APE Cache Found! Your thoughts?

[+geocat_]

I bet many of you have already heard that the muggled APE cache has been found! They have a survey to try to help determine what to do with it now. In my opinion, this cache needs to be restored to its original location and reactivated. That would be awesome! I would make the trip out there just for this find (and, of course, making lots of other fun finds on the way, lol).

[+Manville Possum]

I bet many of you have already heard that the muggled APE cache has been found! They have a survey to try to help determine what to do with it now. In my opinion, this cache needs to be restored to its original location and reactivated. That would be awesome! I would make the trip out there just for this find (and, of course, making lots of other fun finds on the way, lol).

 

Got links?

[+geocat_]

APE CACHE!

[+togapii]

Got links?

 

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2016/11/long-lost-ape-cache-is-found/

[+Touchstone]

Great story! Reactivated? In my opinion, no.

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

I answered their survey. I like the idea of re-activating it. However, isn't it located in a tunnel that is closed in the winter? I do like their idea of traveling it around also.

 

Maybe they could do both! Re-activate it in the original location for half the year. Let it travel to the other locations (and let it be logged at those locations, for the other half of the year. A fixed schedule could be published, so that people would be able to plan accordingly.

[Pup Patrol]

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2016/11/long-lost-ape-cache-is-found/

 

Should Mission 9: Tunnel of Light be returned to its original location and reactivated? Should it be kept safe from muggles and instead be displayed at Geocaching HQ as an artifact of the game’s history? Are there other ideas that should be considered?

 

We encourage you to make your voice heard by completing this survey by November 27, 2016. We’ll gather the ideas and later give you a chance to vote for your favorite before the end of the year.

 

B.

[+Manville Possum]

I completed the survey. It's part of history so leave it be. Nice that they went back and removed the geolitter.

[+RoombaCats]

Like the can of beans from the Original GeoStash cache,the original APE cache should be held at Geocaching HQ and a replica (noted on the APE cache contents as a copy and serialized) should be reactivated with a few backups available for any new mugglings that occurs. Like the can of beans, the APE cache is almost at Holy Relic level of notoriety. I'm sure folks will be just fine with finding a replica knowing the original is safe for the ages. You might want to post a Nights Templar sentry nearby just in case (poor Indiana Jones and the last crusade reference)

[+lamoracke]

I would gladly wish it was reactivated so others can find and enjoy it. Never should have been archived in my opinion anyway.

[+hukilaulau]

Great story!

I will vote for either putting it back and re-activating it OR keeping it archived and display it at HQ.

I absolutely HATE the idea of awarding the APE icon for anything other than finding an original APE cache in its original location.

[+PlantAKiss]

That's awesome! I say as a rarity and amazing history and find preserve it (like a dinosaur bone) at HQ but activate to allow cachers to log it only if they hike to original location to retrieve a password or some such proof of finding the original GZ. At the very least, don't put it back out in the wild to get muggled again. It's nice to have visual history.

Edited November 12, 2016 by PlantAKiss

[+The A-Team]

I like the idea of re-activating it. However, isn't it located in a tunnel that is closed in the winter?

No, the location is about 3000 feet west of the tunnel. The access from the east through the tunnel is closed in the winter, but it's accessible year-round from the west via the Annette Lake Trail.

 

Like the can of beans from the Original GeoStash cache,the original APE cache should be held at Geocaching HQ...

The can of beans doesn't reside at HQ. It's in the possession of a cacher and is taken around to select events. There's much more to that story, but I won't get into the controversy here.

[+The A-Team]

As someone who found the original via the Annette Lake Trail during the first Going Ape event in 2010 and found the tribute via the tunnel in 2015, I feel there are really only two options:

1. Return the container to the original location and reactivate it as it was (ie. as a Project A.P.E. cache), preferably with some decent theft deterrents.

2. Keep the container at HQ, but leave it archived and locked so it can't be logged.

 

The ideas where the container sits at HQ or travels to events and can be logged by anyone just doesn't sit well with me. Anyone logging the cache under those scenarios is completely missing out on the "Tunnel of Light" experience, which is a significant part of this cache. If anyone wants to get the icon, they should go through the work of getting it. Logging it just because you happened to be walking by it at an event just seems "cheap".

[+geodarts]

As someone who found the original via the Annette Lake Trail during the first Going Ape event in 2010 and found the tribute via the tunnel in 2015, I feel there are really only two options:

1. Return the container to the original location and reactivate it as it was (ie. as a Project A.P.E. cache), preferably with some decent theft deterrents.

2. Keep the container at HQ, but leave it archived and locked so it can't be logged.

 

The ideas where the container sits at HQ or travels to events and can be logged by anyone just doesn't sit well with me. Anyone logging the cache under those scenarios is completely missing out on the "Tunnel of Light" experience, which is a significant part of this cache. If anyone wants to get the icon, they should go through the work of getting it. Logging it just because you happened to be walking by it at an event just seems "cheap".

 

To me, touring the container in order to log it would make it akin to a relic. It might as well be transported in a yellow jeep to allow people to log a locationless at the same time. In the end, it is simply a container with an interesting history. The experience of the APE cache lies elsewhere.

 

At this point, given that parts of the tribute cache were found scattered, returning it to the original location seems problematic. Let it stay at HQ and be remembered as a fun (but controversial) promotion that became a unique part of caching lore, and remains so if you want to visit Brazil.

 

In any event, it's a good story.

[+Sol seaker]

I would gladly wish it was reactivated so others can find and enjoy it. Never should have been archived in my opinion anyway.

 

Hi Lam!! I saw you were part of the team that went and found the container. I wish I could have been there. Very cool!!!

 

 

 

I think they should reinstate the cache, although I doubt they will.

 

The thing is that GS Wants to encourage geocaching, as they should. People really like a destination. People would travel from all over the world to find this if it were reinstated. People would get EXCITED about going to find it.

 

This would be a good thing to keep the game alive and fresh.

 

People like geocaching destinations. Otherwise they stay at home and do LPC's.

 

Having geocaching destinations encourages geocaching and renews excitement in the game. This is a good thing.

 

There aren't many destinations this big and this popular. Why not let people have that?

[+tallglenn]

I answered the survey "other". Unarchive the original one week/year during the Mega. Volunteers could stay in a tent nearby to babysit. The rest of the year, HQ (not loggable as a 1/1). What happens when the APE in Brazil is gone? Are there too many icons? I don't think so.

[+fuchslein]

I bet many of you have already heard that the muggled APE cache has been found! They have a survey to try to help determine what to do with it now. In my opinion, this cache needs to be restored to its original location and reactivated. That would be awesome! I would make the trip out there just for this find (and, of course, making lots of other fun finds on the way, lol).

 

Oh please, reactive muggled A.P.E. I would love to have a chance to log one, but it is too dangerous for my health to travel yellow fever area ( where only active one is located ).

[+Harry Dolphin]

As someone who found the original via the Annette Lake Trail during the first Going Ape event in 2010 and found the tribute via the tunnel in 2015, I feel there are really only two options:

1. Return the container to the original location and reactivate it as it was (ie. as a Project A.P.E. cache), preferably with some decent theft deterrents.

2. Keep the container at HQ, but leave it archived and locked so it can't be logged.

 

The ideas where the container sits at HQ or travels to events and can be logged by anyone just doesn't sit well with me. Anyone logging the cache under those scenarios is completely missing out on the "Tunnel of Light" experience, which is a significant part of this cache. If anyone wants to get the icon, they should go through the work of getting it. Logging it just because you happened to be walking by it at an event just seems "cheap".

 

I have the icon for finding Mission 7: Crab Creek. No Tunnel of Light for me. So I cannot agree with you there. (The souvenir is a different story.)

I vote to put it in the museum (HQ).

[+narcissa]

Mixed feelings. I'd like it if there was another one available to be found again. I likely wouldn't travel to either one but I know others would. But a part of me is also a little relieved that this sort of commercial / promotional partnership didn't become a regular thing in the game.

[+Mudfrog]

As someone who found the original via the Annette Lake Trail during the first Going Ape event in 2010 and found the tribute via the tunnel in 2015, I feel there are really only two options:

1. Return the container to the original location and reactivate it as it was (ie. as a Project A.P.E. cache), preferably with some decent theft deterrents.

2. Keep the container at HQ, but leave it archived and locked so it can't be logged.

 

The ideas where the container sits at HQ or travels to events and can be logged by anyone just doesn't sit well with me. Anyone logging the cache under those scenarios is completely missing out on the "Tunnel of Light" experience, which is a significant part of this cache. If anyone wants to get the icon, they should go through the work of getting it. Logging it just because you happened to be walking by it at an event just seems "cheap".

 

I have the same feeling. If the cache is to be reactivated, then it needs to be reactivated in its original form and in its original hiding spot. The original cache offered up a great experience along with a nice little challenge. This was a cache that i've had on my to do list but it was archived before i could make it up there. I'd be trying to make plans again if it's replaced in it's original hiding place. I would not even consider messing with it if it was placed and made loggable from inside an air conditioned building.

 

Now, while it would be cool to have the container placed back at ground zero, i could see keeping it at headquarters for safe keeping and for display of history. It itself should not be loggable. The original location is the more the significant part of this equation and needs to be utilized before unarchiving the cache.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I voted to return it to it's original location and reactivate it. The cache was archived because the Ape container was lost. It's been found, so the cache should live on. Plus, I think it would be a good PR move for a company that could use some good PR. Having it displayed at HQ is kind of a head scratcher to me since there is still one active Ape cache. Putting this container at HQ for viewing purposes would be like saying that the "Ape chapter in geocaching history is closed and here on display is the last relic of that era". But...that chapter hasn't closed. It would make even less sense to take it tour to events.

 

The Tunnel of Light Ape cache already has a long and storied existence. The container was located against overwhelming odds and putting it back in play at its original location just seems like the right thing to do and would add even more rich history to this cache. The Iron Horse trail and the tunnel are a great hiking experience by themselves but the Tunnel of Light Ape cache became an iconic destination for many geocachers. I think it would also be a great example of what geocaching should be: a cache hidden in a great location that requires you to get some distance away from "civilization", to expend some energy doing so but gaining an experience you wouldn't have gotten by staying close to your car. I hope it returns to action.

[+cerberus1]

I vote to put it in the museum (HQ).

+1

Traveling it around, or replacing/reactivating what is simply now a much-wanted icon for many cacher's stats, just seems cheesy (to me).

There's still one in Brazil if someone still has to have that icon...

[+Team DEMP]

Based on what my local reviewer posts each time he archives a cache, I don't think replacing/unarchiving would be an issue. To me it would be the most appropriate option to allow others who either didn't make a find or weren't even involved in the game back then, an option to experience the excitement of finding an APE cache.

If you wish to repair/replace the cache sometime in the future, just contact me via email, including the GC Code, and assuming it meets the guidelines, we'll be happy to unarchive it.

[+kjerstih]

It should be restored to active Project APE cache status in its original location.

 

I went to Brazil and found the last remaining Project APE cache 3 years ago. I never got the chance to find any of the others and I think it's sad that they were archived. I would have traveled anywhere to find them. Finding the one on Brazil was one of the best geocaching adventures I've ever had.

 

Seeing the box on display at HQ or at an event would not interest me at all. Letting people log it as a find in other places than the original location would make it a lot less special and sort of ruin the point. Finding a special cache type like this should require more effort than visiting HQ or an event.

 

I don't even mind if Mission 9 gets activated with a new container. The important thing is that the original listing becomes active again. I would have loved to see some of the others come back from the dead as well - original containers or not. The 90 days to unarchive rule is so new that it shouldn't be relevant.

 

These caches are old - a part of geocaching history - and should be kept active at all costs. If Groundspeak asked me what the #1 thing they could do to make me more excited about geocaching, this would be it.

 

Let's hope Mission 9 will be unarchived. I will come to the US to find it as soon as I can!

 

kjerstih, Norway

[+geocat_]

I know that I would travel to get this one if it is reactivated at GZ. Same for others in my area (SW Ohio). We would LOVE to do a road trip out there together! (Drove to Alaska this summer so this would be a park and grab, lol!) Maybe they can secure it with a heavy duty chain at GZ. Not sure about the location but it might deter some muggles.

[+Manville Possum]

Edited November 13, 2016 by Manville Possum

[+hal-an-tow]

"Should Mission 9: Tunnel of Light be returned to its original location and reactivated?"

 

Yes,as hasbeen said, any other guideline compiant archived cache can be resurrected in this kind of circumstance, why not this one ?

 

"Should it be kept safe from muggles and instead be displayed at Geocaching HQ as an artifact of the game’s history? "

 

No, out of it's location it's just an old box .. and touring it round like some holy relic would be comical.

Are GS thinking of bestowing some unique special travelling cache status to it, to let folk walk up at an event and log it ?

Cue howls of anger from those who cherish having found the cache 'properly'

[+1949Sidewinder]

"Should Mission 9: Tunnel of Light be returned to its original location and reactivated?"

 

I voted yes! - I Believe that this pastime is called geocaching. If the cache can be returned to it's original location and reactivated then that is what should be done. I have absolutely no interest in going to Geocaching HQ to see an old ammo can, but I would love to go find the A.P.E. cache. Is that not what geocaching is all about?

[+Mudfrog]

I went ahead and voted to restore the cache as original.

 

But i was wondering, i haven't researched the cache's history. A couple of the posts in this thread make it sound like it's probable the cache will be muggled if it's placed back in its original location. First off, is it true this cache has more problems than others? If so, is the container not hidden, maybe placed in plain sight where everyone hiking by see's it? If it is hidden fairly well, are geocachers (using this term lightly) stealing the container?

 

I know we have some bad apples but it's hard to believe there are very many cachers actually wanting to steal it. Can the container be hidden better so as to help alleviate problems from casual passersby? Just seems this kind of issue, if it really is an issue, could be resolved...

[+J Grouchy]

I guess I feel like if they un-archive it, then perhaps the argument could be made that other caches that were thought lost but later found ought to get the same consideration. Of course GS is the ultimate judge and jury of such matters, but giving one cache special treatment while denying it for others makes their position a bit shaky.

[+dprovan]

I guess I feel like if they un-archive it, then perhaps the argument could be made that other caches that were thought lost but later found ought to get the same consideration. Of course GS is the ultimate judge and jury of such matters, but giving one cache special treatment while denying it for others makes their position a bit shaky.

I didn't know there was any rule against restoring an archived cache if it was found again. It happens around here from time to time, so I never thought it was problem.

[+J Grouchy]

I guess I feel like if they un-archive it, then perhaps the argument could be made that other caches that were thought lost but later found ought to get the same consideration. Of course GS is the ultimate judge and jury of such matters, but giving one cache special treatment while denying it for others makes their position a bit shaky.

I didn't know there was any rule against restoring an archived cache if it was found again. It happens around here from time to time, so I never thought it was problem.

 

Then why do they make a big to-do about putting out a survey and making a big deal about it? I don't see them polling us on stuff that we actually care about.

 

Do it or don't do it.

[+dprovan]

Then why do they make a big to-do about putting out a survey and making a big deal about it? I don't see them polling us on stuff that we actually care about.

They aren't making a big deal about it: it's a big deal all on its own. They put out the survey to get people's opinion. I took the poll as being put out by people in their role as geocachers wanting to please the most people, not as officials requesting permission to break a rule.

 

Do it or don't do it.

Good advice, although it seems to me they already narrowed it down to those two choices without you suggesting it.

[+igator210]

I say leave it archived... the intent of the cache is over. People just want it now for the icon....

 

However.....

 

They could have it unarchived for one day only.... announced months in advance.... for the Going Ape Mega 2016.

[+narcissa]

I say leave it archived... the intent of the cache is over. People just want it now for the icon....

 

However.....

 

They could have it unarchived for one day only.... announced months in advance.... for the Going Ape Mega 2016.

 

Yes, people want it for the icon. Can we stop denigrating people for that?

[+J Grouchy]

Then why do they make a big to-do about putting out a survey and making a big deal about it? I don't see them polling us on stuff that we actually care about.

They aren't making a big deal about it: it's a big deal all on its own. They put out the survey to get people's opinion. I took the poll as being put out by people in their role as geocachers wanting to please the most people, not as officials requesting permission to break a rule.

 

Do it or don't do it.

Good advice, although it seems to me they already narrowed it down to those two choices without you suggesting it.

 

I'm glad you have input on MY opinion. It's flattering to know you spend so much time devising responses to my posts.

But perhaps you ought to have just given it a little more thought...that my "do it or don't do it" is about not bothering to waste time asking for opinions from every cacher. What...are they going to go with the popular vote? Are they just polling us to drum up press and interest and they already know what they are planning to do anyway, regardless of what the poll says?

It's pretty clear they know what they'll do and it's all just about trying to get people interested in something that ultimately didn't turn out to be all that interesting. It would have made a better story if they'd found it in some guy's back yard as a planter or something. This is just about it getting dragged a few hundred feet away by some random hiker or animal.

Yawn.

[+bflentje]

It's time we use a bit of politics.. it is only fair and compassionate that it be reactivated so that those that want to find it, for whatever reason, have the opportunity to find and log it. Any other decision would be hateful and discriminatory.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I would gladly wish it was reactivated so others can find and enjoy it. Never should have been archived in my opinion anyway.

 

Hi Lam!! I saw you were part of the team that went and found the container. I wish I could have been there. Very cool!!!

 

 

 

I think they should reinstate the cache, although I doubt they will.

 

The thing is that GS Wants to encourage geocaching, as they should. People really like a destination. People would travel from all over the world to find this if it were reinstated. People would get EXCITED about going to find it.

 

This would be a good thing to keep the game alive and fresh.

 

People like geocaching destinations. Otherwise they stay at home and do LPC's.

 

Having geocaching destinations encourages geocaching and renews excitement in the game. This is a good thing.

 

There aren't many destinations this big and this popular. Why not let people have that?

 

As I see it, the Pacific Northwest is already a geocaching destination with Groundspeak HQ and Original Stash plaque located in the area.

 

Currently, if one wants to find the oldest active cache in the world, Kansas would be a destination. If one wants to find the only remaining APE cache, then Brazil is a destination.

 

Consider what would happen if the APE cache in Brazil was muggled and Mingo was (finally) archived. GC12 would become the oldest active cache the PNW would essentially become the *only* destination for icon chasers.

 

There is nothing wrong with geocaching destinations (for those that are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to travel just to find a cache or caches), but I personally prefer that there is more than one destination.

 

 

[+The A-Team]

I don't even mind if Mission 9 gets activated with a new container. The important thing is that the original listing becomes active again. I would have loved to see some of the others come back from the dead as well - original containers or not.

Groundspeak has made it clear in the past that the most important part of the Project A.P.E. caches was the original containers. Once those went missing, each one got archived, including Mission 9. The only reason this issue has arisen is because the original Mission 9 container has resurfaced. A replacement container at the same coordinates is considered a completely different cache (e.g. Mission 9: Tunnel of Light Reclaimed) and not eligible for the Project A.P.E. cache type.

[+Team DEMP]

I say leave it archived... the intent of the cache is over. People just want it now for the icon....

 

Isn't that the reason the folks went to the cache prior to it being vandalized?

[+The A-Team]

I say leave it archived... the intent of the cache is over. People just want it now for the icon....

Isn't that the reason the folks went to the cache prior to it being vandalized?

I'm sure that was a significant motivator*, but I can't understand why igator210 thinks that's a bad thing. So what if people went for it just for the icon? If they found it and signed the log, why does it matter why they selected that cache to look for? Should the other rare cache types be retired completely just because some people are going after those caches due to their rarity?

 

*Other motivators could be the neat location, the cache's fame/notoriety, or any number of other possible reasons.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I went ahead and voted to restore the cache as original.

 

But i was wondering, i haven't researched the cache's history. A couple of the posts in this thread make it sound like it's probable the cache will be muggled if it's placed back in its original location. First off, is it true this cache has more problems than others? If so, is the container not hidden, maybe placed in plain sight where everyone hiking by see's it? If it is hidden fairly well, are geocachers (using this term lightly) stealing the container?

 

I know we have some bad apples but it's hard to believe there are very many cachers actually wanting to steal it. Can the container be hidden better so as to help alleviate problems from casual passersby? Just seems this kind of issue, if it really is an issue, could be resolved...

 

The container is/was hidden in some kind of tree stump/rock pile/branches combination (I'm sure there are pictures of the hide in the caches gallery). That pile is right next to the trail and is very hard to miss. No doubt that plenty of hikers and bikers had found the cache just by being curious.

 

I didn't find the Ape cache but the tribute cachet, when I found it, was chained down with a very heavy duty chain. The person who stole the Ape cache (and many of the other highly favorited caches along that stretch of trail) was very determined to keep making the cache(s) disappear. A heavy duty chain that would probably require a torch to cut it didn't stop them. If the cache would get activated again, that would be an issue that would have to be dealt with as I'm sure the maggot would return.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I say leave it archived... the intent of the cache is over. People just want it now for the icon....

Isn't that the reason the folks went to the cache prior to it being vandalized?

I'm sure that was a significant motivator*, but I can't understand why igator210 thinks that's a bad thing. So what if people went for it just for the icon? If they found it and signed the log, why does it matter why they selected that cache to look for? Should the other rare cache types be retired completely just because some people are going after those caches due to their rarity?

 

*Other motivators could be the neat location, the cache's fame/notoriety, or any number of other possible reasons.

 

Several cache type have been archived. You want the icon for Locationless (reverse), Groundspeak Block Party, or Groundspeak Lost and Found Party, you're out of luck. Why should Project A.P.E. caches be any different?

Dang, that was fifteen years ago! Yes, we took a vacation to Maryland for the Project A.P.E. cache (and enjoyed virtuals in DC.)

But, if the reason for restoring the cache is so that cachers can get the icon, then bring back Locationless caches so new cachers can get that icon too.

The series is old. Most of the caches seem to have been vandalize by malevolent cachers. How many cachers have actually seen that movie? It was a good series of caches, but it is time to let them rest in peace.

[+Mama514]

Just an opinion from someone who only started last year. I really appreciate the older caches so if this one were to be reactivated, the year placed would be the main motivation for it being a target cache if I were in the area. And, especially since it was found 4 (?) Years after archival-- as was the listing removed. Which leads to my question: I've looked at the A.P.E. cache in Brazil and the online log says it had been archived once. Anyone know what happened there?

[+DragonsWest]

First - It's cool to see it recovered.

 

Second - It's their choice - do they cater to geocachers or do they do something easy and leave things as they are.

 

Third - I'd join the discussion on the blog, but I'm tired of creating log-ins, so I'll leave my only sentiments here.

 

Last - It was muggled by a determined arsehat. Probably happen again, then what? Unarchive APE Reclaimed?

[+funkymunkyzone]

If it's reactivated, then what about all the people who have visited from all over the world and experienced the cache, the tunnel, the whole adventure, but only been able to log the "reclaimed" cache? If it's just about making this rare cache type available again then all those people should be able to log it too. I mean otherwise are they expected to go to the expense of visiting again?

[+sunnyhill_Ahrtal]

get this piece of product placement to the next scrap press. Worst idea ever to reward finds of advertising with an own icon...

I never knew what APEs have to do with geocaching???

Edited November 15, 2016 by sunnyhill_Ahrtal

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I don't even mind if Mission 9 gets activated with a new container. The important thing is that the original listing becomes active again. I would have loved to see some of the others come back from the dead as well - original containers or not.

Groundspeak has made it clear in the past that the most important part of the Project A.P.E. caches was the original containers. Once those went missing, each one got archived, including Mission 9. The only reason this issue has arisen is because the original Mission 9 container has resurfaced.

 

Do you think that we would be having this discussion if the original container for Mission 7: Crab Creek (Gaithersburg, Maryland) was found? The Mission 9 APE cache has had special treatment (how many Going APE events have there been?) that no other APE cache has received.

 

 

[+narcissa]

If it's reactivated, then what about all the people who have visited from all over the world and experienced the cache, the tunnel, the whole adventure, but only been able to log the "reclaimed" cache? If it's just about making this rare cache type available again then all those people should be able to log it too. I mean otherwise are they expected to go to the expense of visiting again?

 

Oh well. Geocaches are ephemeral.