(ODS) The One Degree of Separation Project

9.3k · May 21, 2007

I have some thoughts related to this.<edit for brevity>

Many good points. Some I agree with, others I do not. For instance, your theory about some film canisters being fairly water resistant is absolutely correct. The clear ones where the lid snaps in to the canister are great. The black ones with the grey lid that snaps over the container are carp. Judging from the pictures I've seen, (and I admit my experience is quite limited), Snoogans chose the carpy style. It's his project, so it's his choice. I wouldn't try to take his right to incorporate carp into his project away. Yet, he did ask for feedback.

You and I have differing views on what makes a container "Good", vs what makes one "Bad". That's OK. We need not agree on everything to effectively communicate. For your average Riffster, a good container is one that is likely to protect its contents in most environments. Ammo cans, bison tubes, Lock-n-Locks, decon kits, waterproof match containers and Pelican cases all meet this criteria. Most film canisters, coffee cans, Altoid tins and Gladware does not. The Litmus test for me is, will this container need to be hidden is a specific manner to help it protect its contents? If I answer "Yes", that container goes into the carp list. Heck, I could probably figure out a way to hide a Chinese food box so its contents stayed dry. That doesn't mean it's a good container, by my somewhat biased evaluation methods. In a project such as this, Snoogans has little or no control over what kind of environment his containers get hidden in, which, (in my opinion), makes container selection critical. Knowing this, he still chose carp.

While it's true that even the venerable ammo can can become a tadpole swimming hole, that would, for the most part, be caused by factors outside of Snoogans' control. Container choice during the initial phase of the project was within his control. Judging from my limited experience, an ammo can is less likely to fail at repelling moisture than a coffee can. A waterproof match container is less likely to fail than a film canister.

The protective qualities of ziplocks remains questionable at best. Almost every film canister and coffee can I've found with moisture in them had wet logs, inside ziplocks. A few had wet logs inside other types of baggies. Something I've had to do on every maintenance run I've done is to replace the ziplock in my caches. They get poked full of holes from pointy stuff in the cache, and they receive paper cuts from the logs. Having a ziplock in an inferior container only slightly prolongs the demise of the log.

Snoogans deliberately chose to use inferior containers for the project. I was just wondering why.

14.3k · May 21, 2007

The one thing I was was wondering was why equal amounts of regular, small and micro containers were not used for the project? The project would have obviously had more acceptance if he had appealed to more than mainly the micro lovers. I know that 300 regular containers were included but that pales in comparison with 12,000 micros. So why didn't they just have 300 of each size represented?

1.5k · May 21, 2007

So why didn't they just have 300 of each size represented?

That wouldn't have provided the forums with enough drama.

8.4k · May 21, 2007

"Why did Snoogans deliberately use carpy containers for this project?"
Was it because he couldn't finance 21,000 quality containers? Was it because he wanted to thumb his nose at the rest of the community by spewing knowingly inferior containers across the continent? Was it because he was traumatized by a film canister as a child? The world may never know the real truth.

As you can see in the picture below (from one of the prep events) 8 of the 20, or so, ODS ammo cans are waiting to be cleaned, painted, and loaded. I personally donated 18 of my own cans to the project.

C.R. I funded this entire effort out of my own pocket. It ran OVER $500. (Over $600 if you count the ticket I got getting the trailer to move the lot up to DFW for GW4) It has pleased well over 500 people.

AGAIN, a container is what you make of it. ALL the seed pod containers were thoroughly washed and sanded, given a base coat to protect them from UV, or covered in camo tape. Instruction was given to soak the seed pods in 10% bleach solution to further get rid of any residual food smell that remained after washing. The paint to cover nearly 300 plastic containers in a base coat and multiple layers of camo cost nearly $300. Plastic primer is EXPENSIVE.

The seeds were each checked to make sure they had a good seal. Hundreds were rejected and tossed in the trash.

Every effort was made to upgrade the quality of the containers in a massive volunteer effort.

I certainly couldn't afford to give 13,000 ammo cans away. That much is obvious. I work for an oil company. I don't own it.

Did I take a little satisfaction that the micro-haters would fixate themselves on the large number of their most hated and reviled hide being proliferated and refuse to see the larger picture of concept or the fact that there would be a HUGE amount of attrition. That they would fixate on the micros and completely ignore the fact that 300+ potential regular to large sized caches would ALSO be a result of the project. You betcha. I enjoy being right. :cry:

Edited May 21, 2007 by Snoogans

9.3k · May 21, 2007

ALL the seed pod containers were thoroughly washed and sanded, given a base coat to protect them from UV, or covered in camo tape. Instruction was given to soak the seed pods in 10% bleach solution to further get rid of any residual food smell that remained after washing.

I certainly couldn't afford to give 13,000 ammo cans away. That much is obvious. I work for an oil company. I don't own it

Kewl! That answers my question. In this instance, you placed more importance on quantity than quality. Hey, it's your project. Run it however you want. If, however, you ask for feedback on any project that expels thousands of carpy containers across the globe, don't expect all the feedback to be positive. For some of us playing this game, quality is more important than quantity. My issue with the standard film canister and coffee can has little to do with residual odors. The few unwashed food containers I've found in the wild have kwickly devolved into rodent chew toys, so I appreciate your clean up efforts. My complaint with these containers is that they are inherently non-water resistant. It is a built in flaw in the way the lid snaps into place. No amount of bleach or paint will change the fact that the lids on these containers are not suitable for repelling moisture.

Post script: Thanx for adding at least 20 quality containers to the 21,000 carpy ones.

Edited May 21, 2007 by Clan Riffster

8.4k · May 21, 2007

Post script: Thanx for adding at least 20 quality containers to the 21,000 carpy ones.

Must you continue to exaggerate? The stated figure over and OVER again is 13,000+. You have TWICE inflated the figure to 21,000 and I can't fathom whyyy?

In the 7 Habits of Highly effective people there is a concept known as "Circle of Influence." When people continually overstep the bounds of reason their circle shrinks. I've seen it in real life time and again.

You are not doing your side of the fence any favors.

BTW - ODS: PIME!'s circle of friends just broke 70. How many are on the enemies list?

Edited May 21, 2007 by Snoogans

May 21, 2007

A few months ago we made a trip up to an area to do some backpacking, and find some geocaches. We really love the area, and have always enjoyed doing all of the caches there, until we did an ODS cache. ODS became a red flag for a cache to skip. Both of the cache that we did attempt in this series before declaring them "black listed" were along a divided highway, not interstate but way too busy to be running around on. Both were micros, which is uncommon in the area, and were in areas that were questionable when considering the guidelines since both were very close to bridges. One being adjacent to a bridge and one under a bridge. I am not saying that this is the norm for this series, but it only take a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

20.7k · May 21, 2007

Kewl! That answers my question. In this instance, you placed more importance on quantity than quality. Hey, it's your project. Run it however you want. If, however, ...

Good grief. How many times are you going to make this same argument? Everyone understands your position, by now.

... Both of the cache that we did attempt in this series before declaring them "black listed" were along a divided highway, not interstate but way too busy to be running around on. Both were micros, which is uncommon in the area, and were in areas that were questionable when considering the guidelines since both were very close to bridges. One being adjacent to a bridge and one under a bridge. I am not saying that this is the norm for this series, but it only take a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

Snoogans can hardly be responsible for every hide location. That being said, it should be noted that every bridge in existence is not verboten. Regarding them being micros which are 'uncommon for the area', I ould think that uncommon caches would be good caches. Most people that fight against 'lame' caches argue that one cause of 'lameness' is that the cache is somehow overdone. Edited May 21, 2007 by sbell111

8.4k · May 21, 2007

A few months ago we made a trip up to an area to do some backpacking, and find some geocaches. We really love the area, and have always enjoyed doing all of the caches there, until we did an ODS cache. ODS became a red flag for a cache to skip. Both of the cache that we did attempt in this series before declaring them "black listed" were along a divided highway, not interstate but way too busy to be running around on. Both were micros, which is uncommon in the area, and were in areas that were questionable when considering the guidelines since both were very close to bridges. One being adjacent to a bridge and one under a bridge. I am not saying that this is the norm for this series, but it only take a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

Again, name association. Guilt by association.

Where a person chooses to hide a cache has nothing at all to do with this project. It is a personal choice. I am not responsible for people making poor choices. Neither did the project influence their choice. If you found the hides so questionable, why then didn't you post an SBA and get a reviewer involved? I see one ODS cache find in your profile. Did you find the other?

Edited May 21, 2007 by Snoogans

May 21, 2007

A few months ago we made a trip up to an area to do some backpacking, and find some geocaches. We really love the area, and have always enjoyed doing all of the caches there, until we did an ODS cache. ODS became a red flag for a cache to skip. Both of the cache that we did attempt in this series before declaring them "black listed" were along a divided highway, not interstate but way too busy to be running around on. Both were micros, which is uncommon in the area, and were in areas that were questionable when considering the guidelines since both were very close to bridges. One being adjacent to a bridge and one under a bridge. I am not saying that this is the norm for this series, but it only take a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

Again, name association. Guilt by association.

Where a person chooses to hide a cache has nothing at all to do with this project. It is a personal choice. I am not responsible for people making poor choices. Neither did the project influence their choice. If you found the hides so questionable, why then didn't you post an SBA and get a reviewer involved? BTW- Your profile shows NO ODS cache finds. Can you explain why? Or did I miss something?

As stated I skipped them, saw that it wasn't in a good spot and instead of legitimizing them by searching for them then logging a find I just moved on to the next cache. Also I want to point out that I clearly also stated that we have only seen a couple of these caches and don't know anything about others, just that our experiences with the few that we did run across have scared the ODS reputation for us.

1.5k · May 21, 2007

Did I take a little satisfaction that the micro-haters would fixate themselves on the large number of their most hated and reviled hide being proliferated and refuse to see the larger picture of concept or the fact that there would be a HUGE amount of attrition. That they would fixate on the micros and completely ignore the fact that 300+ potential regular to large sized caches would ALSO be a result of the project. You betcha. I enjoy being right.

So you feel those of us who dislike low quality micros should somehow be thankful that you've provided us 300 regular caches to hunt, even though their sole existence is only to spew out the types of caches we dislike?

:anicute:

I think you're missing the fact that for some of us, quality is the driving factor behind our geocaching. Not container size, not quantity. QUALITY. That's the one ingredient that's missing from the ODS recipe.

8.4k · May 21, 2007

A few months ago we made a trip up to an area to do some backpacking, and find some geocaches. We really love the area, and have always enjoyed doing all of the caches there, until we did an ODS cache. ODS became a red flag for a cache to skip. Both of the cache that we did attempt in this series before declaring them "black listed" were along a divided highway, not interstate but way too busy to be running around on. Both were micros, which is uncommon in the area, and were in areas that were questionable when considering the guidelines since both were very close to bridges. One being adjacent to a bridge and one under a bridge. I am not saying that this is the norm for this series, but it only take a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

Again, name association. Guilt by association.

Where a person chooses to hide a cache has nothing at all to do with this project. It is a personal choice. I am not responsible for people making poor choices. Neither did the project influence their choice. If you found the hides so questionable, why then didn't you post an SBA and get a reviewer involved? BTW- Your profile shows NO ODS cache finds. Can you explain why? Or did I miss something?

As stated I skipped them, saw that it wasn't in a good spot and instead of legitimizing them by searching for them then logging a find I just moved on to the next cache. Also I want to point out that I clearly also stated that we have only seen a couple of these caches and don't know anything about others, just that our experiences with the few that we did run across have scared the ODS reputation for us.

Wow. Ya skipped 'em and passed judgement on the entire project on a drive bye. Way to be open minded.

BTW- I edited my response you quoted, but not in time. You DID legitimize one ODS cache. Wanna go back and delete your find? :anicute:

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

1.4k · May 21, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

3.9k · May 21, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

1.4k · May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. The point I was trying to make was that the OP posting/boasting a very large number of "caches distributed" like this was a great thing for geocaching. I felt he was glossing over the obvious downside to encouraging this type of hide in these numbers and said as much. In fact, I would be shocked if the OP did not consider that many people would not support an effort like this.

As for my comment on GSAK filtering, I do think this is a good thing and was being sincere with this being an upside to the way the project is adminsitered. Unlike a lot of hides of this nature, it can be filtered out. So all of you that say "just don't hunt them if you don't like them" actually have a point this time. I wish every film canister could be filtered out in the same way so I could ignore them. It's a good thing. No slam. It is a good thing. Got it?

As for selectively slamming someone, interesting how you just skipped over the post where I agreed to disagree with OP on the ODS concept but then complemented the OP for keeping the discourse on a fairly controversial topic above the belt. Something maybe you could try sometime?

has I have already had constructive and not

1.4k · May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among most cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS hide but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the ODS cache. The point I was trying to make was that the OP posting/boasting a very large number of "caches distributed" like this was a great thing for geocaching. I felt he was glossing over the obvious downside to encouraging this type of hide in these numbers and said as much. In fact, I would be shocked if the OP did not consider that many people would not support an effort like this when he launched it.

As for my comment on GSAK filtering, I do think this is a good thing and was being sincere with this being an upside to the way the project is administered. Unlike a lot of hides of this nature, it CAN actually be filtered out. So all of you that say "just don't hunt them if you don't like them" actually have a point this time. I wish every film canister could be filtered out in the same way so I could ignore them. It's a good thing. No slam. It is a good thing. Got it?

Speaking of selectively slamming someone, interesting how you just skipped over the next post I made where I agreed to disagree with OP on the ODS concept but then complemented him for keeping the discourse on a fairly controversial topic above the belt. Something maybe you could try sometime?

Edited May 22, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

From the OP:

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU.

I think you could call these posts thoughts AND comments. Opinions were requested, but it seems like they are not really desired.

8.4k · May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

From the OP:

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU.

I think you could call these posts thoughts AND comments. Opinions were requested, but it seems like they are not really desired.

I believe I've said several times that I expected this.

Did I desire it? Uh, no.

Do I need everyone to love it so I can feel actualized? Ummm, no.

Will the negative opinions help me improve phase 2? Hmmmm, somewhat. I've learned some stuff. However, not much has been said so far that I have not already addressed in planning phase 2, but I can't help but wonder what folks will find to complain about when phase 2 is launched.

This experience has shown me that no matter how many balls I hit back over the net, there's always someone willing to try a bank shot or to roll a ball under the net. That's okay. I can play the game.

I started this thread and for good or ill ALL the responses are desired. It has already helped me organize my thoughts and plans for phase 2. :laughing:

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

14.3k · May 22, 2007

The one thing I was was wondering was why equal amounts of regular, small and micro containers were not used for the project? The project would have obviously had more acceptance if he had appealed to more than mainly the micro lovers. I know that 300 regular containers were included but that pales in comparison with 12,000 micros. So why didn't they just have 300 of each size represented?

Are you going to answer my question? I thought it was a fair question... :laughing:

8.4k · May 22, 2007

The one thing I was was wondering was why equal amounts of regular, small and micro containers were not used for the project? The project would have obviously had more acceptance if he had appealed to more than mainly the micro lovers. I know that 300 regular containers were included but that pales in comparison with 12,000 micros. So why didn't they just have 300 of each size represented?
Are you going to answer my question? I thought it was a fair question...

Actually, no. I hadn't planned to answer that. Your question wasn't so much of a question. It was more like Monday morning quarterbacking. The project is what it is not what you think it should be.

There. I've answered both of your questions. :anicute:

14.3k · May 22, 2007

The one thing I was was wondering was why equal amounts of regular, small and micro containers were not used for the project? The project would have obviously had more acceptance if he had appealed to more than mainly the micro lovers. I know that 300 regular containers were included but that pales in comparison with 12,000 micros. So why didn't they just have 300 of each size represented?
Are you going to answer my question? I thought it was a fair question...
Actually, no. I hadn't planned to answer that. Your question wasn't so much of a question. It was more like Monday morning quarterbacking. The project is what it is not what you think it should be. There. I've answered both of your questions.

Do you really think that it's just what I think? Whoa, I'm not going to argue...I'm not going to argue... :laughing:

8.4k · May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among most cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS hide but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the ODS cache. The point I was trying to make was that the OP posting/boasting a very large number of "caches distributed" like this was a great thing for geocaching. I felt he was glossing over the obvious downside to encouraging this type of hide in these numbers and said as much. In fact, I would be shocked if the OP did not consider that many people would not support an effort like this when he launched it.

Well, you keep going on about the woman's behavior as if it mattered to the overall merit of the project. I don't understand why you keep trying to make that connection instead of recognizing them as separate things, but that's actually not why I'm responding.

That last part in red is why I'm responding. I believe this is the first time I have EVER written this:

My private unstated goal for ODS was to have 1,000 caches hidden in the name of the project. Who else can claim they motivated cachers to place 1,000 caches of their own free will? (insert balloon inflating sound effect) I can't help wondering if anyone is jealous of the 715 already placed. Naaa, no one would get jealous when someone stands up before the community and claims to have achieved something they never would have thought of let alone been able to organize and execute with nothing more than a little over $500, a promise of hard work, free soda, bottled water, cheese-its, brownie bites and a quarter mile walk to the nearest restroom. Would they? :anicute:

I believe phase 1 will achieve that goal and then some in another 6 to 8 months at the rate it's currently going and starting to slow down. That's when phase 2 rolls out. It will be an improvement, but it still won't be for everyone. I could care less about pleasing everyone.

Like a person who figures out the odds of winning the grand prize in a drawing, I KNEW I needed to release far more caches than I ever expected to see get placed. I figured that 10% participation would be a good bet. SO, to get 1000 caches placed, I needed to release AT LEAST 10,000 caches.

When all was said and done, the first count was 12,112 mircros and 282 seed pod caches. I added 18 of my own ammo cans to round the figure to 300, but the micros and larger containers kept coming in and I still had log sheets. No definitive count was made after the first one. I settled on 12,500+ for the micro number and 300+ for the seed pod number. The figure of 13,000+ is quite accurate. It could easily be 13,500 to 14,000 or more. No definitive recount was made, so I will only claim the lowest number I'm sure of.

The last time I crunched the numbers, ODS was growing by 1 new cache published every 10.5 hours and that was down from 1 new cache every 6.3 hours at the beginning of the project. I believe the project is still growing by 1 cache every 12 to 13 hours.

It's a good thing I ended up 30% above my mark, because it's looking like it was needed to achieve my personal goal for devoting all the time and money I did to the project. So yes, to answer your question, I didn't expect overwhelming support. I think it's funny that some folks seem to feel geocaching is somehow threatened about the small percentage of support the project IS getting. I believe the hidden message is "DON'T DARE TO BE DIFFERENT." Sorry folks, but that sounds like a challenge to me.

The project has merit. It does....not because I say so, but because hundreds of people are willing to participate. This thread is NOT the project. The project is out there geocaching and it's still growing by the hour regardless of the negative comments on this thread. Ummmm, nanners. :laughing:

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

1.4k · May 22, 2007

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among most cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS hide but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the ODS cache. The point I was trying to make was that the OP posting/boasting a very large number of "caches distributed" like this was a great thing for geocaching. I felt he was glossing over the obvious downside to encouraging this type of hide in these numbers and said as much. In fact, I would be shocked if the OP did not consider that many people would not support an effort like this when he launched it.

Well, you keep going on about the woman's behavior as if it mattered to the overall merit of the project. I don't understand why you keep trying to make that connection instead of recognizing them as separate things, but that's actually not why I'm responding.

I didn't bring it up randomly. One of your supporters decided he would slam me for slamming you. Otherwise, I said I what I needed to say.

That last part in red is why I'm responding. I believe this is the first time I have EVER written this:

]My private unstated goal for ODS was to have 1,000 caches hidden in the name of the project. Who else can claim they motivated cachers to place 1,000 caches of their own free will? (insert balloon inflating sound effect)

Actually I felt a little better about it when I didn't know this. I am sorry and correct me if I am mistaken but this all of the sudden sounds like it is your own personal ride on the ego-a-round.

I can't help wondering if anyone is jealous of the 715 already placed. Naaa, no one would get jealous when someone stands up before the community and claims to have achieved something they never would have thought of let alone been able to organize and execute with nothing more than a little over $500, a promise of hard work, free soda, bottled water, cheese-its, brownie bites and a quarter mile walk to the nearest restroom. Would they?

I would like enter my name on the "not jealous" list. I spend months on creating one of my caches. If there is one person that finds it and enjoys it, I feel fulfilled.

I believe phase 1 will achieve that goal and then some in another 6 to 8 months at the rate it's currently going and starting to slow down. That's when phase 2 rolls out. It will be an improvement, but it still won't be for everyone. I could care less about pleasing everyone.

It looks like your personal goals will be actualized. Congrats. You've definitely made your mark.

Like a person who figures out the odds of winning the grand prize in a drawing, I KNEW I needed to release far more caches than I ever expected to see get placed. I figured that 10% participation would be a good bet. SO, to get 1000 caches placed, I needed to release AT LEAST 10,000 caches.

I find your use of "I" a little spooky.

When all was said and done, the first count was 12,112 mircros and 282 seed pod caches. I added 18 of my own ammo cans to round the figure to 300, but the micros and larger containers kept coming in and I still had log sheets. No definitive count was made after the first one. I settled on 12,500+ for the micro number and 300+ for the seed pod number. The figure of 13,000+ is quite accurate. It could easily be 13,500 to 14,000 or more. No definitive recount was made, so I will only claim the lowest number I'm sure of.

Whatever the number, that's a lot, I will give you that.

It's a good thing I ended up 30% above my mark, because it's looking like it was needed to achieve my personal goal for devoting all the time and money I did to the project. So yes, to answer your question, I didn't expect overwhelming support. I think it's funny that some folks seem to feel geocaching is somehow threatened about the small percentage of support the project IS getting. I believe the hidden message is "DON'T DARE TO BE DIFFERENT." Sorry folks, but that sounds like a challenge to me.

I don't think you could be farther off base in this statement. All you have done is dare to be different in finding a way to spread the ordinary.

Ummmm, nanners.

It sounds as if you have united some and divided just as many. If that is the definition of success then you definitely were and are successful. Without question, you definitely did "something." What I refuse to accept is your insinuation of widespread support or value for geocaching as a whole.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

8.4k · May 22, 2007

Like a person who figures out the odds of winning the grand prize in a drawing, I KNEW I needed to release far more caches than I ever expected to see get placed. I figured that 10% participation would be a good bet. SO, to get 1000 caches placed, I needed to release AT LEAST 10,000 caches.

I find your use of "I" a little spooky.

What's spooky about it? I have acknowledged every person who helped in the project, but no one fed me those figures. That was my own skill at handicapping the odds. Back meet pat. How should I have said it to unspookify it for you? :laughing:

BTW- your post was reeeeally hard to wade through. Can you fix it?

1.4k · May 22, 2007

BTW- your post was reeeeally hard to wade through. Can you fix it?

Done.

May 22, 2007

Again, I would love to hide one of those pods or seeds here in BC. The next nearest one in Canada is only a micro. I'm more than happy to wait for the next blitz to be sent one. I'm just impressed with the variety and creativity of cachers in the area and world wide. Some of the caches I've seen both on this sight and in the wild have been incredible. That ammo can on the previous page was great too. I'd like to learn how to make ones like that and others just to drive other cachers nuts.

Keep it up!

8.4k · May 22, 2007

Keep it up!

Of that there is no doubt. :laughing:

5.6k · May 22, 2007

Did I take a little satisfaction that the micro-haters would fixate themselves on the large number of their most hated and reviled hide being proliferated and refuse to see the larger picture of concept or the fact that there would be a HUGE amount of attrition. That they would fixate on the micros and completely ignore the fact that 300+ potential regular to large sized caches would ALSO be a result of the project. You betcha. I enjoy being right.

So you feel those of us who dislike low quality micros should somehow be thankful that you've provided us 300 regular caches to hunt, even though their sole existence is only to spew out the types of caches we dislike?

I think you're missing the fact that for some of us, quality is the driving factor behind our geocaching. Not container size, not quantity. QUALITY. That's the one ingredient that's missing from the ODS recipe.

But it's not missing, it needs to be added by the hider of an ODS cache. Just because a container is ordinary doesn't mean the cache is ordinary. If that were the case, then every ammo can hide would be ordinary - and should be then filtered out of your to-be-found caches.

One of the ODS caches I found I bet would set off every warning light in the micro-bashers brain. Side of the road guardrail, film can hide. Oh! How horrible! Can anything be done about hides like this?! Of course, this was in Eastern Washington where the rainfall/moisture problem isn't very much. The hide was somewhat different from the typical guardrail, which also protected the cache even farther from whatever rain does occur. And the view across Lake Chelan to the hills right across and up lake to the Cascdes was good. Still it's a "bad" ODS cache, so must be ignored.

You guys need to seperate the hide from the project. Snoogans just supplied the container(s) to people, it's up the them to make something of it. For all you who are complaining that ODS caches are horrible, get one of them and make a great cache out of it. Do something to improve what you think isn't "good". Isn't that what you've been pushing in all those other bashing threads? In other words - put up, or shut up.

3.9k · May 22, 2007

Speaking of selectively slamming someone, interesting how you just skipped over the next post I made where I agreed to disagree with OP on the ODS concept but then complemented him for keeping the discourse on a fairly controversial topic above the belt.

I didn't "skip over it", I just didn't realize if I commented on something you said in a thread I had to comment on everything you said. Okay, I'll comment on that too.

Way to complement Snoogans on keeping the post above the belt. Good job!

Anyway, I still don't understand why you even needed to come into the thread and tell him that the only good thing about it is that you can filter out the ODS caches. How is slamming him like that considered constructive critisizm or even giving him comments?

Something maybe you could try sometime?

Sure. I'll strive to be more like you.

:laughing:

1.4k · May 22, 2007

Did I take a little satisfaction that the micro-haters would fixate themselves on the large number of their most hated and reviled hide being proliferated and refuse to see the larger picture of concept or the fact that there would be a HUGE amount of attrition. That they would fixate on the micros and completely ignore the fact that 300+ potential regular to large sized caches would ALSO be a result of the project. You betcha. I enjoy being right.

So you feel those of us who dislike low quality micros should somehow be thankful that you've provided us 300 regular caches to hunt, even though their sole existence is only to spew out the types of caches we dislike?

I think you're missing the fact that for some of us, quality is the driving factor behind our geocaching. Not container size, not quantity. QUALITY. That's the one ingredient that's missing from the ODS recipe.

But it's not missing, it needs to be added by the hider of an ODS cache. Just because a container is ordinary doesn't mean the cache is ordinary. If that were the case, then every ammo can hide would be ordinary - and should be then filtered out of your to-be-found caches.

One of the ODS caches I found I bet would set off every warning light in the micro-bashers brain. Side of the road guardrail, film can hide. Oh! How horrible! Can anything be done about hides like this?! Of course, this was in Eastern Washington where the rainfall/moisture problem isn't very much. The hide was somewhat different from the typical guardrail, which also protected the cache even farther from whatever rain does occur. And the view across Lake Chelan to the hills right across and up lake to the Cascdes was good. Still it's a "bad" ODS cache, so must be ignored.

You guys need to seperate the hide from the project. Snoogans just supplied the container(s) to people, it's up the them to make something of it. For all you who are complaining that ODS caches are horrible, get one of them and make a great cache out of it. Do something to improve what you think isn't "good". Isn't that what you've been pushing in all those other bashing threads? In other words - put up, or shut up.

I wonder what percentage of well thought out caches start with a film canister? Can it be done, sure. But what you are saying is counter-intuitive. If I am going to start off a well thought out cache, I am going to start with a container that is going to last.

May 22, 2007

Well, I have read the entire thread, and stayed awake. I don't agree with all these micros being dispersed to be hidden. It is no secret that a majority of the caching community doesn't like micros. I most certainly wouldn't want to see it spread across our state, as we have too many lame micros here as it is. HOWEVER, it is YOUR project to do with what you want...if I were to do one, I would change a few things.

I would have filled each and everyone of those film canisters with a mini-log sheet, a small ziplock bag, and a small pencil. I would have encouraged people to use them to replace some of the THOUSANDS of existing film canisters that aren't being maintained as it is. Then, I would be known as the person who SAVED thousands of non-maintained caches, not the one who encouraged them.

edited to add: No, I will NOT be doing this project, because, well...I simply can't afford it.

Edited May 22, 2007 by The Herd

3.9k · May 22, 2007

I wonder what percentage of well thought out caches start with a film canister? Can it be done, sure. But what you are saying is counter-intuitive. If I am going to start off a well thought out cache, I am going to start with a container that is going to last.

Hijacking another thread with the "micro = lame" argument?

May 22, 2007

I regularly geocache in our neighboring states. A year ago we found a great variety of caches in the area, not just in size, but in styles of hides, camouflage, terrain, and difficulty. We enjoyed visiting as we always did, due to the time and effort the locals put into their hides, which were usually ammo cans, sturdy plastic boxes, bison capsules or other durable containers. There had already been seed caches created by locals, the idea of which the finders embraced and showed great imagination in continuing when they hid its 'children'.

Then this year someone imported an ODiouS seed cache. In their favor, it was not a discarded coffee canister but rather an ammo can. And the film canisters were each painted with a different animal, and the hides from the seed cache were all named for their critter. Sadly, this attempt to make a bunch of disposable film canisters more interesting had only a short-lived benefit. By the time we found them, the paint was flaking off and their previous beauty was barely recognizable.

But what I found most noteworthy was that even though these film canisters were hidden by many of the same folks whose previous hides I recall fondly, none of the ODiouS caches stand out. None were even particularly interesting. Caching in the area now seems repetitive as we go from cache to cache with much the same identical little hides in much the same sort of drive-up spots. Oh, a few of the owners tried, as the hider of the seed container tried when they painted canisters. But for all the ones we found, none were up to their usual standards. I wonder why that is. Other hides by the same folks in the same time period showed their usual talent for placing interesting caches so it wasn't wide-spread burnout. Perhaps the film canisters, despite their paint jobs, did not inspire special effort. Perhaps the owners felt rushed to place the containers anywhere just to get them out. Perhaps there is some other reason each and every ODiouS cache I've found so far has been below par.

But if it's not the local 'style' and it's not the cachers placing the containers, perhaps it has something to do with the series itself.

8.4k · May 22, 2007

I regularly geocache in our neighboring states. A year ago we found a great variety of caches in the area, not just in size, but in styles of hides, camouflage, terrain, and difficulty. We enjoyed visiting as we always did, due to the time and effort the locals put into their hides, which were usually ammo cans, sturdy plastic boxes, bison capsules or other durable containers. There had already been seed caches created by locals, the idea of which the finders embraced and showed great imagination in continuing when they hid its 'children'.

Then this year someone imported an ODiouS seed cache. In their favor, it was not a discarded coffee canister but rather an ammo can. And the film canisters were each painted with a different animal, and the hides from the seed cache were all named for their critter. Sadly, this attempt to make a bunch of disposable film canisters more interesting had only a short-lived benefit. By the time we found them, the paint was flaking off and their previous beauty was barely recognizable.

But what I found most noteworthy was that even though these film canisters were hidden by many of the same folks whose previous hides I recall fondly, none of the ODiouS caches stand out. None were even particularly interesting. Caching in the area now seems repetitive as we go from cache to cache with much the same identical little hides in much the same sort of drive-up spots. Oh, a few of the owners tried, as the hider of the seed container tried when they painted canisters. But for all the ones we found, none were up to their usual standards. I wonder why that is. Other hides by the same folks in the same time period showed their usual talent for placing interesting caches so it wasn't wide-spread burnout. Perhaps the film canisters, despite their paint jobs, did not inspire special effort. Perhaps the owners felt rushed to place the containers anywhere just to get them out. Perhaps there is some other reason each and every ODiouS cache I've found so far has been below par.

But if it's not the local 'style' and it's not the cachers placing the containers, perhaps it has something to do with the series itself.

Wow. Just freakin' wow. :laughing:

You've managed to connect ODS with the destruction of the very geocaching spirit within your local geocaching continuum. Incredible. Sigh. How do I respond to that one? :anicute:

I'll get back to you if I can find something graceful and constructive to say. (where is the shaking my head in wonderment emoticon?)

Nope, I gotta ask..... Is Santa still okay? :wub:

May 22, 2007

You've managed to connect ODS with the destruction of the very geocaching spirit within your local geocaching continuum. Incredible. Sigh. How do I respond to that one?

Snoogans, were you lying when you said ...

I decided to keep as quiet as I possibly could about ODS until the project could stand alone on it's own merit. I believe that as the 1 year anniversary approaches, that time has come.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU. smile.gif

If you really want folks' 'thoughts, comments, and questions', then why are you trying to attack every legitimate response that is not unadulterated glowing support?

I said that the local 'geocaching spirit' was just fine when they hid caches that were not part of the ODiouS project. It was the film canisters placed as part of your project that were all sub par. Again, if it's not the cachers (they can obviously still place good caches) and it's not the local style (caches there have traditionally been a treat to find), then why do their ODiouS caches suck?

Get back to me when you actually want my thoughts and comments.

May 22, 2007

I regularly geocache in our neighboring states. A year ago we found a great variety of caches in the area, not just in size, but in styles of hides, camouflage, terrain, and difficulty. We enjoyed visiting as we always did, due to the time and effort the locals put into their hides, which were usually ammo cans, sturdy plastic boxes, bison capsules or other durable containers. There had already been seed caches created by locals, the idea of which the finders embraced and showed great imagination in continuing when they hid its 'children'.

Then this year someone imported an ODiouS seed cache. In their favor, it was not a discarded coffee canister but rather an ammo can. And the film canisters were each painted with a different animal, and the hides from the seed cache were all named for their critter. Sadly, this attempt to make a bunch of disposable film canisters more interesting had only a short-lived benefit. By the time we found them, the paint was flaking off and their previous beauty was barely recognizable.

But what I found most noteworthy was that even though these film canisters were hidden by many of the same folks whose previous hides I recall fondly, none of the ODiouS caches stand out. None were even particularly interesting. Caching in the area now seems repetitive as we go from cache to cache with much the same identical little hides in much the same sort of drive-up spots. Oh, a few of the owners tried, as the hider of the seed container tried when they painted canisters. But for all the ones we found, none were up to their usual standards. I wonder why that is. Other hides by the same folks in the same time period showed their usual talent for placing interesting caches so it wasn't wide-spread burnout. Perhaps the film canisters, despite their paint jobs, did not inspire special effort. Perhaps the owners felt rushed to place the containers anywhere just to get them out. Perhaps there is some other reason each and every ODiouS cache I've found so far has been below par.

But if it's not the local 'style' and it's not the cachers placing the containers, perhaps it has something to do with the series itself.

Wow. Just freakin' wow.

You've managed to connect ODS with the destruction of the very geocaching spirit within your local geocaching continuum. Incredible. Sigh. How do I respond to that one?

I'll get back to you if I can find something graceful and constructive to say. (where is the shaking my head in wonderment emoticon?)

Nope, I gotta ask..... Is Santa still okay?

C'mon. That response is a little over the top. He didn't say anything close to that.

8.4k · May 22, 2007

You've managed to connect ODS with the destruction of the very geocaching spirit within your local geocaching continuum. Incredible. Sigh. How do I respond to that one?

Snoogans, were you lying when you said ...

I decided to keep as quiet as I possibly could about ODS until the project could stand alone on it's own merit. I believe that as the 1 year anniversary approaches, that time has come.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? If you have NEVER heard of this project, I'd really like to hear from YOU. smile.gif

If you really want folks' 'thoughts, comments, and questions', then why are you trying to attack every legitimate response that is not unadulterated glowing support?

I said that the local 'geocaching spirit' was just fine when they hid caches that were not part of the ODiouS project. It was the film canisters placed as part of your project that were all sub par. Again, if it's not the cachers (they can obviously still place good caches) and it's not the local style (caches there have traditionally been a treat to find), then why do their ODiouS caches suck?

Get back to me when you actually want my thoughts and comments.

Ya know. I've been very civil..... But seriously, practice saying that monologue you previously posted in the mirror and tryyy to keep a straight face. You are welcome to post here, but if your post has a handle on it, is pointy on the end, and might be good for digging, I'm gonna call a spade a spade.

What else have ya got? :anicute:

9.4k · May 22, 2007

I've met Snoogans. There, one degree of separation and I didn't even have to find one of the 13,000+ caches that were part of this experiment :laughing:

8.4k · May 22, 2007

I've met Snoogans. There, one degree of separation and I didn't even have to find one of the 13,000+ caches that were part of this experiment

Hahahaha! GOTCHA!

There are some interesting logs on that cache. I particurlarly like this one for folks that claim the connections are artificial: (there's also testimony to the caches water resistant quality Clan R)

November 16, 2006 by <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline" name=20796988>Texas Dreamweaver (702 found)

Finally, this is the cache fivesecrethunters and I were looking for. Having just left "They Came from the North" we actually drove out of the area and went the long way to get here. Proof we are starting to lose it.

We wanted to grab this cache since as personal friends of Snoogans (the ODS organizer), we have special obligations. Besides LJTXHiker is a friend of ours and chances are good that I personally loaded the seeds into this pod.

Found the container fairly quick since all of the recent rain had it FLOATING. Retrieving this one was a little tricky and we just knew that all of the contents would be soaked. NOT SO. All of the swag and seeds were dry. Signed the log and took a travel bug. We placed the container back into what we hope would be a non-floating location. This is 16 of 20 on what is beginning to be a LONG WET Nashville evening. Next stop Redo DalmatiAn #59.

BTW- That's the same cache CyBret mentioned earlier.

May 22, 2007

BTW - ODS: PIME!'s circle of friends just broke 70. How many are on the enemies list?

may I have a link to the enemies list that doesn't care for these?

Edited May 22, 2007 by TeamBarstool

May 22, 2007

This at least is an interesting read and a telling forecast of where this whole geocaching activity is headed as it moves forward and grows into the mainstream. I am reminded somehow of pork-barrel politics, adapting and refining an established course of action to suit a few interested parties. I don't expect this "project" will affect me personally, except, of course, when these cheap micros start polluting my backyard.

I realize my 'noob' opinion will quickly be discounted here, but to me it seems like an interesting theory being executed with litter.

May 22, 2007

I commend Snoogs for holding his own in the face of condemnation by the posters.The man has no control how the seeds are place,so if they become crap or gems depends on the placer,not the originator.I personally would use it possibly as a first leg of a multi,leading to somethingelse.I'd use some creativity.Maybe some folks aren't creative.Maybe someone believes their hide is good.Not everyone can come to the forums to have their spirit broken.Not everyone researches the forums for "The right way" to hide micros.

Edited May 22, 2007 by vtmtnman

May 22, 2007

Ya know. I've been very civil.....

No, no you really haven't been.

You are welcome to post here,

Very kind of you to grant me permission to post in a forum that you have no moderator powers for.

but if your post has a handle on it, is pointy on the end, and might be good for digging, I'm gonna call a spade a spade.

Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. You supposedly start this thread to solicit opinions about your ongoing project. You are doing yourself no favors by jumping on each and every post that does not paint your ODiouS caches in the best possible light. If you really want folks' responses, then let them respond already. This thread would be half as long as it is currently if you would accept criticism gracefully rather than try and argue with each and every post by each and every person with a contrary position. If you just want a suck-up fest where posting is limited to only those who think your film canisters are the best thing since global positioning satellites, then go start a thread specifically for that purpose. I promise to stay out of it. I'll also stay out of any threads created solely for mindlessly bashing your project.

I posted here because you asked for people to give their thoughts regarding ODiouS caches. If you didn't want truthful responses, you shouldn't have asked for them.

What else have ya got?

I don't 'got' anything. This isn't some verbal Fight Club where I smack you around with my satirical repartee and you stagger back, shake it off, and advance with, 'Is that it? That's all ya got?' before smacking me down in return. If you want mindless debate, there are other arenas set aside for it.

What I have are my comments regarding actual ODiouS caches placed in an area I know well. They aren't some vague, 'Oh My God, you're flooding the world with seventy gajillion pieces of geotrash!' fears. They are thoughts and concerns based on my actual observations of your project in the field. I'm sorry if you aren't happy to hear my account, but your feelings do not invalidate my personal experiences.

1.4k · May 22, 2007

Speaking of selectively slamming someone, interesting how you just skipped over the next post I made where I agreed to disagree with OP on the ODS concept but then complemented him for keeping the discourse on a fairly controversial topic above the belt.
I didn't "skip over it", I just didn't realize if I commented on something you said in a thread I had to comment on everything you said. Okay, I'll comment on that too.

Way to complement Snoogans on keeping the post above the belt. Good job!

Anyway, I still don't understand why you even needed to come into the thread and tell him that the only good thing about it is that you can filter out the ODS caches. How is slamming him like that considered constructive critisizm or even giving him comments?

Something maybe you could try sometime?
Sure. I'll strive to be more like you.

I find it ironic that you are slamming me for slamming him. Come to think of it, if you didn't slam me we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you don't mind, I think I will pretend you didn't slam me so we won't have this conversation.

May 22, 2007

My opinion on the ODS idea is that it is not original, not particularly well thought out, not clever in any way and lacks entirely the "I wish I thought of that!" factor. It's only remarkable feature is the sheer obscene size of the project.

If you really want folks' 'thoughts, comments, and questions', then why are you trying to attack every legitimate response that is not unadulterated glowing support?

This is a very insightful comment. I was not able to slog through the entire thread, so this may not be an original observation but the whole project and this thread appear not to be about the caches but making Snoogans himself the center of attention.

JohnX

9.3k · May 22, 2007

The stated figure is 13,000+.

Sorry Brother! Bad math day. I'm not sure where that 21K came from. Alzheimer's maybe? Thanx for being gentle with me.

(ya know, on a side note, any figure larger than 13,000, would technically qualify as 13,000+, including 21,000)

OK guys, listen up! No more screw ups! It's 20 good caches in 13,000, not 21,000!

I can't help wondering if anyone is jealous of the 715 already placed.

Jealous? You can't be serious. Is your ego so inflated that you envision jealousy simply because someone might not be keen about having 12,112 shiny new film canisters spewn upon the wind? (is "spewn even a word?) Could there possibly be some other reason for the discontent? Here's a clue for ya, Brother; your detractors seem to be folks who don't think too highly of carpy containers. As such, it stands to reason that they would not be jealous of someone else infecting the globe with thousands upon thousands of carpy containers. You were dead on when you suggested some folks couldn't even imagine doing this project. I'm one of those who couldn't imagine doing it. I also couldn't imagine beating up little old ladies or eating fried bald eagle. (unless it came with some real good BBQ sauce) The very thought is repugnant to me. Does that sound like jealousy to you? Now, take the very same project. Assume for argument sake that you just won the lottery. Put out 300 ammo cans containing 12,112 match containers or bison tubes, and I would be bowing at your feet, chanting "YouDaMan, YouDaMan". The issue isn't the project. I think the concept is kinda kewl. The issue isn't your bloated ego. Mine is every bit as bloated. The issue is you deliberately chose to use carpy containers 13,000 times.

(woops...more bad math...what's 13,000 - 20? Ahhh 12,980 times)

I believe the hidden message is "DON'T DARE TO BE DIFFERENT."

No sir. The hidden message is, "DON"T HIDE CARP"

But it's not missing, it needs to be added by the hider of an ODS cache.

The only way the project can achieve anything resembling quality is if the hider tosses out the carpy container and substitutes a good one?

Hijacking another thread with the "micro = lame" argument?

Actually, if you'll read his post, it was more along the line of, carpy containers are lame, regardless of size. There are many quality micro containers available for folks who want to hide them, they just don't happen to be any in the ODiouS project.

I posted here because you asked for people to give their thoughts regarding ODiouS caches. If you didn't want truthful responses, you shouldn't have asked for them.

That statement is truly, a thing of beauty.

May 22, 2007

I find it interesting that the group of free thinkers that generalise micros as lame, have resisted the urge to jump on using the description of ODiouS.

I also intensely dislike people who hate anything. It's such a "lame" emotion

Amused myself anyway.

9.3k · May 22, 2007

I find it interesting that the group of free thinkers that generalize micros as lame, have resisted the urge to jump on using the description of ODiouS.

I would find it hilarious if the forums started replacing the word "Lame" with the word "ODiouS"

8.4k · May 22, 2007

[
I believe the hidden message is "DON'T DARE TO BE DIFFERENT."

No sir. The hidden message is, "DON"T HIDE CARP"

I've hidden 2 ODS caches and hosted 3 ODS events. I stand behind the quality of MY hides and my hosted events.

I can't nor can the project be rationally held accountable for individual hide quality. You can accentuate the negative by attacking the containers, but I've proven that efforts were made to release a cache that is worthy of being hidden. These types of containers were in use BEFORE this project was launched.

Again, a hide is what the individual makes of it. No form of instruction was given about how to hide caches in this project. As pointed out before, the project provided a container, an official log sheet, a suggested page format, and a suggested cache title format.

I reject your arguments based on individual hides reflecting on the project. Individual hides reflect on the individual and that includes maintenance issues.

I reject your arguments that the quality of the 13,000+ caches is poor. While I understand that there are differing schools of thought pertaining to what is and isn't worthy of hiding, I believe that every effort was made to raise the fitness to be hidden of the containers that were used. As recycling efforts go, this project was very small, but in my experience of geocaching, the vast majority of containers have been recycled from other uses. Throughout geocaching, the example over and over again is that a cache is what the individual hider makes of it regardless of the container.

The only way the project can achieve anything resembling quality is if the hider tosses out the carpy container and substitutes a good one?

I disagree. As I've stated many times, every effort was made to ensure these caches were fit to be hidden.

The project itself is about individual connections to other geocachers. You can accept or reject that at face falue as CR and others have. That message has been lost in wailing arguments over container quality, hide quality, the quality of individual behavior from an ODS hider, and amazingly the quality of geocaching spirit displayed by ODS hiders in a geocaching microcosm that is perceived to have been infected by ODS, all of which have been addressed over and over and are frankly up to the individual to fix and nothing to do with the One Degree of Separation concept or the project.

I won't agree to disagree. When someone posts something to that effect, I will disagree.

What has become of peoples individual accountability? I take responsibility for the negativity directed toward me and the one degree of separation project. It will help me improve the next phase. I take responsibility for EVERY word I've said to defend the concept and the project. I take responsibility for starting a project that I KNEW wouldn't be universally accepted.

I take responsibility that some folks will allow their sense of aesthetics to cause them to fail to enjoy their geocaching experiences when hunting ODS caches...? Wait a minute! NO I DON'T.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

8.4k · May 22, 2007

I must prepare for my trip to GW5.

I have little time left to address every post worth responding to and there a quite a few more worth responding to. I regret that I haven't had time to address CR's and CyBret's issues with the concept of the project itself. I have always found CR a worthy adversary and I hope this thread isn't locked before I get a chance to address those issues.

To those that would defend this project in my absence, PLEASE remain civil. Don't argue the minutia, or resort to name calling. Stick to the facts. I'd like for this thread NOT to be locked when I return. Accentuate the positives and don't get dragged down by "Arguespew."

To those on the other side of the fence, thank you to those that have at least tried to be a little constructive. You HAVE helped me and shown me that phase 2 is on the right track. My thoughts are much more organized on how to better execute it.

To those that are sending friend requests to ODS: PRIME! , your requests will be accepted as internet access becomes available to me. It may be up to a week from today though.

WOOOHOOO ROAD TRIP! I'll have cached in 26 states (up from 13) upon my return! See you at GW5!!!!

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

(ODS) The One Degree of Separation Project

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