fixing up someone elses cache?

July 7, 2015

I am new to this and would like to know if it is ok to do some fixing up or repairs on other peoples caches that I find. Nothing like moving or re-hiding them , just adding a new log or replacing the container kinda stuff. *example* I found a cache yesterday that is a pill bottle but the top is gone and the log was just a wet post it note, can I replace it with a new bottle with a top and a new log and pencil. another near it is a old ziplock bag, can I replace it with a new one. I am sure its not a big deal but I don't want to upset anyone.

7.5k · July 9, 2015

I am new to this and would like to know if it is ok to do some fixing up or repairs on other peoples caches that I find. Nothing like moving or re-hiding them , just adding a new log or replacing the container kinda stuff. *example* I found a cache yesterday that is a pill bottle but the top is gone and the log was just a wet post it note, can I replace it with a new bottle with a top and a new log and pencil. another near it is a old ziplock bag, can I replace it with a new one. I am sure its not a big deal but I don't want to upset anyone.

Please don't be a crappy cache enabler. Do the game a favor and don't extend the life of poor quality caches. Post a Needs Maintenance. If there are already a couple of NM logs and no response from the cache owner (check their profile, perhaps they stopped visiting the site) it may be time to post a Needs Archive which gets the reviewer's attention and they will likely Temporarily Disable the cache giving the owner about a month to respond and fix the cache. If the CO has abadoned the cache and doesn't respond to the reviewer's disable message, then the cache will likely be archived in another month, opening up the space for another cache owner (hopefully someone responsible and willing to use a better container).

2.7k · July 9, 2015

LOne.R said it all. DO NOT enable a crappy owner. Replacing a log when one is in need, OK, BUT log a Needs Maintenance when you do it. Never replace a container without PRIOR cache owner permission.

Others may have differing opinions, but those opinions don't fit the Groundspeak guidelines.

1.4k · July 9, 2015

I agree with what is said above. I will fix up others caches but only if I know the cacher. Or once in a while if I feel I want to fix up a cache I will look at the CO past history. If they are active and seem to maintain there caches and a small fix will help I might do it. If I look and see they haven't been caching and most of there other caches are archived I won't fix them up. It all depends on the cache and the CO.

July 9, 2015

thanks for the input. I have send the CO a message and will work it out with them ...

7.3k · July 9, 2015

Cache owner has been receiving emails about the "found it" logs that mention that the cache needs maintenance.

It's too bad that people either don't know about the "Needs Maintenance" log option, or use it inappropriately.

This cache has been in need of owner maintenance for a while now.

http://coord.info/GC2A4AP

Thankfully someone finally posted the very appropriate NM.

B.

7.5k · July 9, 2015

Cache owner has been receiving emails about the "found it" logs that mention that the cache needs maintenance.

It's too bad that people either don't know about the "Needs Maintenance" log option, or use it inappropriately.

This cache has been in need of owner maintenance for a while now.

http://coord.info/GC2A4AP

Thankfully someone finally posted the very appropriate NM.

B.

The other one looks to be http://coord.info/GC22RN3

Looking at the cache owners hides, most of them have a red wrench. His caches that have a red wrench and our now archived were archived by a reviewer not the CO.

http://coord.info/GC22RN3 is just a baggie.

The cache has had 4 NMs on it. The container keeps disappearing but someone leaves behind the baggie. Maybe one of the nearby house owners is watching and toying with this cache.

The last NM was 05/27/2014. And many of the found it posts since then mention that the cache is only a baggie. The active owner has ignored this cache for over a year. If the OP puts out a new container, even with the cache owner's permission, the OP will be enabling a lazy owner and it's likely that their container will also go missing.

Edited July 9, 2015 by L0ne.R

July 10, 2015

Well I took it upon myself and repaired these 2 caches . While I understand and somewhat agree with your thoughts on not enabling lazy cache owners I feel these are important starter caches for beginners or at least they were to me. I have sent messages to the CO's letting them know what I did and also I wont be doing it again. I am sorry if some of you don't understand or agree with what/why I did this. I am really enjoying this and since I have not placed and of my own caches this is kinda my way of paying back the community.

6k · July 10, 2015

You would be what AA and NA call an enabler. You allow poor behaviour by others making them think that it is acceptable.

5.7k · July 10, 2015

I don't think you are doing geocaching or the community a favor by being a crappy cache enabler.

2.7k · July 10, 2015

Well I took it upon myself and repaired these 2 caches . While I understand and somewhat agree with your thoughts on not enabling lazy cache owners I feel these are important starter caches for beginners or at least they were to me. I have sent messages to the CO's letting them know what I did and also I wont be doing it again. I am sorry if some of you don't understand or agree with what/why I did this. I am really enjoying this and since I have not placed and of my own caches this is kinda my way of paying back the community.

Just a couple of things to consider:

"I have sent messages to the CO's letting them know what I did..." Why didn't you ask permission to replace the caches BEFORE doing it? Did you even think that those Cache Owners may have wanted to Archive for some reason?

If your "way of paying back the community" could only change to a Needs Maintenance log, followed 30-ish days later by a Needs Archived log, your community would be much better off. As it is now, you have placed two "important starter caches for beginners" except you won't be getting the logs sent whenever someone finds one of them.....too bad for you. You could have placed your own caches after these caches-with-crappy-owners were gone from the space.

MPH kinda sums it all up in his paraphrase of Clan Rifster..."I don't think you are doing geocaching or the community a favor by being a crappy cache enabler."

6k · July 10, 2015

I do have to wonder why you came here for advice when you didn't intend to consider it. Every response was that you were doing the geocaching community a disservice by enabling a poor CO. In your opening statement you end by saying you don't want to upset anyone. While no one is upset by it i guess you should probably not use that phrase again unless you intend to honor the community's advice.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Walts Hunting

1.4k · July 10, 2015

I think what you did was what you thought was right and I think it was a nice thing to do. We did the same when we started so don't even worry about it. Now you know what the community seems to think and you can decide what you want to do with the next ones like it that you find. This is just all for fun so if you are having fun that is what is most important. After a few years of playing and a few thousand finds you will be as grumpy as some of us old timers.

Remember this is just a game we play to have fun so enjoy it and maybe when you are ready use some of those containers to create your own hides. I am glad you are playing and the fact you came here to ask shows you care. I think you will be a great cacher!

July 10, 2015

Me coming here for advice was more of a "is it against some unwritten rule". I have plans to place my own caches but I am not looking to take over someone else's spot no matter how convenient it is for me. By me replacing that pill bottle top and log or that ziplock baggie means maybe some other beginner will be able to find them and start to love the game as me and my daughter did. I pray I never get to that stage in the game where I am grumpy or ungreatful because someone only hid a micro or has not been there to upkeep it.

July 10, 2015

"Why didn't you ask permission to replace the caches BEFORE doing it? Did you even think that those Cache Owners may have wanted to Archive for some reason? "

If that cache owner wanted to archive the cache for some reason why didn't he? And of course he still can if he wants to.

13.7k · July 10, 2015

Me coming here for advice was more of a "is it against some unwritten rule". I have plans to place my own caches but I am not looking to take over someone else's spot no matter how convenient it is for me. By me replacing that pill bottle top and log or that ziplock baggie means maybe some other beginner will be able to find them and start to love the game as me and my daughter did. I pray I never get to that stage in the game where I am grumpy or ungreatful because someone only hid a micro or has not been there to upkeep it.

To me, it seems that now two people have enforced the idea that a ziplock baggie has in some bizarre way become okay as a cache container.

If I was new to the hobby and saw a baggie in a park, I'd consider it garbage, throw it away, and keep looking for a container.

Later, after a DNF, when I go back to the cache page and find a CO thought a baggie a bright idea, I'd simply wonder what this silly hobby that expouses trash is all about...

7.5k · July 10, 2015

Me coming here for advice was more of a "is it against some unwritten rule".

There are written maintenance rules:

Step 5 - Maintaining Your cache

Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You will need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area negatively, and to check that the container is in good shape.

Also:

6.34. Geocaches That Need Maintenance

Additional reminders for geocache owners:

Replace the container if the current one is in bad condition
Make sure that that your container is watertight
If any of the contents are wet, dry them off or replace them
Check that there is enough space left in your logbook
If your geocache is not accessible due to weather, note this on the geocache page
Mark Trackables as "missing" if they are listed in the inventory but no longer are in the cache

Also:

3.6. I Found a Geocache that Needs Maintenance

If you find a geocache that is in need of some help (e.g. container is cracked, logbook is wet), please post a "Needs Maintenance" log so the geocache owner and the community is notified.

Here's how to post a "Needs Maintenance" log for a geocache:

Go to the cache page
Click "Log your visit"
Under "Type of Log", select "Needs Maintenance"
Write a short note to the cache owner so they understand what the issue may be

A "Needs Maintenance" log adds an attribute to the page (a red wrench) to alert the cache owner and other geocachers that the cache needs attention. "Needs Maintenance" logs do not increase find count and they are not forwarded to local Reviewers.

If the geocache has not been found for a reasonable amount of time and the cache owner has not reacted to a "Needs Maintenance" log, it is time to post a "Needs Archived" log on the listing. A "Needs Archived" log will alert the geocache owner and local Reviewer that the cache needs Reviewer attention.

The Reviewer normally gives the cache owner a few weeks to react to the "Needs Archived" log. The geocache will most eventually be archived if the owner does not properly maintain their cache.

July 10, 2015

I think what you did was what you thought was right and I think it was a nice thing to do. We did the same when we started so don't even worry about it. Now you know what the community seems to think and you can decide what you want to do with the next ones like it that you find. This is just all for fun so if you are having fun that is what is most important. After a few years of playing and a few thousand finds you will be as grumpy as some of us old timers.

Remember this is just a game we play to have fun so enjoy it and maybe when you are ready use some of those containers to create your own hides. I am glad you are playing and the fact you came here to ask shows you care. I think you will be a great cacher!

Thanks for the kind response WarNinjas. Have a new cacher coming here looking for advice and think some of the responses could of been little nicer and put positive spin it. I don't think "crappy enabler" was necessary. I do agree CO should be responsible for their own caches, but if you are out there you dont have all that information about a CO and all of their caches being archived. Yes need to log a NM so the cache is maintained. I don't think someone being nice and helpful will "hurt" the community. It is more people like that that will make this community and world a better place. Like WarNinjas said this game is suppose to be fun.

I have seen a lot of cachers creating Geocaching bags to cache with and they talk about packing maintenance items to help out with wet logs or missing pens/pencils and even containers. So I don't see a problem with doing that for someone. They will return the favor I am sure or someone will. But yes need to let CO know and send them a message as well.

Thats just my opinion on this. Happy Caching

July 10, 2015

Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that as a new cacher I did this recently, thinking it was a nice thing to do and in-keeping with the spirit. However, having read this and done a bit more research into the non-responsive CO (most of whose other caches have been disabled due to non-contact with the reviewer), I won't do it again. Every day's a school day.

I should add that I posted an NM and emailed the CO but got no reply.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Cachez

2.4k · July 10, 2015

The thing with being a "'crappy cache' enabler" is that, if you're in a more active area, you're keeping that spot filled. If the cache ends up getting archived, someone who is still active could place a new (and perhaps better???) cache in that general (and perhaps a better??) area.

So it's not just about teaching others not to do it, or keeping a cache alive - it's also about preventing a perhaps more responsible cache owner from putting a new cache there.

10.1k · July 10, 2015

Ah. This is tough. I've cached in that area. The one CO with the pill bottle... The CO is not very active, and his hides are not the best. When we found it, it was a nano. A few throw downs later it is a pill bottle. No resemblance to the original. I suggest NA.

Brookdale is a tough park for caches. Very few last very long. But most are not hidden well.

The Ziploc bag... This CO hid some great and imaginative caches, but seems to be missing from the game. Alas. Sad. When we found it, it was a small plastic hinged container. Not the easiest find. Obviously the cache is long missing, replaced by another bad throw down. Bad container, bad re-hide, inactive CO. I'd give that one an NA too. Sad. I enjoyed his hides.

Nothing about the current containers comes close to resembling the original hides.

July 10, 2015

I'm siding with WarNinjas and GoBucks 32. The trouble with guidelines and generalizations is that sometimes they don't fit the circumstances. You have consider each one at the time and the situation you happen to be in at the time. A new cacher coming here asking for feedback didn't deserve the heavy handed advice he/she got, the overall essence of which may have some merit. Still, it was a nice thing to do, rmorin415. The whole point is have fun.

July 11, 2015

I'm siding with WarNinjas and GoBucks 32. The trouble with guidelines and generalizations is that sometimes they don't fit the circumstances. You have consider each one at the time and the situation you happen to be in at the time. A new cacher coming here asking for feedback didn't deserve the heavy handed advice he/she got, the overall essence of which may have some merit. Still, it was a nice thing to do, rmorin415. The whole point is have fun.

Agreed.

I don't do throw downs but I replace wet logs, and do other minor fixes. Yes I look at circumstances involving the hider but I also think about the geocachers who come through the area looking for caches. This is common among cachers in our area.

PAul

2.7k · July 11, 2015

Well I took it upon myself and repaired these 2 caches . While I understand and somewhat agree with your thoughts on not enabling lazy cache owners I feel these are important starter caches for beginners or at least they were to me. I have sent messages to the CO's letting them know what I did and also I wont be doing it again. I am sorry if some of you don't understand or agree with what/why I did this. I am really enjoying this and since I have not placed and of my own caches this is kinda my way of paying back the community.

We were like you when we first started. We were enthusiastic, keen and wanted everything to be rosy and good and wanted to help out COs before we had our own caches. The enthusiasm soon wore thin when we saw caches that we had fixed or tidied up eventually again fall into a sad, sorry state by further neglect of their owners. When they get like taht they should be put out of their misery and the space freed. Nowadays we may add a log sheet if there is a full one on an otherwise healthy cache, or replace a wet one when a container has not been shut properly and on caches where we know that the owner is not MIA. BUT, we will not replace or fix dodgy containers that will continue to be a problem. You can save yourself future disappointment by using the NM the NA. Perhaps you could then place your own if the spot is worth it.

July 11, 2015

Thank you all for your replies and info. I got a few pm's telling me not to get discouraged by things said here, I am not taking any of this personal. I really enjoy the game and thank all that made this possible.

July 13, 2015

Good on ya.

I post NM for serious stuff, but always upgrade the swag, clear the rubbish and replace a full log.

Little things that can happen in all caches, well kept ones too, that adds to the game for the young families following us.

Edited July 13, 2015 by FourFunKiwis

7.3k · July 13, 2015

I'm siding with WarNinjas and GoBucks 32. The trouble with guidelines and generalizations is that sometimes they don't fit the circumstances. You have consider each one at the time and the situation you happen to be in at the time. A new cacher coming here asking for feedback didn't deserve the heavy handed advice he/she got, the overall essence of which may have some merit. Still, it was a nice thing to do, rmorin415. The whole point is have fun.

You mean like this?

Ah. This is tough. I've cached in that area. The one CO with the pill bottle... The CO is not very active, and his hides are not the best.

When we found it, it was a nano. A few throw downs later it is a pill bottle. No resemblance to the original. I suggest NA.

Brookdale is a tough park for caches. Very few last very long. But most are not hidden well.

The Ziploc bag... This CO hid some great and imaginative caches, but seems to be missing from the game. Alas. Sad. When we found it, it was a small plastic hinged container. Not the easiest find. Obviously the cache is long missing, replaced by another bad throw down. Bad container, bad re-hide, inactive CO. I'd give that one an NA too. Sad. I enjoyed his hides.

Nothing about the current containers comes close to resembling the original hides.

It's too bad that being honest and practical has been interpreted as being "heavy handed" or mean or whatever.

Ask for advice when you are new and haven't seen many different situations.

Get advice from experienced cachers who have seen many different situations over a number of years.

That's the way it goes.

It's too bad that folks can't recognize the difference between cleaning a cache and replacing one for an absentee cache owner.

Wondering if someone in that area is waiting for crappy caches like that to be archived, so that they can place new caches there? Perhaps those folks are better able to maintain their caches?

Enabling and prolonging the crappy caches can be all for naught. Something happens, someon posts the appropriate NM or NA, and only the (absentee) cache owner can properly deal with it. If it's not dealt with, the Reviewer comes along and disables or archives it.

Might take a while, but the proper course of action finally takes place.

NM and NA are for the good of the caching community. Enabled/prolonged caches are not. Beginners find these things and get the bad idea that:

1.) a ziplock bag passes for a proper cache container

2.) that maintaining their own caches is not necessary. Someone else will come along and take care of things.

Monkey see, monkey do.

B.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Pup Patrol

3.8k · July 13, 2015

Of course, all of this is meaningless if the cache was published in 2001 or earlier. In those cases, do everything in your power to keep them going :ph34r: :ph34r:

2.6k · July 13, 2015

Thank you all for your replies and info. I got a few pm's telling me not to get discouraged by things said here, I am not taking any of this personal. I really enjoy the game and thank all that made this possible.

You got jumped on by a few who believe alike. I think what you did was great and have been doing it for 12 years...I carry logs in ziplocks on my person and several varied containers in the truck. Its a simple little game that many overthink....the repairs you did will allow finders to grab these for a good while to come.

Trust me, the majority of cache owners appreciate the help and let me just say, GREAT JOB and keep up the good work.

July 13, 2015

You mean like this?

Actually, that is exactly what I meant. Knowing the history of a questionable cache can be very helpful and sometimes a NM or a NA is the way to go (unless it was published before 2001 as has already been pointed out :lol: ) I just think that in the "Getting Started" room with a new cacher, the information could have been given in a more positive, encouraging way.

7.5k · July 13, 2015

Trust me, the majority of cache owners appreciate the help and let me just say, GREAT JOB and keep up the good work.

I would say that the majority of cache owners have abandoned their caches and never intend to maintain them.

There are the few active cache owners who take pride in their cache and want people to have a good experience. They watch their cache pages, read every log. Go out to check on their cache at the first sign of trouble. Post a Temporarily Disable so that finders don't waste their time having a poor quality cache experience. Post an OM when they've checked and fixed their caches. They never leave their caches to become geolitter. They don't let their caches linger in disrepair (or missing status) for months until someone finally posts an NA then head out to check. They don't let the reviewer archive the cache. They post an Archived and pick up their cache(s) when they no longer enjoy taking care of their cache.

The database has become full of abandoned caches, most of which are in a bad state. Those propped up caches quickly become junk again. The "helpers" never come back to maintain what they've left. Responsibility matters little.

And in cache dense areas, spots don't open up for the potential responsible cache owner.

And what does it say to land managers when most of what's in the database has been abandoned by people who never intend to take care of their caches. It says geocaching is a geolitter game. Cache owners rarely take responsibility for checking on their caches.

I say take pride in your community's caches. Encourage responsible cache ownership.

Edited July 14, 2015 by L0ne.R

5.7k · July 14, 2015

Of course, all of this is meaningless if the cache was published in 2001 or earlier. In those cases, do everything in your power to keep them going :ph34r: :ph34r:

I never understood that reasoning. If it's old and ownerless, archive it and open up the location to another geocacher. I see no sense in holding real estate for ownerless listings. The game goes on.

2.7k · July 14, 2015

Of course, all of this is meaningless if the cache was published in 2001 or earlier. In those cases, do everything in your power to keep them going :ph34r: :ph34r:

I never understood that reasoning. If it's old and ownerless, archive it and open up the location to another geocacher. I see no sense in holding real estate for ownerless listings. The game goes on.

And often ending up as a perpetual(?)throwdown.

3.6k · July 16, 2015

Sometimes I don't mind if some fixes my cache like logsheets but for a repair or replaces on the container I prefer if someone asks me first. Otherwise just send me a note and I'll go out and fix it.

2.4k · July 26, 2015

I'll fix up a cache and post a needs maintenance as well.

I would fix up the cache because I couldn't stand the thought of that mess being the first geocaching experience for a child or new cacher.

I would post a needs maintenance to alert the cache owner (and the local reviewer) that they need to get out there and fix it up. If the cache owner gets out there and finds the cache in good shape great, at least they went out with the intent to fix it up. If they don't with any luck, in time, it will get archived.

2.4k · July 26, 2015

Trust me, the majority of cache owners appreciate the help and let me just say, GREAT JOB and keep up the good work.

I would say that the majority of cache owners have abandoned their caches and never intend to maintain them.

There are the few active cache owners who take pride in their cache and want people to have a good experience. They watch their cache pages, read every log. Go out to check on their cache at the first sign of trouble. Post a Temporarily Disable so that finders don't waste their time having a poor quality cache experience. Post an OM when they've checked and fixed their caches. They never leave their caches to become geolitter. They don't let their caches linger in disrepair (or missing status) for months until someone finally posts an NA then head out to check. They don't let the reviewer archive the cache. They post an Archived and pick up their cache(s) when they no longer enjoy taking care of their cache.

The database has become full of abandoned caches, most of which are in a bad state. Those propped up caches quickly become junk again. The "helpers" never come back to maintain what they've left. Responsibility matters little.

And in cache dense areas, spots don't open up for the potential responsible cache owner.

And what does it say to land managers when most of what's in the database has been abandoned by people who never intend to take care of their caches. It says geocaching is a geolitter game. Cache owners rarely take responsibility for checking on their caches.

I say take pride in your community's caches. Encourage responsible cache ownership.

Well said.

August 7, 2015

I can definitely see both sides of the argument here. I will add that in rural Detroit with the high concentrations of muggles and crazy weather we get here in MI, that there are a lot of us who do maintenance when we are out caching. Granted a large number of the local cachers are very close and own 90%+ of the active caches within 30 miles of my own residence.

Have I fixed a lazy owners cache? Probably, but enough of the other cachers have taken note and I usually get a thank you from the CO.

Do I hope someone would fix one of mine if they found it in disrepair? Absolutely! Sometimes things happen I was in the hospital for a long while early this summer and was so relieved a newby cacher re bagged one of my logbooks. Ziplocs rip and snow plows hit trees things happen during our crazy winters and we except that it most often does a lot of damage to local caches.

What fun is caching if all you have to look forward to is paper-mâché and angery logs

2.6k · August 7, 2015

I can definitely see both sides of the argument here. I will add that in rural Detroit with the high concentrations of muggles and crazy weather we get here in MI, that there are a lot of us who do maintenance when we are out caching. Granted a large number of the local cachers are very close and own 90%+ of the active caches within 30 miles of my own residence.

Have I fixed a lazy owners cache? Probably, but enough of the other cachers have taken note and I usually get a thank you from the CO.

Do I hope someone would fix one of mine if they found it in disrepair? Absolutely! Sometimes things happen I was in the hospital for a long while early this summer and was so relieved a newby cacher re bagged one of my logbooks. Ziplocs rip and snow plows hit trees things happen during our crazy winters and we except that it most often does a lot of damage to local caches.

What fun is caching if all you have to look forward to is paper-mâché and angery logs

I think this about says it....its a fun little game we play and I think too many " over think " it.

If everyone pitched in on cache maint. it would be a better game.....you wouldn't believe the critical posts I've read here through the years by folks who had never hid a single cache.

6k · August 8, 2015

If no one pictched in on cache maintenance it would be a great game. The CO's who are slackers and don't maintain their caches would stop putting out hopefully. The trashy ones they ignored would be archived and a conscentious CO could take their place making this world better.

fixing up someone elses cache?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation