GCzII and the TOU/EULA (terms of use)

[Andronicus]

This thread is to discuss GCzII and the GC.com terms of use

 

northernpenguin claims that is is an 'automated scraper"

 

Me and GothicJB claim it may be a scraper, but it is not automated. GothicJB made the following argument:

 

My opinion for what it's worth (prob not much lol) is that an "automated" process of any sort is something that a user sets up to run at some other point in time WITHOUT the aid or interaction of the user at that future time. Given this criteria GCzII would definitely not be an "automated" scraper since it requires the user to initiate the search every single time (to the best of my knowledge) which is the same as that user searching the website by bookmarking a search in their browser or reloading the browser page to update a search.

[Andronicus]

 

The difference between this application and GCzII is whether or not you want to honour that EULA you agreed to when you created your Geocaching.com account. GCzII, in online mode, uses the website in a way that violates the terms of service --- it is an automated scraper. In offline mode it complies. You essentially risk having your account banned from Geocaching.com if you use the online features of GCzII.

 

GCzII isn't "Automated". Every transaction is manualy initiated.

GczII can also be used to import PQs etc. in order to not do screen scrapes.

 

 

Um, that's what I said. When you use it online, it's an automated scraper. Yes, you have to initiate it, but when you "search for nearby caches" it goes and automatically grabs information. Small amount, but it's more than loading a web page. When you use it with GPX files, then it's an offline app.

 

Second point I should mention, is that GCzII, in online mode, is my primary source of caching information when I am not using my Colorado, and it deserves all the accolades it gets. For touchscreen use, I have to say GCzII outperforms this new application.

 

Similar to GothicJB, I don't aggree that is is "automated".

 

And I also do not agree that is uses "more than loading a web page". From what I understand, it loads the web page, and then harvests data from there. That is why it does not display more information than it does in the cache list page. Many people have asked Tom to add features that would display more info, but he never has. I believe this is because he would then have to download the cache page to get that info, and he doesn't want to do that.

[+brodee]

I thought that this is now an approved app? Interestingly enough it quit working today though. Must have been an update on the site.

[+dfx]

I thought that this is now an approved app? Interestingly enough it quit working today though. Must have been an update on the site.

apparently it's not really approved, just discussions about it aren't disallowed any more. kinda strange policy really...

[Keystone]

dfx is correct. The best way to know that an application or software program is "approved" is to check the Geocaching Software page.

[+GothicJB]

dfx is correct. The best way to know that an application or software program is "approved" is to check the Geocaching Software page.

 

So if it isn't an "approved" app does that mean that by default it violates the EULA? or is able to be used just not "endorsed"?

[+GeePa]

I think it depends on how the application is used. It has the ability to do everything from pocket queries (from what I have read, I have never used it) so you could use the app without violating TOU. if you avoid certain features

 

My guess is that GC.com is just getting more aggressive about blocking activity that violates the TOU rather than just trying to ban/censor software directly as before. This is, of course, just a guess on my part. The reason I think this is because there have been a few threads on the forums (Thread1 and Thread2) about people recently getting messages that they were moving through the site faster than humanly possible and that they would be blocked from the site for a period of time. With these kinds of things in place on the site, a user is effectively blocked from using software that automates the site as the software would either have to go too slow to be practical or it would lock the user from the site.

[+Entropy512]

This thread is to discuss GCzII and the GC.com terms of use

 

northernpenguin claims that is is an 'automated scraper"

 

Me and GothicJB claim it may be a scraper, but it is not automated. GothicJB made the following argument:

 

My opinion for what it's worth (prob not much lol) is that an "automated" process of any sort is something that a user sets up to run at some other point in time WITHOUT the aid or interaction of the user at that future time. Given this criteria GCzII would definitely not be an "automated" scraper since it requires the user to initiate the search every single time (to the best of my knowledge) which is the same as that user searching the website by bookmarking a search in their browser or reloading the browser page to update a search.

Even if the user manually starts the transaction, it is "automated" in the sense that the user does not view the resulting webpage, it is "screen scraped" by the app and processed.

 

Also, it may possibly "automated" in the sense that multiple pages may be pulled in the process of completing one user-initiated operation.

[Pajaholic]

Even if the user manually starts the transaction, it is "automated" in the sense that the user does not view the resulting webpage, it is "screen scraped" by the app and processed.

 

Also, it may possibly "automated" in the sense that multiple pages may be pulled in the process of completing one user-initiated operation.

Can someone please tell me how to get GCzII to work offline? If it's capable of operating without screen scraping, then it should be able to search through the caches I've imported from GPXs created with pocket queries. I imported 500 caches into GCzII, pulled the sync cable on my WM5 PDA, then tried to search for caches near my home. GCzII responded with an error message that the Internect Connection had failed! Searching through the UI, I found an Offline Mode setting, which I turned on - but with that done none of the search options work

 

FWIW, I'm trying this as an alternative to Stuart Eastland's application since that app is very slow to import caches from GPX. However, Stuart's app can be used without needing an Internet connection (and hence without violating GS's TOU) and it does have a lot of mapping options. So all I'm looking for from GCzII is the ability to store more caches than my Dakota 20 can and to "spot" for the D20 beyond its 1000-waypoint limit.

 

TIA,

 

Geoff

[+New Jersey TJ]

E

Can someone please tell me how to get GCzII to work offline? If it's capable of operating without screen scraping, then it should be able to search through the caches I've imported from GPXs created with pocket queries.

 

Generate a .gpx for a pocket query and copy it to the phone. You first import the gpx (Menu, Cache List, Import GPX). Once the .gpx has been imported, you can view the caches in it by loading the cache list (the.gpx) for the list of .gpx that have already been imported (Menu, Cache List, Load Cache List). You'll see a list of the caches in your gpx, which you can click on to view individually without going online.

 

For more assistance:

 

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=482249

 

http://gczii.newstarforum.com/

[Pajaholic]

E

Can someone please tell me how to get GCzII to work offline? If it's capable of operating without screen scraping, then it should be able to search through the caches I've imported from GPXs created with pocket queries.

 

Generate a .gpx for a pocket query and copy it to the phone. You first import the gpx (Menu, Cache List, Import GPX). Once the .gpx has been imported, you can view the caches in it by loading the cache list (the.gpx) for the list of .gpx that have already been imported (Menu, Cache List, Load Cache List). You'll see a list of the caches in your gpx, which you can click on to view individually without going online.

Thanks for the reply. I'd already imported the GPX PQ files via Menu->Cache List->Import GPX. When I try to load the cache list, there are no GPX files in GCzII's GPX folder and all the cache-related data I can find seems to be in the Cache DB folder with another folder per cache. I need to search through all the caches stored in GCzII, but I can't find a way to do this unless my PDA is online (when I suspect that GCzII is searching GC.com rather than its offline cache of caches.)

 

I'll check the forums you quoted to see if and what I'm doing wrong.

 

Thanks again,

 

Geoff

[+New Jersey TJ]

 

Thanks for the reply. I'd already imported the GPX PQ files via Menu->Cache List->Import GPX. When I try to load the cache list, there are no GPX files in GCzII's GPX folder and all the cache-related data I can find seems to be in the Cache DB folder with another folder per cache. I need to search through all the caches stored in GCzII, but I can't find a way to do this unless my PDA is online (when I suspect that GCzII is searching GC.com rather than its offline cache of caches.)

 

I'll check the forums you quoted to see if and what I'm doing wrong.

 

Thanks again,

 

Geoff

 

Once you import the .gpx's, they should go into \Cache_list . I have all of my data on a storage card. I created a folder called GCz on it, and then from the main menu, Options, Download Settings, I specified GCz on the storage card as the directory. GCz automatically created the Cache_list folder under GCz, so when I do a Cache List, Load Cache List, it point to \Storage Card\GCz\Cache_List

 

Maybe try creating a new folder for GCz and then import some .gpx's?

[Pajaholic]

Thanks for that. I've gone back to the other app and I'm in the process of importing circa 4,000 caches from GPX files of 250 caches each (output from GSAK). Stuart's app is pretty good for my needs once the caches are loaded, but the problem is keeping the database up to date since it takes days to load the caches and map tiles, and the more caches there are in the database the longer it takes to load the next batch

 

I'll probably try GCzII again when this is finished. However, from what you say I suspect that it won't present as one list the number of caches that Stuart's app can handle. If that's so, it's not going to meet my needs. But thanks for the help anyway.

[Andronicus]

Thanks for that. I've gone back to the other app and I'm in the process of importing circa 4,000 caches from GPX files of 250 caches each (output from GSAK). Stuart's app is pretty good for my needs once the caches are loaded, but the problem is keeping the database up to date since it takes days to load the caches and map tiles, and the more caches there are in the database the longer it takes to load the next batch

 

I'll probably try GCzII again when this is finished. However, from what you say I suspect that it won't present as one list the number of caches that Stuart's app can handle. If that's so, it's not going to meet my needs. But thanks for the help anyway.

Check out some of the threads here.

 

What you need to do is increase the maximum number of allowed caches in a cache list (see appropriate thread). Then import each GPX file (See appropriate thread), Then use the merge cache list function.

 

Now you will have all your caches in one cache list. the only draw back is that with 2000 caches, it will be a bit slow. I have a list with about 450 caches, and it takes about 1 min to sort by distance (on my HTC Touch Vogue). If you have a better phone it will be faster.