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FIND taken away unfairly?


Danielphunt

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I'm new so I want to defer to some of the seasoned pros about this.

 

I found a cache and logged the find but the owner deleted my comment and my credit for the find.

I visited this very difficult cache and on the second try after an hour all total, we finally found it!

So I went home to log my find. This is the note/comment I left:

 

Second visit and finally found it this time.

To be honest the coordinates are off by a whole lot. And I don't see how the hint or the "poem clue" have anything to do with the cache or where we found it. There's something about it being delicate? Being used to fight and defend? When we found it it was so out of the way and unrelated to any of the clues we honestly thought we had found ANOTHER cache.

Signed the log. TNLN

 

The cache owner replied to me by saying they didn't know what was so difficult to understand. The clues are very straight forward. They also said that they purposefully made the coordinates off. They ended it by saying "you must have found someones elses cache". Then deleted my comment and took away my find.

 

There's just no way I found another cache. There are no other caches anywhere near this one let alone within 100 feet and the owner knows this. Not to mention I signed the log book with my username.

The cache owner took the find away because they were upset at the negative things I said. But I think what I said is valid.

And probably most importantly the owner admits to purposefully making the coordinates off to make it harder to find. Is that even within guidelines?? The cache was literally 75-100 feet away from where the GPS was telling us. Myself and my group are all newbies but this just doesn't seem right.

 

I am not someone who cares about collecting FINDS. It's not something that's usually important to me but this particular cache is literally a 5 minute walk from my house. It's just bugging me that I can't have that smiley face on the map so close to me! Lol

 

Four days ago I sent the cache owner another message saying that I think it's unfair (basically what this post says) but I haven't heard from them.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this. Is there an etiquette that being a newbie I've missed? Was I too harsh? I want to do the right thing but I just feel like the cache owner is not being very fair.

 

Thanks

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I'm new so I want to defer to some of the seasoned pros about this.

 

I found a cache and logged the find but the owner deleted my comment and my credit for the find.

I visited this very difficult cache and on the second try after an hour all total, we finally found it!

So I went home to log my find. This is the note/comment I left:

 

Second visit and finally found it this time.

To be honest the coordinates are off by a whole lot. And I don't see how the hint or the "poem clue" have anything to do with the cache or where we found it. There's something about it being delicate? Being used to fight and defend? When we found it it was so out of the way and unrelated to any of the clues we honestly thought we had found ANOTHER cache.

Signed the log. TNLN

 

The cache owner replied to me by saying they didn't know what was so difficult to understand. The clues are very straight forward. They also said that they purposefully made the coordinates off. They ended it by saying "you must have found someones elses cache". Then deleted my comment and took away my find.

 

There's just no way I found another cache. There are no other caches anywhere near this one let alone within 100 feet and the owner knows this. Not to mention I signed the log book with my username.

The cache owner took the find away because they were upset at the negative things I said. But I think what I said is valid.

And probably most importantly the owner admits to purposefully making the coordinates off to make it harder to find. Is that even within guidelines?? The cache was literally 75-100 feet away from where the GPS was telling us. Myself and my group are all newbies but this just doesn't seem right.

 

I am not someone who cares about collecting FINDS. It's not something that's usually important to me but this particular cache is literally a 5 minute walk from my house. It's just bugging me that I can't have that smiley face on the map so close to me! Lol

 

Four days ago I sent the cache owner another message saying that I think it's unfair (basically what this post says) but I haven't heard from them.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this. Is there an etiquette that being a newbie I've missed? Was I too harsh? I want to do the right thing but I just feel like the cache owner is not being very fair.

 

Thanks

 

Create a new "Found it" log. Keep it brief and avoid making public judgments of the cache. Someone like that deserves a "TFTC" log.

If they delete that, take it up with Groundspeak. If you signed the log, you earned the smilie.

 

Also...keep the email they sent you. Unless it's a mystery cache or an offset where it's stated on the page that the cache is not at the posted coordinates, they need to correct it if it's intentionally off. 20 to 30 is borderline...but if they put it 100 feet away from the posted coordinates on purpose without stating that in the description, it's not a traditional cache.

Edited by J Grouchy
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Create a new "Found it" log. Keep it brief and avoid making public judgments of the cache. Someone like that deserves a "TFTC" log.

If they delete that, take it up with Groundspeak. If you signed the log, you earned the smilie.

 

Also...keep the email they sent you. Unless it's a mystery cache or an offset where it's stated on the page that the cache is not at the posted coordinates, they need to correct it if it's intentionally off. 20 to 30 is borderline...but if they put it 100 feet away from the posted coordinates on purpose without stating that in the description, it's not a traditional cache.

 

I was going to just post a new "found it log" but I thought they would just delete me again. That's why I sent them a message explaining myself first. I was just going to straight up ask them if I repost and keep my comments to myself will they please not delete it.

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Relog your find without any mention of the clue, but leave in the coordinates are way off bit.

 

If he continues to delete your find, contact tptb to help resolve the issue.

 

With sbell on this one. Just because you did not undestand the clue does not mean they are worthless. I often have come across clues that meant nothing to me. I am more concerned about the coords intentionally being off. In fact, if exactly what you said had happened to me, I'd be darned tempted to enter an NA log on an admitted intentional guidelines violation. But that could easily start a cacher war so it is not a step to be taken lightly in this case.

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I'm new so I want to defer to some of the seasoned pros about this.

 

I found a cache and logged the find but the owner deleted my comment and my credit for the find.

I visited this very difficult cache and on the second try after an hour all total, we finally found it!

So I went home to log my find. This is the note/comment I left:

 

Second visit and finally found it this time.

To be honest the coordinates are off by a whole lot. And I don't see how the hint or the "poem clue" have anything to do with the cache or where we found it. There's something about it being delicate? Being used to fight and defend? When we found it it was so out of the way and unrelated to any of the clues we honestly thought we had found ANOTHER cache.

Signed the log. TNLN

 

The cache owner replied to me by saying they didn't know what was so difficult to understand. The clues are very straight forward. They also said that they purposefully made the coordinates off. They ended it by saying "you must have found someones elses cache". Then deleted my comment and took away my find.

 

There sure is a serious breach of "etiquette" here, but it's not you, it's them. First, it is just plain wrong for them to deliberately list inaccurate coordinates. Also, unless there's something about what you wrote that is clearly a spoiler for another seeker, they were wrong to delete your Find. It doesn't seem to me that your comments constitute a spoiler, but I'm not on scene to be really able to judge that.

 

Relog your find, deleting everything except the first sentence--or maybe the first two. Have other finders mentioned the bad coordinates?

There's just no way I found another cache. There are no other caches anywhere near this one let alone within 100 feet and the owner knows this. Not to mention I signed the log book with my username.

The cache owner took the find away because they were upset at the negative things I said. But I think what I said is valid.

And probably most importantly the owner admits to purposefully making the coordinates off to make it harder to find. Is that even within guidelines?? The cache was literally 75-100 feet away from where the GPS was telling us. Myself and my group are all newbies but this just doesn't seem right.

 

I am not someone who cares about collecting FINDS. It's not something that's usually important to me but this particular cache is literally a 5 minute walk from my house. It's just bugging me that I can't have that smiley face on the map so close to me! Lol

 

Four days ago I sent the cache owner another message saying that I think it's unfair (basically what this post says) but I haven't heard from them.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this. Is there an etiquette that being a newbie I've missed? Was I too harsh? I want to do the right thing but I just feel like the cache owner is not being very fair.

 

Thanks

 

Edited: Well, I wrote something, but it didn't post. Anyway, I'm with the re-log group, maybe use just the first sentence of your original log. The breach of "etiquette" is on them, not on you.

Edited by NanCycle
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Re-log it.

BUT. Keep it short and sweet.

 

IF the coordinates are so far off on purpose, any log with negativity is going to be deleted.

 

If that gets deleted, you could take it to Groundspeak...

Got a photo of the cache and your name in the log book? (Could help as proof of find, if you take it to GS)

 

Any deleted logs are readable by the lackeys, as is any email via the GS system.

Depends how far you want to take it.

(Could get nasty, AND the guy is probably a local... Remember, you could meet him in person!)

 

Any other logs mention the coordinates being off?

> They may have been deleted also!

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Relog your find without any mention of the clue, but leave in the coordinates are way off bit.

 

If he continues to delete your find, contact tptb to help resolve the issue.

 

With sbell on this one. Just because you did not undestand the clue does not mean they are worthless. I often have come across clues that meant nothing to me. I am more concerned about the coords intentionally being off. In fact, if exactly what you said had happened to me, I'd be darned tempted to enter an NA log on an admitted intentional guidelines violation. But that could easily start a cacher war so it is not a step to be taken lightly in this case.

+1

I would add in coordinates if I had happend to record them. If I didn't record them, I may even just put in corrdinates using google maps. Guys like that need to be educated. Sad that often the only way to accomplish that is a harsh word from their reviewer.

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I would never report it and start a war over it. It's just not worth it.

 

It can be done.

 

Often better accomplished by an email to the reviewer.

Log the find, let the dust settle.

 

Then think about contacting the reviewer.

 

(It could well be that any previous logs about coordinates have also been deleted. May be worth putting the cache on your watchlist. You will get all logs as they are posted, and will see if they get deleted.)

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Hmm... I have not had a lot of logs deleted. I do tend to say what I think, which some cache owners do not like.

"Parking lot of a porn store is not a great place for a cache." Deleted. Relogged "TFTC."

"Lot of garbage, and the coords seemed off." Deleted. Relogged. CO encrypted the log. I decrypted it!

I've had one or two where TPTB reinstated and locked my log. They will do that if you cannot work it out with the CO.

If the coords are deliberately off, I would keep that info in my relog. If it gets deleted a second time, I would go to geocaching to have it reinstated. And then (being a grumpy dolphin) I would as NA for the coords being deliberately off! That's just hasty, and a guidelines violation. (Hope you kept the e-mail from the CO.)

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From what I can see it seems to me to be mostly confusion and that both you and the CO are trying to do things right (although purposely posting inaccurate co-ords should definitely not be done).

 

It is possible that you have found another cache. Maybe one that was there, has been archived but not removed? (The final location of a multi or puzzle cache would also be possible but you don't look to have many of those around your area and that would also be breaking the minimum distance rule as well.)

 

You could think about sending the CO a message describing the container that you found to ask if it sounds correct.

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Just because you did not undestand the clue does not mean they are worthless.

This is a good point. This case is an example of why I always make sure my log sticks to what I actually know and avoids any opinions: what I know is that I didn't understand the clues. My failure to understand them tells me nothing about their value. (This is similar to DNFs: what I know is that I didn't find a cache, but I don't know whether it's missing so I never say it is.)

 

Similarly, I know that my GPSr didn't take me to the cache. In this case, particularly with the CO admitting he intentionally put the wrong coordinates in in violation of the guidelines, I'd be a little more precise about where the cache was relative to where my GPSr took me in order to help other people get to the right place, but I'd still express it as if it were a problem with my GPSr and not with the coordinates. (I might be a little more overt about the coordinates being wrong if this were a newbie so my comments might help them improve the numbers.)

 

So that's what you could have done better the first time. And I will agree that the CO's actions were a little dubious. But now it's time to move forward, so generally just post a minimal log, although this case is severe enough that I'd still try to slip in a warning or two for other seekers without being explicitly critical. If my log was rejected a second time, then I'd just go with "TFTC". If that gets rejected, I'll just forget about it. With a CO like that, odds are the cache won't last very long.

 

By the way, although I agree with you that it sounds like you found the cache, there are any number of reasons you might find a unrelated container near a published cache. For example, it could be an old archived cache, or a cache listed somewhere else, perhaps as a letterbox. If there's no ID on the cache or the log, that's another strike against this one.

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For the record, there has never been another cache listed on Geocaching.com within .1 miles of the cache under discussion. That includes hidden, recorded stages of multicaches, puzzle caches, etc., and it includes caches now archived and caches never published.

 

If this cache was in my review territory, and I became aware of the issue, I would temporarily disable the listing until the cache owner corrected the coordinates. As of today the cache does not meet the definition of a "Traditional Cache."

Edited by Keystone
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Love the quote. I am some what of a NuB. I use GarminGPSmapsc

How would I log coordinates like those above into my GPS.Right now I download and go. But if I wanted to go to specific place like a puzzle cache where just numbers are left for me???

 

Thank you

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The chords are a little off on purpose but not that far off.

 

Hmmmm....I'd say that a smidge over a "little":

 

N42 07.189 W071 02.819 299 ft

N42 07.233 W071 02.849

 

The log entry I read gave the ...189, ...819 as a suggested parking place, not corrected cache coordinates.

 

Thanks. My mistake. I misread the log entry.

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