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Cache "Saturation"


amuse-Goose

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Hi. Me again. I'm having a hell of a time setting up my 2nd cache. Coords are finally correct, but I'm still too close to an existing cache. Get ready for a TL;DR -

 

My husband and I have been at the cache's location 3x to obtain accurate coordinates. With the exception of my coordinates entered for review a few days ago, all other nearby caches were well over 528 feet away per the official Geocaching app - and I made sure we opened > reopened the app to see that it would still find us on the map > measure that other caches were 528+ feet away. Both of us use different devices, and both were mirror. Also, upon entering the most recent coordinates as if I were creating a new listing (again, to ensure accuracy/distance away from nearby caches) it was NOT in the "unavailable" area/red circle. On the very cusp of a red circle, yes - but area available (unlike with my first coordinates, a message appeared stating area unavailable, and admittedly so, it was in a red circle - but I continued with submitting my listing thinking, eh, worth a shot).

 

Not trying to get argumentative with the reviewer - just trying to get a clear understanding before I may have to relocate (I'm a bit slow, if you haven't already noticed). FINALLY my coords are correct, but yet again, I am still too close to an existing cache. I explained to the reviewer aforementioned - he/she inquired if I had multi's "filtered" - I didn't, I don't, and I can't. Perhaps due to a non-premium membership? I read through the Fundamental Placement Guide which he/she linked me to. It states, quote, "Non-physical caches or stages, including reference points, trail-head/parking coordinates and/or a virtual stage waypoints, are exempt from this guideline. Additionally, within a single multi-cache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between physical elements." The cache I am too close to is a multi. If it is x-amount feet away from a non-physical stage, wouldn't this make my cache exempt from the distance guideline > publishable? (As previously stated, the caches in relation to updated coords showed they were 528+ feet away, and absolutely no option to filter within the Geocache app.)

 

Any insight or clarification is greatly appreciated before I plead my case to the reviewer (a bit scared - think they're starting to get ticked). And not trying to play a card or get a sympathetic vote here, but please - before anyone decides to tear me apart for being a pain in the arse/idiot, I got into caching because I suffer from dyscalculia - somehow, caching helps ease the anxieties of playing with numbers and maps, etc., even if I don't get it right the first time. I'm determined. Not only is it great for exercising my brain, but my body, too! As a matter of fact, it has reinstated my confidence to pursue college (the math-thing always held me back). And Tetris. I rock at Tetris.

 

Thank you!!!

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Hi. Me again. I'm having a hell of a time setting up my 2nd cache. Coords are finally correct, but I'm still too close to an existing cache. Get ready for a TL;DR -

 

My husband and I have been at the cache's location 3x to obtain accurate coordinates. With the exception of my coordinates entered for review a few days ago, all other nearby caches were well over 528 feet away per the official Geocaching app - and I made sure we opened > reopened the app to see that it would still find us on the map > measure that other caches were 528+ feet away. Both of us use different devices, and both were mirror. Also, upon entering the most recent coordinates as if I were creating a new listing (again, to ensure accuracy/distance away from nearby caches) it was NOT in the "unavailable" area/red circle. On the very cusp of a red circle, yes - but area available (unlike with my first coordinates, a message appeared stating area unavailable, and admittedly so, it was in a red circle - but I continued with submitting my listing thinking, eh, worth a shot).

 

Not trying to get argumentative with the reviewer - just trying to get a clear understanding before I may have to relocate (I'm a bit slow, if you haven't already noticed). FINALLY my coords are correct, but yet again, I am still too close to an existing cache. I explained to the reviewer aforementioned - he/she inquired if I had multi's "filtered" - I didn't, I don't, and I can't. Perhaps due to a non-premium membership? I read through the Fundamental Placement Guide which he/she linked me to. It states, quote, "Non-physical caches or stages, including reference points, trail-head/parking coordinates and/or a virtual stage waypoints, are exempt from this guideline. Additionally, within a single multi-cache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between physical elements." The cache I am too close to is a multi. If it is x-amount feet away from a non-physical stage, wouldn't this make my cache exempt from the distance guideline > publishable? (As previously stated, the caches in relation to updated coords showed they were 528+ feet away, and absolutely no option to filter within the Geocache app.)

 

Any insight or clarification is greatly appreciated before I plead my case to the reviewer (a bit scared - think they're starting to get ticked). And not trying to play a card or get a sympathetic vote here, but please - before anyone decides to tear me apart for being a pain in the arse/idiot, I got into caching because I suffer from dyscalculia - somehow, caching helps ease the anxieties of playing with numbers and maps, etc., even if I don't get it right the first time. I'm determined. Not only is it great for exercising my brain, but my body, too! As a matter of fact, it has reinstated my confidence to pursue college (the math-thing always held me back). And Tetris. I rock at Tetris.

 

Thank you!!!

 

 

 

I believe if you look it will say no minimum distance between physical elements of the same cache or something to that effect.

 

You have to realize that the finals for multi's of puzzle caches may not show up on the map. Only the starting point(for multis) and what could very well be a random location for the mystery-after all if they did, there would be no point to them. Your cache still has to be 5228 feet away from those multiple stages even though they don't show up on the map. Honestly though- if there really is that little room, does there need to be another cache there? Find a better place-more open.

Edited by T.D.M.22
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Keep in mind that physical stages of a multi or puzzle aren't revealed to you on the planning map unless the coordinates are made public. Thus, it's possible to think you're hiding in a safe place when you're really not.

 

You can always contact your reviewer about a location before you take the time to actually place it.

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Hi, amuse-Goose. I understand your frustration, especially since you are being so careful.

 

The reviewer gave you an idea of the problem by asking about multis. It sounds as if you are too close to a physical stage of a multicache. Have you done the multis in the area? If the multicache starts a long way away, you would have no reason to think there would be a conflict.

 

It could be a "premium" cache, but I think the reviewer would have said so.

 

Idea number 1: find the local multicaches.

 

Idea number 2: ask the reviewer whether they can give you a nudge about which direction you could move to place a cache.

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You aren't the first person to have problems with placing a new cache too close to a multi-cache, and you won't be the last. That may be somewhat reassuring, knowing that it isn't just you.

 

But I see a number of misunderstandings in your post. I'll try to address them one at a time:

 

My husband and I have been at the cache's location 3x to obtain accurate coordinates. With the exception of my coordinates entered for review a few days ago,
While it is commendable that you have invested extra effort in obtaining accurate coordinates, that really is a separate issue from the saturation conflicts with existing caches. The only thing that can resolve saturation conflicts is moving your cache (and then taking new coordinates for its new location).

 

all other nearby caches were well over 528 feet away per the official Geocaching app - and I made sure we opened > reopened the app to see that it would still find us on the map > measure that other caches were 528+ feet away.
Are you using Groundspeak's free Geocaching app? If so, then it will show only traditional caches. Since your cache apparently conflicts with a multi-cache, the free app won't help you.

 

FINALLY my coords are correct, but yet again, I am still too close to an existing cache. I explained to the reviewer aforementioned - he/she inquired if I had multi's "filtered" - I didn't, I don't, and I can't.
Again, if you're using the free app, then you do effectively have non-traditional caches filtered out. But even if your app shows you multi-caches, mystery/puzzle caches, and other non-traditional caches, that probably wouldn't help. You're probably conflicting with the hidden coordinates of a stage of a multi-cache, not with the posted coordinates that would be visible in the app (and which can be miles away).

 

Perhaps due to a non-premium membership?
There can be a similar issue with saturation and Premium Member Only (PMO) caches, but that's a separate issue, really. You can become a premium member and then see the coordinates for a PMO cache. The only way to see the coordinates for a multi-cache or a mystery/puzzle cache is to actually do the cache, and to record the coordinates.

 

I read through the Fundamental Placement Guide which he/she linked me to. It states, quote, "Non-physical caches or stages, including reference points, trail-head/parking coordinates and/or a virtual stage waypoints, are exempt from this guideline. Additionally, within a single multi-cache or mystery/puzzle cache, there is no minimum required distance between physical elements."
The bold sentence doesn't affect the saturation conflict between your cache and the multi-cache. It just means that the owner of the multi-cache can put the different stages of that multi-cache closer than 528ft/161m from each other. (I've even found multi-caches where I could touch one stage with one hand while touching the next stage with the other.) But no matter how close the stages of that multi-cache are to each other, they still have to be 528ft/161m from the stages of any other caches.

 

The cache I am too close to is a multi. If it is x-amount feet away from a non-physical stage, wouldn't this make my cache exempt from the distance guideline > publishable?
The volunteer reviewer wouldn't have raised the issue if the stages of the multi-cache were non-physical stages. Your cache almost certainly conflicts with a physical stage of the multi-cache.

 

Also, this Help Center article may be useful:

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=199

 

Note the information at the end about working with the volunteer reviewers.

 

Oh, and welcome to geocaching!

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Cache has been published, with my apologies. It was pointed out that the multi had a virtual start so the proximity issue was moot.

 

Any insight or clarification is greatly appreciated before I plead my case to the reviewer (a bit scared - think they're starting to get ticked).

Not ticked at all. You've given me timely respectful responses; that's all I can ask for on my side. I would rather publish than say no but I have to follow the guidelines.

 

 

Are you using Groundspeak's free Geocaching app? If so, then it will show only traditional caches. Since your cache apparently conflicts with a multi-cache, the free app won't help you.[/Quote]

Good question. I was wondering this myself. I suggested something was being filtered and that would make some sense.

 

 

Idea number 2: ask the reviewer whether they can give you a nudge about which direction you could move to place a cache.

Well, since it was the posted coordinates I gave her the name of the cache, the GCcode as well as the distance to the coordinates. Even when it is a hidden waypoint, I give the GCcode and name. This allows the cacher to know which is the problem and do the cache.

 

Anything more would give them an unfair advantage; maybe allowing them to ignore the puzzle/earlier stages.

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Cache has been published, with my apologies. It was pointed out that the multi had a virtual start so the proximity issue was moot.

Yeah, I was thinking of mentioning this problem. Sounds like you overlooked it (no big deal, of course), but the case I had the CO had accidentally marked a virtual stage as being physical. Fortunately I was familiar with the multi, so I could point that out to both the reviewer and the multi's CO.

 

Well, since it was the posted coordinates I gave her the name of the cache, the GCcode as well as the distance to the coordinates. Even when it is a hidden waypoint, I give the GCcode and name. This allows the cacher to know which is the problem and do the cache.

My reviewer does this, too, and that information is always much appreciate. In my case, it was also quite annoying, not because the reviewer gave me this precious information but because of the conflict it revealed. I've almost cleared out my town, with only a few unsolved puzzles. So, naturally, I've conflicted twice with unsolved puzzles where the puzzles' listed coordinates were no where near where I was trying to hide a cache. But it spurred me to finally go solve those puzzles!

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Thank you, everyone! And to OReviewer for working with me on getting my cache published. (As a side note: he/she never actually expressed they were frustrated/"ticked" with our back-and-forth, rather, I was making an assumption > fearful he/she may become irritated because I personally felt I was flooding them with asinine questions and realize it's peak cache season. Throughout the process he/she was extremely helpful and DID aid in providing me with as much information as possible.) Will be sure to dot every i and cross every t when or if I hide another cache. Bookmarking this thread for reference ;)

 

To those asking if I use the FREE Geocaching app - yes.

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amuse-Goose Glad this one was published. Just wanted to point out that sometimes you might hide one that looks free and clear and will be blocked. I just look at it as part of the game. Don't let is discourage you if it does happen. We have found over 3000 caches and have hidden over 150 and have premium membership and still run into problems sometimes. There are some caches and other problems that no matter how careful you are with the hide you can't always see.

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