Difficult reviewers

[+Julieanno]

I'm new to Geocaching. I'm trying to introduce my kids to the Joys of geocaching. Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer? I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks. If so, I'm sad I just paid for the premium membership!

[+cheech gang]

This bodes well...

[+niraD]

The reviewers I've worked with have been great.

[Keystone]

There are no cache page submissions associated with your account. Are you talking about one of your friends' cache submissions? It would help the discussion if we knew the details. The GC Code or the name of your friend's account would be a great start.

 

Community Volunteer Reviewers apply the listing guidelines when deciding whether a geocache can be published. Since we are geocachers too, we like to publish as many caches as possible! When a cache doesn't meet the listing guidelines, we try to explain why, and suggest ways to fix the issue, like "your cache is too close to an existing cache, please move it so it's at least 528 feet from its neighbor."

 

It's quite normal for new cache hiders to have a few bumps in the road for their first cache hides. But, after awhile, you learn things like checking the land manager policies wiki, checking for proximity to other caches, telling the reviewer how and where your cache is hidden, etc. The more you learn, the easier it becomes to have smooth publications.

 

If you have concerns that you're being treated unfairly or rudely, a cache owner can obtain a second opinion by writing to the Appeals team at Geocaching HQ via the Help Center. The Appeals team are employees who supervise and coordinate the work of the hundreds of Community Volunteer Reviewers worldwide.

[+Manville Possum]

I have never had any problems working with any reviewers. They have been very helpful to me.

[+WarNinjas]

We placed a few ones when we first started and there were no problems. Then I started scoping out spots and making containers. One weekend when my daughter came up we spent all day placing them all around. I think it was 7. I was excited to see them published. Well it came back and all 7 were turned down for one reason or another. I kind of thought maybe the reviewer thought we had tried to place to many in one day not knowing we had been working on it for weeks.

Well NO that was not the case and he had legitimate reasons for them all. A year or so later I think 2 of the decisions might have been wrong as other caches were placed where we were told we couldn't but at the time it seemed legit.

My point is I realized it wasn't me or how many caches we had placed it was about the location and the placement. Now we have out over 100 and still get some rejected from time to time. Best to just listen to the reason and fix it and they will publish it.

[+Walts Hunting]

I'm new to Geocaching. I'm trying to introduce my kids to the Joys of geocaching. Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer? I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks. If so, I'm sad I just paid for the premium membership!

 

Elite not accepting new folks. Are you kidding. Have you seen the riff raff that this groups consists of. Go to one mega event and reevaluate your impression.

 

And since reviewers have been known to refer to themselves as "dogs" you have to assume some are "mutts"

[+Touchstone]

I'm new to Geocaching. I'm trying to introduce my kids to the Joys of geocaching. Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer? I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks. If so, I'm sad I just paid for the premium membership!

 

Link for reference:

 

Working with the Reviewer: Communication

 

Just taking a wild guess, but it sounds from the scant information you've given us, that you (under a different account), or family/friend/etc. is having difficulty getting a Listing Published. Many times it seems like these misunderstandings stem from inadequate communication. A couple of suggestions I can offer from experience:

 

1. As mentioned, read the Notes that the Reviewer posts if your Listing is rejected.

2. Make any adjustments that you can make, and post a Note to the Reviewer acknowledging the changes,or explanations/clarifications to address the issues that the Reviewer brought up.

 

You can always email the Reviewer through their Profile, but it seems to work better for me to keep all the conversation on the Listing page.

 

Good luck!

[+SageTracey]

Difficult to comment without any specific info about the OP's situation, but personally, I have never had an issue with a reviewer. I appreciated the feedback and educational support in placing my first cache. Since then, I have found that by providing more information that I would have originally thought necessary, asking questions, listening to responses and treating my reviewer as a fellow human with a life outside geocaching (truly, I have to work to pay the bills), I have never had a problem.

[+Team Microdot]

I've worked with two or three reviewers in the 5 years I've been geocaching and none of them were the slightest bit elitist - although I would fully understand if they were to adopt a rather formal approach in their communication in situations where they were being branded difficult as a result of providing a free service to the community as well as the benefit of their expertise and experience.

[Pup Patrol]

The title and subtitle of this thread:

Difficult reviewers

Rudely Denied

 

Yet:

 

There are no cache page submissions associated with your account.

 

Very confusing.

 

Not sure how the OP knows about a cache submission being denied.

 

Certainly can't understand the "rudely denied" part.

 

I doubt that the Reviewer was "rude" at all.

 

Perhaps the OP or whoever it is that is making the submission should look at the denial as matter-of-fact instead of rude, and work with the Reviewer. Calm, clear communication is always a better path.

 

Reading the Guidelines over and over and over again might make a bit of difference, too.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Help Center → Hiding a Geocache

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.book&id=19

 

As for some sort of "elitism", well, that's a strange assumption. Groundspeak itself is very encouraging of new cachers. Reviewers are helpful. Cachers themselves are usually quite friendly and helpful.

 

B.

[+cheech gang]

I'm new to Geocaching. I'm trying to introduce my kids to the Joys of geocaching. Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer? I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks. If so, I'm sad I just paid for the premium membership!

 

Julieanno, welcome to geocaching. We always welcome enthusiastic newcomers. I am sure you and the kids will find it a most enjoyable hobby. Have fun!

 

AS to the question you posed: "Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer?", I have been doing this for over a decade, have published 226 hides, and have never had anything but cordial relationships with reviewers and have never had a difficulty. So my answer is NO.

 

Sure, there are folks who may have had difficulties getting caches published, but 99 times out of 100 it is because they did not understand or did not agree with a published guideline. It is usually a failing on the part of the submitter, not the reviewer.

 

The title of your post is "Difficult Reviewers, rudely denied".

 

A reasonable reader would assume that you are expressing frustration in trying to get a cache published and it was denied in a rude manner. Apparently that is not the case.

Perhaps you know someone who experienced what they perceive to be a rude denial.

Perhaps you are referring to a post you read here somewhere. We do not know.

 

Regardless, it is hard to comment on your concern since you gave so little information. Who and what was denied and in what way was it rude?

 

What makes you feel that reviewers are not accepting of new folks? Or perhaps in that sentence are you not referring to reviewers at all but are referring in general to a comment you saw in the forums. Are the denizens of the forums what you refer to as "this elite group"?

 

Julieanno, just be aware that the forums can be a great place for camaraderie and a valuable learning resource. But like any internet forum it is made up of all types of people. Mostly great folks who are willing to help and welcome new folks. But as in any group of thousands of people there are always a couple curmudgeons and perhaps a couple professional snots.

 

Most of us really appreciate the hard work the unpaid reviewers do. Coming along out of the blue and basically stating in so many words: "Reviewers Suck" without any foundation or context is bound to elicit some negative reaction. Be ready for it.

[RuideAlmeida]

I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks.

 

I wonder if you aren't referring to the process of being a reviewer instead?!

Please take a look Volunteers.

[+niraD]

Just taking a wild guess, but it sounds from the scant information you've given us, that you (under a different account), or family/friend/etc. is having difficulty getting a Listing Published.

Just another wild guess, but maybe the OP tried to list a cache, but the system "rejected it" before it was even published, and the OP took the system's error message as a message from a volunteer reviewer.

 

But it's hard to know what's really going on with so little information.

[+wmpastor]

I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks.

 

I wonder if you aren't referring to the process of being a reviewer instead?!

Please take a look Volunteers.

 

Touche'!

 

...

 

Uh, you mean we're *not* an elite group???

[+Sapience Trek]

As Keystone has said, there don't seem to be any caches associated with your account, so I assume your concern was with a friend's account?

 

Without any details, a generic reviewer complaint thread like this isn't very useful. There could be dozens of reasons a cache may be denied. If it isn't your cache, then anything you heard from the cache owner may be missing some information or details, as I've seen happen in the forums here hundreds of times.

 

Please realize that in order to provide consistency and efficient customer service, most reviewers will use templates for a number of different placement problems. If you feel you were given a form letter, chances are you were. I have about a hundred form responses that I customize for each situation as needed. It allows me to be pretty consistent and complete in my reviews, though sometimes people don't like the form letter response, and perhaps this is what you meant by rudely denied?

[+wmpastor]

My theory is that the OP's friend has a gripe with the system, and (1) doesn't feel comfortable confronting the reviewer, (2) doesn't know how to go over the reviewer's head with an appeal, (3) doesn't feel comfortable raising the issue here (let's be honest, that *has* been a rocky road for a few newbies), & (4) thinks, hey, this is all much too serious for a fun, light-hearted game.

[+wmpastor]

Also, perhaps the reviewer for the district in question has some insight or maybe even remembers a recent submission. There was probably just a simple misunderstanding or miscommunication that can easily be straightened out.

 

Probably the answer lies not here is the forum (which could lead to needless speculation and angst), but in some dialog between the OP and a helpful reviewer.

 

I suggest that the reviewer from the region send her an email saying basically, "How can I help you resolve this issue?"

Edited July 3, 2015 by wmpastor

[Pup Patrol]

I suggest that the reviewer from the region send her an email saying basically, "How can I help you resolve this issue?"

 

Or the person who submitted the cache should take that initiative.

 

The Reviewer obviously gave an answer, probably a Guidelines violation.

 

It's up to the potential cache owner to try and figure out how to make things work, if possible.

 

It's too much to expect the Reviewers to do this. They've got a lot on their to-do lists as it is.

 

All crazy specualtion, of course. We don't have a clue what went on, what communication has been sent, etc, etc, etc.

 

It really is best for the person who is trying to place a cache to make the effort and open communication lines with the Reviewer.

 

B.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Maybe we should wait till the OP posts back.

[+wmpastor]

I suggest that the reviewer from the region send her an email saying basically, "How can I help you resolve this issue?"

 

Or the person who submitted the cache should take that initiative.

 

The Reviewer obviously gave an answer, probably a Guidelines violation.

 

It's up to the potential cache owner to try and figure out how to make things work, if possible.

 

It's too much to expect the Reviewers to do this. They've got a lot on their to-do lists as it is.

 

All crazy specualtion, of course. We don't have a clue what went on, what communication has been sent, etc, etc, etc.

 

It really is best for the person who is trying to place a cache to make the effort and open communication lines with the Reviewer.

 

B.

Totally agreed. However, the OP came here and then got wrapped up in the holiday weekend. Anyway, hope it works out - sounds like it could be a good family activity for them.

[+Walts Hunting]

Maybe we should wait till the OP posts back.

It is much more fun to spend days speculating and making accusations than get to the facts.

[+Julieanno]

I obviously opened up a can of worms I didn't quite expect. True, There are no hides associated with my account. It is with my daughters account but I am the premium member. But not much longer.

[+niraD]

I'm sorry that the volunteer reviewer's denial of your daughter's hide has caused such hard feelings. If it's any consolation, you aren't the first would-be cache owner to have problems getting a cache listed.

[+Markwell]

People seem to forget that reviewers are cachers. The more caches they publish, the more they can find as well. I would suggest trying to work with your volunteer reviewer. I'd be really surprised if you took on an attitude of understanding and trying to comply with the guidelines that they wouldn't help you try to get the cache published.

[+wmpastor]

The first hide any of us submit is the toughest. Everything is new. Finding the spot. Choosing the container. Figuring out how to list it. I wanted to use the bells and whistles for the cache page, and that had its own learning curve.

 

I guarantee that if you "tough it out" & get this hide published you'll have smooth sailing and a lot of fun.

[+cheech gang]

So now it has been established that this concerns an attempt by your daughter to get a cache published.

 

We assume that it was denied and you weren't happy with that. We know no details and can make no judgements nor offer any advice other than to work with the reviewer to resolve the issue.

 

You perceived some part of the response from the reviewer to be rude. We can not comment on that because you have offered no further supporting info.

 

You determined from this experience that reviwers are elitist and not welcoming towards new cachers.

 

Because of this you no longer want to be a premium member.

 

You have asked what others think of their experiences with reviwers and have received several andwers.

 

The ball is in your court. If you want advice then you need to provide more info. People here are willing to help.If you only want to vent then you have done that.

[+Sapience Trek]

I obviously opened up a can of worms I didn't quite expect. True, There are no hides associated with my account. It is with my daughters account but I am the premium member. But not much longer.

 

There were no details about the cache that was denied, so it's hard for anybody here (even reviewers) to offer any help.

 

Reviewers like nothing more than to see a new cache listing and being able to click the big green publish button without any sort of kick back - really, we like new caches too!

 

What was the problem with your daughter's cache that was given? If you posted any details about the cache or account, I'm sure some of us here would love to help clear up any misunderstanding you might have on the reason the cache couldn't be published.

[Pup Patrol]

I guarantee that if you "tough it out" & get this hide published you'll have smooth sailing and a lot of fun.

 

We have no idea why the submission was denied.

 

There is no guarantee that communicating with the Reviewer will change the outcome.

 

The best thing that will come of it will be that the OP's daughter will learn that Reviewers are not elitists and are willing to communicate with cachers who contact them in a polite, reasonable manner.

 

 

B.

[+wmpastor]

^^^ (cheech gang)

 

So if you are trying to get the cache published, there are basically two ways to move forward. You could go back to the reviewer and ask what needs to be done or changed to make the cache okay. Or you could tell us what the facts are and we could suggest solutions.

 

Some of the main reasons caches get denied are no-no locations (near railroad or bridge, area w/o permission or on private property, etc.), or no-no container (looks too much like a bomb, is nailed to a tree, etc.). Also, too close to another cache, including multicaches.

 

I had an interacton with a reviewer that was probably objectively "matter of fact," as someone here phrased it. However, to me as a new cacher at the time, it seemed heavy-handed, bureaucratic and borderline rude. And it was based on conclusions about the cache that were partly incorrect on the reviewer's part. I guess it's not the reviewer's job to suggest corrections, but if the reviewer had sent me a three-sentence email on how to correct the problem (part of which was due to an erroneous conclusion and did not actually need correction), I would have felt a lot better.

 

However, the situation got worked out and people are enjoying the caches.

 

I think this group in the forum can suggest solutions if you tell us the issue.

Edited July 4, 2015 by wmpastor

[Pup Patrol]

There have been a number of Reviewers post in this thread. Another example of how they are willing to help, if they are given some solid information.

 

If you privately contact one of the Reviewers who have posted here, and stated your daughter's username, then they could provide some help by being able to find the cache submission.

 

 

B.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[+Crow-T-Robot]

This thread seems to be the equivalent of someone posting "I am SO MAD RIGHT NOW!!!" on Facebook just so they can get people to beg them for information.

[+wmpastor]

This thread seems to be the equivalent of someone posting "I am SO MAD RIGHT NOW!!!" on Facebook just so they can get people to beg them for information.

 

Maybe after the barbecue ends and the guests leave Juieanno will decide to either (1) tell the story here and get advice, or (2) decide to discuss it privately with a reviewer.

 

Option 3, leaving the game in a huff, would be a rash move.

[+K13]

Some people like hydrocortisone for their rash.

[+ChileHead]

This thread seems to be the equivalent of someone posting "I am SO MAD RIGHT NOW!!!" on Facebook just so they can get people to beg them for information.

 

We call that "vaguebooking" here.

[+NanCycle]

I'm new to Geocaching. I'm trying to introduce my kids to the Joys of geocaching. Anyone having difficulties with a reviewer? I feel like this is an "elite" group that isn't accepting of new folks. If so, I'm sad I just paid for the premium membership!

 

You mean like this? I had a reviewer tell me a place I wanted to put a cache was "too close to a school" even though it was not on school property and was right next to a public walking/biking trail.

[+wmpastor]

Some people like hydrocortisone for their rash.

 

I'm not making or advising any rash moves, so feel free to use all of the medicine youself!

 

Note to OP: keep your premium membership for the zany forum dialog, if nothing else!

 

Seriously, I hope the daughter's cache gets published and they have a good time!

[+The GeoSpy]

CTReviewer has been kinda hard on some of my caches.

[+Sapience Trek]

CTReviewer has been kinda hard on some of my caches.

 

• A cache > 1000 miles from your home coordinates with no maintenance plan.
  
• A cache that requires a permit per land manager requirements.
  
• Caches too close to waypoints of other caches.
  
• A cache too close to active RR tracks.
  

 

What has CTReviewer been hard on other than trying to help you understand the guidelines for cache placement?

Edited July 4, 2015 by Sapience Trek

[+Touchstone]

CTReviewer has been kinda hard on some of my caches.

Considering CTReviewer reviews Listings in Connecticut, but the majority of your active Listings are in Florida, that might explain part of it

[+BCandMsKitty]

Maybe we should wait till the OP posts back.

 

Forget I said that.

 

The OP posted back but didn't say any more than the first vague posting.

 

Really wanting to get honest opinions, or just looking for attention?

I know we all try to be more understanding with those just getting started, but honestly!

Edited July 4, 2015 by BC & MsKitty

[+wmpastor]

CTReviewer has been kinda hard on some of my caches.

Considering CTReviewer reviews Listings in Connecticut, but the majority of your active Listings are in Florida, that might explain part of it

 

What's that mean - discrimination??

[+wmpastor]

Maybe we should wait till the OP posts back.

 

Forget I said that.

 

The OP posted back but didn't say any more than the first vague posting.

 

Really wanting to get honest opinions, or just looking for attention?

I know we all try to be more understanding with those just getting started, but honestly!

 

I do hope the OP posts again with details. This group has the mega-brainpower to solve this! Imagine all of the person-years of caching experience and the range of creative caching wisdom in this forum!

[+MtnMutt-ProDuckShins]

Seems the conflict may be that of one normal account and one Premium account and the misunderstanding as to why things are different for each of them.

[Pup Patrol]

Seems the conflict may be that of one normal account and one Premium account and the misunderstanding as to why things are different for each of them.

 

How are things different when it comes to new cache submissions and reviewing of them?

 

The Guidelines are the same for Basic Members and Premium Members.

 

B.

[+wmpastor]

Seems the conflict may be that of one normal account and one Premium account and the misunderstanding as to why things are different for each of them.

 

How are things different when it comes to new cache submissions and reviewing of them?

 

The Guidelines are the same for Basic Members and Premium Members.

 

B.

 

One key difference is this - the regular member doesn't see the premium caches on the map, and therefore is more likely to choose a location that ultimately is not accepted because of the 0.1 mile proximaty rule (unless he or she checks it out on someone else's premium account before going far along with the application process).

[+niraD]

One key difference is this - the regular member doesn't see the premium caches on the map, and therefore is more likely to choose a location that ultimately is not accepted because of the 0.1 mile proximaty rule (unless he or she checks it out on someone else's premium account before going far along with the application process).

Of course, all members (basic and premium alike) have to deal with hidden stages of mystery/puzzle caches, multi-caches, letterbox hybrid caches, Wherigo caches, etc. So saturation conflicts with unknown cache stages isn't unique to basic members, even though they might have more opportunities for such conflicts.