premium only caches

[duckmalone]

I hate them because i dont think you should pay for them and i already paid 10 bucks for an app

[+Bear and Ragged]

I hate them because i dont think you should pay for them and i already paid 10 bucks for an app

 

Plenty of "Free" caches out there you can look for.

 

You could have got the "Free" intro app.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

[+Maconb]

I hate them because i dont think you should pay for them and i already paid 10 bucks for an app

 

Plenty of "Free" caches out there you can look for.

 

You could have got the "Free" intro app.

[+irisisleuk]

I hate them because i dont think you should pay for them and i already paid 10 bucks for an app

 

I don't, but we are very different. I've spent over £ 300 on a gps that I solely use for geocaching. Next to this I've spent lots more than 10 buck on each of our geocaches so others will enjoy them.

Not to mention all the money we've spent on trackables and goodies, all just to add to all the fun.

 

Oh and only one of our caches is a premium member cache, but as soon as we receive only logs with just one sentence, logs like the one you write, they all probably become premium member caches (or get archived).

[+Maconb]

I don't have a problem with premium caches. But I have seen a lot of people putting out road sign caches and other P&Gs all over the place just to give numbers to there buddies. This is done in return for more caches. These are all premium caches that are not about the challenge. I don't see the fun in it.

[+narcissa]

I don't really see the point, but there are plenty of caches that are available to everybody.

[+cerberus1]

Sorry, just realized today is Tuesday...

Edited July 29, 2014 by cerberus1

[+ArtieD]

Wow...seems like it's been a bit longer since the last thread complaining about PMO caches...

[Mr.Yuck]

Wow...seems like it's been a bit longer since the last thread complaining about PMO caches...

 

Being created in 2002, they've actually become much more an accepted fact of life over the years. They were actually much more controversial in the olden days.

 

I've always been ambivalent, but I do often point out that just because there are $30 Premium memberships (with many many features) does not necessarily mean there has to be, or ever had to be, Premium Member only caches.

[+narcissa]

Wow...seems like it's been a bit longer since the last thread complaining about PMO caches...

 

Being created in 2002, they've actually become much more an accepted fact of life over the years. They were actually much more controversial in the olden days.

 

I've always been ambivalent, but I do often point out that just because there are $30 Premium memberships (with many many features) does not necessarily mean there has to be, or ever had to be, Premium Member only caches.

 

I might think more of them if there was actually a noticeable difference in quality. I see no reason why an unremarkable guardrail cache, or a string of 75 film cans on a rail trail need to be PMO.

[+L0ne.R]

We have 3 premium caches (and 2 puzzles and several regular caches), I put a lot of work into the 3 PMO caches and feel that the PMO status protects them a little more than the regular status.

 

My observations:

• So far they are all doing fine and have been out for over a year
  • To test my theory I expect I'll make them regular soon, now that the visits are dying down

  [*]They get better logs

  • No acronym-only logs (but a couple "found with xxxx" logs)

  [*]They still get a lot of visits, probably only 20% fewer than our regular caches[*]I thought about making them easy puzzles but the 2 easy puzzles we have get 80% fewer visits then our regular caches

As a PMO owner, I do wonder sometimes why people PMO caches that have no value except to provide a smiley. Perhaps it's to thank the Groundspeak company.

Edited July 29, 2014 by L0ne.R

[+T.D.M.22]

I hate them because i dont think you should pay for them and i already paid 10 bucks for an app

 

I paid $200 for my GPS. And $500 for a computer. And $10 for the app. That has nothing to do with premium member only caches in any way.

 

Then are you saying that since you paid $30 once you deserve to have more available to you than those of us who pay $30 a year for 3, 4 even 10 years?

 

And then there's the fact that there's something you don't know about PMO caches. And if you really where that concerned you'd know this. A PMO cache is only un-viewable by basic members. However if for whatever reason you manage to find those caches, there are ways for you to log them-and they have been intentionally left open. So your complaint really isn't valid.

[+Roman!]

I hate the playboy mansion, they won't let me in.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Roman!

[+The_Incredibles_]

Interesting perspective. When I put a cache out, it costs me money to buy the container, the logbook, the swag and the spraypaint for the camo. It also costs me money to drive there to place the cache and to drive there to do regular maintenance checks.

[+Munkey990]

I guess I'm just the opposite. The more caching I do the more I wish they were all premium member only.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

Oh and only one of our caches is a premium member cache, but as soon as we receive only logs with just one sentence, logs like the one you write, they all probably become premium member caches (or get archived).

 

That's the trouble. Most of mine are PMO and I still get lame logs. I got a bunch yesterday and thought 'why did I bother?' I'm still looking for a platinum-member-only cache option.

[+ADKer]

Oh and only one of our caches is a premium member cache, but as soon as we receive only logs with just one sentence, logs like the one you write, they all probably become premium member caches (or get archived).

 

That's the trouble. Most of mine are PMO and I still get lame logs. I got a bunch yesterday and thought 'why did I bother?' I'm still looking for a platinum-member-only cache option.

 

There is, but you have to be a Charter-Platinum to be able to use it.

[+narcissa]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

[+ArtieD]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

[team tisri]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

[+ArtieD]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

Yes, because the site offers no perks whatsoever to those who choose to donate...

[+Semper Questio]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

They do not charge anyone to look for anything. You are free to do all the looking you want for free. Now if you want all the perks that makes preparing for and managing that looking easier, well, that's a different story and one which you must pony up for. I don't see the problem.

[+narcissa]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

Sure they are. I'm not obligated to help them.

[+ADKer]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

Groundspeak isn't a "geocaching company" if you know what I mean. They are a company that simply LISTS GEOCACHES (with a little extra stuff). They do not control geocaches, and they don' t control geocaching. For example, you can HIDE virtual caches all you want, but you just can't LIST them on geocaching.com. You CAN them on other geocaching websites, that just happen to be not as popular.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I keep seeing more and more newbies logging TFTC, and not hiding the cache back properly. If they start invading my caching areas, I will start making my caches Premium Only. But I have a lot of hiking caches and mystery caches, which the I-Phone kids do not go looking for.

[duckmalone]

I keep seeing more and more newbies logging TFTC, and not hiding the cache back properly. If they start invading my caching areas, I will start making my caches Premium Only. But I have a lot of hiking caches and mystery caches, which the I-Phone kids do not go looking for.

 

I am a newbie and I used to post TFTC logs because I saw others doing it, but now I am a CO and it is very annoying to get get TFTC or similar logs when I go through all the work to hide mine. Now I try to write more detailed logs and I understand PMO caches. Thank you guys for the responses

[team tisri]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

They do not charge anyone to look for anything. You are free to do all the looking you want for free. Now if you want all the perks that makes preparing for and managing that looking easier, well, that's a different story and one which you must pony up for. I don't see the problem.

 

I don't see a problem either, neither do I see a problem with narcissa's position that they'd place something that offered value to premium members if they got some reward in return. Otherwise they are adding value to Groundspeak's business while Groundspeak then takes all the proceeds.

[team tisri]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

Groundspeak isn't a "geocaching company" if you know what I mean. They are a company that simply LISTS GEOCACHES (with a little extra stuff). They do not control geocaches, and they don' t control geocaching. For example, you can HIDE virtual caches all you want, but you just can't LIST them on geocaching.com. You CAN them on other geocaching websites, that just happen to be not as popular.

 

We can play all sorts of semantic gymnastics but ultimately Groundspeak does control what is listed on geocaching.com - if you want to hide something that appeals to the largest audience you have to comply with their guidelines.

 

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

[+ArtieD]

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

Thing is, Groundspeak isn't really doing all that bad...certainly not bad enough go jump ship to other sites.

[+L0ne.R]

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

I'm too reliant on PQs, bookmark lists, and the ignore list to give up premium membership.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

Thing is, Groundspeak isn't really doing all that bad...certainly not bad enough go jump ship to other sites.

 

There are a lot of things they're doing right, but there is also room for improvement, depending on your perspective on where the game is going.

 

I also agree with narcissa, and see a direct correlation between how likely I would be to help them and the value of the product I'm getting for my money.

 

 

[+Semper Questio]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

They do not charge anyone to look for anything. You are free to do all the looking you want for free. Now if you want all the perks that makes preparing for and managing that looking easier, well, that's a different story and one which you must pony up for. I don't see the problem.

 

I don't see a problem either, neither do I see a problem with narcissa's position that they'd place something that offered value to premium members if they got some reward in return. Otherwise they are adding value to Groundspeak's business while Groundspeak then takes all the proceeds.

 

If I bought into the premise that PMO caches were a money-making for for Groundspeak, I may be with you on that. But I just don't see people lining up to buy premium memberships for PMO's. PQ's? Bookmark lists? Notifications? Ignore list? To support the site? Sure. I've heard all of these as reasons to pay up. But I honestly can't recall a single time I've heard someone say the became a premium member for the PMO's. Doesn't seem like much of a money-making perk to me.

[+irisisleuk]

I keep seeing more and more newbies logging TFTC, and not hiding the cache back properly. If they start invading my caching areas, I will start making my caches Premium Only. But I have a lot of hiking caches and mystery caches, which the I-Phone kids do not go looking for.

 

I am a newbie and I used to post TFTC logs because I saw others doing it, but now I am a CO and it is very annoying to get get TFTC or similar logs when I go through all the work to hide mine. Now I try to write more detailed logs and I understand PMO caches. Thank you guys for the responses

 

:) :) :) Great, enjoy the game! :) :) :)

[+The_Incredibles_]

I keep seeing more and more newbies logging TFTC, and not hiding the cache back properly. If they start invading my caching areas, I will start making my caches Premium Only. But I have a lot of hiking caches and mystery caches, which the I-Phone kids do not go looking for.

 

I am a newbie and I used to post TFTC logs because I saw others doing it, but now I am a CO and it is very annoying to get get TFTC or similar logs when I go through all the work to hide mine. Now I try to write more detailed logs and I understand PMO caches. Thank you guys for the responses

 

Excellent! You're one of us now.

[saltwatersoul]

Just curious as to how many caches are PMO in your area. I completely get that it will vary by location, but interested to hear the responses. I want to upgrade but have been trying to hold off for a bit on that expense since hubby (39) had a stroke (luckily fine though).

[+The_Incredibles_]

Just curious as to how many caches are PMO in your area. I completely get that it will vary by location, but interested to hear the responses. I want to upgrade but have been trying to hold off for a bit on that expense since hubby (39) had a stroke (luckily fine though).

 

I've taken a peek at your area. There are so few PMO caches, I wouldn't bother.

[team tisri]

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

Thing is, Groundspeak isn't really doing all that bad...certainly not bad enough go jump ship to other sites.

 

They do seem amazingly adept at introducing changes that break things while apparently lacking the resources to introduce changes that would be useful. Throw in endless micros and nanos and the fact it's been a while since you could be sure a cache would take you to an interesting area and I'd look to jump ship.

 

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

I'm too reliant on PQs, bookmark lists, and the ignore list to give up premium membership.

 

It's surprisingly easy to get by without them. Last year I thought I'd miss PQs so renewed my membership. This year I didn't think I'd miss them, and indeed I haven't. Truth be told I got sufficiently weary of hunting film pots in the kind of places that had a high chance of being used as a canine latrine I don't even miss geocaching.

[team tisri]

I'd place PMO caches if Groundspeak shared their profits with me.

 

Why should they? Aren't they allowed to make a profit as a private business?

 

It's nice when you can get volunteers to place the caches, volunteers to review the caches, volunteers to maintain the caches, and then charge people to go and look for them.

 

They do not charge anyone to look for anything. You are free to do all the looking you want for free. Now if you want all the perks that makes preparing for and managing that looking easier, well, that's a different story and one which you must pony up for. I don't see the problem.

 

I don't see a problem either, neither do I see a problem with narcissa's position that they'd place something that offered value to premium members if they got some reward in return. Otherwise they are adding value to Groundspeak's business while Groundspeak then takes all the proceeds.

 

If I bought into the premise that PMO caches were a money-making for for Groundspeak, I may be with you on that. But I just don't see people lining up to buy premium memberships for PMO's. PQ's? Bookmark lists? Notifications? Ignore list? To support the site? Sure. I've heard all of these as reasons to pay up. But I honestly can't recall a single time I've heard someone say the became a premium member for the PMO's. Doesn't seem like much of a money-making perk to me.

 

Groundspeak seem to think that access to PMO caches is a reason I might relent and send them another $30.

[+Manville Possum]

Just curious as to how many caches are PMO in your area. I completely get that it will vary by location, but interested to hear the responses. I want to upgrade but have been trying to hold off for a bit on that expense since hubby (39) had a stroke (luckily fine though).

 

I've taken a peek at your area. There are so few PMO caches, I wouldn't bother.

Within the last year in my area I would estimate that 90% of all new published geocaches are PMO. I used to hate PMO myself, then the invasion of the smartphone cachers and the free app came. Those that tried geocaching and soon left impacted the game, they trashed GZ. TFTC never bothered me, not everyone blogs about their finds. Childish obscene notes on my log book is different, and most newbies won't shell out the membership fee or support this site. PMO caches are worth it to me, now that I use an Android app I seldom ever run a PQ anymore.

[+TerraViators]

Your disdain for PMO caches might change after you've had a few great containers stolen by a TFTC logger.

[+Manville Possum]

Your disdain for PMO caches might change after you've had a few great containers stolen by a TFTC logger.

All of my caches are PMO, reguardless of what type container. I only have 3 ammo can hides in place, most of my containers are the W/P Plano containers or ones from shop Groundspeak.

[+ArtieD]

Throw in endless micros and nanos and the fact it's been a while since you could be sure a cache would take you to an interesting area and I'd look to jump ship.

 

If you dislike micros, go after the hiders. Groundspeak has nothing to do with what size of a container people use for their hides. As far as it goes, though, size does not dictate cache quality.

 

Your disdain for PMO caches might change after you've had a few great containers stolen by a TFTC logger.

 

Or intro app cachers who feel the need to move your well-camoed cache to a different spot to make it easier for the nest person to find...

[+TerraViators]

I've had two containers, in which I've spent several hours crafting and finding good hiding spots. Both have disappeared, which almost takes the desire to recreate them out of me. Of course, I can't prove a geocacher stole them, but they were in areas in which I'd guess 90% of most people would never randomly walk.

[+ArtieD]

I've had two containers, in which I've spent several hours crafting and finding good hiding spots. Both have disappeared, which almost takes the desire to recreate them out of me. Of course, I can't prove a geocacher stole them, but they were in areas in which I'd guess 90% of most people would never randomly walk.

 

"The chance that a cache will be muggled or destroyed increases in direct proportion to the amount of time, effort and money a cacher spends on creating it." - A&T's Law of Geocaching Containers

 

I have been there.

 

I created a cryptex cache with a custom PVC container to house it in, placed it in an area almost never frequented by muggles. Poof! Gone in six months or so.

 

I created a fishing lure cache that literally involved an ER visit during it's creation. I attached it to a spot that you'd have to be intentionally looking for it to see it with 50-lb. line on an inch-thick root. Poof. Gone in less than a week and the person broke the root to get the container, seemingly because the line did not break.

 

However, I can spend all of ten minutes buying a key holder and slapping it on a guard rail and it'll be there for years. Examples like this are reason enough why people are hesitant to hide creative caches.

[+TerraViators]

I've had two containers, in which I've spent several hours crafting and finding good hiding spots. Both have disappeared, which almost takes the desire to recreate them out of me. Of course, I can't prove a geocacher stole them, but they were in areas in which I'd guess 90% of most people would never randomly walk.

 

"The chance that a cache will be muggled or destroyed increases in direct proportion to the amount of time, effort and money a cacher spends on creating it." - A&T's Law of Geocaching Containers

 

I have been there.

 

I created a cryptex cache with a custom PVC container to house it in, placed it in an area almost never frequented by muggles. Poof! Gone in six months or so.

 

I created a fishing lure cache that literally involved an ER visit during it's creation. I attached it to a spot that you'd have to be intentionally looking for it to see it with 50-lb. line on an inch-thick root. Poof. Gone in less than a week and the person broke the root to get the container, seemingly because the line did not break.

 

However, I can spend all of ten minutes buying a key holder and slapping it on a guard rail and it'll be there for years. Examples like this are reason enough why people are hesitant to hide creative caches.

I, too, have a fishing lure geocache. Fortunately, it has remained safe. Of course, it's down a very lonely trail and about fifteen feet high in a tree.

[+Manville Possum]

I've had two containers, in which I've spent several hours crafting and finding good hiding spots. Both have disappeared, which almost takes the desire to recreate them out of me. Of course, I can't prove a geocacher stole them, but they were in areas in which I'd guess 90% of most people would never randomly walk.

 

"The chance that a cache will be muggled or destroyed increases in direct proportion to the amount of time, effort and money a cacher spends on creating it." - A&T's Law of Geocaching Containers

 

I have been there.

 

I created a cryptex cache with a custom PVC container to house it in, placed it in an area almost never frequented by muggles. Poof! Gone in six months or so.

 

I created a fishing lure cache that literally involved an ER visit during it's creation. I attached it to a spot that you'd have to be intentionally looking for it to see it with 50-lb. line on an inch-thick root. Poof. Gone in less than a week and the person broke the root to get the container, seemingly because the line did not break.

 

However, I can spend all of ten minutes buying a key holder and slapping it on a guard rail and it'll be there for years. Examples like this are reason enough why people are hesitant to hide creative caches.

Yeah, even my custom made fake dog turd cache was stolen. Rusty Altiods tins under a lamp skirt are there forever.

[+narcissa]

Personally I think it's long overdue people started listing elsewhere to rein in the monopoly, but presumably enough people continue to hand over their $30 that Groundspeak don't care what I think.

 

I'm too reliant on PQs, bookmark lists, and the ignore list to give up premium membership.

 

I'm happy to pay for premium membership when I'm geocaching a lot. The pocket queries alone make the cost worthwhile.

 

I'm not interested in hiding PMO caches. They already get $60 a year from our household. I'm under no obligation to help them make more.

 

We just make our caches more difficult in order to keep the jerks away. I see no need to hide traditionals when they already make up the vast majority of geocaches out there. Someone else can worry about their extra-special containers hidden at the posted coordinates. There's no way this is ending up on the intro app. Difficult caches are found far less often, but to me, one great find log is worth 500 TFTCs.

[+noncentric]

Full disclosure, I'm new to finding geocaches. I've been interested in the hobby for some time (signed up on this site five years ago). I never got around to buying a GPS unit and only recently got a smartphone...so now I'm out testing the waters of this activity.

 

My thoughts on Premium-only caches is that it's tough not knowing their general vicinity. I'm trying to plan an interesting cache container and there's a nearby park that is cache-less when I look at the map. I started scouting the area for a good hiding spot, besides picnic tables, but then I learned about PMO caches and am thinking there's probably already caches in that park. It would be disappointing to plan a cache and then find out, after submitting it, that there's already one nearby. I may spring for Premium membership once I'm ready to place my own caches, just so I can find available locales...however, my area is already pretty saturated so it's doubtful I'll find a nearby blank spot that's interesting enough to lead people to.

 

Even if basic members can't see the coords of a PMO cache, it would be awesome if the map could somehow indicate the general area of PMO caches. Having a big circle around a PMO cache probably doesn't work, since someone could go to the exact center of the circle and start searching. Maybe random polygon shapes would work...replacing the small squares on the map with larger polygons that obscure the exact locations, but at least give an idea of how many PMO caches are around. If an area has a lot of PMO caches, then people may be incentivized to become members.

[+narcissa]

It would be disappointing to plan a cache and then find out, after submitting it, that there's already one nearby.

 

This is also true of multis, puzzles, and letterbox caches where you don't know the final coordinates. The solution is to check with the reviewer to make sure a spot is okay before you place the cache.