Can you charge a fee to locate a cache?

[+Tony&Lyndsy]

Has anyone else run across the issue of having to pay a fee in order to access a geocache? For example, there is a cache hidden in a fort in my city. It's a national and protected site, but there is an entrance fee in order to get in and take a tour. The cache is hidden inside, with permission of the operator (as they have placed it), but in order to get in to grab the cache, you have to pay.

 

Anyone else experience this? Is it allowable? I can't find anything to the contrary.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Has anyone else run across the issue of having to pay a fee in order to access a geocache? For example, there is a cache hidden in a fort in my city. It's a national and protected site, but there is an entrance fee in order to get in and take a tour. The cache is hidden inside, with permission of the operator (as they have placed it), but in order to get in to grab the cache, you have to pay.

 

Anyone else experience this? Is it allowable? I can't find anything to the contrary.

 

I have a cache hidden at a local Bird Sanctuary (non-profit). You either have to be a member or pay a trail fee to access the property. Since it is non-profit, it is OK.

 

Simialrly, caches can exist in state parks, etc that charge a fee.

 

It's when the fee is commercial (such as to access an amusement park) there are issues.

[+michellepluseight]

There is an attribute for this: (Access or Parking Fee)

[+K13]

It is not that uncommon, and it is a generally accepted practice within the Groundspeak guidelines.

There are caches inside Disney and Sea World in Florida, for example.

Closer to home for me in Texas, there are hundreds of caches placed inside Texas State Parks (one is mine). There are access fees for almost all State Parks.

[+niraD]

There are caches inside Disney and Sea World in Florida, for example.

Although to be fair, the non-commercial guidelines would now prohibit a new cache inside a for-profit park like Disneyland or Disney World (even if you could get permission).

[+Chief301]

Having to pay an entrance fee at a not-for-profit location, like a park or museum, is usually OK. For-profit businesses are mostly forbidden

[+Pork King]

I had to pay $20 a head to get into the US Space & Rocket Center to be able to log the GPS Maze Exhibit! (not to mention the outrageous prices on the subpar food at the only concession stand in the place).

 

I've found caches in several State Parks that charge a fee to enter, as well.

 

The topic misled me a little. I thought we could now set up a toll booth near our own caches and charge away.

[+Walts Hunting]

 

The topic misled me a little. I thought we could now set up a toll booth near our own caches and charge away.

 

That was my thought. What a great idea. How about a dollar for each one on a power trail

[+WarNinjas]

I don't see a problem with it. It is a place you can't go without paying a fee. So in most cases it wouldn't be blocking a free cache so why not have one there if someone chooses to pay to get it or is there for another reason to go ahead and get it. The most likely other option is no cache in the area at all so why not have one there. You can choose if you want to pay or not.

[+CanadianRockies]

The topic misled me a little. I thought we could now set up a toll booth near our own caches and charge away.

That was my thought. What a great idea. How about a dollar for each one on a power trail

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

[+kunarion]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

[+wmpastor]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

Sounds good, but eventually a muggle will break the box or steal it because of the presumed cash in the cache.

[Keystone]

Newspaper vending machine caches fit within the "commercial caches" prohibition. A box dispensing free newspapers, like a real estate guide, would be fine.

[+kunarion]

Sounds good, but eventually a muggle will break the box or steal it because of the presumed cash in the cache.

Yeah. I have a ton of cache ideas, but they can't be placed all over the place. My caches never seem to be the clone in any crevice "drop another when the previous one is stolen" kind. There may be one spot in the world where the cache may work well. Plus "newspaper dispensers" aren't common anymore, so that could attract unwanted attention. AND I can't hide it around here, due to the "break the box" thing. Not "muggles". Local cachers are like the Terminator, they won't stop til the cache is dead.

Edited November 2, 2014 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

Newspaper vending machine caches fit within the "commercial caches" prohibition. A box dispensing free newspapers, like a real estate guide, would be fine.

So it would need a special dispenser dispensation from Groundspeak? It could have a secret release, if the issue is having to require any currency to get a cache regardless of whether the coin is a fee. That's not the issue, right? I'd like to be able to make some caches that require coins for access, for puzzles or as tools, and those ideas would be killed if it's not allowed to need "money" anywhere in the vicinity.

 

I found a free newspaper box cache last month, and the ammo box was hidden in a clever way. Having no latch/lock, anyone can open it for "free newspapers". I can't decide which is better as an actual cache in operation, theirs (free) or mine (pay to access, but all coins are immediately returned). Probably theirs simply due to the ease of replacement/repair. Theirs was in a very quiet spot, not where people tend to look for free newspapers. I seriously think TPTB could be convinced that a cache device that needs coins yet allows you to keep all your money, is permissible. But I don't seriously think I'd ever try to make such a cache.

Edited November 2, 2014 by kunarion

[+narcissa]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

 

There's one near me that you use a quarter to open, but you get the quarter back when you close it back up.

[+kunarion]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

 

There's one near me that you use a quarter to open, but you get the quarter back when you close it back up.

Perhaps that was grandfathered, and new caches fall under stricter commercial guidelines? If a cache is particularly usual, I may not make one of that type. It's bad enough when I make one I think is especially cool and the first finder logs that it's fun like the same kind of cache the next town over.

[Keystone]

If you're not a business (like selling the Daily Times) and the "vending machine" doesn't keep your money, then where's the commercialism?

[+Walts Hunting]

If you're not a business (like selling the Daily Times) and the "vending machine" doesn't keep your money, then where's the commercialism?

I was thinking the same thing but wanted to wait for an expert opinion

[+kunarion]

If you're not a business (like selling the Daily Times) and the "vending machine" doesn't keep your money, then where's the commercialism?

I was thinking the same thing but wanted to wait for an expert opinion

I thought the same thing, too, but then read two divergent opinions:

 

Newspaper vending machine caches fit within the "commercial caches" prohibition. A box dispensing free newspapers, like a real estate guide, would be fine.

 

If you're not a business (like selling the Daily Times) and the "vending machine" doesn't keep your money, then where's the commercialism?

 

Don't worry, I'm confident I've discerned the finer points of the subject. . The approved caches include a machine that returns all deposited cash. I think.

Edited November 2, 2014 by kunarion

[4wheelin_fool]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

[+kunarion]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

How much for a DNF? I could save a lot of time by contracting those out.

[+wmpastor]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

Let me get this straight. I work longer so I can pay you $50 to ride a kayak for me?????

[+wmpastor]

Plus "newspaper dispensers" aren't common anymore, so that could attract unwanted attention.

 

In the city near here, the four give-away newspapers in boxes are for real estate ads, car sales, a tabloid of local events, gossip, personal ads & massage parlor ads, and a gay-theme newspaper in purple boxes. Several paid newspapers also use boxes.

 

So the cache idea is viable in some places.

[+Qbar]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

oh yeah!!!! There's been a few that drove my frustration level high enough, I might have been tempted. I wouldn't even need to log them as a find, after awhile I just want to know where the sucker is.

[+Traditional Bill]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

[+AKACRider]

Theres one near me that costs 100$ to get to. plus the helicopter ride cost.

[+narcissa]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

 

There's one near me that you use a quarter to open, but you get the quarter back when you close it back up.

Perhaps that was grandfathered, and new caches fall under stricter commercial guidelines? If a cache is particularly usual, I may not make one of that type. It's bad enough when I make one I think is especially cool and the first finder logs that it's fun like the same kind of cache the next town over.

 

Um, no, it's fairly new. The quarter is essentially a tool you use to open it. Why would that be commercial?

[4wheelin_fool]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

 

Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks?

[+kunarion]

Or, one could hide a cache inside a vending machine.

I'd like to do that. I've thought of making an old newspaper box into a cache. $2.00 for an issue of "Cache Monthly" or whatever muggles wouldn't buy, then return all the coins when the box is opened. Special tools: two dollars in change.

 

There's one near me that you use a quarter to open, but you get the quarter back when you close it back up.

Perhaps that was grandfathered, and new caches fall under stricter commercial guidelines? If a cache is particularly usual, I may not make one of that type. It's bad enough when I make one I think is especially cool and the first finder logs that it's fun like the same kind of cache the next town over.

 

Um, no, it's fairly new. The quarter is essentially a tool you use to open it. Why would that be commercial?

It's not. In this same thread, I mentioned that I thought a newspaper cache would be cool if it returned all the coins, but next I thought I was told that "Newspaper Vending Machines" (which seemed at first to be a reply to my post about one that returned all the coins) would be a not-allowed commercial cache, then I replied to your post about that exact kind of cache existing, then I was told my idea (therefore your example) would not be a commercial cache. Then I posted both contradictory statements together in response to a similar post as yours, in case people were wondering why I ever thought a newspaper box cache as described could be a "commercial cache", but that I now believed the statements were misinterpreted by me. Then I typed this in response to your question. So that clears that up.

Edited November 3, 2014 by kunarion

[+Lil Devil]

kunarion, I think you need to cut back on the espressos a bit.

[+Traditional Bill]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

 

Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks?

 

Well, that sounds fun.....Or even better.....incredibly difficult challenges rated 5/5 and placed in a guardrail and/or light pole. Then you can fool folks into paying for nuttin'.

 

As a side note, I actually did get privately solicited for climbing lessons after posting that, believe it or not. As promised, I offered the good ole discussion forums discount.

[4wheelin_fool]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

 

Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks?

 

Well, that sounds fun.....Or even better.....incredibly difficult challenges rated 5/5 and placed in a guardrail and/or light pole. Then you can fool folks into paying for nuttin'.

 

As a side note, I actually did get privately solicited for climbing lessons after posting that, believe it or not. As promised, I offered the good ole discussion forums discount.

All kidding aside, that's great!

And it's also great to have a forum discount, as I didn't think anyone read them anymore.

[+Traditional Bill]

I charge $50 for 5/5s within 50 miles of my home coordinates. Outside of that the prices go up, however it's the cheapest in the area. I think iPod guy charges $80 or more.

 

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

 

Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks?

 

Well, that sounds fun.....Or even better.....incredibly difficult challenges rated 5/5 and placed in a guardrail and/or light pole. Then you can fool folks into paying for nuttin'.

 

As a side note, I actually did get privately solicited for climbing lessons after posting that, believe it or not. As promised, I offered the good ole discussion forums discount.

All kidding aside, that's great!

And it's also great to have a forum discount, as I didn't think anyone read them anymore.

 

I thought the same thing. Took me by surprise a bit, but it's always nice to see cachers that want to learn how to do the more extreme stuff. I actually considered hosting an event to show some cachers "the ropes" but now that we need triple secret permission from the CIA to get a climbing cache published in Jersey, I decided against it.

 

Shame too, because I wouldn't even have charged admission fees

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I thought the same thing. Took me by surprise a bit, but it's always nice to see cachers that want to learn how to do the more extreme stuff. I actually considered hosting an event to show some cachers "the ropes" but now that we need triple secret permission from the CIA to get a climbing cache published in Jersey, I decided against it.

 

Shame too, because I wouldn't even have charged admission fees

 

Why the triple secret permission? What's up?

[+Ladybug Kids]

I thought the same thing. Took me by surprise a bit, but it's always nice to see cachers that want to learn how to do the more extreme stuff. I actually considered hosting an event to show some cachers "the ropes" but now that we need triple secret permission from the CIA to get a climbing cache published in Jersey, I decided against it.

 

Shame too, because I wouldn't even have charged admission fees

 

Why the triple secret permission? What's up?

Land Manager prohibition. Depends on the jurisdiction.

[+Ladybug Kids]

Theres one near me that costs 100$ to get to. plus the helicopter ride cost.

Which cache is that?

 

On topic...Most Alaska State Parks have an iron ranger to pay $5 for parking. A Muni Recreation Area near North Pole also charges a per car fee for access. Washington State Parks has an access fee and permit process. Grand Canyon National Park, Denali National Park, Wupatki National Monument, Sunset Crater, Yellowstone, etc., all of which have at least EarthCaches and Virtuals charge an access fee.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Ladybug Kids

[+Traditional Bill]

I thought the same thing. Took me by surprise a bit, but it's always nice to see cachers that want to learn how to do the more extreme stuff. I actually considered hosting an event to show some cachers "the ropes" but now that we need triple secret permission from the CIA to get a climbing cache published in Jersey, I decided against it.

 

Shame too, because I wouldn't even have charged admission fees

 

Why the triple secret permission? What's up?

 

It's another topic entirely in which I haven't created a thread for. Long story short, there's lots of hoops to jump through as of late to put a cache up a tree in Jersey....unless of course it's in a WMA...That's allowed. Unfortunately, WMAs are managed by the state and the state hasn't permitted cache placements for almost a year now. So....No more fun with ropes in the garden state. For the most part, at least. Not trying to really make a public case of it. It sucks for the small amount of climbing cachers in our state, but it is what it is and at the end of the day, our reviewers are right. Just wish they'd uphold the same standards for powertrails and parking lots.

 

 

SO....how about them fees to locate a geocache?

[+hzoi]

It cost me $295 for a seaplane ride to log a virtual at Fort Jefferson. I placed two earthcaches there so others could get more bang for their buck.

 

Oh, and the fort was pretty cool, too.

Edited November 5, 2014 by hzoi

[+JohnCNA]

If you're not a business (like selling the Daily Times) and the "vending machine" doesn't keep your money, then where's the commercialism?

 

And even cooler, would be if you made up a fake newspaper to show through the window on the newspaper box.

[+AKACRider]

Theres one near me that costs 100$ to get to. plus the helicopter ride cost.

Which cache is that?

 

On topic...Most Alaska State Parks have an iron ranger to pay $5 for parking. A Muni Recreation Area near North Pole also charges a per car fee for access. Washington State Parks has an access fee and permit process. Grand Canyon National Park, Denali National Park, Wupatki National Monument, Sunset Crater, Yellowstone, etc., all of which have at least EarthCaches and Virtuals charge an access fee.

 

its not close close, but its one of the ones in the islands...

[+jellis]

I don't see a problem with it. It is a place you can't go without paying a fee. So in most cases it wouldn't be blocking a free cache so why not have one there if someone chooses to pay to get it or is there for another reason to go ahead and get it. The most likely other option is no cache in the area at all so why not have one there. You can choose if you want to pay or not.

I choose not to pay $30 to go to Alcatraz for a Virtual.

[+-CJ-]

The question is rather interesting to me. We've discussed this issue a lot around here.

 

First, it seems that when you're talking about "commercial" and "non-commercial" or "non-profit", the edge may be thin and not clearly visible. For instance, you need to guess if the owner of the property is a commercial entity or a non-profit entity; sometimes it's easy, sometimes not. Again, even commercial companies may conduct non-profit activities, e.g. there could be some entrance fee but your money won't make any profit for the owners and the stuff of a company. Sometimes you need to go deeper into details and this can be hard especially if you don't know local laws and regulations and language.

 

Second, there commonly are "indirect costs" for visiting many caches. For example, there's a well-known island near Helsinki called Suomenlinna with a huge fortress and many interesting places to visit. One has to pay to get there by a ferry. Is this ferry line non-profit? Obviously no. However, there are many caches on Suomenlinna and no one seems to be bothered with there's paid access to these hides.

 

One local cache (not mine) was banned by our reviewer because of this "commercial" guideline. The market had its interesting story and the box was outside its territory so you didn't have to pay any fees or buy any goods to get to the cache. However, it was counted as violating the guidelines. I spent the last week in Istanbul and visited the cache located at the territory of their grand market. There are many caches in the world located in cafes; it's a good way to prevent them from being muggled so they're often used as TB hotels. Usually you are not required to pay but I've never taken this advantage; it would be really strange to me to visit such a cache without asking for a cup of coffee or a pint of beer.

 

So, at this moment my ideas about "entrance fee problem" are:

 

- Don't hide a cache in a place where commercial interests and obviously dominating.

- Try to avoid placing a cache on a territory with an entrance fee.

- Get rid of all phrases and words (in your description) that may look like promotion of any brand or product.

- Focus on the historical, architectural and other "non-profit" themes related to the place.

- If your cache is placed on a territory with open and free access but there are some places nearby and on the same territory with paid access (e.g. a park with a castle, some attractions, cafes, etc.), explain that your cache doesn't require any payments.

- If your cache is on a territory with paid access don't hide this fact from your visitors, tell them about how much is it and about working hours.

- If you submit a cache on a territory with paid access you probably should explain your local reviewer that it's non-profit and you are not promoting any commercial activity. (This suggestion depends on your local reviewer and your experience with him/her, of course).

[+GrateBear]

The advantage of age: $10 for a lifetime National Parks pass. It's good for the passholder as well those with him/her. So, if you go caching with a few young cachers, they get in, too, for no extra fee. In ID, we can pay an extra $10/year for our license plate renewal that gets you into all ID state parks. Well worth it!

Oh, and sometimes if you ask nicely, the person at the gate will let you in for free if you say it's only for a geocache and you promise to be out in a few minutes. Just worked for me in OR. He was very nice about it.

Edited November 27, 2014 by GrateBear

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Oh, and sometimes if you ask nicely, the person at the gate will let you in for free if you say it's only for a geocache and you promise to be out in a few minutes. Just worked for me in OR. He was very nice about it.

 

I did that at a state park in NY as well. I was able to explain the game to the gate attendant and he expressed interest in finding the cache himself. We also have an Empire pass available which provides a vehicle day pass for most of the many NY State parks. Personally, I think it's well worth it and they are generally very nice places to go geocaching and with shrinking budgets the NY state park system could use the money to help maintain them.