Multiple Identities

[+JPreto]

Greetings!

 

Recently I continued a "cleaning" process in Brazil of posting NEEDS ARCHIVE notes in caches that have NEEDS MAINTENANCE logs for over 6 months.

 

In one of those caches something funny happened. This specific cache was first DNFed in April 2013 and in September 2013, the CO answered to me personally saying that the maintenance was going to be done quickly and so he did. Even tho the CO is physically 8000km away and for 7 months he couldn´t make the maintenance, suddenly, after my NEEDS ARCHIVE log he not only enables the cache but immediately a FOUND IT is logged by another user.

 

But it´s not over yet, I post a note in that cache saying how strange that is since the user who FOUND IT, 6 days ago was 8000km away and he didn´t log any other cache around this one (2 less than 500m away). Immediately after this note the same user logged those 2 nearby caches, another 2 disabled caches and a cache from CO, almost 1000km away from each other.

 

All of this stinks like hell and just shows how people can be... the CO has over 14.000 caches and logs his own caches.

 

Any advice on how to deal with situations like this where the same user, to protect a cache form being archived, uses a different identity to mark a FOUND IT right after a supposed maintenance is done, which I really doubt it was actually made?

 

Thanks!!!

Edited April 14, 2014 by JPreto

[+K13]

Greetings!

 

Recently I continued a "cleaning" process in Brazil of posting NEEDS ARCHIVE notes in caches that have NEEDS MAINTENANCE logs for over 6 months.

 

In one of those caches something funny happened. This specific cache was first DNFed in April 2013 and in September 2013, the CO answered to me personally saying that the maintenance was going to be done quickly and so he did. Even tho the CO is physically 8000km away and for 7 months he couldn´t make the maintenance, suddenly, after my NEEDS ARCHIVE log he not only enables the cache but immediately a FOUND IT is logged by another user.

 

But it´s not over yet, I post a note in that cache saying how strange that is since the user who FOUND IT, 6 days ago was 8000km away and he didn´t log any other cache around this one (2 less than 500m away). Immediately after this note the same user logged those 2 nearby caches, another 2 disabled caches and a cache from CO, almost 1000km away from each other.

 

All of this stinks like hell and just shows how people can be... the CO has over 14.000 caches and logs his own caches.

 

Any advice on how to deal with situations like this where the same user, to protect a cache form being archived, uses a different identity to mark a FOUND IT right after a supposed maintenance is done, which I really doubt it was actually made?

 

Thanks!!!

 

Hit the IGNORE button, forget about it, and let the Reviewer or someone else be the cache cop.

[+MtnMutt-ProDuckShins]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

[+the4dirtydogs]

Why don't you just log the cache also and move on.

Go fix the cache and log a find on it and move on.

[+fizzymagic]

Any advice on how to deal with situations like this where the same user, to protect a cache form being archived, uses a different identity to mark a FOUND IT right after a supposed maintenance is done, which I really doubt it was actually made?

 

Yes.

 

Mind your own business. Quit being a cache cop.

[+T.D.M.22]

Is it your cache? Nope. Then it's not your responsibility.

[+JPreto]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

 

No because the cache is 1000km away from me... But I asked a local player to do it, since one of his caches was also logged by this cacher... I´ll wait and see...

 

Mind your own business. Quit being a cache cop.

 

Funny, cache cop... Very true!!!! I like this game and when others try to ruin it, it makes me sad and can´t help it. How many times did you went to caches that weren´t there and the owner knew it but didn´t do anything?

 

In Brazil, when I started less than a year ago, 1/3 of all the caches I visited were DNFs... Maybe you would be doing the same thing if that happened to you... Or maybe you would just mind your own business also...

Edited April 14, 2014 by JPreto

[+Roman!]

Create a power trail around the cache and you won't have any more maintenance issues.

[+NeverSummer]

Create a power trail around the cache and you won't have any more maintenance issues.

And he's baaaaaaaack!

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

 

No because the cache is 1000km away from me... But I asked a local player to do it, since one of his caches was also logged by this cacher... I´ll wait and see...

 

Mind your own business. Quit being a cache cop.

 

Funny, cache cop... Very true!!!! I like this game and when others try to ruin it, it makes me sad and can´t help it. How many times did you went to caches that weren´t there and the owner knew it but didn´t do anything?

 

In Brazil, when I started less than a year ago, 1/3 of all the caches I visited were DNFs... Maybe you would be doing the same thing if that happened to you... Or maybe you would just mind your own business also...

JP, I was in your part of the world a couple of months back and took care of one for you. Just doing my part.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

 

No because the cache is 1000km away from me... But I asked a local player to do it, since one of his caches was also logged by this cacher... I´ll wait and see...

 

Mind your own business. Quit being a cache cop.

 

Funny, cache cop... Very true!!!! I like this game and when others try to ruin it, it makes me sad and can´t help it. How many times did you went to caches that weren´t there and the owner knew it but didn´t do anything?

 

In Brazil, when I started less than a year ago, 1/3 of all the caches I visited were DNFs... Maybe you would be doing the same thing if that happened to you... Or maybe you would just mind your own business also...

 

Ask a question. Get an answer that you don't like. Get insulting. Nope. Not the way the forum works.

If you have not visited the cache, you do not know if it needs to be archived. That's what's called a Cache Cop.

[+TriciaG]

I post a note in that cache saying how strange that is since the user who FOUND IT, 6 days ago was 8000km away and he didn´t log any other cache around this one (2 less than 500m away). Immediately after this note the same user logged those 2 nearby caches, another 2 disabled caches and a cache from CO, almost 1000km away from each other.

I wouldn't have written this note. Better to let the reviewer get involved than rattle the cage of the CO.

[+NJSquirrel]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

 

No because the cache is 1000km away from me... But I asked a local player to do it, since one of his caches was also logged by this cacher... I´ll wait and see...

 

 

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

[+K13]

I post a note in that cache saying how strange that is since the user who FOUND IT, 6 days ago was 8000km away and he didn´t log any other cache around this one (2 less than 500m away). Immediately after this note the same user logged those 2 nearby caches, another 2 disabled caches and a cache from CO, almost 1000km away from each other.

 

I sincerely hope that CO does not take your actions as harassment and report YOU for abusive behavior. That could be a violation of the site TOU, getting you banned from using the site. Be very careful when you make contact with other cachers like that. We would hate to lose a cacher who is doing so much to improve caching in his area.

[+SwineFlew]

This is all I gotta say about this case.

 

[RuideAlmeida]

Any advice on how to deal with situations like this...

 

As you obviously noticed, the day before your log, I logged around 40 NAs on brazilian caches, mainly in long Disabled caches, but also on some with NM logs, from owners that remain inactive for a long period of time (more than a year, in most of the cases), and from foreigner owners, also.

 

On few situations, the absent owners did Archived the caches on their own.

The rest, the reviewer agreed on lot more than half, and Archived those caches... while some have been Disabled, for the time being.

 

The one that you refer, was already Disabled (and on surveillance)... and by now, I guess that would be also Archived, if it was not your NA log.

 

There are good and bad ways to proceed... there are people that play fair, and other that cheat, believing they are playing fair... and we have to learn to deal with them all.

 

Sometimes, it's better to be wiser than faster, maybe you thought that I had forgot this cache, but I didn't. I was just trying to deal with it, the best possible way.

Edited April 15, 2014 by ruidealmeida

[+Manville Possum]

Did you actually go check the Cache & Log or you just assuming wrong doing without actually hard evidences?

 

No because the cache is 1000km away from me... But I asked a local player to do it, since one of his caches was also logged by this cacher... I´ll wait and see...

 

 

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

Exactly. I find this to be silly as the CO that is 8000km away.

[+K13]

Clearly, the proper and thorough job being done by the Reviewers in this area are not up to the time expectations of the OP. It appears that he has taken it upon himself to do the job of the reviewers by "continued a "cleaning" process in Brazil of posting NEEDS ARCHIVE notes in caches that have NEEDS MAINTENANCE logs for over 6 months." Can I be the first to nominate him for Cache Cop of the Year - 2014?

[+JPreto]

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

 

The one that you refer, was already Disabled (and on surveillance)... and by now, I guess that would be also Archived, if it was not your NA log.

 

There are good and bad ways to proceed... there are people that play fair, and other that cheat, believing they are playing fair... and we have to learn to deal with them all.

 

Sometimes, it's better to be wiser than faster, maybe you thought that I had forgot this cache, but I didn't. I was just trying to deal with it, the best possible way.

This comment, from our Brazilian Forum Moderator sums it all...

 

The fact is that this specific CO does this everytime in his geocaching country, now he starts to make in other people´s geocaching countries. If someone should be banned (as someone replied earlier) shouldn´t be me, and Groundspeak can for sure see that the IP address from both Identities should be the same (if the CO doesn´t use proxy or VPN) and the log registry should be sequential. More over, the "modus operandi" is well know by most geocachers where he usually plays.

 

Before acting like this I asked for advice in geocachers I know, and all said the same:

"Keep it quite, keep it down or you will get yourself in trouble"

 

This is not the way I am, and the ones who know me understand that I don´t like dishonest people and it really bothers me to see people acting like this over a game, imagine what they do with important stuff. For me all matters are of great importance, that´s the way I am. I don´t take things lightly, never did...

 

FINAL REMARK:

"Last year I joined a club of anti socials... we haven´t meet yet!"

[+K13]

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

How many of the DNF were you? Any NM by you? Do you just go looking for caches to post NA?

 

You ask your geocaching friends what to do, then do the opposite of what they advise?

 

Maybe all the issues stem from this...

This is not the way I am, and the ones who know me understand that I don´t like dishonest people and it really bothers me to see people acting like this over a game, imagine what they do with important stuff. For me all matters are of great importance, that´s the way I am. I don´t take things lightly, never did...

[+JPreto]

How many of the DNF were you? Any NM by you? Do you just go looking for caches to post NA?

 

My DNF count is now 276, my NM count is now 100, my NA count is now 16 and my FOUND IT count is now 517.

 

Out of my 100 NM only 13 were actually there, all other 87 were gone, are DISABLED or ARCHIVED.

 

Just think that in all Brazil with an area of 8.515.767 km² (USA is 9.826.675 km²) there are only around 1500 caches. I started geocaching in July 2013 and basically visited half of the countries´ caches, with photos of either the cache or the place of the cache was supposed to be.

 

It is not easy to geocache here, many abandon the caches and the distances are big, very big. If I do 250km circle around where I live there are less than 100 caches that I haven´t been. I´m glad I have a motorbike and I love to ride it!!!!

Edited April 15, 2014 by JPreto

[+tozainamboku]

Just think that in all Brazil with an area of 8.515.767 km² (USA is 9.826.675 km²) there are only around 1500 caches. I started geocaching in July 2013 and basically visited half of the countries´ caches, with photos of either the cache or the place of the cache was supposed to be.

I think is part of the problem, unlike Portugal or the United States, there are not many cache to find (and the distance you need travel to find caches is great). It is understandable that you would like cache owners to maintain their caches so when you do travel you have something to find. It also seems, from the previous threads you've started, that some Brazilians have tackled this problem a different way - either leaving a throwdown when the don't find cache, or posting a photo to prove they traveled from Sao Paulo to the Amazon to find cache.

 

You are not going to change Brazilian attitudes overnight, nor are you going to change them by yourself. As the saying goes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I would suggest instead of doing things that antagonize people you get friendly with some of them. Explain to people why it would be better to maintain their caches rather than letting them fester with nothing to find until someone leaves a throwdown. It also sounds like because there are so few geocachers in such a large country, that many cache owners have placed vacation caches that they are not able to maintain as quickly as you would like. Perhaps cooperating with other caches and, with their permission, doing some of the maintenance for them is necessary in a country like Brazil.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

 

Sure. But not by you. You shouldn't post a NM or NA on a cache you haven't visited personally.

[4wheelin_fool]

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

 

Sure. But not by you. You shouldn't post a NM or NA on a cache you haven't visited personally.

 

Its kind of funny how people are willing to tolerate obviously missing caches, and ones needing maintenance for many months, but dont want to tolerate someone who wants to do something about it. After reading logs about containers with no lids and holes, mouldy logs, and sock accounts posting fake finds on vacation caches, the cacher is tasked to visit the site personally. Sounds a lot like enabling crappy caches. if someone wants to visit an area, but sees multitudes of red wrenches and DNFs which have not been addressed, then they are supposed to ignore it? Reviewers are not robots. They can certainly distinguish the unwarranted NAs from the needed ones. I don't think that new cachers in Brazil are going to get excited about the game by finding garbage.

 

Many things have changed over the years, but one thing that hasn't is that most geocachers will lose interest and leave. The amount of active users is very small when compared to the total.

Edited April 15, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+The_Incredibles_]

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

 

Sure. But not by you. You shouldn't post a NM or NA on a cache you haven't visited personally.

 

Its kind of funny how people are willing to tolerate obviously missing caches, and ones needing maintenance for many months, but dont want to tolerate someone who wants to do something about it.

 

I know, right. How DARE the OP take initiative!

 

If the local reviewers have a problem with the OP posting Needs Archive requests, they will let him/her know.

 

I say, cache cop on!

[+Eran-]

Just think that in all Brazil with an area of 8.515.767 km² (USA is 9.826.675 km²) there are only around 1500 caches. I started geocaching in July 2013 and basically visited half of the countries´ caches, with photos of either the cache or the place of the cache was supposed to be.

I think is part of the problem, unlike Portugal or the United States, there are not many cache to find (and the distance you need travel to find caches is great). It is understandable that you would like cache owners to maintain their caches so when you do travel you have something to find. It also seems, from the previous threads you've started, that some Brazilians have tackled this problem a different way - either leaving a throwdown when the don't find cache, or posting a photo to prove they traveled from Sao Paulo to the Amazon to find cache.

 

You are not going to change Brazilian attitudes overnight, nor are you going to change them by yourself. As the saying goes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I would suggest instead of doing things that antagonize people you get friendly with some of them. Explain to people why it would be better to maintain their caches rather than letting them fester with nothing to find until someone leaves a throwdown. It also sounds like because there are so few geocachers in such a large country, that many cache owners have placed vacation caches that they are not able to maintain as quickly as you would like. Perhaps cooperating with other caches and, with their permission, doing some of the maintenance for them is necessary in a country like Brazil.

 

So you're assuming that all brazilians have this kind of attitude because of a foreign that is here less that a year? The people that usually act in this way here in Brazil are often foreigners - they leave throwdowns, they post photos, they make armchair geocaching! There are many brazilian cachers that work together, one helping the others!

 

I recently logged a cache of a foreign owner here at Manaus, and noticed that there was an armchair log comparing to the phisical logbook. I adviced a moderator, that contacted the owner, and the log was deleted. As I do, other brazilian cachers do too. They'll not be yawning, moaning or crying like babies, but will do their best. Geocaching is a hobby for us, to have fun, not a full time job!

 

To the cache cops on duty, a hint: make an application at geocaching.com!

[4wheelin_fool]

You posted a NA to a cache that is 1000km away from you without any hard evidence to its condition? What is wrong with you?!?

As I said in the first post, the cache had a NEED MAINTENANCE for over 7 months! And a TEMPORARY DISABLE for 3 months. The caches was actually last found in April 2013 and DNFs since then... Is it enough to post a NEEDS ARCHIVE?

 

Sure. But not by you. You shouldn't post a NM or NA on a cache you haven't visited personally.

 

Yes he should.

 

Lets see, the cache has been obviously missing for a full year. What exactly is the point of the listing? Should someone waste their time to personally visit the site other than the cache owner?

 

NO.

Edited April 15, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[4wheelin_fool]

 

Its kind of funny how people are willing to tolerate obviously missing caches, and ones needing maintenance for many months, but dont want to tolerate someone who wants to do something about it.

 

I know, right. How DARE the OP take initiative!

 

If the local reviewers have a problem with the OP posting Needs Archive requests, they will let him/her know.

 

I say, cache cop on!

 

I think the attitudes about "cache cop" mentality is a bit extreme when there are obvious problems not being addressed.

 

Lets see, many people lose interest in the sport and abandon their hides. The reason why they lost interest is often directly related to finding multiple caches by others who have lost interest and abandoned their hides...

[+JPreto]

So you're assuming that all brazilians have this kind of attitude because of a foreign that is here less that a year? The people that usually act in this way here in Brazil are often foreigners - they leave throwdowns, they post photos, they make armchair geocaching! There are many brazilian cachers that work together, one helping the others!

 

You are absolutely right, most of these "photologs" and "throwdowns" are made by foreign visitors because here, in Brazil, there are a lot of caches that are abandoned by CO that have left the game or don´t maintain their own caches. This attitude opens the door for the visitors to do all this. If you want examples I can give many but not here, I can send them personally to you because almost every time I sent these type of cases to reviewers the answer was: "Can´t do nothing about it, the CO is responsible for his own cache and logs" but if the CO is long gone and the cache is abandoned?

 

I recently logged a cache of a foreign owner here at Manaus, and noticed that there was an armchair log comparing to the phisical logbook. I adviced a moderator, that contacted the owner, and the log was deleted. As I do, other brazilian cachers do too. They'll not be yawning, moaning or crying like babies, but will do their best. Geocaching is a hobby for us, to have fun, not a full time job!

 

That is great and it´s a shame that more brazilian geocachers don´t act the same way. Just use this tool from Project-GC called FIND BAD LOGS and you´ll see how many of the geocachers in Brazil take care about fake ou multiple logs?

Edited April 15, 2014 by JPreto

[+JPreto]

I think the attitudes about "cache cop" mentality is a bit extreme when there are obvious problems not being addressed.

 

What problems are not being addressed, in your opinion?

[4wheelin_fool]

I think the attitudes about "cache cop" mentality is a bit extreme when there are obvious problems not being addressed.

 

What problems are not being addressed, in your opinion?

 

What do you think? It's your thread.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

So you're assuming that all brazilians have this kind of attitude because of a foreign that is here less that a year? The people that usually act in this way here in Brazil are often foreigners - they leave throwdowns, they post photos, they make armchair geocaching! There are many brazilian cachers that work together, one helping the others!

 

You are absolutely right, most of these "photologs" and "throwdowns" are made by foreign visitors because here, in Brazil, there are a lot of caches that are abandoned by CO that have left the game or don´t maintain their own caches. This attitude opens the door for the visitors to do all this. If you want examples I can give many but not here, I can send them personally to you because almost every time I sent these type of cases to reviewers the answer was: "Can´t do nothing about it, the CO is responsible for his own cache and logs" but if the CO is long gone and the cache is abandoned?

 

 

Well, this latest post certainly changes the way I feel about what you are doing. First off, that kind of response from the reviewer is kind of bizarre. As long as there is a cache, even a throw-down, then the reviewer won't step in and take care of a problem cache? I don't get that.

 

Second is the issue with throwdowns but I have no answers on how to make people stop doing that.

 

So, in cases like this where you have people placing throwdowns, the local community won't do anything about it, the reviewer doesn't think it's an issue and the owner is long gone...then yes, having someone step up to the plate is needed and welcome. Good on you to be the one willing to do that.

 

I apologize for not seeing it from that angle before but I was thinking of it in the same sort of way that if someone from Virginia were to start posting notes on caches here in Wisconsin, trying to get them archived. I just couldn't fathom why anyone would do that for caches so far away. But, I can see our situations are different.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

.

 

Edited April 16, 2014 by Crow-T-Robot

[RuideAlmeida]

... the local community won't do anything about it...

 

Surely you need to re read this thread from the beginning

[+JPreto]

... the local community won't do anything about it...

 

Surely you need to re read this thread from the beginning

 

There a are a few, a minority does it... So it´s not all local community!

 

By the way, this is a good example that shows many of the problems, and it is one of the most recent ones:

 

http://coord.info/GC1ZT97

 

The cache is good, no doubt about it. It´s a multi-stage with riddles inside one of the most beautiful parks in Campinas (the 3rd biggest City in the São Paulo State, just after São Paulo City and Guarulhos) called Taquaral Park.

 

But look at the logs, with my personal thoughts:

 

10-Nov-2010 First complaint about the actual condition of the cache by the most important geocacher in the Campinas Region, saying it need urgent maintenance but no needs maintenance log is placed. Look at the photos, they really show how the cache needed some care from the CO.

 

23-Jul-2011 Two new geocachers (less than 10 finds) visit the cache and say: "Nothing wrong with it"... strange after the previous log but nevermind...

 

19-Ago 2011 First DNF because of a bird that has a nest near and is aggressive, no information about the actual cache.

 

20-Jul 2013 DNF by a new geocacher, valid DNF but since it´s a new geocacher could just have looked by.

 

8-Mar 2014 I tried to find it but and to run out, after making the first two stages, that are ok.

 

5-APR-2014 Typical throwdown by a foreign player.

 

The CO is missing since 9 March 2010 and out of his 6 placed caches, 3 are already archived.

 

What to do in situations like this? The answer I got from reviewers is that in cases like this "There is nothing we can do! The cache is active, in good health and only the CO can do anything about it."

 

With this I´m not saying the reviewers do a bad job, because they really do a great job under the conditions (they are Portuguese, reviewing Brazilian caches and not knowing the local players) and maybe those are the guidelines they have to follow as reviewers.

 

Again, geocaching here in Brazil is still a baby I really feel that it is best to keep experienced Portuguese reviewers rather than inexperienced Brazilian ones even because Portugal is a thriving geocaching country with around 26.500 active caches in 91.985 km² comparing to Brazil that has 1.600 active caches in 8.515.767 km².

 

With all this what I am saying is, that by the fact the reviewers are almost 8.000km away from the main geocaching area (São Paulo State with around 900 caches, 56% of all Brazilian caches) just makes the role of local geocachers more important because they see how it is, they are on the field and they can help reviewers do they job. This is just what I am trying to do and this is my way of thinking under the conditions.

 

Again, this thread as derived completely from the course which was, how to deal with people that have MULTIPLE IDENTITIES to "save" their own caches they can´t maintain.

Edited April 16, 2014 by JPreto