This IRKS me

[+jampoi]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

[+niraD]

See also:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306

[+The_Incredibles_]

I can understand that it may be frustrating to find caches poor shape.

 

Maybe take a bit of time to help out in your area? Say, if you're going out, pick one cache to fix up.

 

If you find the caches in your area lacking, you can also hide some of your own, the way you think a cache should be hidden.

 

One more thing you can do is to write interesting logs detailing your adventures and letting the cache owners know you appreciate their efforts. For a cache owner that's still "around" this might encourage them to maintain their caches better than if everybody's writing TFTC on their cache.

[DannyCaffeine]

Whenever I take anyone caching especially kids I tell them it is the thrill of the hunt and the challenge of exploring that is the real fun of geocaching. Its not all about the material prize. Sometimes its a nice view, or finding that tricky micro or a clever multi. Sure for kids it is fun to get something out of the find but it isn't always necessary.

[+Psychaesthetic]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

 

Nobodies stopping *you* from going out and planting a bunch of caches for your grandkids to find, if that's so important. Only cost ya a plastic container, a pad and a pencil.

[+T.D.M.22]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

 

Nobodies stopping *you* from going out and planting a bunch of caches for your grandkids to find, if that's so important. Only cost ya a plastic container, a pad and a pencil.

 

Exactly. I'd like to add that geocaching is not about the SWAG- you want mccrappy toys then go buy a happy meal. There's no requirement to trade, only to trade up or even. And nothing is stopping you from takng that "crap" from one cache and putting it in another.

 

As for caches not being hidden- read the descriptions, and look at the difficulty rating.

[+keylev]

I regularly cache with my 4 and 6 year old and although they do love looking at the 'treasure' we very rarely take anything - rather we have a little pack in our kit of things to leave for the next person - mini toy skateboards, badges, keyrings etc.

 

They are still in wonder at the mere fact we are searching and finding the caches hidden in so many different ways. I regularly get the 'Can we just look for one more - just one??'

 

If you build their hopes up before you go unfortunately you and they will be disappointed.

[+luvvinbird]

Some "useless junk" may have been put there by other children. Often, the little ones may leave a stone or a leaf to replace what they removed. I've seen such items in some of my caches. I agree that the kids should be more excited about the adventure of finding a cache rather than what's inside of it.

[+The Leprechauns]

People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding.

A cache owner does not have a duty to serve as a free version of Wal-Mart, Dollar General and McDonalds for little boys and girls.

 

I stock my caches to the brim with new trade items when they're hidden. Trade items are usually of interest to new geocachers and geocachers with kids. Within a year the contents are reduced to gum wrappers, broken toys and expired coupons. So, the OP's wrath should be directed at new geocachers and at geocachers with kids. I did my part as a cache owner; the rest is left to the "trade up or trade even" ethic.

 

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

[+cheech gang]

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

 

I have often used that sleight of hand technique. Works well.

[+L0ne.R]

.. full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches.

 

Tip for increasing your chance of finding caches with swag in better condition - look for newly planted caches, preferably regular or large size. Small is OK but if the owner says "No room for a pencil, bring your own" it's likely a micro listed as a small and won't have room for swag.

Wet unmaintained caches are a burr in my saddle too. Wet often means they used a leaky container (dollar store containers for example). I especially get irked when I see that every other log mentions the crack in the lid, or the broken tab, or the moldy contents yet the cache owner does nothing.

 

When you find a messy cache - wet log, moldy, 1/4 filled with water, write about the condition of the cache in your log. Post a Needs Maintenance if the problem is more then a minor issue (examples of minor - condensation that a finder could easily wipe down, a few stones and broken toys that can be removed by the finder). Post a Needs Archive if there have already been numerous logs about the problem and a prior NM log but the CO is not responding. Needs Archive gets the attention of a reviewer, s/he will post a reviewer note which usually gets the attention of the CO. If the cache is abandoned eventually the reviewer will end up archiving the cache.

[+L0ne.R]

I can understand that it may be frustrating to find caches poor shape.

 

One more thing you can do is to write interesting logs detailing your adventures and letting the cache owners know you appreciate their efforts. For a cache owner that's still "around" this might encourage them to maintain their caches better than if everybody's writing TFTC on their cache.

 

I had a look. Ackkk. TFTC-only logs. I agree that effort goes both ways. A log describing the visit to the cache is far more encouraging. As a CO it's the people who comment specifically about our cache(s) and say how they enjoyed the swag, who motivate me to maintain our caches and regularly replenish the supply.

[+basscat5]

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

[+Crow-T-Robot]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

 

Nobodies stopping *you* from going out and planting a bunch of caches for your grandkids to find, if that's so important. Only cost ya a plastic container, a pad and a pencil.

This is true. For your grandson, he isn't going to care one bit about logging the find, so you wouldn't even need to have the caches published on this or any website. Just get some containers, fill them with stuff that your grandson would like, place them somewhere nearby and take your grandson along to find them. He'll be thrilled and you can go and pick up the container afterwards to reuse another time.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

Cache owners are not required to supply anything beyond a container, a logbook and good coordinates to find the cache. If those items are in good repair, a CO has done their job well enough. I'm not sure why the onus always falls on the cache owner when swag degrades to broken toys and garbage...what about the people coming along taking the good stuff and leaving junk? Cachers preach about "trade up/trade even" but most caches end up with junk in them. Most don't start out with junk, so how did this happen? Swag is a community effort.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I can understand that it may be frustrating to find caches poor shape.

 

One more thing you can do is to write interesting logs detailing your adventures and letting the cache owners know you appreciate their efforts. For a cache owner that's still "around" this might encourage them to maintain their caches better than if everybody's writing TFTC on their cache.

 

I had a look. Ackkk. TFTC-only logs. I agree that effort goes both ways. A log describing the visit to the cache is far more encouraging. As a CO it's the people who comment specifically about our cache(s) and say how they enjoyed the swag, who motivate me to maintain our caches and regularly replenish the supply.

What they said

[+kunarion]

Nobodies stopping *you* from going out and planting a bunch of caches for your grandkids to find, if that's so important. Only cost ya a plastic container, a pad and a pencil.

The OP is about no interesting stuff inside. So it additionally costs that.

 

Placing a new cache doesn't stop people from removing the things they like and leaving things the OP doesn't, nor from having the container not properly re-hidden. The reason the cache is out in the open and has no nice things is: previous people found it hidden in place and full of nice things.

[+terrkan78]

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

Ooo. Good idea. Hadn't thought of that.

 

When my kids were younger, I'd go out the day before and pre-find some caches and load them up on swag. That way I knew the caches were there (and that I could actually find them without spending a half hour searching) and that they'd be happy with their trading options.

[+Team Microdot]

.. full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches.

 

Tip for increasing your chance of finding caches with swag in better condition - look for newly planted caches, preferably regular or large size. Small is OK but if the owner says "No room for a pencil, bring your own" it's likely a micro listed as a small and won't have room for swag.

Wet unmaintained caches are a burr in my saddle too. Wet often means they used a leaky container (dollar store containers for example). I especially get irked when I see that every other log mentions the crack in the lid, or the broken tab, or the moldy contents yet the cache owner does nothing.

 

When you find a messy cache - wet log, moldy, 1/4 filled with water, write about the condition of the cache in your log. Post a Needs Maintenance if the problem is more then a minor issue (examples of minor - condensation that a finder could easily wipe down, a few stones and broken toys that can be removed by the finder). Post a Needs Archive if there have already been numerous logs about the problem and a prior NM log but the CO is not responding. Needs Archive gets the attention of a reviewer, s/he will post a reviewer note which usually gets the attention of the CO. If the cache is abandoned eventually the reviewer will end up archiving the cache.

 

^This

 

Browsing the OP's logs they are mostly TFTC and those that aren't say nothing about the condition of the cache.

 

I haven't met a cache owner yet who could read minds or remote view their caches from afar.

 

If you think a cache needs attention say so in your log - explaining why you think that. That at least would make more interesting reading than TFTC

[+K13]

.. full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches.

 

Tip for increasing your chance of finding caches with swag in better condition - look for newly planted caches, preferably regular or large size. Small is OK but if the owner says "No room for a pencil, bring your own" it's likely a micro listed as a small and won't have room for swag.

 

Wet unmaintained caches are a burr in my saddle too. Wet often means they used a leaky container (dollar store containers for example). I especially get irked when I see that every other log mentions the crack in the lid, or the broken tab, or the moldy contents yet the cache owner does nothing.

 

When you find a messy cache - wet log, moldy, 1/4 filled with water, write about the condition of the cache in your log. Post a Needs Maintenance if the problem is more then a minor issue (examples of minor - condensation that a finder could easily wipe down, a few stones and broken toys that can be removed by the finder). Post a Needs Archive if there have already been numerous logs about the problem and a prior NM log but the CO is not responding. Needs Archive gets the attention of a reviewer, s/he will post a reviewer note which usually gets the attention of the CO. If the cache is abandoned eventually the reviewer will end up archiving the cache.

 

^This

 

Browsing the OP's logs they are mostly TFTC and those that aren't say nothing about the condition of the cache.

 

I haven't met a cache owner yet who could read minds or remote view their caches from afar.

 

If you think a cache needs attention say so in your log - explaining why you think that. That at least would make more interesting reading than TFTC

 

As a cache owner, reading TFTC is way worse than finding wet logs or moldy McToys. Maybe there is something to that karma stuff in the OP's life. .

[+-CJ-]

Tip when geocaching with small children: carry several trade items in your pack or coat pocket. When the cache is found, insist that an adult must open the container (for safety reasons). If it's low on swag, slip in trade items from your secret stash, which you were holding in your other hand.

 

This sounds not like the best idea for me and my kids. My approach has always been to try to bring their attention to the surrounding area, places of interest, nature, great routes, etc. As a result, my kids are very tolerant to what we find inside containers. On the other hand, they are not as enthusiastic in geocaching as their daddy But - no, I've never did such tricks with secret stash. Take the game as is. Be cool and help to maintain the cache - add new items and replace/dry logbooks when needed.

[+jampoi]

To all those that responded with some helpful ideas, THANK YOU!

When I go geocaching I always tell my grandchildren to leave the site in better condition than you found it and we always trade up on all items taken and we try to clean the dirty cache containers also.

I also have to question whether a lot of geocachers that place containers are following the rules of geocaching.com that requires permission to place the containers on private or public property.

As for comments on logs TFTC obviously they did not read all of them. When I use that term it is because there was nothing else to say other than criticism and if a person takes the time and effort to place a cache I appreciate that and don't want discourage them from continuing. The only times I have actually criticized was when the site was absolutely deplorable and unsuitable.

I am not looking to enrich myself finding riches in cache containers and resent those that said it. When I said JUNK, that is exactly what I find more and more. I also know that some people will throw about anything in a container just to make themselves believe they are actually trading something just to falsely relieve their guilt. Which really amounts to stealing.

[+basscat5]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

 

Nobodies stopping *you* from going out and planting a bunch of caches for your grandkids to find, if that's so important. Only cost ya a plastic container, a pad and a pencil.

This is true. For your grandson, he isn't going to care one bit about logging the find, so you wouldn't even need to have the caches published on this or any website. Just get some containers, fill them with stuff that your grandson would like, place them somewhere nearby and take your grandson along to find them. He'll be thrilled and you can go and pick up the container afterwards to reuse another time.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

Cache owners are not required to supply anything beyond a container, a logbook and good coordinates to find the cache. If those items are in good repair, a CO has done their job well enough. I'm not sure why the onus always falls on the cache owner when swag degrades to broken toys and garbage...what about the people coming along taking the good stuff and leaving junk? Cachers preach about "trade up/trade even" but most caches end up with junk in them. Most don't start out with junk, so how did this happen? Swag is a community effort.

I guess just like anything else in Geocaching everyone has a different way in which they play and percieve the "Game"..(which is Ok..)...and probably why I haven't posted a Cache yet..(plan on doing one soon)...When I post a Cache I want it to be something positive for the finder and since it basically has my name on it will take some pride in the maintenance and would hope it appeals to all ages........I would hope to have "eyes on" a traditional larger cache that I placed at least once a month...

 

(just to point out, we do carry bags of extra toys to place in ravaged Caches...)

 

I clean out Caches regularly that are filled with wet nasty junk and place new toys and logbooks in the container but the onus doesn't fall on the finder to do that either..We are doing it help with the "game".....So who has ultimate responsibility for the Cache?? I would guess the owner....

 

If owners used good quality waterproof containers that would help with most of this....The long term durability of snap and locks is questionable at best...

Edited April 14, 2014 by basscat5

[cezanne]

When I post a Cache I want it to be something positive for the finder and since it basically has my name on it will take some pride in the maintenance and would hope it appeals to all ages........I would hope to have "eyes on" a traditional larger cache that I placed at least once a month...

 

It is absolutely impossible to hide a cache that appeals to all types of geocachers (that not only applies to age groups).

 

I do care about the caches I placed and I have not hidden a single micro cache. Nevertheless I do not stock my geocaches any longer with swag and I prefer if they stay swagless.

I prefer caches that involve longer hikes that are not kid friendly anyway. I prefer if someone hides a cache at a remote scenic location he/she will not visit regularly to someone hiding

a cache at 15 minutes distance from his home that essentially is a drive in. I care about the locations and the way to the cache and not about the container and its contents.

 

 

Cezanne

[+T.D.M.22]

To all those that responded with some helpful ideas, THANK YOU!

When I go geocaching I always tell my grandchildren to leave the site in better condition than you found it and we always trade up on all items taken and we try to clean the dirty cache containers also.

I also have to question whether a lot of geocachers that place containers are following the rules of geocaching.com that requires permission to place the containers on private or public property.

As for comments on logs TFTC obviously they did not read all of them. When I use that term it is because there was nothing else to sayother than criticism and if a person takes the time and effort to place a cache I appreciate that and don't want discourage them from continuing. The only times I have actually criticized was when the site was absolutely deplorable and unsuitable.

I am not looking to enrich myself finding riches in cache containers and resent those that said it. When I said JUNK, that is exactly what I find more and more. I also know that some people will throw about anything in a container just to make themselves believe they are actually trading something just to falsely relieve their guilt. Which really amounts to stealing.

 

Wrong. Say something about the cache- cool camo. The logbook was wet. I ry like the container. Say something about the location- great view. I've lived hear for xxx years and never knew about this park. Say something about the experience- it was an easy find with my grandchildren. The kids loved it. I found the cache but a muggle asked what I was doing. I told him I was looking for brick bugs.

 

Remember if you are just doing this for the containers, instead of the whole experience- DNF's flat tires and getting lost, you won't get as much out of it. At events Nobody tells stories that go; " I found the ammo can. It had lots of toys. I signed the log and traded toys and left." The good stories are about getting a flat tire in the middle of nowhere, spending more time convincing to guards at the border that you really are looking for a sandwich container, than you do actually looking for it. They include having helicopters land near you because you aren't supposed to be there, but they didn't put up any signs. They are the ones where you end up with Border Patrol, and local law enforcement out there helping you look for the cache.

 

Those are stories I've heard. What do they have in common? None of them mention SWAG or the wet logs. So just don't worry about it- go out and have fun.

 

I understand the OPs Concern on Cache maintenance.....I don't understand the Angst against his comments when it is well known it is up to the owner to check his Cache's periodically.....

 

Nobody said anything negative about his observation on maintenance- at least one person agreed. The issue was keeping the cache stocked with toys. It's not even required to have any swag in the, let alone restocking it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by T.D.M.22

[+CanadianRockies]

I clean out Caches regularly that are filled with wet nasty junk and place new toys and logbooks in the container but the onus doesn't fall on the finder to do that either..We are doing it help with the "game".....So who has ultimate responsibility for the Cache?? I would guess the owner....

Kudos to you for upgrading the swag when necessary. It certainly isn't your responsibility to do so, but it's generous of you to do so.

 

At the same time, it's certainly not the responsibility of owners to upgrade the swag in their caches...or even to stock it with swag in the first place. It's generous of them to do so, but definitely not required (nor should it be expected).

[+basscat5]

What really irks me is planning a day of geocaching with my grandson, traveling numerous miles to find them and then find them full of useless junk with wet logs. A lot of times the caches are not hidden but lying on top of the ground fully exposed. People are not maintaining their caches and renewing their swag with things little boys and girls get excited about finding. In a word, geocaching is becoming "BORING" and a waste of time.

What I would like to see is for Geocachers to take some pride in this activity if for nothing else but to let the kids have some fun. Make it interesting people before it dies out from lack of interest.

The OP kind of hit on both what I would consider Maintenance and Swag...So that is part of what I am getting at as far as "ultimate responsibility"..(Maintenance)...and may have been part of my confusion...

 

It's all good though and that is why I read this forum to continue to educate myself on geoettiquite so I don't make simple mistakes based on ignorance.....

Edited April 14, 2014 by basscat5

[+edscott]

When I take my grandson caching the trip is more about the trip and the time together. I make it a nature walk with some caches along the way.

[+Team Microdot]

As for comments on logs TFTC obviously they did not read all of them. When I use that term it is because there was nothing else to say other than criticism and if a person takes the time and effort to place a cache I appreciate that and don't want discourage them from continuing. The only times I have actually criticized was when the site was absolutely deplorable and unsuitable.

 

So why complain on here? What did you think that would achieve?

 

Your feedback - positive or negative - should be directed toward the owners of the caches you find.

 

I doubt very much whether those hiding caches which deserve only TFTC worry too much about the fact they only get TFTC logs as, after all - you're thanking them for the cache that they hid - even if you did think it was a pointless pile of junk.

 

I'll admit I didn't read all of your logs - just scanned a few of them. Is there a good example of one where you rewarded a good cache with a good, encouraging log for a cache you really enjoyed?

[+Ambrosia]

When I post a Cache I want it to be something positive for the finder and since it basically has my name on it will take some pride in the maintenance and would hope it appeals to all ages........I would hope to have "eyes on" a traditional larger cache that I placed at least once a month...

 

It is absolutely impossible to hide a cache that appeals to all types of geocachers (that not only applies to age groups).

 

I do care about the caches I placed and I have not hidden a single micro cache. Nevertheless I do not stock my geocaches any longer with swag and I prefer if they stay swagless.

I prefer caches that involve longer hikes that are not kid friendly anyway. I prefer if someone hides a cache at a remote scenic location he/she will not visit regularly to someone hiding

a cache at 15 minutes distance from his home that essentially is a drive in. I care about the locations and the way to the cache and not about the container and its contents.

 

 

Cezanne

Just out of curiosity, what do you view as a longer hike that is not kid friendly? When my kids were 5 and 8 years old, we went on a hike (found one cache) that was 8 miles long.

[+The_Incredibles_]

As for comments on logs TFTC obviously they did not read all of them. When I use that term it is because there was nothing else to say other than criticism and if a person takes the time and effort to place a cache I appreciate that and don't want discourage them from continuing. The only times I have actually criticized was when the site was absolutely deplorable and unsuitable.

stealing.

 

There's plenty you can say. You can say 'had a nice outing with my grandson, explored an area that we hadn't before, saw 2 bald eagles while we were out, wiped out container and added a bit of swag.'. I have found totally crappy caches, but didn't care because I enjoyed my journey to the cache so much. If there's something wrong with the cache, at the end of your log, you can write 'cache could use some TLC'. It's not really offensive if you put it that way.

[cezanne]

Just out of curiosity, what do you view as a longer hike that is not kid friendly? When my kids were 5 and 8 years old, we went on a hike (found one cache) that was 8 miles long.

 

Of course it also depends on the route and the kids. Two typical examples of longer hiking caches that I do not regard as kid friendly are my most recent cache (around 16 km which is around 10 miles) and this cache

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4K7VZ_raabklamm-einmal-klein-einmal-gross (around 22 km which is around 13,67 miles). For the latter one we had a 10 year old kid with us, but it was quite boring for the kid in major parts of the route.

 

Length is only one parameter. It also depends on what can be seen/experienced along the route, whether the trails offer adventures and many other aspects.

 

In any case, I do not own a cache that I would call kid friendly.

 

Cezanne

[+jampoi]

As for comments on logs TFTC obviously they did not read all of them. When I use that term it is because there was nothing else to say other than criticism and if a person takes the time and effort to place a cache I appreciate that and don't want discourage them from continuing. The only times I have actually criticized was when the site was absolutely deplorable and unsuitable.

 

So why complain on here? What did you think that would achieve?

 

Your feedback - positive or negative - should be directed toward the owners of the caches you find.

 

I doubt very much whether those hiding caches which deserve only TFTC worry too much about the fact they only get TFTC logs as, after all - you're thanking them for the cache that they hid - even if you did think it was a pointless pile of junk.

 

I'll admit I didn't read all of your logs - just scanned a few of them. Is there a good example of one where you rewarded a good cache with a good, encouraging log for a cache you really enjoyed?

[+jampoi]

I thought the point of the forums was to spread the word and have discussions is it not? The topic is "WHAT IRKS ME".

As to your other question there were several, two in particular my wife and I really enjoyed because they were unique and highly imaginative and took some planning and work to achieve. I complimented them and even asked if I could duplicate them.

The fact that you looked at the logs and picked out the few to complain about reveals your agenda. So save it for someone who cares WYS.

[4wheelin_fool]

I thought the point of the forums was to spread the word and have discussions is it not? The topic is "WHAT IRKS ME".

As to your other question there were several, two in particular my wife and I really enjoyed because they were unique and highly imaginative and took some planning and work to achieve. I complimented them and even asked if I could duplicate them.

The fact that you looked at the logs and picked out the few to complain about reveals your agenda. So save it for someone who cares WYS.

 

The same things irk me, and probably everyone else. Lets recap the original gripes:

 

• Wet containers
  
• Broken or lousy trade items
  
• Failure to rehide properly, or at all
  

 

After finding many wet containers, you would think that most people would learn not to use the same ones, but they do.

 

Broken stuff is in nearly every cache. Why? It's a mystery, but obviously there are people all over the world carting around broken things to leave as trade items. They are all working in concert, but likely don't know each other. They also never post in the forum, but are everywhere. It seems that many people think that following the rules of trading an object is more important than leaving something useful to anyone. That movie stub, pine cone, or broken pez container is better off somewhere else.

 

Leaving containers poorly rehidden is another constant. It seems that nearly everyone likes to leave it easy for the next finder. That's not the best thing for the CO, who will have to deal with the 13 year olds who found it accidentally and took a dump in it. If its found out in the open, it should be rehidden, not shrugging your shoulders and saying that it isn't your problem.

 

I believe the OP has found the reasons why many people leave the game.

Edited April 15, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+Team Microdot]

I thought the point of the forums was to spread the word and have discussions is it not?

 

How far do you think you'll spread the word here, where most if not every person is painfully aware of the existence of junky caches, given that the people who can do something about those caches - their owners - probably don't visit this forum?

 

As I said earlier - the more obvious place to spread the word is your found logs so that they are read by the CO's in question AND by people who might be thinking of going out to find said caches but who might think again if they know they are junk - or might even take a few supplies along with them to effect a field repair. Then at least your word spreading would have a useful impact of some sort, yes?

 

The topic is "WHAT IRKS ME".

 

Just you?

 

As to your other question there were several, two in particular my wife and I really enjoyed because they were unique and highly imaginative and took some planning and work to achieve. I complimented them and even asked if I could duplicate them.

 

As I said - I didn't read all your logs - just a random sample - just to see if on any of those caches which only deserved a TFTC you took the time to expand in any way - but I didn't see any examples. And as I said earlier - cache owners are not mind readers.

 

I never cease to be amazed when I find a cache in a sorry state that absolutely nobody before me has mentioned any issues with the cache whatsoever. Perhaps if they had, the CO would have addressed the issues before the cache turned to junk.

 

TFTC logs are so common these days that CO's simply assume the logger couldn't be bothered to write anything more - they do not take it as an indicator that the cache needs attention - that's what a Needs Maintenance log is for.

 

If you find a cache in sorry state but do nothing more than post a TFTC and walk away, you're leaving it like that for the next person to find. If more people do that you're going to find more caches in an equally sorry state. Simple facts.

 

The fact that you looked at the logs and picked out the few to complain about reveals your agenda. So save it for someone who cares WYS.

 

Does it really? I'm curious to know what you think that agenda is?

[cezanne]

I never cease to be amazed when I find a cache in a sorry state that absolutely nobody before me has mentioned any issues with the cache whatsoever. Perhaps if they had, the CO would have addressed the issues before the cache turned to junk.

 

I report problems with the container or the log book, but I never write about whether swag is in the cache and whether or not someone would regard it as junk.

Swag is a component I tend to ignore both in my roles as cache owner and as a cache finder.

 

Swagless caches or caches that only contain broken toys are not in a sorry state from my point of view - there is nothing to report and nothing the cache owner ought to take care of.

 

Cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

I never cease to be amazed when I find a cache in a sorry state that absolutely nobody before me has mentioned any issues with the cache whatsoever. Perhaps if they had, the CO would have addressed the issues before the cache turned to junk.

 

I report problems with the container or the log book, but I never write about whether swag is in the cache and whether or not someone would regard it as junk.

Swag is a component I tend to ignore both in my roles as cache owner and as a cache finder.

 

Swagless caches or caches that only contain broken toys are not in a sorry state from my point of view - there is nothing to report and nothing the cache owner ought to take care of.

 

Cezanne

 

Although in the case of the cache being full of broken toys - the CO might want to be aware of it and might want to do something about it as it causes displeasure for some finders - so I might mention it in my log for those reasons.

[cezanne]

Although in the case of the cache being full of broken toys - the CO might want to be aware of it and might want to do something about it as it causes displeasure for some finders - so I might mention it in my log for those reasons.

 

Noone keeps you or someone else from reporting about the swag. I just meant that I'm not commenting on the swag in my logs and I certainly will not schedule a visit to one of my caches to remove stuff I did not put into the caches. Swag is no compulsory component of caches.

 

As the displeasure is regarded: The mere existence of swag in a container can cause displeasure (to me for example). There is no solution to avoid displeasure for everyone.

 

Broken and junky items not only arise by bad trading habits. They often arise if items are dropped several times (which happens often when taking the log book or other stuff out of the containers), are taken out by many cachers with dirty fingers etc. In my personal view cache containers out in the forest are hardly the best places to store nice items that ought to stay nice after having spent several months or years in a cache.

I own several caches that are older than 10 years and in the beginning I put small items in my caches which I later learnt was a mistake. Nowadays I start with swagless caches right from the beginning. In my experience this also helps to keep the contents of the containers clean if the container is dirty. The less things are inside a container, the less things can be dropped and are touched numerous times.

 

 

Cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

[i just meant that I'm not commenting on the swag in my logs and I certainly will not schedule a visit to one of my caches to remove stuff I did not put into the caches. Swag is no compulsory component of caches.

 

It is though your responsibility to maintain the caches.

[cezanne]

[i just meant that I'm not commenting on the swag in my logs and I certainly will not schedule a visit to one of my caches to remove stuff I did not put into the caches. Swag is no compulsory component of caches.

 

It is though your responsibility to maintain the caches.

 

As I said, I take care when there is an issue with the stages, the container, the log book etc - all what is essential and important for a cache in my eyes.

If people happen to put things in my cache containers I never asked for, it is not my business. The same holds if someone drops off a trackable

that then stays there for months. If I happen to be in the area, fine. If not, it's ok as well for me.

 

Personally I would opt for swag free caches at least in my corner of the world. There are only few cases where swag in caches really works, e.g. when all items are separately sealed which is hardly ever

the case.

 

Longer hiking caches can only work if one does not expect the hider to visit the cache to clear out trading items that do not cause any harm to the cache, but just might cause displeasure to those who came for the trading items (not the target audience of such caches anyway). It is in my personal interest that more caches are hidden that are at a distance to the hider which makes it infeasible to visit a cache once per month.

 

Cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

If people happen to put things in my cache containers I never asked for, it is not my business.

 

I'm afraid it is your business - it's your cache so it's your responsibility to maintain it.

 

It is in my personal interest that more caches are hidden that are at a distance to the hider which makes it infeasible to visit a cache once per month.

 

Sorry - don't understand what you're saying here.

[cezanne]

If people happen to put things in my cache containers I never asked for, it is not my business.

 

I'm afraid it is your business - it's your cache so it's your responsibility to maintain it.

 

To maintain it, yes. But swag that does not cause damage to the container and the log book is not effecting the cache itself.

 

Those who do not like to encounter broken toys are typically the same who do not like to encounter swag free caches. So it does not make a big

difference anyway. They will have to accept that swag is not a compulsory component of caches.

 

While I'm fully aware that some children like to encounter nice swag, families with kids do not change their cache hiding habits to match my caching preferences and neither will I do match theirs.

 

 

 

It is in my personal interest that more caches are hidden that are at a distance to the hider which makes it infeasible to visit a cache once per month.

 

Sorry - don't understand what you're saying here.

 

The message is quite simple: If one believes that taking care of the swag in a container is part of the cache owner's job, then most cachers would be able to

hide and maintain only caches that are relatively close to their home or working place and do not require long walks to reach the container.

 

I know no one who would want to go for an hour drive (one way) and a hike of four hours just to remove two McDonalds toys that are not any more complete. That's ridiculous and not in the

interest of those for whom such caches are hidden.

 

 

Cezanne

Edited April 15, 2014 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

To maintain it, yes. But swag that does not cause damage to the container and the log book is not effecting the cache itself.

Cezanne

 

So I visit your cache and I leave a cigarette lighter in it.

 

By itself it doesn't cause damage to the container or the log.

 

Your business, or not?

[+basscat5]

So if a Cache owner places a cache with no swag when does the trading start???.I am speaking on right sized traditionals onviously..If an owner wants his cache to be swagless he could put that in the description...

Part of the fun of placing a cache to me seems to be puting something cool in the Cache for the FTF..

Edited April 15, 2014 by basscat5

[cezanne]

So if a Cache owner places a cache with no swag when does the trading start???.

 

Quite simple: When cachers show up who think that they do something good to the cache or future finders when they leave swag.

 

If an owner wants his cache to be swagless he could put that in the description...

 

That does not help as most modern cachers do not read the description.

 

Part of the fun of placing a cache to me seems to be puting something cool in the Cache for the FTF..

 

Definitely not for me. First, I do not care about first to finds at all and second, for me caching is about hiking,

learning to know new places or interesting facts and not about swag. I can buy whatever I want in a shops and get there

exactly what I want.

 

Cezanne

[+briansnat]

If geocaching is becoming "boring" and "a waste of time" simply because the cache doesn't have nice swag inside, you just may be geocaching for the wrong reasons and searching for the wrong geocaches.

Edited April 15, 2014 by briansnat

[+L0ne.R]

The message is quite simple: If one believes that taking care of the swag in a container is part of the cache owner's job, then most cachers would be able to

hide and maintain only caches that are relatively close to their home or working place and do not require long walks to reach the container.

 

Most but some who regularly enjoy expeditions would still hide and maintain them. I believe Briansnat is an example of this. He maintains his caches but doesn't have to do much (if any) for caches on long hikes because they are quality caches that will last years. He also notes that those caches' swag supply degrades far less then caches placed closer to civilization.

 

 

[+briansnat]

The message is quite simple: If one believes that taking care of the swag in a container is part of the cache owner's job, then most cachers would be able to

hide and maintain only caches that are relatively close to their home or working place and do not require long walks to reach the container.

 

Most but some who regularly enjoy expeditions would still hide and maintain them. I believe Briansnat is an example of this. He maintains his caches but doesn't have to do much (if any) for caches on long hikes because they are quality caches that will last years. He also notes that those caches' swag supply degrades far less then caches placed closer to civilization.

 

I'm not the best example because I have a few out there with issues that need I to tend to and plan to soon.

 

But generally speaking caches in quality containers, that are longer hikes tend require little maintenance. It's also true that the swag quality tends to stay higher in caches that require longer hikes. I'm not quite sure why. It's isn't necessarily number of finds because I have caches that have been out 10+ plus years and have over 100 finds that were still nicely stocked when I revisited them. And ones nearer to a road are reduced to junk with half the number of finds. I'm starting to think it's families with kids and parents who are afraid to tell their child "No, you can't take that new watercolor set and leave your toy action figure with the missing legs", or the ones who let the kid take the new LED flashlight and leave a rock found next to the cache, two broken McToys, a marble, a Bazooka gum comic and a paper clip and call it even.

Edited April 15, 2014 by briansnat

[+L0ne.R]

So if a Cache owner places a cache with no swag when does the trading start???.

 

Quite simple: When cachers show up who think that they do something good to the cache or future finders when they leave swag.

 

If an owner wants his cache to be swagless he could put that in the description...

 

That does not help as most modern cachers do not read the description.

 

Part of the fun of placing a cache to me seems to be putting something cool in the Cache for the FTF..

 

Definitely not for me. First, I do not care about first to finds at all and second, for me caching is about hiking,

learning to know new places or interesting facts and not about swag. I can buy whatever I want in a shops and get there

exactly what I want.

 

Cezanne

 

Caching appeals to a wide variety of people. Geocaching began with swag, swag was a big part of what defined geocaching. If it had originally been only summit-type register logs, I doubt it would have had the mass appeal. It might have been interesting to people who were already outdoor types and liked the idea of registering their expeditions by signing a log. It likely wouldn't have appealed to the couch potato or children who would rather play nintendo. How many people want to climb a mountain because there's a summit register at the top? It definitely would not have appealed to me as a lone female, because I found wandering through the woods rather stressful (I eventually built up my confidence via geocaching).

 

It was the "treasure" hunt aspect that made the activity charming, and appealing. I don't even do that much trading - but I love pawing through a well-maintained cache with swag. To remove that aspect is to remove one part of the equation from geocaching.

[cezanne]

The message is quite simple: If one believes that taking care of the swag in a container is part of the cache owner's job, then most cachers would be able to

hide and maintain only caches that are relatively close to their home or working place and do not require long walks to reach the container.

 

Most but some who regularly enjoy expeditions would still hide and maintain them. I believe Briansnat is an example of this. He maintains his caches but doesn't have to do much (if any) for caches on long hikes because they are quality caches that will last years. He also notes that those caches' swag supply degrades far less then caches placed closer to civilization.

 

I'm familiar with his posts, but I do think that this is also depends on the area and in particular on how many people trade.

 

The container can be the best in the world, but if it is opened when it is raining (which is not uncommon in my area) or when the items are not sealed and are handled with dirty fingers, this will not be effectless.

I have observed the life of some items in cache containers over years. Things that have been very nice once degrade over time regardless of the container.

When caching with other people I learnt also that it does not happen only to clumsy me to drop swag items when logging and having to search the parts on the ground and put them back into the container. That is something that happens regularly and certainly does not contribute to the condition of swag.

 

The more valuable something is, the more unlikely it is that it will ever get taken out of a cache that requires a longer hike. Almost no one of the cachers who goes for longer hikes here is interested into trading and almost no none brings along swag. There a few families with children who cache, but typically they do not visit such caches with children who are at an age where they are interested into little trinkets.

 

I can easily believe that downtrading is a bigger issue for caches that are drive ins or require only a short walk, but as I said downtrading is not the main cause for caches with little or no swag or unattractive swag in unattractive condition in my area.

 

I consider maintenance visits for hiking caches for nothing else than clearing out a few unattractive, but harmles swag items as waste of time. If a maintenance visit is in order anyway, this changes the situation of course.

 

Cezanne