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Avoiding a potential turf war


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Asking a CO, "would you please NOT hide any caches in a particular area?" is super tacky, right? But how about asking a reviewer if he or she would mind not allowing a particular CO to saturate a particular area?

 

Until now, I haven't wanted to place any caches because my health has been super tricky and I don't want to be a crappy or unreliable CO. But finally, finally my health seems stable enough that I think I can reasonably maintain a few. Yay! I want to hide a decent cache, close to a hiking trail, big enough for swag, not too close to Muggles, etc. Finding the appropriate location has been tricky because, like in many places, there aren't any nearby trails that don't have at least a few caches already. But after going over the map a few times, I did identify an area that looked perfect - a handful of caches owned by multiple people and fairly spread out. I've found the caches in that area, but I made plans to scope it out for hiding one or two.

 

Here comes the potentially sticky issue: there is a high numbers geocacher (both in finding and in hiding) in my region who has plastered an area about 15-20 miles from my house with hundreds of caches in the last year or two. He has openly stated his "anywhere and everywhere" goal and has placed at least 2 semi PTs there as well. A high percentage of his caches are the bare 528 feet apart. Now, I'm not into the numbers personally, but I do acknowledge that some folks are. Once about a month ago, and again just today, I've noticed that he's found a few caches in the same area I was thinking about. My concern - which I know could be completely unfounded - is that his is scoping out the area to plaster it with new caches. It may seem silly to others, but I do not want to place a cache in an area that might be soon overrun with a whole bunch of mediocre, single-owner caches. Call me crazy, but after waiting this long to hide a cache, I don't want it to get lost in the crowd. Of course, I don't know that he's planning anything, so I admit that I could be worrying about nothing.

 

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? I would not want to ask him directly, because it might offend him and he may not care anyway. Besides, there's a "first come, first served" attitude when it comes to new caches, right? But what about asking our reviewer? Could a reviewer help prevent certain areas from becoming overrun with partial PTs?

 

If you think I'm being paranoid or ridiculous, please say so gently.

 

(edited: clarity)

Edited by GeoLTL
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First come, first served...

 

I don't believe you'd find any Reviewer who'd want to get caught up in a favoritism hassle.

The local cachers would have a field day with emails to HQ.

 

"Say so gently", huh?

I feel it's pretty nervy of you to consider backstabbing attempting to bypass others (while getting an impartial volunteer Reviewer involved no less...) like that.

 

You want a cache in a certain spot? Place it.

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Besides, there's a "first come, first served" attitude when it comes to new caches, right?

 

Correct.

 

But what about asking our reviewer?

 

That would be inappropriate for a Reviewer to suggest that someone can't hide a cache in a particular area. If a cache owner is having trouble maintaining a large number of caches, well, that's a different issue.

 

Could a reviewer help prevent certain areas from becoming overrun with partial PTs?

 

No

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I will happily publish any cache that meets the guidelines. The "anti-power trail" section of the guidelines was removed years ago.

 

Once published, caches must continue to meet the guidelines. Therefore, your best chance of opening up a spot may be due to lack of maintenance by a high-numbers hider. Many of those hiders, however, are as good at keeping up with maintenance duties as they are with finding new places to hide caches.

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First come, first served...

 

I don't believe you'd find any Reviewer who'd want to get caught up in a favoritism hassle.

The local cachers would have a field day with emails to HQ.

 

"Say so gently", huh?

I feel it's pretty nervy of you to consider backstabbing attempting to bypass others (while getting an impartial volunteer Reviewer involved no less...) like that.

 

You want a cache in a certain spot? Place it.

 

Wow. I don't mind you putting me in my place, but I don't get the "backstabbing" comment at all. I mean, I have seen in the forums posts from cachers who have stated that reviewers in their areas don't allow power trails. Ours does, and I accept that. I've also seem plenty of people not like PTs, so I know I'm not alone. But I fail to see how my asking a question (notice I never said DEMAND) is aggressive.

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I will happily publish any cache that meets the guidelines. The "anti-power trail" section of the guidelines was removed years ago.

 

This is very helpful, thank you. I actually didn't know that there had been a guideline about them at any time, nor that it had been rescinded. I only picked up on people's comments about them here in the forum. I also figured out long ago that people play the game differently.

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Besides, there's a "first come, first served" attitude when it comes to new caches, right?

 

Correct.

 

But what about asking our reviewer?

 

That would be inappropriate for a Reviewer to suggest that someone can't hide a cache in a particular area. If a cache owner is having trouble maintaining a large number of caches, well, that's a different issue.

 

Could a reviewer help prevent certain areas from becoming overrun with partial PTs?

 

No

 

Thanks. That is helpful. I think my problem when writing the question was misinterpreting previous comments of "PTs are not welcome by some reviewers" as "PTs are discouraged by GS". I appreciate you clarifying that, even if, obviously, I'd hoped for a different answer.

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Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? I would not want to ask him directly, because it might offend him and he may not care anyway. Besides, there's a "first come, first served" attitude when it comes to new caches, right? But what about asking our reviewer? Could a reviewer help prevent certain areas from becoming overrun with partial PTs?

Hey, I hear ya.

 

There are several public garden areas locally, some open 24-hours a day (so you can see the lights at night). They have electrical outlets! I imagine what I could make with an electrically-powered Geocache... field puzzles, especially. Cool! Yet the cache is always a badly placed small tupperware bowl under a lawn ornament, in plain view of all visitors, so it's muggled a lot. The land owner placed it, and is sooo proud of it. :anibad:

 

I always let it go. That's the cache. Too bad, so sad. But if you have an idea for an inspired cache in an amazing spot, it's OK to ask the Cache Owner anyway. If I was that Cache Owner, I'd want you to ask. I placed caches because there were none, often as a challenge to myself, since some places are where nobody could keep caches, they keep getting archived. None of mine are intended to block a very creative cache in a great place. I can't speak for the power hiders where you live (the ones who do regular maintenance? Wish they were here :ph34r:). But if any of my caches are in the way of your superior artistic vision (and I mean that in a good way :anicute:), I would want you to discuss it with me.

Edited by kunarion
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First come, first served...

 

I don't believe you'd find any Reviewer who'd want to get caught up in a favoritism hassle.

The local cachers would have a field day with emails to HQ.

 

"Say so gently", huh?

I feel it's pretty nervy of you to consider backstabbing attempting to bypass others (while getting an impartial volunteer Reviewer involved no less...) like that.

 

You want a cache in a certain spot? Place it.

 

Wow. I don't mind you putting me in my place, but I don't get the "backstabbing" comment at all. I mean, I have seen in the forums posts from cachers who have stated that reviewers in their areas don't allow power trails. Ours does, and I accept that. I've also seem plenty of people not like PTs, so I know I'm not alone. But I fail to see how my asking a question (notice I never said DEMAND) is aggressive.

You have a cacher in mind. The reason for this thread.

Instead of facing the cacher you're worried about, telling him of your interest, you instead want to privately contact a Reviewer about holding a spot for you alone.

 

What would you call it? :laughing:

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Hey, I hear ya.

 

There are several public “garden” areas locally, some open 24-hours a day (so you can see the lights at night). They have electrical outlets! I imagine what I could make with an electrically-powered Geocache... field puzzles, especially. Cool! Yet the cache is always a badly placed small tupperware bowl under a lawn ornament, in plain view of all visitors, so it's muggled a lot. The land owner placed it, and is sooo proud of it. :anibad:

 

I always let it go. That's the cache. Too bad, so sad. But if you have an idea for an inspired cache in an amazing spot, it's OK to ask the Cache Owner anyway. If I was that Cache Owner, I'd want you to ask. I placed caches because there were none, often as a challenge to myself, since some places are where nobody could keep caches, they keep getting archived. None of mine are intended to block a very creative cache in a great place. I can't speak for the power hiders where you live (the ones who do regular maintenance? Wish they were here :ph34r:). But if any of my caches are in the way of your superior artistic vision (and I mean that in a good way :anicute:), I would want you to discuss it with me.

 

I was wanting to hide under a rock until I read your response. Thank you. I want to be clear that this particular CO does seem to maintain his caches and I've never thought or suggested otherwise. My hope only was to have some variety in certain places. I will consider reaching out to him if I can figure out how to do it in a casual way. It's tricky because I've never met him. I'm disheartened, I guess, because there don't seem to be any non-urban areas in this region that don't already have caches and I got into the game only fairly recently. But long enough ago to know some of the trappings of poor cache placement (again, not by the CO I mentioned)

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First come, first served...

 

I don't believe you'd find any Reviewer who'd want to get caught up in a favoritism hassle.

The local cachers would have a field day with emails to HQ.

 

"Say so gently", huh?

I feel it's pretty nervy of you to consider backstabbing attempting to bypass others (while getting an impartial volunteer Reviewer involved no less...) like that.

 

You want a cache in a certain spot? Place it.

 

Wow. I don't mind you putting me in my place, but I don't get the "backstabbing" comment at all. I mean, I have seen in the forums posts from cachers who have stated that reviewers in their areas don't allow power trails. Ours does, and I accept that. I've also seem plenty of people not like PTs, so I know I'm not alone. But I fail to see how my asking a question (notice I never said DEMAND) is aggressive.

 

I suggest choosing the location and starting the process online ASAP. That locks it in. You can then take a few days to get the details in order before you actually submit it for publication.

 

I think the comments were too harsh. You didn't jump into the forum making demands - you asked for opinions *before* taking action. Very courteous and considerate.

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I want to be clear that this particular CO does seem to maintain his caches and I've never thought or suggested otherwise. My hope only was to have some variety in certain places. I will consider reaching out to him if I can figure out how to do it in a casual way. It's tricky because I've never met him. I'm disheartened, I guess, because there don't seem to be any non-urban areas in this region that don't already have caches and I got into the game only fairly recently. But long enough ago to know some of the trappings of poor cache placement (again, not by the CO I mentioned)

Just as you, that guy has no areas reserved in advance by Reviewers. Part of the fun of being a CO is finding the cool new "turf" that brings cachers to new places. Go find those places. :anicute:

Edited by kunarion
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I suggest choosing the location and starting the process online ASAP. That locks it in. You can then take a few days to get the details in order before you actually submit it for publication.

 

I think the comments were too harsh. You didn't jump into the forum making demands - you asked for opinions *before* taking action. Very courteous and considerate.

 

Whoa, I did not know I could get it started a few days before it was ready to publish. This is very helpful.

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Whoa, I did not know I could get it started a few days before it was ready to publish. This is very helpful.

My local reviewer has a process that holds a cache submission for a long time, depending on the situation. It doesn't reserve a whole area, it's just for a cache, so the coordinates must be set. Probably most reviewers can do something similar.

Edited by kunarion
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I believe carpet bombers have an addiction.

 

It's really not fair to others who would like to place caches. And it's not fair to those of us who would prefer to find quality caches.

 

It's extremely rare that carpet bombers can afford to place quality containers. I have yet to see it happen. At around $3 per small container (I00ml authentic Lock & Lock ™) it will cost most of them $300+ dollars. So they end up buying dollar store containers or using freebies - most often pill bottles. Most often micros because they are cheap/free, easier to hide and easier to carry a sackful in the car or 25+ on a walk.

 

Every park, and trail eventually is carpet bombed and then comes the country roads. Quality hiders are pushed out. Who wants their quality cache swallowed up by carpet bombed caches? We as finders end up with little choice. If we want to cache in our area there are a handful of hiders that have planting 80% of the caches, each having around 100 hides and growing.

Edited by L0ne.R
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I suggest choosing the location and starting the process online ASAP. That locks it in. You can then take a few days to get the details in order before you actually submit it for publication.

 

 

I think this is the only way to do it...if you like a spot get your caches in ASAP...I am not sure at one point the location is 'locked' (or held for your cache in progress or whatnot) for you, but I got mine published as fast as I could once I chose the locations.

 

I believe for carpet bombers have an addiction.

 

It's really not fair to others who would like to place caches. And it's not fair to those of us who would prefer to find quality caches.

 

It's extremely rare that carpet bombers can afford to place quality containers. I have yet to see it happen. At around $3 per small container (I00ml authentic Lock & Lock ) it will cost most of them $300+ dollars. So they end up buying dollar store containers or using freebies - most often pill bottles. Most often micros because they are cheap/free, easier to hide and easier to carry a sackful in the car or 25+ on a walk.

 

Every park, and trail eventually is carpet bombed and then comes the country roads. Quality hiders are pushed out. Who wants their quality cache swallowed up by carpet bombed caches? We as finders end up with little choice. If we want to cache in our area there are a handful of hiders that have planting 80% of the caches, each having around 100 hides and growing.

 

I agree its not really fair to others to have one (or even two) cachers saturate a place.

But I guess the "power placers" don't see it that way (and somehow I've seen finders say they LIKE the caches? Me after three pill bottles hidden the same way along the same trail the same distance apart I was tired of it...). I wish others would be considerate and chose locations they truly like and leave the rest of the area free for others but that doesn't seem to happen much anymore. Somehow power placers seem to think they are doing a favor...rather than the opposite...

 

Really will just have to wait for the owner to archive them (or stop doing maintenance and then eventually have them archived by reviewers) to allow others to place there.

 

If a quality cache is lots among the carpet bomb then maybe (if it gets visited at all) that one cache will be remembered for its quality compared to the rest? (least thats what I hope...I certainly would.)

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Thanks to all for the helpful feedback. I truly appreciate it. I really hesitated posting the question in the first place (didn't take long to regret hitting "Post New Topic", either, sigh), because I know feelings can run strong in the forums and that people like geocaching in different ways. Part of the reason I have had angst about this situation is that there are a few cachers in this area (in addition to the one I mentioned) who - to an outsider like me - act like there's a local geocaching inner circle to which I do not belong. They occasionally mention each other in cache descriptions and even sometimes in the cache titles. I don't mean the occasional "Tribute to Amazing Cacher who reached 1,000 Finds Cache", but in far more mundane ways as well. In some places, they reference multiple insider jokes in the cache description as well. That's not true for all local COs by any means - hardly - but enough that a few other people have mentioned it as well.

 

When I started 2 years ago, I didn't feel this way. But, ironically, now that I have more experience, I do. The type of high number placers didn't seem to exist in this area then, either. I do go to some local events and enjoy meeting local geocachers, so I try not to live in a caching bubble. My concern is that newbies will feel a bit intimidated or shut out when they see the same COs over and over. (Especially with the inside jokes) And I absolutely do get that there's no rule about that. But it would be a shame if geocaching became solely about the high numbers and little variety.

 

I highly respect our reviewer, and the few times I've dealt with him, he's been incredibly fair. And it's clear that my original question could sound like I'm attacking the way others play the game. But all I really want is to feel like there's room in the game for me and other newbies. If I fumbled in my tactics or approach, I apologize.

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I suggest choosing the location and starting the process online ASAP. That locks it in. You can then take a few days to get the details in order before you actually submit it for publication.

 

I think this is the only way to do it...if you like a spot get your caches in ASAP..

 

It depends on one's goals. If there is a high risk that an area gets carpet bombed, I would not want to own a cache there anyway.

So I rather would try to find out more about potential plans of the hider mentioned in the OP or just wait what happens.

 

If a quality cache is lots among the carpet bomb then maybe (if it gets visited at all) that one cache will be remembered for its quality compared to the rest? (least thats what I hope...I certainly would.)

 

Note very likely to happen and even less likely the cache owner will learn about it as the typical logs will be mass logs.

Others who appreciate unique caches will stay away from the area right from the beginning due to the carpet bombing which makes it too hard to make a reasonable selection.

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No easy way to frame rules but sometimes there seems just too much of the same type in an area e.g. Fiendish Puzzles, High Terrain, Hard challenges etc. No problem with any of them in isolation but sometimes there just seems a sea of similarity which must seem quite discouraging to newcomers.

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I believe carpet bombers have an addiction.

 

It's really not fair to others who would like to place caches. And it's not fair to those of us who would prefer to find quality caches.

 

It's extremely rare that carpet bombers can afford to place quality containers. I have yet to see it happen. At around $3 per small container (I00ml authentic Lock & Lock ™) it will cost most of them $300+ dollars. So they end up buying dollar store containers or using freebies - most often pill bottles. Most often micros because they are cheap/free, easier to hide and easier to carry a sackful in the car or 25+ on a walk.

 

Every park, and trail eventually is carpet bombed and then comes the country roads. Quality hiders are pushed out. Who wants their quality cache swallowed up by carpet bombed caches? We as finders end up with little choice. If we want to cache in our area there are a handful of hiders that have planting 80% of the caches, each having around 100 hides and growing.

 

I agree with everything you've stated. Unfortunately, we are in the minority. I've always believed that the majority should rule so, as much as it pains me to say this, it's not good for the few of us left who aren't into it for the numbers.

 

Of course, i definitely feel for the OP. It's a shame that he or she wants to place a good quality cache that will probably be surrounded by junk. It kinda reminds me of that beautiful home on a beautiful piece of property but that is surrounded by run down shacks and trashy neighbors. It takes away from that house and the property value goes down.

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I believe carpet bombers have an addiction.

 

It's really not fair to others who would like to place caches. And it's not fair to those of us who would prefer to find quality caches.

 

It's extremely rare that carpet bombers can afford to place quality containers. I have yet to see it happen. At around $3 per small container (I00ml authentic Lock & Lock ™) it will cost most of them $300+ dollars. So they end up buying dollar store containers or using freebies - most often pill bottles. Most often micros because they are cheap/free, easier to hide and easier to carry a sackful in the car or 25+ on a walk.

 

Every park, and trail eventually is carpet bombed and then comes the country roads. Quality hiders are pushed out. Who wants their quality cache swallowed up by carpet bombed caches? We as finders end up with little choice. If we want to cache in our area there are a handful of hiders that have planting 80% of the caches, each having around 100 hides and growing.

 

I agree with everything you've stated. Unfortunately, we are in the minority. I've always believed that the majority should rule so, as much as it pains me to say this, it's not good for the few of us left who aren't into it for the numbers.

 

Of course, i definitely feel for the OP. It's a shame that he or she wants to place a good quality cache that will probably be surrounded by junk. It kinda reminds me of that beautiful home on a beautiful piece of property but that is surrounded by run down shacks and trashy neighbors. It takes away from that house and the property value goes down.

 

I'm all for quality caches over a large quantity of caches. Thing is, talk is cheap. If you want to put out quality caches, you can't just say you want to. If you know what you want to see, know what you want to do, just do it. Or you can agonize about it for weeks or months, wondering if you can somehow "reserve" an area for yourself, and in the meantime someone else comes along and throws out a million crappy caches in "your spot".

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I'm all for quality caches over a large quantity of caches. Thing is, talk is cheap. If you want to put out quality caches, you can't just say you want to. If you know what you want to see, know what you want to do, just do it. Or you can agonize about it for weeks or months, wondering if you can somehow "reserve" an area for yourself, and in the meantime someone else comes along and throws out a million crappy caches in "your spot".

 

Did you overread this? "It may seem silly to others, but I do not want to place a cache in an area that might be soon overrun with a whole bunch of mediocre, single-owner caches. Call me crazy, but after waiting this long to hide a cache, I don't want it to get lost in the crowd."

 

That's the crux and is also how I feel, and not to "reserve" an area. If someone comes along and throws out many caches near my planned cache, I'm rather glad than unhappy about not having yet hidden a cache and would archive mine if I already had a cache hidden there.

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I think first come; first serve is probably the fairest system we can have, so now you're able, the best option would be to lock down your idea and get the ball moving.

 

If you aren't ready, I think going to the CO in question would be 100% better than going above their head (as it were) to the reviewer as 1) I don't think the reviewer would do that and 2) the CO would probably appreciate a conversation as opposed to finding out you're trying to block them through a third party.

 

Another option would be to reach out to this CO and propose a joint venture. Could be a win/win if you have a partner who can perform maintenance if you're not physically able to in the future (Obviously I have no idea of your health and appreciate this may not be a future concern). Teamwork makes the dream work and all that jazz :rolleyes:

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If you aren't ready, I think going to the CO in question would be 100% better than going above their head (as it were) to the reviewer as 1) I don't think the reviewer would do that and 2) the CO would probably appreciate a conversation as opposed to finding out you're trying to block them through a third party.

 

Thanks. I think this is a good perspective for me. I hadn't really thought about it in terms of "going over someone's head". I was just thinking about it from the perspective of keeping a modest amount of various-owner caches in that area (like I said, there are already several caches there, so mine wouldn't be in virgin territory) Guess I was dreaming, is all. That being said, I think I'll just submit it for publishing (soon - lock & lock and swag have been ordered!) and wait and see. If the CO does place caches there - and I have no reason to know if he will - I'd decide what to do about that later.

 

Another option would be to reach out to this CO and propose a joint venture. Could be a win/win if you have a partner who can perform maintenance if you're not physically able to in the future (Obviously I have no idea of your health and appreciate this may not be a future concern). Teamwork makes the dream work and all that jazz :rolleyes:

 

Another good point. For me, though, my kids are old enough and interested in geocaching just enough that they can maintain it if I go down again.

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Have you been paying attention? Don't do it "soon." Start your listing now, just don't hit the "ready to submit" button.

That DOES lock the space up until you place the cache or the reviewer thinks you've taken too long.

Here's a tip that some people won't like but you might consider it: Also open listings about 600 feet on either side of the cache you're going to place. Then after a month or so you can de-list them. That will at least give you a short period of the exclusive listing you are looking for.

I personally wish they had kept the anti-power trail rules, but I've given up fighting it. There's nothing uglier to me than the green slime trails on the maps in many places.

And I certainly understand your concern about your one good cache in the middle of someone's idea of a "power trail."

There's nothing sadder than when your good cache gets mass logged with 169 others without any acknowledgement.

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Not for nuthin', but you could always send the guy a message saying something like

"Hey, I know you like to cover areas with caches (and thanks for making this a cache-rich town), but I'm thinking of hiding my first cache, and I'd like to see how people respond to it. I'm proud of what I'm designing!

 

So, I'm writing to you as our town's most prolific hider to see if you have any plans for this area:_________.

 

As I'm sure you understand, a single cache can't really stand out if it's in a sea of others and has a high probability of being ignored, or thought of as 'just another one in that group', so I'd like to give this a try in this area.

 

Can you let me know of your intentions, so I know if cache ownership is even worh trying?"

 

If he says "Sure, go ahead", you've made a geocaching friend.

If he ignores you, says "Screw you" or immediately goes ahead with his own, then he's revealed himself to be an unmitigated jerk with no consideration.

 

In other words, be honest and lay out your concerns. Avoid any projected negative attitude about his way of doing things. He knows he carpet-bombs, so you're not tellin' any secrets here!

 

------------------------

 

To all who have advised the OP to get started on his cache NOW, keep in mind that even if he shoe-horns one in before the other guy gets around to that area, he's still going to end up with his cache being anonymous in the middle of a string. Most people finding it won't even realize it's not part of the PT that overruns it, and there goes any chance of getting any individual consideration or anything more that PT-style logs. Disappointing.

 

We have a Rail-Trail near my place that used to have a couple of really stand-out caches on it. Now they're just numbers 50, 73 and 102 on the trail.

 

Again, talk to him. Maybe ask him for advice; if he has that many caches out there, he MUST be able to share some wisdom, so get him to buy into YOUR cache-hiding career!

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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Would it be an option to hide your cache as a multi or puzzle cache? That way, even if a power trail is installed in that area, it should be less likely that your cache is spammed with copy&paste logs and many power trail aficionados might just ignore it.

 

+1

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Would it be an option to hide your cache as a multi or puzzle cache? That way, even if a power trail is installed in that area, it should be less likely that your cache is spammed with copy&paste logs and many power trail aficionados might just ignore it.

 

That's a great idea, given the circumstances.

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Hi GeoLTL -

 

I see you are in suburban DC.

 

Here comes the potentially sticky issue: there is a high numbers geocacher (both in finding and in hiding) in my region who has plastered an area about 15-20 miles from my house with hundreds of caches in the last year or two.

I've got a good idea of who you are talking about and to be frank, the number of caches that he is putting out is insane. I don't understand how he plans to keep on top of the maintenance for that many caches and would like to see how many of them are disabled or archived in the next year or two, but I digress.

 

Call me crazy, but after waiting this long to hide a cache, I don't want it to get lost in the crowd.

 

If you only plan on hiding one cache, then it WILL get lost in the crowd. I think you should plan on doing several caches. Put some thought into them. There ARE still cachers out there who appreciate thoughtful caches. Make them multi or mystery caches and it will weed out a lot of the strictly numbers cachers. Keep them close together in one area and they will be easier to maintain. Make at least one replacement cache container at the same time that you set-up each cache to make future maintenance much easier.

 

Besides, there's a "first come, first served" attitude when it comes to new caches, right? But what about asking our reviewer? Could a reviewer help prevent certain areas from becoming overrun with partial PTs?

 

There are a lot of PTs in your area by a lot of different COs. The nature of the linear park network there lends itself to that.

 

I would just PM the CO with your request. What's the worst that could happen? Isn't it in his best interest to have more caches for him to find?

 

As others have said, if you want to save some spots, then go out there with your GPS and pin them. Start a new cache listing on Geocaching, input your coordinates and save a draft. It does not go to the reviewer until you click 'submit', but it will hold your place while you write the listing and finish your cache container. It will not save the place forever, but it does give you ample time to finalize your cache.

 

Cheers

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Of what I know about carpet bombing or powertrail to Geowoodstock events...they do cause problems. Neighbors are all piss because the coming and going all day for three days. Most of the time, its more on the low key side but once Woodstock come to town... oh boy, that wont go well.

 

For those that never been to Woodstock, its really crazy! Cars at every GZ. LOL!

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Hide a quality container in an interesting spot, make the cache a multi with a couple (or more) physical stages (as per 'Stone's suggestion) and your cache WILL stand out. The intermediate stages will provide a buffer but most important: if your cache is interesting enough it will get favorite points and many geocachers filter their searches that way.

 

GO GET 'EM!

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Of what I know about carpet bombing or powertrail to Geowoodstock events...they do cause problems. Neighbors are all piss because the coming and going all day for three days. Most of the time, its more on the low key side but once Woodstock come to town... oh boy, that wont go well.

 

For those that never been to Woodstock, its really crazy! Cars at every GZ. LOL!

 

Yep. This happened at MOGA this year. Law enforcement got involved when certain caches were placed down a couple of dead end streets forcing hundreds of cars to turn around at the neighbor's property at the end. Somehow the series survived that weekend although I know not how blink.gif

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Hey GeoLTL!

 

I am very glad to hear your health has turned to where you can feel good about hiding a cache! As a CO with over 200 caches out I thought I would respond to your question. I am sure there are a few good spots available. Make a cool cache and cachers will set it for the one they want to find. All the other boring ones around it will give the cachers looking, the numbers to give yours a favorite easily! Once it gets many favorites then cachers will want to go find it!

 

We place unique caches for most all of ours. They are not a bunch of pill bottles and are spread out for 100 miles plus. I have heard from some that there are no open spots. Then a new cacher will join and place a couple of hundred showing me that there is open places.

 

Some of the new cachers wanting to place some will place them and then realize how much work it is to maintain them and give up soon. I am actually thankful for the cachers who do put out a bunch because that gives me caches to find. If we kept tuns of open spaces hoping someone new might place a cool cache then the game might slow way down and i like to go find caches.

 

I would hit up the CO you are talking about. Odds are they just like playing the game and might be open to letting you have a area for your ideas. I know we would and the others around here who hide many caches feel the same. If there is a good idea for a cache near one of there boring ones we would be happy to open the area up for your idea! I have had cachers tell me they have a good idea for a cache but cant find anywhere to hide it. I have given them spots they love to hide there idea.

 

Anyways my advice to you as of now with you never have hidden a cache is just to find a cool spot and hide 1 or 3. Maintain them for a while and see how you like being a CO. See how others respond. You might realize it is way to much work...or you might find out it is the greatest thing ever! If you do find out you like being a CO and maintaining your caches then get more involved into opening spaces for the hides you want to place. Most likely the CO you are talking about will go find them and if they are cool they will want to open up places for your hides. Being a CO is lots of fun and lots of work.

 

I hope you get some good ones out!

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I agree with those who suggested a multi or puzzle (or multi staged puzzle) will make your cache stand out, even if later on a large trail of caches comes into the area. Many doing the large trail will skip your cache, others will make the effort. Those who make the effort will likely remember that. If your cache is a traditional - surrounded by a large trail of traditionals - it is likely your cache won't get remembered, unless there is something really unique about the container.

 

What is inevitable (but not really a problem*) is that this hypothetical large trail will bring more finders. By that I mean - say you hide this multi/puzzle in an area with no caches within several miles of it. You won't get many finds (relatively), but if it is good, those who find it will like it.. and word of mouth will bring more finds. If later the large trail comes into the area, it will bring more cachers, some of who will find your cache.

 

*It is only a problem (in my view) if the remoteness of the cache is important to you. Sometimes a CO will hide a single cache which requires a log walk to get to, for the challenge of it. It might take half a day to find that single cache; and that might be what the CO wants. If later there are 50 caches in the area, that will change.

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I will happily publish any cache that meets the guidelines. The "anti-power trail" section of the guidelines was removed years ago.

 

Once published, caches must continue to meet the guidelines. Therefore, your best chance of opening up a spot may be due to lack of maintenance by a high-numbers hider. Many of those hiders, however, are as good at keeping up with maintenance duties as they are with finding new places to hide caches.

 

He/she is right, but after awhile these people will eventually ignore many of their caches, and they will go missing or something else will happen and then they get archived. I've seen three different scenarios near me where people who were once high numbers (finds and hides) eventually stopped being involved. One is a landlord, one was too busy with personal things, and another stopping logging in after awhile. I'm not saying that either of these will happen to the caches that the OP is referring to, but saying that their "best chance of opening up a spot may be due to lack of maintenance" is probably correct.

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Would it be an option to hide your cache as a multi or puzzle cache? That way, even if a power trail is installed in that area, it should be less likely that your cache is spammed with copy&paste logs and many power trail aficionados might just ignore it.

 

Bingo,,, sounds like a nice idea!

 

Again, i'm in the minority but i'd be skipping the power trails. Yours would be a cache that i would want to look into trying for if i ever found myself in your area.

Edited by Mudfrog
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First come first served sounds good in theory but let's be realistic, some geocachers have way too many caches hidden that they can’t possibly maintain properly due to the logistics of time management. Oversaturation of caches in an area by one individual in my opinion is bad etiquette and self centered. The way the guidelines are written now, there is little you can do except post a needs maintenance or achieve when appropriate and wait for the spot to become available. I would love to see a cap on the number of geocaches you are allowed to hide.

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I would love to see a cap on the number of geocaches you are allowed to hide.
As the guidelines say:

 

"The region in which a cacher is considered able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from person to person. A cacher who has previously logged caches within a wide range of their home may be considered able to maintain a geocache 200 miles (322 km) away. However, someone whose geocaching activities have primarily been within 25 miles (40 km) of home may not be able to maintain a geocache this far from home. This factor is determined at the discretion of the cache reviewer or Groundspeak."

 

The same goes for the number of geocaches which a cacher is considered able to maintain responsibly. For some, even 1 cache is too many. Others can maintain dozens, or even hundreds, especially if they've figured out how to hide caches in a way that reduces the maintenance demands.

 

And as a practical matter, if there is a hard limit on the number of caches a given account can own, then people will just create more than one account.

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I would love to see a cap on the number of geocaches you are allowed to hide.
As the guidelines say:

 

"The region in which a cacher is considered able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from person to person. A cacher who has previously logged caches within a wide range of their home may be considered able to maintain a geocache 200 miles (322 km) away. However, someone whose geocaching activities have primarily been within 25 miles (40 km) of home may not be able to maintain a geocache this far from home. This factor is determined at the discretion of the cache reviewer or Groundspeak."

 

The same goes for the number of geocaches which a cacher is considered able to maintain responsibly. For some, even 1 cache is too many. Others can maintain dozens, or even hundreds, especially if they've figured out how to hide caches in a way that reduces the maintenance demands.

 

And as a practical matter, if there is a hard limit on the number of caches a given account can own, then people will just create more than one account.

I'm sure there are a few cachers that can maintain many caches but I still think it's not fair to the others in the community to control a particular geographical area. It's like the kid that empties the candy bowl that says take one and he has little or no though for others that will follow. In my experience the CO's we are talking about aren't well know for the quality of their caches.

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I would love to see a cap on the number of geocaches you are allowed to hide.
As the guidelines say:

 

"The region in which a cacher is considered able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from person to person. A cacher who has previously logged caches within a wide range of their home may be considered able to maintain a geocache 200 miles (322 km) away. However, someone whose geocaching activities have primarily been within 25 miles (40 km) of home may not be able to maintain a geocache this far from home. This factor is determined at the discretion of the cache reviewer or Groundspeak."

 

The same goes for the number of geocaches which a cacher is considered able to maintain responsibly. For some, even 1 cache is too many. Others can maintain dozens, or even hundreds, especially if they've figured out how to hide caches in a way that reduces the maintenance demands.

 

And as a practical matter, if there is a hard limit on the number of caches a given account can own, then people will just create more than one account.

I'm sure there are a few cachers that can maintain many caches but I still think it's not fair to the others in the community to control a particular geographical area. It's like the kid that empties the candy bowl that says take one and he has little or no though for others that will follow. In my experience the CO's we are talking about aren't well know for the quality of their caches.

 

Yeah I hate people putting out a bunch of new caches just to get favorite points when there could be caches more innovative and fun instead of the challenging circumstances. Although some do love extreme terrain/difficulty most feel there should be a limit on those in my area. So I can understand people trying to prevent saturation where a majority of the caches are owned by the same person(s). In most cases, there are over 200 caches. I, myself cannot handle twice as much as I already have so I will never get to that many hides but some do and eventually some caches go missing, user gets too many emails, etc.

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I dominate an area, but it took me 10 years to do so since no one else had any interest.

I don't know how the people in your area feel about it, but I'm perfectly happy with a diligent and qualified CO providing caches for people to find so I don't have to.

 

First come first served sounds good in theory but let's be realistic, some geocachers have way too many caches hidden that they can’t possibly maintain properly due to the logistics of time management.

If someone isn't maintaining their caches, complain about that. Don't complain because you hypothesize that they might not be able to maintain their caches when they, nevertheless, are.

 

Oversaturation of caches in an area by one individual in my opinion is bad etiquette and self centered.

I bless the individual willing to hide and maintain caches, no matter how many they put out. "Self centered"? More like selfless. Again, if the caches aren't good enough, complain about that, don't complain about how many they put out when they're all worthy caches.

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I dominate an area, but it took me 10 years to do so since no one else had any interest.

I don't know how the people in your area feel about it, but I'm perfectly happy with a diligent and qualified CO providing caches for people to find so I don't have to.

 

First come first served sounds good in theory but let's be realistic, some geocachers have way too many caches hidden that they can't possibly maintain properly due to the logistics of time management.

If someone isn't maintaining their caches, complain about that. Don't complain because you hypothesize that they might not be able to maintain their caches when they, nevertheless, are.

 

Oversaturation of caches in an area by one individual in my opinion is bad etiquette and self centered.

I bless the individual willing to hide and maintain caches, no matter how many they put out. "Self centered"? More like selfless. Again, if the caches aren't good enough, complain about that, don't complain about how many they put out when they're all worthy caches.

 

The OP's lament is that they would love to hide a cache, a quality cache or two, but can't become a CO because someone has carpet bombed the area. Those COs are not hiding worthy caches. Which is often the case because placing 100s of caches is too expensive even when you pay only $1 for each container.

 

In 15 years of geocaching I know of only 2 COs who have over 100 active hides and in over a decade of hiding, consistently continue to produce quality, swag size where swag size will fit, well thought out caches, and maintain both the listing and each cache in a timely fashion. They don't carpet bomb - take over a whole park or trail system.

 

All other hiders have followed the pattern of placing cheap mostly free containers, mostly micros, mostly abandoned as soon as they are planted, i.e. no intention of going back to check on them and repair when necessary and generally plant them .1 miles apart covering a whole park or trail systems and sometimes miles of country roads.

 

 

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Yeah I hate people putting out a bunch of new caches just to get favorite points when there could be caches more innovative and fun instead of the challenging circumstances.

 

Why do you know that such caches are any more put out to get FPs than the caches you call innovative and fun?

 

Although some do love extreme terrain/difficulty most feel there should be a limit on those in my area.

 

Where does extreme start for you?

 

Personally I like hiking caches and have no interest into innovative caches at all.

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