International Souvenirs

[+DSG53DoyleStreetGang]

I have had a rare chance to cache out the US this summer.

I logged caches in England, Namibia, Botswana and Zambia.

I received a souvenir for England but none for the African countries.

What is the criteria for virtual souvenirs in Africa, do they not exist yet?

How do they complete the process to create new virtual souvenirs?

Thanks in advance

[Pup Patrol]

I have had a rare chance to cache out the US this summer.

I logged caches in England, Namibia, Botswana and Zambia.

I received a souvenir for England but none for the African countries.

What is the criteria for virtual souvenirs in Africa, do they not exist yet?

How do they complete the process to create new virtual souvenirs?

Thanks in advance

 

There are no souvenirs currently available for Namibia, Botswana and Zambia.

 

If/when Groundspeak releases more souvenirs, perhaps those countries might be on the list. Probably not. Not holding my breath waiting for GS to release more country souvenirs, even if the artwork has been created.

 

Help Centre → Souvenirs → Souvenirs

1.2. List of Available Souvenirs

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=792

 

B.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Pup Patrol

[+TriciaG]

Basically, they have souvenirs for the most active Geocaching countries. Once in a while they release more, and it's mostly based on how active the country is for cachers.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I have had a rare chance to cache out the US this summer.

I logged caches in England, Namibia, Botswana and Zambia.

I received a souvenir for England but none for the African countries.

What is the criteria for virtual souvenirs in Africa, do they not exist yet?

How do they complete the process to create new virtual souvenirs?

Thanks in advance

 

As Pup Patrol said, there are no souvenirs for Namibia, Botswana, and Zambia (there is one for South Africa though). I feel your pain though. I've found caches in Zimbabwe, Tanzania, and Ethiopia and don't have souvenirs for those countries either.

 

The process that GS has used for creating regional souvenirs in the past has mostly been based on choosing countries based on the number of caches available in the country and they've typically released new souvenirs in "batches" for a dozen or so countries at a time about once a year. Depending on how many are released in the next batch, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Kenya, and Egypt could be included.

 

[+hzoi]

Country (or region) souvenirs have been released periodically since souvenirs were first introduced in 2010. The release has been based on the number of caches available and active cachers in those countries or regions.

 

Namibia currently has 292 caches, Botswana 69, and Zambia 33. I think of all the countries that currently have souvenirs, Iceland has the least at 645; the others I've checked have at least 1,000. Namibia would seem closer to getting one than the others, but it may be a good while before that happens.

[+DSG53DoyleStreetGang]

Thanks for the replies.

Information is appreciated very much

[+fuzziebear3]

When they did release them in the past, they were retroactively applied if you had already cached in that area. So if they do release them, you should get them automatically.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

When they did release them in the past, they were retroactively applied if you had already cached in that area. So if they do release them, you should get them automatically.

 

Yep. The Souvenirs page on the web site will even show the date when qualified for the souvenir, not when it was released. The first souvenir was released on 10/10/2010, and I've got several which show that they were "Acquired On" a date well before that.

 

The retroactive awarding of souvenirs process had some performance when some of the regions which had a high number of cachers were released (e.g. the German States) and several new souvenirs were released at once. Now that most of the remaining countries have 1000 caches or fewer that won't be an issue so theoretically they ought to be able to release souvenirs for more countries the next time they release a batch of new ones.

 

 

[+admuk]

How do I "nominate" China (People's Republic of) and Taiwan for national souvenirs? There are quite a few caches in each and an active community in Taiwan as well (I just arrived in Wuhan and haven't contacted anyone there yet).

 

Donn (the D in Team ADmuk)

[+MartyBartfast]

How do I "nominate" China (People's Republic of) and Taiwan for national souvenirs?

 

You don't, Groundspeak decide it for themselves. It's been suggested that they're awarded to the countries with the most caches that haven't already got a souvenir, while I'm not sure whether that theory has been confirmed or proven if it is correct then Taiwan could be in the next batch of souvenirs, and China soon afterwards - but who knows....

[+NYPaddleCacher]

How do I "nominate" China (People's Republic of) and Taiwan for national souvenirs?

 

You don't, Groundspeak decide it for themselves. It's been suggested that they're awarded to the countries with the most caches that haven't already got a souvenir, while I'm not sure whether that theory has been confirmed or proven if it is correct then Taiwan could be in the next batch of souvenirs, and China soon afterwards - but who knows....

 

The countries chosen for the release of souvenirs have *mostly* followed the pattern based on the number of caches in the country but they've diverged from that a few times. Thailand has a souvenir and the next country without a souvenir with the highest number of caches is Hong Kong, which has more caches than four countries which have a souvenir. Taiwan has more caches than three other countries that have souvenirs. Next on the list would be China, Argentina, Puerto Rico, and Cyprus. When I found a cache in China in 2009 it had very few caches but has grown significantly, especially in Beijing.

 

It seems to me that rather than use the number of caches in the country it would make more sense to use the number of finds in the country as that would translate to the number of geocachers in the country plus those that visit the country.

 

 

 

[chephy]

The whole topic baffles me. There are relatively few countries in the world. It should be two weeks of work tops to design souvenirs for every single one of them. Why is it taking GC.com years to come up with a couple of country souvenirs is inexplicable to me.

[+pingurus]

On 10/16/2016 at 1:01 PM, admuk said:

How do I "nominate" China (People's Republic of) and Taiwan for national souvenirs? There are quite a few caches in each and an active community in Taiwan as well (I just arrived in Wuhan and haven't contacted anyone there yet).

 

Donn (the D in Team ADmuk)

Just checked, China has a souvenir.

[+niraD]

4 hours ago, chephy said:

The whole topic baffles me. There are relatively few countries in the world. It should be two weeks of work tops to design souvenirs for every single one of them. Why is it taking GC.com years to come up with a couple of country souvenirs is inexplicable to me.

The problem is not the artwork ("two weeks of work tops to design souvenirs for every single one of them"). The problem is the code that decides when to award each souvenir.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

9 hours ago, chephy said:

The whole topic baffles me. There are relatively few countries in the world. It should be two weeks of work tops to design souvenirs for every single one of them. Why is it taking GC.com years to come up with a couple of country souvenirs is inexplicable to me.

There are 248 countries on the official geocaching countries list.  49 of them already have souvenirs available (plus state/provinces in the US, Canada, Australia, Germany and Ireland).  I'd be really surprised if someone could do the artwork for 200 in two weeks.  Keep in mind that just selecting what to use for the artwork isn't so simple either.  There have been a few in which residents of the country thought that it didn't represent the country well. 

As niraD wrote there is also the code needed and compute time for awarding souvenirs that takes time, especially for the retroactive awarding of a souvenir those that had previously found a cache in the country.  

[+Viajero Perdido]

Technical issues, political issues...

Some caches in Mexico have the state identified, some don't. The code never enforced it, apparently. Somebody or some code would have to retroactively assign states. So don't expect Mexican-state souvenirs in this lifetime.

Some areas are politically disputed. Ask India or China for their take on their borders, then ask their neighbors. I can assure you, Groundspeak doesn't want to hear from anybody's embassy.

But since Marketing has jumped on souvenirs as a rah-rah opportunity, who knows?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

18 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Technical issues, political issues...

Some caches in Mexico have the state identified, some don't. The code never enforced it, apparently. Somebody or some code would have to retroactively assign states. So don't expect Mexican-state souvenirs in this lifetime.

Some areas are politically disputed. Ask India or China for their take on their borders, then ask their neighbors. I can assure you, Groundspeak doesn't want to hear from anybody's embassy.

But since Marketing has jumped on souvenirs as a rah-rah opportunity, who knows?

Although many of the souvenir do seem more like marketing promotions the country/region based souvenirs feel to me more like the traditional definition of a souvenir (as a token of remembrance).  I'd never really noticed that some caches in Mexico have a state associated with them and some don't.  Several years ago I noticed the initially only a few countries (US, Canada) also had a StateID but GS started to 2nd level administration regions for many other countries (Italy, France, etc).  On the cache submission form one could enter the State (and I know of caches where a CO got it wrong) and that it was not chosen automatically by reverse geocoding from the published coordinates.  Mexico is probably only one of those countries which only had a originally but states were subsequently added.  I see that the oldest cache in Italy, placed in 2001,  has a state/region but a cache placed later in the year does not.  

[chephy]

On 2/4/2018 at 2:53 AM, niraD said:

The problem is not the artwork ("two weeks of work tops to design souvenirs for every single one of them"). The problem is the code that decides when to award each souvenir.

Surely there is a pretty basic file somewhere that contains boundary information, so that for any set of coordinates it tells you what country the point is in. I understand the computational load of combing through all the finds to award a souvenir can be quite large, but retroactive souvenirs have happened before quite a few times, so the procedure is in place...

[+MartyBartfast]

37 minutes ago, chephy said:

Surely there is a pretty basic file somewhere that contains boundary information, so that for any set of coordinates it tells you what country the point is in.

That's not the problem as that information is already known (look to the right of the co-ords on any cache page and it tells you which state/region and country the cache is in).

I've seen it said in a few places that the problem is in the code required to do the souvenirs, and without seeing the code we can't really make any judgement, but I must admit I'm struggling to imagine any code which is so badly written that they couldn't (relatively) easily extend what's currently in place for the xx countries so far out to every country.

As for the workload involved in retrospectively awarding souvenirs, that could probably be done either in batches or as a low priority background job and even if it takes a couple of weeks it would not matter.

 

[+The A-Team]

5 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

I've seen it said in a few places that the problem is in the code required to do the souvenirs...

While the load of retroactively awarding the souvenirs may have been a significant factor in the past, I doubt that it's much of a factor for the remaining countries, and it could be easily worked around using batches. The "countries" without souvenirs with the most caches are:

• #37 - Taiwan (1947)
• #40 - Hong Kong (1826)
• #42 - Israel (1701)

Starting with the 48th highest country, the rest of them have less than 1000 caches. By the time you get to #83, they have less than 200. I wouldn't expect much load from most of the remaining countries.

At this point, the primary limiting factor is almost certainly the artwork. I suspect it isn't a coincidence that Taiwan hasn't gotten a souvenir yet, primarily because of the potential tension that could surround the artwork due to China's claim over the territory. Artwork for Israel would also require very careful consideration to avoid a potential firestorm.

However, once appropriate artwork can be created for each country, there really isn't any reason why we couldn't finally get souvenirs for every country. Someone just needs to sit down and get it done. If HQ isn't sure what would be appropriate for each artwork, there's a readily-accessible community of cachers in most of the countries who I'm sure would be happy to provide suggestions for appropriate and non-offensive material.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 2/21/2018 at 3:58 PM, The A-Team said:

While the load of retroactively awarding the souvenirs may have been a significant factor in the past, I doubt that it's much of a factor for the remaining countries, and it could be easily worked around using batches. The "countries" without souvenirs with the most caches are:

• #37 - Taiwan (1947)
• #40 - Hong Kong (1826)
• #42 - Israel (1701)

Starting with the 48th highest country, the rest of them have less than 1000 caches. By the time you get to #83, they have less than 200. I wouldn't expect much load from most of the remaining countries.

At this point, the primary limiting factor is almost certainly the artwork. I suspect it isn't a coincidence that Taiwan hasn't gotten a souvenir yet, primarily because of the potential tension that could surround the artwork due to China's claim over the territory. Artwork for Israel would also require very careful consideration to avoid a potential firestorm.

However, once appropriate artwork can be created for each country, there really isn't any reason why we couldn't finally get souvenirs for every country. Someone just needs to sit down and get it done. If HQ isn't sure what would be appropriate for each artwork, there's a readily-accessible community of cachers in most of the countries who I'm sure would be happy to provide suggestions for appropriate and non-offensive material.

The load on the system for retroactively awarding souvenirs definitely did cause some issues in the past but I agree that for the remaining countries the load would be small.  Of course, the load on the system would be related to the number of finds not the number of caches.   It would be interesting to see a statistic which showed the percentage of finds on caches per country from geocachers which do not have home location in that country.  Countries at the top of that list would be prime for a souvenir as it would suggest that these are places geocachers are traveling to visit and a souvenir from that country would be more in alignment with the "real life" reason for a souvenir.  In "real life" most people don't buy souvenirs from the area in which they live.  

All of the previous country/region based souvenirs have been done in batches and with the # of finds in those remaining countries the system could certainly handle larger batches.  I can't see any reason why these batches have to come only once a year though.  Souvenirs in general have become just another  promotional tool so that annual release of country/region souvenirs has become just another promotion.  IF GS started to release small batches of new country souvenirs every few weeks they'd lose that annual opportunity for a promotion.

There have been many that have suggest to just use an image of the countries flag for the artwork but then we'd just get complaints about "why do the Germany states get this cool artwork and we just get a flag".  

[YCChen]

On 2/22/2018 at 4:58 AM, The A-Team said:

While the load of retroactively awarding the souvenirs may have been a significant factor in the past, I doubt that it's much of a factor for the remaining countries, and it could be easily worked around using batches. The "countries" without souvenirs with the most caches are:

• #37 - Taiwan (1947)
• #40 - Hong Kong (1826)
• #42 - Israel (1701)

Starting with the 48th highest country, the rest of them have less than 1000 caches. By the time you get to #83, they have less than 200. I wouldn't expect much load from most of the remaining countries.

At this point, the primary limiting factor is almost certainly the artwork. I suspect it isn't a coincidence that Taiwan hasn't gotten a souvenir yet, primarily because of the potential tension that could surround the artwork due to China's claim over the territory. Artwork for Israel would also require very careful consideration to avoid a potential firestorm.

However, once appropriate artwork can be created for each country, there really isn't any reason why we couldn't finally get souvenirs for every country. Someone just needs to sit down and get it done. If HQ isn't sure what would be appropriate for each artwork, there's a readily-accessible community of cachers in most of the countries who I'm sure would be happy to provide suggestions for appropriate and non-offensive material.

 

now, it is 2021. 

Do  these 3 countries have their own souvenir?

[Keystone]

7 minutes ago, YCChen said:

 

now, it is 2021. 

Do  these 3 countries have their own souvenir?

 

You can see a list of available souvenirs here at Project-GC.com, or by following the link in the signature line of The A-Team, whose post you quoted.

 

Israel now has a Souvenir, and new countries are added to the list each year.  There are now 79 Country Souvenirs available.  Unfortunately, Hong Kong and Taiwan are not yet on that list.