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(ODS) The One Degree of Separation Project


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Nearly one year ago I launched a project (with the much needed help of the Southeast Texas Geocaching Family) to link the entire geocaching continuum to one point. It has been a great success!

 

Almost 1 year from launch now and ODS broke 700 caches officially placed as part of the project and it's still growing by a new cache or two published every day. :D

 

Where are they all? <_<

 

3 Continents

 

12 Countries (including one in Iraq!)

 

43 States

 

4 Canadian Provinces

 

First things first. Those of you who know about ODS and like the idea, please send a friend request to ODS: PRIME! and you will now be able to keep tabs on this ambitious project from your own profile. Those that do so will be the first ones offered to participate in the NEXT phase of the project to be announced soon. :D:D:D

 

OKAY! :D

 

To bring folks that don't know about the project up to speed..... On May 26, 2006 I gave away approximately 300+ regular sized seed pod caches containing roughly 12,500+ film canister seed caches to the folks who attended the GW4 Meet & Greet that I hosted. It was an international crowd of well over 300!

 

The grand total is a whopping 13,000+ caches were handed out to launch the project. I expected quite a high percentage of attrition and I'm quite happy with the percentage of participation given the time and money I have spent to get it going.

 

I had been talking about and planning this project since 2003. It grew and GREW and evolved over the years as the materials were collected and the idea was refined. It took 2 all day events of 30+ volunteers to assemble the materials. I would estimate it took OVER 500 man hours. I KNOW it took just over $500.

 

When I first made mention of this project being ready to launch in this forum just over a year ago, I was surprised and a little shocked at the negative foregone conclusion that a few of the more respected members of our forum community displayed at the idea. :D

 

I decided to keep as quiet as I possibly could about ODS until the project could stand alone on it's own merit. I believe that as the 1 year anniversary approaches, that time has come.

 

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU. :D

 

All I ask is one favor. Before you flame the idea, take a look at the caches in the project (on ODS: PRIME!'s profile) and look closely at what the hiders and finders are saying about the project all over the world. I know it's allot to ask from the micro haters, but please give the project a look before you condemn it as micro-spew and cast your fears upon the next phase in the project before you even find out what it is. :D

 

Here are some pictures of the ODS Seed Pod caches:

 

a227d2b4-e53b-46f3-abbc-f2698b9bcd15.jpg

 

e4a24160-566e-4384-a4c2-59d64eb59b35.jpg

 

784eb2b8-82ee-40d6-8f94-211bbbd8fbb2.jpg

The caches filled up 3 of those tables!

Edited by Snoogans
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Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU. :P

 

All I ask is one favor. Before you flame the idea, take a look at the caches in the project (on ODS: PRIME!'s profile) and look closely at what the hiders and finders are saying about the project all over the world. I know it's allot to ask from the micro haters, but please give the project a look before you condemn it as micro-spew and cast your fears upon the next phase in the project before you even find out what it is.

I don't get it. Didn't then. Still don't now.

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I think I might maybe sorta begin to know what you're trying to do, but only because I've met you here in the forums and heard this before you even released the seed pods. But what about the rest of the caching world?

 

To quote a friend of my who found one of these, "How the <family friendly> is a stupid film can under a tree going make me give a <family friendly> about some <family friendly> that lives half way across the country."

 

Edit to say: I don't mind them at all. I just wanted you to hear what someone said to me.

Edited by Totem Clan
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Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU. :P

 

All I ask is one favor. Before you flame the idea, take a look at the caches in the project (on ODS: PRIME!'s profile) and look closely at what the hiders and finders are saying about the project all over the world. I know it's allot to ask from the micro haters, but please give the project a look before you condemn it as micro-spew and cast your fears upon the next phase in the project before you even find out what it is.

I don't get it. Didn't then. Still don't now.

 

That's OK lots of people don't.....But then again, lots more do. :)

 

The Whatis?com Definition is as good as it gets:

 

six degrees of separation

 

Six degrees of separation is the theory that anyone on the planet can be connected to any other person on the planet through a chain of acquaintances that has no more than five intermediaries. The theory was first proposed in 1929 by the Hungarian writer Frigyes Karinthy in a short story called "Chains."

In the 1950's, Ithiel de Sola Pool (MIT) and Manfred Kochen (IBM) set out to prove the theory mathematically. Although they were able to phrase the question (given a set N of people, what is the probability that each member of N is connected to another member via k_1, k_2, k_3...k_n links?), after twenty years they were still unable to solve the problem to their own satisfaction. In 1967, American sociologist Stanley Milgram devised a new way to test the theory, which he called "the small-world problem." He randomly selected people in the mid-West to send packages to a stranger located in Massachusetts. The senders knew the recipient's name, occupation, and general location. They were instructed to send the package to a person they knew on a first-name basis who they thought was most likely, out of all their friends, to know the target personally. That person would do the same, and so on, until the package was personally delivered to its target recipient.

 

Although the participants expected the chain to include at least a hundred intermediaries, it only took (on average) between five and seven intermediaries to get each package delivered. Milgram's findings were published in Psychology Today and inspired the phrase "six degrees of separation." Playwright John Guare popularized the phrase when he chose it as the title for his 1990 play of the same name. Although Milgram's findings were discounted after it was discovered that he based his conclusion on a very small number of packages, six degrees of separation became an accepted notion in pop culture after Brett C. Tjaden published a computer game on the University of Virginia's Web site based on the small-world problem. Tjaden used the Internet Movie Database (IMDB) to document connections between different actors. Time Magazine called his site, The Oracle of Bacon at Virginia, one of the "Ten Best Web Sites of 1996."

 

In 2001, Duncan Watts, a professor at Columbia University, continued his own earlier research into the phenomenon and recreated Milgram's experiment on the Internet. Watts used an e-mail message as the "package" that needed to be delivered, and surprisingly, after reviewing the data collected by 48,000 senders and 19 targets (in 157 countries), Watts found that the average number of intermediaries was indeed, six. Watts' research, and the advent of the computer age, has opened up new areas of inquiry related to six degrees of separation in diverse areas of network theory such as as power grid analysis, disease transmission, graph theory, corporate communication, and computer circuitry.

 

 

The original geocaching threads:

 

Holistic Geocaching (A New Obsession)

 

Six Degrees of Markwellation

 

Geocaching "Six Degrees"?

 

More links on the subject:

 

Wikipedia Definition

 

The small world project.

 

Cornell University Article

 

Wired News Article

 

The Kevin Bacon stuff:

 

Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon

 

Try this link. It's a real hoot: The Oracle of Bacon

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I think I might maybe sorta begin to know what you're trying to do, but only because I've met you here in the forums and heard this before you even released the seed pods. But what about the rest of the caching world?

 

To quote a friend of my who found one of these, "How the <family friendly> is a stupid film can under a tree going make me give a <family friendly> about some <family friendly> that lives half way across the country."

 

Edit to say: I don't mind them at all. I just wanted you to hear what someone said to me.

 

 

:DB):):):)

 

 

Ummmm, this project isn't meant to be all fluffy bunnies and kittens. I mean.... You realize who started it.... Right? :D

 

 

I am was the most blatantly self promoting guy I know of until Vinny & Sue showed up. :P:D

 

 

The original idea (when there were only 1k film cans & about 20 seed pods) was to have MY name in the title of EVERY cache. Well that and to basically moon every blindly micro hating geocacher on the planet. As the molehill grew into a mountain, I figured that would get old real quick.

 

 

Then, I promised to host the GW4 meet and greet & I knew that the ODS idea would fly as being different enough from GW to get approved..... And in TRUE Snoogans fashion, I procrastinated until the idea caught fire before my butt did.

 

 

I had an epiphany. If I made it a community project, I could get folks to do the work FOR me in exchange for immortality as part of a geo-history making project. I ummm, borrowed a page or three from Tom Sawyer.

 

 

It was some of the most fun I ever had in the geocaching context getting this project assembled with the help of the Houston Geocaching Society. You would not believe the email and the stories about how much others have enjoyed their involvement in this project over the past year. It has been worth the cost and the effort for that alone. B)B)

 

 

The ultimate stated goal of ODS is to connect the entire geocaching continuum to one point in as few degrees of separation as possible. One degree being the most desired goal. I never stated that we all had to love eachother and then get together for a big hug afterword. :):D:)

 

 

It's just supposed to be FUN. That's all. :)

Edited by Snoogans
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I'm not a fan of the ODS project. Regardless of the whole Bacon idea, it's basically spreading a lot of mediocre (or worse) caches and it eats up the time of our volunteer reviewers as well.

 

I'll admit that it took a huge amount of coordination, cooperation, money and effort to put the whole idea into a process that is actually growing. From a Kevin Bacon point of view, I'm sure the project is a great sucess. But from a caching point of view, I still find myself wondering why our hobbby is being polluted with these things.

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I'm not a fan of the ODS project. Regardless of the whole Bacon idea, it's basically spreading a lot of mediocre (or worse) caches and it eats up the time of our volunteer reviewers as well.

 

I'll admit that it took a huge amount of coordination, cooperation, money and effort to put the whole idea into a process that is actually growing. From a Kevin Bacon point of view, I'm sure the project is a great sucess. But from a caching point of view, I still find myself wondering why our hobbby is being polluted with these things.

 

 

I respect your opinion. I respect it more because you have found 2 ODS caches.

 

 

A picture from the page of your most recent ODS find.

 

 

From another of your ODS finds:

 

Found with Lux, ODragon, and ThePropers during a NE PA cache tour this weekend. While I'm not a big fan of the "One Degree of Separation" project and the caches spewed out en masse because of it, it was neat to see this church and the cemetery. We wondered whether it's still used on a regular basis, and figured it must be because everything is kept up so well -- even though there doesn't seem to be much room for parking on a Sunday morning. Thanks for the cache.

 

From your profile:

My favorite things about caching:

1. Being taken to places with awesome scenic views.

2. Being taken to places of historical significance.

3. Being taken to unique or very rare places or things.

 

 

Please point out the pollution factor in your first hand ODS experience. I'd really like to try to understand your mindset. :)

 

 

I knew I would encounter more negativity by posting this thread and I don't wish to sway you. I just want to understand your logic that this project is pollution. :)

 

I'm not a fan of the ODS project. Regardless of the whole Bacon idea, it's basically spreading a lot of mediocre (or worse) caches and it eats up the time of our volunteer reviewers as well.

 

The whole job of a reviewer IS to review caches.... Right? I welcome the reviewer perspective. :P

Edited by Snoogans
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Please point out the pollution factor in your first hand ODS experience. I'd really like to try to understand your mindset. :P

 

I knew I would encounter more negativity by posting this thread and I don't wish to sway you. I just want to understand your logic that this project is pollution. :)

 

My first ODS experience was admittedly not bad; that was the one at the old church. Fortunately the hider of that one had the good sense to replace the ODS film canister with a waterproof matchstick holder, otherwise the cache probably would have been soaked. Film canisters aren't waterproof, and generally make for poor cache containers. I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised at the location, it was nicer than I was expecting.

 

My latest ODS experience was the one with the picture of a turkey. What you're not seeing is the nearby house where said turkey apparently once visited. The cache was placed at the end of the driveway, right next to the road, pretty much in plain sight -- just a drive up quickie in someone's yard. I actually found the micro at the church to be a much more interesting location.

 

My two ODS experiences aren't bad, nor are they spectacular. I think I'm fortunate in that regard. Because the focus of your project is on sheer quantity and not on quality, AND because your container of choice for the majority of the hides is a film canister, I'm pretty confident that spew hides are quite prevalent. I've found enough micros to know that they're usually placed with little thought as to location, quality, or the enjoyment of the finder. Yes, I'm being stereotypical and I admit that. But stereotypes exist for a reason, don't they?

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Please point out the pollution factor in your first hand ODS experience. I'd really like to try to understand your mindset. :P

 

I knew I would encounter more negativity by posting this thread and I don't wish to sway you. I just want to understand your logic that this project is pollution. :)

 

My first ODS experience was admittedly not bad; that was the one at the old church. Fortunately the hider of that one had the good sense to replace the ODS film canister with a waterproof matchstick holder, otherwise the cache probably would have been soaked. Film canisters aren't waterproof, and generally make for poor cache containers. I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised at the location, it was nicer than I was expecting.

 

My latest ODS experience was the one with the picture of a turkey. What you're not seeing is the nearby house where said turkey apparently once visited. The cache was placed at the end of the driveway, right next to the road, pretty much in plain sight -- just a drive up quickie in someone's yard. I actually found the micro at the church to be a much more interesting location.

 

My two ODS experiences aren't bad, nor are they spectacular. I think I'm fortunate in that regard. Because the focus of your project is on sheer quantity and not on quality, AND because your container of choice for the majority of the hides is a film canister, I'm pretty confident that spew hides are quite prevalent. I've found enough micros to know that they're usually placed with little thought as to location, quality, or the enjoyment of the finder. Yes, I'm being stereotypical and I admit that. But stereotypes exist for a reason, don't they?

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

My two ODS experiences aren't bad, nor are they spectacular.

 

 

Okay. That just described about 90% of my Non-Event geocaching experience over the last 4 years regardless of container size.

 

 

Fortunately the hider of that one had the good sense to replace the ODS film canister with a waterproof matchstick holder, otherwise the cache probably would have been soaked. Film canisters aren't waterproof, and generally make for poor cache containers.

 

 

Good on that hider for upgrading their hide. I encouraged that from the start. The ODS official log was the real focus of the first phase.

 

 

I live most of the year in an area that gets LOTS of rain. Yet, a skillful hider can find a spot to hide a film canister that will keep the log dry. Often the problem with wet micros is NOT the person who hid the cache in the first place, but the careless person who rehid it. I feel your foregone conclusion about the log being wet is in error.

 

 

Yes, I'm being stereotypical and I admit that. But stereotypes exist for a reason, don't they?

 

 

:) .....and....stereotypes are ..... good things? :)

 

 

 

Stereotypes are ideas held about members of particular groups, based primarily on membership in that group. They may be positive or negative prejudicial, and may be used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors. Some people consider all stereotypes to be negative. Stereotypes are rarely completely accurate, based on some kernel of truth, or completely fabricated. Different disciplines give different accounts of how stereotypes develop: Psychologists focus on how experience with groups, patterns of communication about the groups, and intergroup conflict. Sociologists focus on the relations among groups and position of different groups in a social structure. Psychoanalytically-oriented humanists have argued (e.g., Sander Gilman) that stereotypes, by definition, are never accurate representations, but a projection of an individual's fears onto others, regardless of the reality of others.

 

 

Stereotypes are assumed characteristics based on a large group of individuals whose beliefs, habits, and actions are similar.

 

Stereotype production can be based on:

 

  • Simplification
  • Exaggeration
  • Generalization
  • Presentation of cultural attributes as being 'natural'
  • Racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of discrimination
  • Historical factors
  • Guilt by association

Stereotypes are seen by many as undesirable beliefs imposed to justify the acts of discrimination and oppression. It is thought that education and/or familiarization can change these incorrect beliefs. Other negative effects are:

  • justification of ill-founded prejudices or ignorance
  • unwillingness to rethink one's attitudes and behavior towards stereotyped group
  • self-fulfilling prophecy for both stereotyping and stereotyped group (white people treat black people in a more hostile way because they are afraid of them; black people accordingly react more aggressively, thus confirming the stereotype...)

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I'd love to place one of those caches. just tell me what I need to do. ^.^

 

 

To participate in the first phase, just find an ODS seed pod and take a seed to hide yourself. :)

 

 

To participate in the second phase, just send ODS: PRIME! a friend request.

 

 

When phase two is in pre-launch, you and all the others on ODS: PRIME!'s friends list will be notified of how to begin getting your cache together (if you wish to participate), suggested page set-up, where to download the official log forms, and of the exact launch date. It will be at least a few months before the launch is announced. :P:):)

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:P .....and....stereotypes are ..... good things? :)

 

 

Let's define "stereotype" properly first:

 

From the Merriam-Webster English Dictionary:

Main Entry: stereotype

Function: noun

Etymology: French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type

1 : a plate cast from a printing surface

2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

 

The general pattern I've noticed with micro caches is that they're usually placed in ordinary, mundane locations and provide little more than a log to sign as their part of the "geocaching experience". Therefore, my method of dealing with micros is to filter them all out initially, then review the select ones on an individual basis ones to see whether they break the pattern and may actually be worth my time. Most are not, a few are.

 

Is there any reason why the general pattern should be different for the micros involved in the ODS project? Do you mandate that the ODS micros be hidden differently than any other micro? Is there some reason why my standardized mental picture of micros, formed from my own caching experience, should not apply to the 12000+ film canisters you've passed out?

 

I'm sure some of the 12000 film cans are good hides that I'd enjoy. I very highly doubt that the majority are, however. Past experience indicates otherwise.

 

But this thread isn't a debate about whether micros are good or bad things, it's about the ODS project, and I don't wish to derail it. My opinion is what it is, nothing personal against you. I'm probably as curious as to what the next stage of your project is as anyone else.

 

[Warning - 90 degree turn in conversation ahead]

One thing I would like to know: did you buy a bunch of empty coffee cans from a distributor, or did you actually collect cans that all, at one time, were full of coffee?

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[Warning - 90 degree turn in conversation ahead]

One thing I would like to know: did you buy a bunch of empty coffee cans from a distributor, or did you actually collect cans that all, at one time, were full of coffee?

I'd say he collected em'. :P

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[Warning - 90 degree turn in conversation ahead]

One thing I would like to know: did you buy a bunch of empty coffee cans from a distributor, or did you actually collect cans that all, at one time, were full of coffee?

I'd say he collected em'. :)

 

 

Dude,

 

 

Your sig line caused me to spray tea all over my desk. I forgot about that. :P:):)

 

 

"You are supposed to come to the forums so I can feed you what I want you to believe. Worship me dammit!"Snoogans

 

 

Back ON topic:

 

 

I believe it says somewhere on my profile that I DON'T drink coffee. Can't stand the taste of the stuff, but I like the smell.

 

 

I work in an 11 story highrise building. I told the keepers of the various coffee areas throughout the facility that I wanted to recycle their empties and I told them about my plan.

 

 

Several of the local cachers contributed to the container load, but none so much as ParkerPlus. He is our local eeeevil micro hider and he went around and collected over 10,000 of the micros for the project. The first phase of ODS would NOT have been possible without him. What an awesome guy!

 

 

It took 3+ years for me to get all the seed pod containers collected. Parker got most of the micros in the last 10 months of the project assembly.

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:P .....and....stereotypes are ..... good things? :)

 

 

Let's define "stereotype" properly first:

 

From the Merriam-Webster English Dictionary:

Main Entry: stereotype

Function: noun

Etymology: French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type

1 : a plate cast from a printing surface

2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

 

The general pattern I've noticed with micro caches is that they're usually placed in ordinary, mundane locations and provide little more than a log to sign as their part of the "geocaching experience". Therefore, my method of dealing with micros is to filter them all out initially, then review the select ones on an individual basis ones to see whether they break the pattern and may actually be worth my time. Most are not, a few are.

 

Is there any reason why the general pattern should be different for the micros involved in the ODS project? Do you mandate that the ODS micros be hidden differently than any other micro? Is there some reason why my standardized mental picture of micros, formed from my own caching experience, should not apply to the 12000+ film canisters you've passed out?

 

I'm sure some of the 12000 film cans are good hides that I'd enjoy. I very highly doubt that the majority are, however. Past experience indicates otherwise.

 

But this thread isn't a debate about whether micros are good or bad things, it's about the ODS project, and I don't wish to derail it. My opinion is what it is, nothing personal against you. I'm probably as curious as to what the next stage of your project is as anyone else.

 

[Warning - 90 degree turn in conversation ahead]

One thing I would like to know: did you buy a bunch of empty coffee cans from a distributor, or did you actually collect cans that all, at one time, were full of coffee?

I'm just curious, which catagory (red text above) does your micro stereotype fall into?

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Let's define "stereotype" properly first:

 

From the Merriam-Webster English Dictionary:

Main Entry: stereotype

Function: noun

Etymology: French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type

1 : a plate cast from a printing surface

2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

 

Yes. I believe that's what I meant. :)

 

The general pattern I've noticed with micro caches is that they're usually placed in ordinary, mundane locations and provide little more than a log to sign as their part of the "geocaching experience".

 

What's wrong with ordinary and mundane? EVERYTHING can't be extraordinary ALWAYS. Ya gotta find a date for that hot chick's fat friend before you can get to know her better.

 

I find that to be true of most caches regardless of size, which is whyyy my find count is so low after 4 years. I have cached from coast to coast and that is usually the case. I guess the difference between me and you is when I decide to hunt a cache, I don't feel entitled to anything more than a log book to sign from someone else's effort to contribute to the sport. This IS geocaching right?

 

There must be some major WOW factor to your local cachin' continuum for you to hold such high standards against a micro cache that has been placed within the guidelines.

 

Therefore, my method of dealing with micros is to filter them all out initially, then review the select ones on an individual basis ones to see whether they break the pattern and may actually be worth my time. Most are not, a few are.

 

Again, apply same to ALL caches for me.

 

Is there any reason why the general pattern should be different for the micros involved in the ODS project?

 

Heck NO. Folks are gonna hide caches the way they want to. It makes no difference that it's part of ODS.

 

Not to be overly poetic, but a cache by any other name....... Is ummm, still a cache. :D:P

 

Do you mandate that the ODS micros be hidden differently than any other micro?

 

There's not an anal bone in my body. (Okay, for some reason that doesn't sound right.) :)

 

Is there some reason why my standardized mental picture of micros, formed from my own caching experience, should not apply to the 12000+ film canisters you've passed out?

 

For you... No. :)

 

BUT that's far from proving your point that this project constitutes pollution of the geocaching continuum for everyone else. :)

 

I'm probably as curious as to what the next stage of your project is as anyone else.

 

Be patient. The second phase has been in the works for several months. It will be MUCH improved even by some of your stated standards. :)

 

Sincerely, thank you very much for taking the time and helping me better understand the other side of the fence. :D

Edited by Snoogans
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[Warning - 90 degree turn in conversation ahead]

One thing I would like to know: did you buy a bunch of empty coffee cans from a distributor, or did you actually collect cans that all, at one time, were full of coffee?

I'd say he collected em'. :D

 

 

Dude,

 

 

Your sig line caused me to spray tea all over my desk. I forgot about that. :P:):)

 

 

"You are supposed to come to the forums so I can feed you what I want you to believe. Worship me dammit!"Snoogans

 

 

Back ON topic:

 

 

I believe it says somewhere on my profile that I DON'T drink coffee. Can't stand the taste of the stuff, but I like the smell.

 

 

I work in an 11 story highrise building. I told the keepers of the various coffee areas throughout the facility that I wanted to recycle their empties and I told them about my plan.

 

 

Several of the local cachers contributed to the container load, but none so much as ParkerPlus. He is our local eeeevil micro hider and he went around and collected over 10,000 of the micros for the project. The first phase of ODS would NOT have been possible without him. What an awesome guy!

 

 

It took 3+ years for me to get all the seed pod containers collected. Parker got most of the micros in the last 10 months of the project assembly.

:D:):):)

 

I've gotten into the habit of changing my sig line when I find a worthy quote.

 

Not that many are reading them.

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So as the 1 year date approaches does that mean that I have to get the last seed pod out of the barn and hide it?

 

I brought a dozen or so of the seed pods home to Alabama last year, they've all been given away, hidden and get lots of hits, but I happened to end up with yours, Snoogans, and I have been telling myself for a year that I need to find a cool spot to hide it!

 

1° from failure to launch!

 

OBTW - I can't believe that you thought this project might find support in here! :)

 

I will try to hide your pod tomorrow. :P

Ed

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So as the 1 year date approaches does that mean that I have to get the last seed pod out of the barn and hide it?

 

I brought a dozen or so of the seed pods home to Alabama last year, they've all been given away, hidden and get lots of hits, but I happened to end up with yours, Snoogans, and I have been telling myself for a year that I need to find a cool spot to hide it!

 

1° from failure to launch!

 

OBTW - I can't believe that you thought this project might find support in here! :)

 

I will try to hide your pod tomorrow. :D

Ed

 

 

No failure on your part.

 

 

Phase one ISN'T over. It will go on until no more are being hidden. It'll be over when it's over.

 

 

Hide that pod at your leisure. Take your time and find a good spot that somehow reminds you of me, since that particular one bears my name. :)

 

OBTW - I can't believe that you thought this project might find support in here!

 

I full on expected rocks to be thrown. That's why I waited this long. The project stands on it's own merit. The foregone conclusions were WRONG.

 

From the growing friend requests for ODS: PRIME!, the intrinsic merit of the project is quite evident to me. It's also kinda neat to see who reads and agrees and never steps into the pit. Thanks to those unseen participants in this thread for your support. :P:):):D:)

Edited by Snoogans
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As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

I was reading a bit and reasearching a tiny bit on this thing and it sounds cool.Is it too late for me to get in on it?(Obviously other that FRing ODS Prime.)

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As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

I was reading a bit and reasearching a tiny bit on this thing and it sounds cool.Is it too late for me to get in on it?(Obviously other that FRing ODS Prime.)

 

 

Nope. This project will go on for quite awhile..... I guess until the last ODS cache is archived. :P

 

 

You could always risk your life and drive to Baghdad to be FTF on that new cache. :) How far away is that from you?

Edited by Snoogans
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As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

I was reading a bit and reasearching a tiny bit on this thing and it sounds cool.Is it too late for me to get in on it?(Obviously other that FRing ODS Prime.)

 

 

Nope. This project will go on for quite awhile..... I guess until the last ODS cache is archived. :)

 

 

You could always risk your life and drive to Baghdad to be FTF on that new cache. :P How far away is that from you?

 

Only 70 miles east...over one of the most dangerous roads in the world. :)

 

New thread-How far have you gone for an FTF.. :)

 

I guess I'll have to wait till I get home and find one.I don't think I'll be in Baghdad again.

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I don't get it. Didn't then. Still don't now.

That's OK lots of people don't.....But then again, lots more do.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that do.

 

I think the main reason I don't "get it" is to whom and the manner the connection is made. The connection is find a cache or hitch hiker, attend an event, or other meet someone. Then how many steps to make a connection to you. Then, I suppose the ODS is attempting to see how many people can find one of your caches so they have only one degree of separation.

 

I think the point I don't get is the flimsy connections that is being made. Find a cache you've found or placed? Who cares? With that I could probably make a two point connection to nearly anyone simply because I've meet CCCA. The same goes with anyone who has attended a mega event.

 

The finding-a-cache or handling-a-TB part is pretty flimsy and equates the Kevin Bacon premise by simply watching a Kevin Bacon movie. In short, who cares?

 

Additionally, I think there is a logical disconnect in your primary premise. From you website, "Simply put, this is an ambitious project to make as many geocachers as possible just one degree of separation off from every other geocacher who hides/finds and logs a cache that originated here. " The admirable, but flawed.

 

If you look at how the connections are made, it don't produce a one degree of separation. The project isn't producing the hides, only the containers and web template. The individual is placing the cache. This breaks the one degree right there. One person finding a ODS cache is connected via the ODS to another person many miles away by 4 points. CacherA -> ODSplacerA -> ODSproject -> ODSplacerB -> CacherB That's 4 points. They are probably connected to each other in less steps via a different set of connections. Even if both ODSplacerA and ODSplacerB were at the event where you gave all of these out, that only drops the connection to 3.

 

CCCA, Team Alamo, or other high find cachers would produce better results with their connections.

 

Those two issues and the fact the project creates an inherently artificial connection is probably why I don't get it. I think it falls into the category of placing caches simply so your buds can find them to up their find count and they do the same for you.

 

I think I'd be much more impressed with a project that illustrates the connections made by actually meeting someone face-to-face.

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I think I'd be much more impressed with a project that illustrates the connections made by actually meeting someone face-to-face.

 

 

Before I address any other point you are trying to make. What exactly would the logistics of such a project be.... ummm, exactly? :)

 

 

Would such a project in fact have anything AT ALL to do with finding caches? :) This IS geocaching right?

 

 

What you are suggesting is merely a boring research project. I would find the results as interesting as you would, BUT I certainly wouldn't enjoy the effort that would mean hundreds of hours in front of the computer tracing all the links to produce exactly what as an end product? Data? Whoopity-doo. That would be great fun for the pocket protector set but not me. :P I already spend too much time as ODS: PRIME searching out actual caches that have been hidden as part of the project. I invite you to go right ahead with THAT project.

 

 

This project is about FUN while using some interesting statistical data to illustrate the concept.

 

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.... :)

 

 

BTW- The interesting thing about all of this is that the "social find" concept that was kicked around after the great "pocket lint" debate of Aught Six would have supported your premis. However, what we got is a knockoff of MySpace. Interestingly though, it is exactly the tool I needed for the next phase of ODS. :)

Edited by Snoogans
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What's wrong with ordinary and mundane? EVERYTHING can't be extraordinary ALWAYS. Ya gotta find a date for that hot chick's fat friend before you can get to know her better.

 

There must be some major WOW factor to your local cachin' continuum for you to hold such high standards against a micro cache that has been placed within the guidelines.

 

Unfortunately, quite the opposite. We have our fair share of decent caches, but we have an overabundance of numbers-building micro garbage too. Perhaps that's why I'm so biased against micros. I've found enough urban micro spew to know that they are usually not an enjoyable part of the game for me. Therefore my prejudiced views are based on my personal experiences. We all make judgements based on our own experiences, do we not?

 

Is there any reason why the general pattern should be different for the micros involved in the ODS project?

 

Heck NO. Folks are gonna hide caches the way they want to. It makes no difference that it's part of ODS.

 

Not to be overly poetic, but a cache by any other name....... Is ummm, still a cache. :):)

 

Exactly. It's not the ODS project I have an issue with, it's the fact that it's spreading micros in such a way that encourages quantity over quality. Regardless of cache size, quantity over quality isn't a good thing. At least with larger caches a little more thought needs to go into their placement so the larger the container, the better the chance of a quality hide. Smaller container = easier to hide and that means less thought needs to go into the hiding process. Therefore, the chance of finding a micro placed with little thought or skill is higher than with a small, regular, or large sized cache, especially in urban areas. In rural areas, this generalization isn't as applicable.

 

Do you mandate that the ODS micros be hidden differently than any other micro?

 

There's not an anal bone in my body. (Okay, for some reason that doesn't sound right.) :)

 

Not gonna touch this one. :)

 

Is there some reason why my standardized mental picture of micros, formed from my own caching experience, should not apply to the 12000+ film canisters you've passed out?

 

For you... No. :)

 

BUT that's far from proving your point that this project constitutes pollution of the geocaching continuum for everyone else. :P

 

I understand not everyone agrees with me, and that's ok. There are numbers hunters who will race after a log sheet regardless of where/how it's placed. I know I'm more particular than many cachers; no secret there. I also know I'm not alone with my "pollution" point of view. Nothing to prove except not everyone finds 12000 new micro hides a Good Thing. And you knew that from the outset of your project, you said so yourself.

 

I'm probably as curious as to what the next stage of your project is as anyone else.

 

Be patient. The second phase has been in the works for several months. It will be MUCH improved even by some of your stated standards. :D

 

Good! I'll watch for the details.

 

Sincerely, thank you very much for taking the time and helping me better understand the other side of the fence.

 

You're quite welcome.

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Before I address any other point you are trying to make. What exactly would the logistics of such a project be.... ummm, exactly? :P

I've not given it any thought. I'm not interested in pursuing it and I doubt I would even participate in it.

 

Would such a project in fact have anything AT ALL to do with finding caches?

Well, you original connections included events and chance meetings. What did those have to do with geocaching?

 

Additionally, if it was about caches, why not connect caches together? How many steps from one of my caches to one of your caches, for instance? ...and not include the owners of said cache, only the finders.

 

This project is about FUN while using some interesting statistical data to illustrate the concept.

Again, I guess I don't get it. What's "fun" about micro-spew?

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...the fact the project creates an inherently artificial connection is probably why I don't get it.

 

That right there has been my main issue with the whole project.

 

Make no mistake, I get geeked when I find a connection between me and another cacher who lives on the other side of the world. Just this morning I was scoping out the profile page of a friend of a friend and saw that they had logged a cache that I had logged. To me that was a very cool connection.

 

I remember the first time I was able to connect myself to Markwell through a cache...or BruceS. Those were cool moments in the natural growth of this game. But if that's the goal of the ODS project, then it's suddenly artificial and forced.

 

Having said that, I found my first ODS on a visit to Oklahoma. I'm not even sure there were any in my home area at that time. It was kinda cool to look at the cache page and say, "Ooh...it's one of those."

 

Bret

 

Oh...and the other thing that's kinda cool is how the acronym sounds like "odious" :P

Edited by CYBret
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Before I address any other point you are trying to make. What exactly would the logistics of such a project be.... ummm, exactly? :)

I've not given it any thought. I'm not interested in pursuing it and I doubt I would even participate in it.

 

 

You haven't given it any thought? :D Dude, it was the summation of your entire post. :) Did you give as much thought to the rest of it? Honestly, I wasn't planning on going back there to argue you point by point, because it seemed blatantly negative and argumentative. Now I see why.... :P

 

 

Would such a project in fact have anything AT ALL to do with finding caches?

Well, you original connections included events and chance meetings. What did those have to do with geocaching?

 

 

There were THREE events and ALL were part of the project. Two events to assemble the materials and one event to give the caches away. What are the chance meetings you speak of? Please link or quote. :)

 

 

This project is about FUN while using some interesting statistical data to illustrate the concept.

Again, I guess I don't get it. What's "fun" about micro-spew?

 

 

No. You don't get it and that's okay. You've illustrated your blind hatred of micros quite well. :)

 

 

I think it's quite entertaining to see you all (the micro-haters) fixated on the total figure of 12,000+ micros while casting a blind eye to the fact that 300+ regular to large sized caches were what was handed out at the main event. Did you miss the pictures in the OP? B)

 

 

There are ONLY 712 Official ODS caches at this time. :) The project is 1 year old and noticeably slowing its foreword progress. What are the odds that 12,000+ micro hides will be the end result? :D

 

 

Hey, I'm good at getting folks to participate in my little projects, but I'm not THAT good. Sheesh! :) How many caches are there in the world? Do those 712 caches and the few hundred that will undoubtedly follow really represent a threat to pollute the geocaching continuum? Have you even checked to see how many are seed pods and how many are micros? The sky has in fact not fallen.

 

 

Rank by number of caches hidden:

 

1 Texas: 138

2 Oklahoma: 57

3 Alabama: 47

4 Wisconsin: 38

5 Ohio: 35

6 Florida: 35

7 Tennessee: 34

8 Washington: 34

9 Germany: 31

10 North Carolina: 29

11 California: 24

12 Arizona: 17

13 Pennsylvania: 16

14 Idaho: 15

15 Oregon: 14

16 Missouri: 13

17 United Kingdom: 13

18 Virginia: 12

19 Colorado: 11

20 Kansas: 9

21 Illinois: 7

22 Ontario: 6

23 Maryland: 5

24 Utah: 5

25 New Mexico: 5

26 Wyoming: 5

27 Michigan: 4

28 Thailand: 4

29 Kentucky: 3

30 New York: 3

31 Georgia: 3

32 Massachusetts: 3

33 New Jersey: 3

34 South Carolina: 2

35 Iowa: 2

36 Kyrgyzstan: 2

37 West Virginia: 2

38 Maine: 2

39 Mexico: 1

40 British Columbia: 1

41 Quebec: 1

42 Vermont: 1

43 Sweden: 1

44 New Hampshire: 1

45 Louisiana: 1

46 Nebraska: 1

47 South Dakota: 1

48 Minnesota: 1

49 Poland: 1

50 Alaska: 1

51 Indiana: 1

52 Singapore: 1

53 Hawaii: 1

54 Iraq: 1

55 Phillipines: 1

56 Arkansas: 1

57 Nova Scotia: 1

58 North Dakota: 1

Total: 708(712 including 4 members only caches in OR., TX., & CA.)

Edited by Snoogans
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Oh...and the other thing that's kinda cool is how the acronym sounds like "odious" :)

 

 

Odious: exciting or deserving hatred or repugnance.... :)

 

 

WOW! Hatred or repugnance in the geocaching context. :):)

 

 

Someone takes this allll a lit-tle tooo seriously. :P It's a good thing my skin is so thick. :)

Edited by Snoogans
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I think it falls into the category of placing caches simply so your buds can find them to up their find count and they do the same for you.

I can't speak for Snoogans or what he's getting out of this project - what I got was dozens of new caches to find. For that I am grateful.

 

By the way - " placing caches simply so your buds can find them to up their find count and they do the same for you."... isn't that called geocaching?

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Before I address any other point you are trying to make. What exactly would the logistics of such a project be.... ummm, exactly? :)

I've not given it any thought. I'm not interested in pursuing it and I doubt I would even participate in it.

You haven't given it any thought? :P Dude, it was the summation of your entire post.

The summation of my entire post was the logistics of a project?

 

Would such a project in fact have anything AT ALL to do with finding caches?

Well, you original connections included events and chance meetings. What did those have to do with geocaching?

There were THREE events and ALL were part of the project. Two events to assemble the materials and one event to give the caches away. What are the chance meetings you speak of? Please link or quote. :)

It was part of your Degrees of Snoogans. Or am I mistaken?

 

This project is about FUN while using some interesting statistical data to illustrate the concept.

Again, I guess I don't get it. What's "fun" about micro-spew?

No. You don't get it and that's okay. You've illustrated your blind hatred of micros quite well.

Careful. You starting to sound a lot like some other folks who like to put words in other folks mouths. I believe I've mentioned on more than one occasion--more like repeatedly--that I don't hate, or even dislike, micros.

 

I believe "spew" is what I'm concerned about. That and "seed" caches. Neither encourage quality over simply doing.

 

Additionally, I have to wonder why you would use seed caches with micros for your spew when you could have even more easily used the "spawn" concept. Then you would have had the same control, not have had to assemble the seed caches or collect the micros, and used to a larger cache format. The only thing I can think of is the laziness factor in that you provide the container and the micros are so much easier to hide, thus giving you more return.

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Oh...and the other thing that's kinda cool is how the acronym sounds like "odious" :)

 

Someone takes this allll a lit-tle tooo seriously. :) It's a good thing my skin is so thick. :)

 

If it was seriously there wouldn't have been the little :) after the comment.

 

We're not a tad defensive, are we? :P

 

:):D:D:)B)

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By the way - " placing caches simply so your buds can find them to up their find count and they do the same for you."... isn't that called geocaching?

I believe this perfectly illustrates what some of us believe is wrong with the direction some folks are trying to take our hobby.

 

To answer your question: no, this is not what geocaching is about, IMNSHO.

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By the way - " placing caches simply so your buds can find them to up their find count and they do the same for you."... isn't that called geocaching?

I believe this perfectly illustrates what some of us believe is wrong with the direction some folks are trying to take our hobby.

 

To answer your question: no, this is not what geocaching is about, IMNSHO.

Right. Geocaches are supposed to take us to neat places. Nice views. Take us to places that we enjoy going. This is what the original intent of geocaching was.

 

This "new" direction that geocaching is taking, that of just having a hidden container to find and log online, that non-geocachers aren't aware of, is just a silly addition to the game that we can all do without.

 

Oh how I long for the days of the original cache, with the original "neat location". :D

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Additionally, I have to wonder why you would use seed caches with micros for your spew ----edit-----------

 

The only thing I can think of is the laziness factor in that you provide the container and the micros are so much easier to hide, thus giving you more return.

 

 

Snoog,just canc the project.Have everyone archive,send you back your seeds and pods.Then at GW7,roll up 300 cargo/box trucks packed with 1000(Or however many will fit) .50cal ammo cans.Disperse box trucks.Then the box trucks get drove out in the woods,rendered unuseable,listed as a cache,and there you go.No micro spew.And no defending the project from those calling it micro spew.

 

:blink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D:D

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Okay, it is time, I guess, for me to weigh in here. As you likely know, I am not a fan of MicroSpew, aka LUMs. While I am certainly not as extreme as the Hawaiian cacher who brags that he CITOS all the LUMs which he encounters, I remain appalled at the proliferation of the genre. Now, I enjoy Snoogans, his posts and most of his caches (yes, I have found several) and projects a lot, but I do have strong reservations about the ODS project. . .

 

First, as several posters have already mentioned, such a project can easily lead to the proliferation of more kudzu, oops, I mean MicroSpew. On the other hand, that does not necessarily have to be the case... As we have already seen, at least a few of the ODS caches which have been examined here were intelligently placed in great settings. And, for another example, my wife Sue somehow ended up with an ODS seed last year, and she chose to make it into a 2/2 puzzle cache which tends to receive rather lengthy and effusive find logs. However, I doubt seriously that the majority of cachers who end up with an ODS seed in their hands would necesarily manage to reach the same level of quality as that seen with some of the better high-end ODS cache hides, and thus, I am VERY relieved to learn that only about 712 of the 13,000 ODS seeds have actually been emplaced and listed so far. However, even that number may be just a bit too much! :D:huh:

 

Next, I must agree with CyBret and CR (and other posters) that the thesis of one degree of separation because one has handled or found a cache which is a part of the ODS project is somewhat shaky and specious. Much like CyBret and CR, I would prefer to measure degrees of separation not by such tenuous threads but rather by criteria which are more solid and robust, such as actually meeting a cacher who has met other cachers.

 

BTW, in closing, I will note that since Sue and I know CCCA and have met Lynn many times, and Sue and I have also met most of the high-numbers cachers in MD and NoVa, and since I also once spent quite a while hanging out at an event with a West Coast cacher who regularly caches with Ventura Kid and EMC, I likely have very few degrees of separation to most cachers in the Western World! :D:D

 

Lastly, no offense to Snoogans nor anyone else, but, much like CyBret, I also made the linguistic leap to the synonymous term "odious" when I first heard of the ODS project last year! :blink::D:D

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Oh how I long for the days of the original cache, with the original "neat location". :blink:

:huh:

 

Not from most of what I've been reading.

 

:D:D:D

I was using sarcasm (not apparent to everyone) that the game has changed a lot since the first hide, and pointing out the fact that the first hide wasn't a very scenic location at all.

 

People that discuss the "new direction" of caching with distain often forget this fact.

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Oh how I long for the days of the original cache, with the original "neat location". :blink:

:huh:

 

Not from most of what I've been reading.

 

:D:D:D

I was using sarcasm (not apparent to everyone) that the game has changed a lot since the first hide, and pointing out the fact that the first hide wasn't a very scenic location at all.

 

People that discuss the "new direction" of caching with distain often forget this fact.

Yes,I realized.

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I like how some folks bring up the original cache, complete with eyerolls. Sure, it wasn't in a scenic location though far better than a lot of less-than-inspired locations I've seen, it was on private property, was partially buried, and had food. At least it was in a sturdy container, had a logbook you could document what you took and left, and ~gasp~ had trade items!

 

Let's not forget it was also a prototype, so to speak.

 

What I saw was the quality of hides start to increase over time.

 

Sure, there were the soggy, less-than-inspired regular-sized caches, but guess what, folks probably figured cache had to be a regular and have trinkets to trade otherwise is wasn't a "real" cache. Today, those same types of folks are simply tossing out micros, because for some a trinket-less cache (a micro fits the bill) in an uninspired location is good enough.

 

Personally, I'd trade a lame uninspired cache for a Original Stash-like cache any day, all day, time after time.

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Personally, I'd trade a lame uninspired cache for a Original Stash-like cache any day, all day, time after time.

Personally,if the guidelines didn't prohibit digging to hide a cache,I'd love to 3/4 bury a screw lid 6 gallon pail I've got sittin at the house when I get back.So I see eye to eye with ya there.

 

I understand the frustration with the microspew so to speak,but you could attribute it to a few things,such as folks wanting smilies,lack of originallity,and so on.What I see is that Snoog's project at least has somewhat of a goal to achieve,other than a lame hide for a smiley.

 

Nuff said.We now return you to CR and Snoog's argu debate.

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Well. I asked for this. I'm fond of saying that I never learned much from those that always agreed with me and I'm learning a great deal today. I've also confirmed (without giving too much away) that I'm already on the right track with phase 2.

 

 

Here's a perspective you don't have, since no one involved with the set-up of this project is posting to this thread as of yet. There were neat little coincidences like Doc Dean getting the cache named for Pepper to place in Florida and Pepper receiving the cache named for Doc Dean to place in Texas to name only one. There are far too many stories to list without going back and researching it all. Some were funny and some interesting. All were positive.

 

 

Folks involved with the set-up and who attended the main event got something more than a cache or a cache named for them out of it. There WERE real connections made and there is nothing about this project that is forced or false to them or to me. I was certain that this wouldn't be a case of ya had to BE there to appreciate it, but now I'm not so sure. :blink:

 

 

I hope some of them will come here and tell their One Degree of Separation stories, but I won't blame a single one that thinks twice about it. Most people can't withstand the scrutiny that a post gets in this forum. In this case I welcome it.

 

 

Hard lessons help you improve and I've learned a lesson or two today.

 

 

Now, I'm honestly failing to see some of your negative points of view, but then it IS my project and I have been nothing but positive about it for years now. I'm bound to have a scotoma about it given my investment of time in it. I still can't seem to see past it.

 

 

However, it just seems to be the same old aesthetic battle of wills. Quality vs. quantity and somewhere a signal is getting crossed. It may be me, or it may in fact be you. :D

Edited by Snoogans
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