stats but for those trying this activity it would create a new view of the starting gate, evincing adventures instead of laps. New geocachers quickly discover that they can't just log a cache, every log they write must start with a running count of the total number of caches they have "Found", this is the website emphasizing "numbers".

 

Even today there is no way to tell who has the highest Find count beyond outside sources that track that information, people who want to know have to ask or go looking because this website doesn't offer a ranking system so in that regard nothing would change. I don't see any issues with some users posting their Find count in every log, people do that today to keep track of the order in which they find caches because this website only posts your current total Found count. The importance of the "total caches Found" count is further emphasized by being changed and updated on every log written every time a new cache is logged.

All geocachers look at the same two stats, Finds and Hides, they are related and they are emphasized by this website. The stats exist and they are an endless source of data that is often interesting and revealing, I have no objection to numbers or Stats, I think the problem is geocache placements that are driven by the website emphasis on the numbers. This problem is related to the sheer number of people caching so it will probably get worse in the future but I think it is exacerbated by the fact that many people feel they need to Hide caches because that number is one of the Stats being emphasized. I think we would all benefit from de-emphasizing the importance of numbers.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Hey, I actually like that idea with a slight modification. There isn't a realistic way to compete with everyone else (see my last post or the discussion below) but I know a couple of people that actually do have friendly competitions going and I'm sure they would like to be able to opt to link to each other to have an "official" competition tally showing on their profiles. I doubt gc would go for it, though.

 

Of course, it's my opinion that it's almost impossible to use the gc numbers to really compete with another cacher on a truely level playing field. Too many variables--health of the competitors, the kinds of caches selected, the weather conditions in two different places, the exact traffic conditions, random events (wrecks that block your path to the cache, illness of family member, etc), and so on and so forth. But if the two (or more) principle players can agree on a set of guidelines, handicaps, whatevers, and opt to ignore the rest of the uncontrollable extraneous events...then they could really have some fun with an auto-ticker for some short-term competitions.

 

The problem with opting in and out of stats is that it mucks things up. It's no good if I set out to have the most finds (ignore that someone else may have more time into caching, that's another stat we can't yet measure...) if the one who actually has the most finds has "opted out". In that scenario I'd look, see I was #1 beat my chest an claim the gold only to have a forum doofie point out. "oh but I know so and so who actually has 20,000 more than you do, they just don't compete, but you are not number 1." So much for wind in those sails.

 

Also and just as important there are a lot of non stats things you can do with the information neeced for the stats. You could see who was caching in your area. Who the newbies are. Read the most recent logs on teh caches so you can see what's happening. See your friends route as they went about their day. Sort caches by rank, order, attributes, most finds, lead finss, middle finds and any other way to spin this game out.

 

Lastly with stats you can flip things around. CAn't be #1, be King of the 5 star hides. King of your town, King of The Mountain tops, Queen of finding the least found caches ,etc. Even if you aren't into the competition angle of these kinds of states, you can't even seek out these kinds of caches just for fun. Who keeps the list of the least found caches? There isn't one, yet I rather like those kinds of caches. I also like the oens that have a bunch of DNF's in a row but which are still there. I get a kick out of finding what can't be found. But you can't spin those out without a way to track those numbers.

 

Personally I think the stats and numbers should be broken out a thousand ways so everone has more optoins on more way to enjoy this activity.

[CoyoteRed]

Please expain how "Fun" is different from "Fun" because it appears that you only like some folks to find your caches who have the first type, but not who you suspect are having the second type.

Well, I put out an effort to entertain the finder. I want folks to enjoy my effort. I want them to appreciate the cache for what it is. So, I suppose you're right.

 

The "other type" would be just as pleased hunting random waypoints as long as they get a smilie for their effort. The focus is not on the cache, but what that cache gives them here on this site. Folks seem to have tried to accommodate this other type by essentially placing random caches in convenient places with little real-world redeeming value--they even make it so nothing extraneous, like trinkets, get in the way.

[+Kit Fox]

Please expain how "Fun" is different from "Fun" because it appears that you only like some folks to find your caches who have the first type, but not who you suspect are having the second type.

Well, I put out an effort to entertain the finder. I want folks to enjoy my effort. I want them to appreciate the cache for what it is. So, I suppose you're right.

 

The "other type" would be just as pleased hunting random waypoints as long as they get a smilie for their effort. The focus is not on the cache, but what that cache gives them here on this site. Folks seem to have tried to accommodate this other type by essentially placing random caches in convenient places with little real-world redeeming value--they even make it so nothing extraneous, like trinkets, get in the way.

 

These are the same people who don't have the time to bother by writing logs other than TNSL TFTC.

[+TrailGators]

Please expain how "Fun" is different from "Fun" because it appears that you only like some folks to find your caches who have the first type, but not who you suspect are having the second type.

Well, I put out an effort to entertain the finder. I want folks to enjoy my effort. I want them to appreciate the cache for what it is. So, I suppose you're right.

 

The "other type" would be just as pleased hunting random waypoints as long as they get a smilie for their effort. The focus is not on the cache, but what that cache gives them here on this site. Folks seem to have tried to accommodate this other type by essentially placing random caches in convenient places with little real-world redeeming value--they even make it so nothing extraneous, like trinkets, get in the way.

CR these caches are not going away. So we are faced with two totally different styles that at the moment are difficult to segregate using the site. So all we can do is share our knowledge of who these people are that are proliferating these caches, and then use the ignore button to hide all their caches one by one. We can also share our knowledge of who the people are that hide the kewl caches! Edited May 19, 2007 by TrailGators

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

Please expain how "Fun" is different from "Fun" because it appears that you only like some folks to find your caches who have the first type, but not who you suspect are having the second type.

Well, I put out an effort to entertain the finder. I want folks to enjoy my effort. I want them to appreciate the cache for what it is. So, I suppose you're right.

 

The "other type" would be just as pleased hunting random waypoints as long as they get a smilie for their effort. The focus is not on the cache, but what that cache gives them here on this site. Folks seem to have tried to accommodate this other type by essentially placing random caches in convenient places with little real-world redeeming value--they even make it so nothing extraneous, like trinkets, get in the way.

CR these caches are not going away. So we are faced with two totally different styles that at the moment are difficult to segregate using the site. So all we can do is share our knowledge of who these people are that are proliferating these caches, and then use the ignore button to hide all their caches one by one. We can also share our knowledge of who the people are that hide the kewl caches!

While trying to push for additions to the site to make segregating these caches easier...I hope.

[+TrailGators]

I was thinking about some of the caches that are around now that were not around when I started and I thought of an interesting question for you all.

 

Imagine that you are at home doing some chores or yardwork. The phone rings and some guy that you don't know asks you to drive 5 miles into town. He tells you to drive behind a Taco Bell and check out a smelly garbage dumpster. There is no cache there. He just tells you that he thinks it's really fun, and that you should go check it out! Be honest. What would you do?

[+Logscaler and Red]

I was thinking about some of the caches that are around now that were not around when I started and I thought of an interesting question for you all.

 

Imagine that you are at home doing some chores or yardwork. The phone rings and some guy that you don't know asks you to drive 5 miles into town. He tells you to drive behind a Taco Bell and check out a smelly garbage dumpster. There is no cache there. He just tells you that he thinks it's really fun, and that you should go check it out! Be honest. What would you do?

 

Bingo. "Old School" v New caches.

 

Heck of a generalization but pretty much seems to be the direction caching has leaned towards in the last few years. In my opinion anyway.

 

Yes, the first few micros where interesting in a unique way but how many breath mint strip - film can - magnets can you find under a lamp skirt - in a guard rail - under a park bench until you cry uncle?

 

UNLESS there is something of interest to go with it? Historical plaques are all over the place but a lot of them have limited hiding spots. Or you have to make a multi stage cache out of it.

 

But we have also found our share of "Why Here?" caches using ammo cans, buckets, Tupperware, etc, etc.

 

Now to keep in line with the topic: Newbie advice. Place the cache where you would like to send your friends from out of town to see.

 

Logscaler.

[+tozainamboku]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

I just can't help but think of BrianSnat's trashcan icon....

 

Sorry...Couldn't resist.

We could have this icon for people that always make ice cream analogies with geocaching.....

OK

[+The Jester]

I was thinking about some of the caches that are around now that were not around when I started and I thought of an interesting question for you all.

 

Imagine that you are at home doing some chores or yardwork. The phone rings and some guy that you don't know asks you to drive 5 miles into town. He tells you to drive behind a Taco Bell and check out a smelly garbage dumpster. There is no cache there. He just tells you that he thinks it's really fun, and that you should go check it out! Be honest. What would you do?

<That's interesting, where did my reply go????>

 

Edit to add the reply that vanished (that's what I get for leaving the magic wand on!):

 

If I had joined "Do What A Stranger Told Me" I be out the door in a flash - it sounds better than what I'm doing (chores/yardwork). But as I don't play that game, I'd hang up on him.

Edited May 20, 2007 by The Jester

[+TrailGators]

You are only in a competiton with someone else if you choose to be in competition.

This is true. What if they gave you the option of using a cacher atribute that put a little numbers competitor icon next to your name to show others that you are competing? The lack of this icon would also show everyone who's not competing and just enjoys the game for the "other" fun part. Come to think of it, they could have visible cacher attributes for other things as well. Hmmm....

I just can't help but think of BrianSnat's trashcan icon....

 

Sorry...Couldn't resist.

We could have this icon for people that always make ice cream analogies with geocaching.....

OK

I knew you'd like that one Mr. java the huT!

[Neos2]

... many people feel they need to Hide caches because that number is one of the Stats being emphasized. I think we would all benefit from de-emphasizing the importance of numbers.

 

Really? I never thought that I had to hide caches because that is one of the stats...I thought that if I hid caches, then there would be a stat showing how many I had hidden.

 

I don't have to find caches because there are numbers next to my user name either--but if I do, the numbers change so I can see how many I found.

 

I really really really don't understand all this "fear" of numbers. Is this some weird latent effect of a math related trauma, perhaps? It must be the science teacher in me, but I love the numbers and wish there were more. I've been seriously considering adding one of those track-everything-in-sight links to my profile page. I just wish I could find one that I could pick and choose what to show, because they all seem a little cluttered.

 

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Neos2

[CoyoteRed]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

... many people feel they need to Hide caches because that number is one of the Stats being emphasized. I think we would all benefit from de-emphasizing the importance of numbers.

 

Really? I never thought that I had to hide caches because that is one of the stats...I thought that if I hid caches, then there would be a stat showing how many I had hidden.

 

I don't have to find caches because there are numbers next to my user name either--but if I do, the numbers change so I can see how many I found.

 

I really really really don't understand all this "fear" of numbers. Is this some weird latent effect of a math related trauma, perhaps? It must be the science teacher in me, but I love the numbers and wish there were more. I've been seriously considering adding one of those track-everything-in-sight links to my profile page. I just wish I could find one that I could pick and choose what to show, because they all seem a little cluttered.

 

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I wouldnt say it is a fear of numbers.

I believe the theory goes something like this:

1) There are a large and growing percentage of caches in "uninspired" places. These are places that have no real value and are not a place you would want to visit or send someone. The only value with this place is that now someone placed a cache there. (NOTE: This is a theory, at least to me, because I do not know how to do a detailed report showing the number of "uninspired" caches as a percentage of active caches and graph that over time back to the begining of geocaching)

 

2) The reason someone placed this cache in this uninspired location is either:

a) Increasing the number of caches hidden that displays on the web site

Increasing the number of caches so that people can increase the number of caches found easier.

c) both a & b

 

Therefore, numbers recorded on the web site lead to an increase in "uninspired" caches.

(NOTE: Since we will never know the reasons behind why a cache is placed where it is, this is an entirely unprovable theory)

 

One should also extend past this theory to the next theory which is

 

"Uninspired" caches are BAD!!!!

[+Snoogans]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

 

 

I like that too. I wish I had logged my caches in order instead of only logging the outstanding ones and waiting months or even years to log the rest.

[+TrailGators]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

That would have been nice. For a long time, I logged mine in reverse order so they would show up in the right order. But after awhile, I forgot to log some and it screwed up the order. Now it's messed up so I don't care. It is fun to read back through the old logs.

[vtmtnman]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

That would have been nice. For a long time, I logged mine in reverse order so they would show up in the right order. But after awhile, I forgot to log some and it screwed up the order. Now it's messed up so I don't care. It is fun to read back through the old logs.

I think the 4/100 thing would be cool.It's always fun to see where it falls in your personal timeline.

[+TrailGators]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

That would have been nice. For a long time, I logged mine in reverse order so they would show up in the right order. But after awhile, I forgot to log some and it screwed up the order. Now it's messed up so I don't care. It is fun to read back through the old logs.

I think the 4/100 thing would be cool.It's always fun to see where it falls in your personal timeline.

If it just said "4," it would be cool. I don't need the "/100" part. I actually thought it would work that way when I first started. That way seems very easy to implement. Edited May 20, 2007 by TrailGators

[Clan Riffster]

I really really really don't understand all this "fear" of numbers.

I was beaten to death by an abacus in a past life. At least, that's what Miss Cleo told me....

[+TrailGators]

I really really really don't understand all this "fear" of numbers.

I was beaten to death by an abacus in a past life. At least, that's what Miss Cleo told me....

My only fear of numbers is at tax time...

[vtmtnman]

I wish there could be at least one more number. I would like it if each cache I found had the find number on it--for instance, if I found my 10th cache on April 2, 2004, I wish it would say 10/400 next to my user name on that cache log. I understand why that can't be, but it would be nice.

I kind of like the idea of placing a link to your next log. You can write the logs in sequence and then later follow your journeys from cache to cache.

That would have been nice. For a long time, I logged mine in reverse order so they would show up in the right order. But after awhile, I forgot to log some and it screwed up the order. Now it's messed up so I don't care. It is fun to read back through the old logs.

I think the 4/100 thing would be cool.It's always fun to see where it falls in your personal timeline.

If it just said "4," it would be cool. I don't need the "/100" part. I actually thought it would work that way when I first started. That way seems very easy to implement.

Oh ok,I get what you meant.Yeah,that way would be good too.