Is this So Bad?

August 1, 2014

Hello everyone, we are new to geocaching, and really enjoying it so far. Starting to get used to how it all works and keen to not do things wrong.

My question is really regarding the 'be discreet around muggles' aspect of it all. Let me first of all say I totally understand why this is important generally speaking, but am wondering if what we did was really so wrong...

We've only been geocaching for a week or so, and our kids in particular are really loving it. Last week we went down to the seafront and found an excellent trail of geocaches with our kids and six of their friends. They completely loved it and we had a lovely afternoon of walking along the seafront 'treasure hunting' where the kids walked around five miles and were really enthusiastic - can't be a bad thing, right? The problem is, that there were a few instances where all the kids descended on a location and started looking for the cache with such vigour that there was really no way we could be discreet. One poor couple were pretty much ousted from their bench so the kids could ferret around looking for the cache, and of course they wanted to know what was going on. We explained and they thought it was fantastic and joined in the hunt. This sort of thing happened along the route - it is impossible to be subtle with a group of eight children ages 5-8.

So my question is, was this a real breach of the 'rules'? Did we do it wrong, or was it okay because we got other people interested?

Apologies for long-windedness, have had a bit too much wine!

2.4k · August 1, 2014

Life is never perfect. Neither is geocaching. :laughing:

You did well. Explaining to those around what you're doing is fine, especially when the kids have forgotten their invisibility and soundproof cloaks. Much better to explain to those around than to leave them wondering!

I've given up on stealth, for the most part. If there's someone around, we'll explain what we're doing so they don't think we're nuts, or so that they don't call in the bomb squad if they see us "plant" a "package."

3.3k · August 2, 2014

Hello everyone, we are new to geocaching, and really enjoying it so far. Starting to get used to how it all works and keen to not do things wrong.

My question is really regarding the 'be discreet around muggles' aspect of it all. Let me first of all say I totally understand why this is important generally speaking, but am wondering if what we did was really so wrong...

We've only been geocaching for a week or so, and our kids in particular are really loving it. Last week we went down to the seafront and found an excellent trail of geocaches with our kids and six of their friends. They completely loved it and we had a lovely afternoon of walking along the seafront 'treasure hunting' where the kids walked around five miles and were really enthusiastic - can't be a bad thing, right? The problem is, that there were a few instances where all the kids descended on a location and started looking for the cache with such vigour that there was really no way we could be discreet. One poor couple were pretty much ousted from their bench so the kids could ferret around looking for the cache, and of course they wanted to know what was going on. We explained and they thought it was fantastic and joined in the hunt. This sort of thing happened along the route - it is impossible to be subtle with a group of eight children ages 5-8.

So my question is, was this a real breach of the 'rules'? Did we do it wrong, or was it okay because we got other people interested?

Apologies for long-windedness, have had a bit too much wine!

I second the other comments. And since your typing is still quite good, feel free to have another glass of wine!

Sometimes kids add to stealth because their searching is seen as play and no one gives it a second thought. Maybe with a rowdy group a less busy caching location is best.

3.7k · August 2, 2014

Cache owners, to a certain extent, must accept this sort of thing, if they chose to place their caches in high muggle zones.

I agree, it's pretty much impossible to be discrete with kids. I've taken groups of kids and adults out many times. However, there are some things you can do. You can pick less busy times to go. You can pick less busy areas. It's also Ok to explain things to muggles. Most people will be OK to show the cache, however, if you get to GZ and there's a bunch of teenagers standing nearby, it might be best to skip that cache.

The one thing you do not want to do with kids is to take them to caches which are within walking distance of their home/school. If you do this, they are bound to show all their friends who may steal/vandalize the caches.

7.5k · August 2, 2014

No matter what anyone's told you, there's no rule about introducing strangers to geocaching. There is a rule about not being rule -- that's not a geocaching specific rule -- and it sounds like the kids were on the verge of that one, but that's a teachable moment, and it sounds like you handled it fine. Yeah, they need to know not to rudely force there way into someone else's space, but they also need to learn that it's OK to play games and encourage others to join in the fun.

The important thing is not to put any caches at risk? Did that happen? If so, it might be time for a lesson in stealth, but from what I've seen, most kids think being sneaky is a fun game, too.

15.3k · August 2, 2014

One thing that I've seen help kids learn the lesson of discretion while searching for geocaches is to play huckle buckle beanstalk style rather than three musketeers style. The idea is to avoid spoiling the hunt for other players who haven't found it yet. In the process, it helps them be more discreet about the hunt in general.

2.4k · August 2, 2014

It's important to respect peoples space. Searching for a cache underneath a park bench with people sitting on it is probably not a good idea. I would have moved on to the next cache and came back later. Being discrete is important but taking the opportunity to introduce geocaching to non-cachers is a good thing to. Remember being discrete is more about keeping the cache safe and hidden so that it doesn't get removed or destroyed by muggles.

2.6k · August 2, 2014

It's important to respect peoples space. Searching for a cache underneath a park bench with people sitting on it is probably not a good idea. I would have moved on to the next cache and came back later.

+1....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next. Group caching may be fun but as a CO get ready for extra maint., esp. if kids are involved. In the old days caching was more a " cloak and dagger " affair ......I kind of miss those days.

August 2, 2014

It's important to respect peoples space. Searching for a cache underneath a park bench with people sitting on it is probably not a good idea. I would have moved on to the next cache and came back later. Being discrete is important but taking the opportunity to introduce geocaching to non-cachers is a good thing to. Remember being discrete is more about keeping the cache safe and hidden so that it doesn't get removed or destroyed by muggles.

Agree.

This time it was a couple that responded well, but what if it was a couple of teenagers that hang out at that spot regularly? Your group of little kids wouldn't know the difference, but you can be sure the cache would have been trashed or gone after your group left.

So if it is really impossible to be subtle with a group of eight children ages 5-8 (=teach them not to search when other people can see them), do something else with this group or make your own one-time-cache series/route.

2.6k · August 2, 2014

It's important to respect peoples space. Searching for a cache underneath a park bench with people sitting on it is probably not a good idea. I would have moved on to the next cache and came back later. Being discrete is important but taking the opportunity to introduce geocaching to non-cachers is a good thing to. Remember being discrete is more about keeping the cache safe and hidden so that it doesn't get removed or destroyed by muggles.

Agree.

(=teach them not to search when other people can see them), do something else with this group or make your own one-time-cache series/route.

This is what I've done when I've gone to teach schoolchildren geocaching. We go through everything we can in the classroom and then go and find the caches I've placed just for the training session. I also had an entire 3 rd grade class visit one of my real caches but I was there at the time....their teacher also had about a dozen co-ords to non caching sites that the children had to find.

7.5k · August 3, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves? I walked up to one bench cache and there was a group of four 20-somthings chatting, one of them sitting on the bench right over the cache breastfeeding a baby. I walked up and said, "Excuse me, but do you mind if I look under your butt for a geocache?" Then I showed them the cache and talked about geocaching with them. Dunno if any of them took up geocaching, but at least they all learned it was a harmless game and would know better than to take a geocache if they happened to find one.

2.6k · August 3, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves? I walked up to one bench cache and there was a group of four 20-somthings chatting, one of them sitting on the bench right over the cache breastfeeding a baby. I walked up and said, "Excuse me, but do you mind if I look under your butt for a geocache?" Then I showed them the cache and talked about geocaching with them. Dunno if any of them took up geocaching, but at least they all learned it was a harmless game and would know better than to take a geocache if they happened to find one.

I'm not saying I've never done this but it is rare. In general I think its bad form to reveal the location of a geocache to a muggle........always has been.

7.5k · August 3, 2014

I'm not saying I've never done this but it is rare. In general I think its bad form to reveal the location of a geocache to a muggle........always has been.

My guess is that this secret society attitude puts way more caches at risk than explaining geocaching and showing a cache to a muggle.

3.3k · August 3, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves? I walked up to one bench cache and there was a group of four 20-somthings chatting, one of them sitting on the bench right over the cache breastfeeding a baby. I walked up and said, "Excuse me, but do you mind if I look under your butt for a geocache?" Then I showed them the cache and talked about geocaching with them. Dunno if any of them took up geocaching, but at least they all learned it was a harmless game and would know better than to take a geocache if they happened to find one.

I'm not saying I've never done this but it is rare. In general I think its bad form to reveal the location of a geocache to a muggle........always has been.

I agree with BAM. First, how can you be sure that these people you've never met will respect the cache? (We all make quick character assessments but why assume we're right and unnecessarily put the cache at risk? Second, the people you tell may be careless about who they tell, & pretty soon the cache is stolen. If GZ has muggles, I leave.

3.7k · August 3, 2014

I agree. It really depends on the muggle. Sometimes it's OK to tell, sometimes not. I remember one time when I was doing cache maintenance and the cache was under a staircase. 2 women came up the stairs and I'm afraid me being under the staircase startled them. So I explained to them what I was doing and showed them the cache. They said they knew some 'youths' who would be interested. It wasn't too long after that the cache disappeared (a cache which had been muggle-free for years).

Edited August 3, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

3.7k · August 3, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves? I walked up to one bench cache and there was a group of four 20-somthings chatting, one of them sitting on the bench right over the cache breastfeeding a baby. I walked up and said, "Excuse me, but do you mind if I look under your butt for a geocache?" Then I showed them the cache and talked about geocaching with them. Dunno if any of them took up geocaching, but at least they all learned it was a harmless game and would know better than to take a geocache if they happened to find one.

If it was me, I probably would have come back later when the bench was empty. What if the cache was missing? Then you would have looked like a creep.

Edited August 3, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

August 3, 2014

I'm not saying I've never done this but it is rare. In general I think its bad form to reveal the location of a geocache to a muggle........always has been.

My guess is that this secret society attitude puts way more caches at risk than explaining geocaching and showing a cache to a muggle.

Why? Of course if you're caught by a muggle its better to explain what you are doing, but in any other case it's my opinion to wait till nobody is around before searching for a cache.

On one of my caches a pretty new cacher (mother with son) explained in her log how their were some youngsters hanging out near the cache. They explained to them what they were searching for and then they all joined in to search the cache and of course they all like the game and it was a lot of fun for everyone, according to the log...

A week later I checked up on that caches, lots of pages of the logbook were full of little drawings and lots of words that are not suitable to copy here. I changed the logbook, but a few months later I got a disturbing needs maintenance note. I don't know what it once was, maybe a sandwich or something like that, but it went bad and I had to throw away the cache (and archive it).

13.7k · August 3, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves? I walked up to one bench cache and there was a group of four 20-somthings chatting, one of them sitting on the bench right over the cache breastfeeding a baby. I walked up and said, "Excuse me, but do you mind if I look under your butt for a geocache?" Then I showed them the cache and talked about geocaching with them. Dunno if any of them took up geocaching, but at least they all learned it was a harmless game and would know better than to take a geocache if they happened to find one.

If it was me, I probably would have come back later when the bench was empty. What if the cache was missing? Then you would have looked like a creep.

+1

Too late.

Approaching a woman and asking about "looking under her butt" while she's breast feeding , kinda fit that already.

The cache could wait...

August 3, 2014

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, much appreciated. I have to say, the kids didn't cross over into rudeness, they were just enthusiastic. I think most people we spoke to just thought it was great that a group of kids were loving doing something outdoors that made them think a bit.

August 4, 2014

we never go to a cache that has people around it, if someone turns up out of the blue and we get snapped then we will explain what we are doing, but my son (10) knows how to act when grabbing or looking for a cache, as I would be gutted if someone ruined my cache by not taking care around muggles

2.2k · August 7, 2014

....even if I were by myself I wouldn't look where people are sitting....good grief.....just move on to the next.

Why are people so reluctant to introduce themselves?

For me it's because I got sick of explaining caching to people. When I'm with people who don't know about caching I'll simply refer to "going for a hike" or "out for a walk" but never "I was out Geocaching."

August 11, 2014

While searching for a geocache I take responsibility of it being not muggled because of my actions. If my kids are with me I take responsibility for their behaviour too. So, I never had an idea of explaining the game to any muggle that I meet while searching for a cache simply because I cannot be responsible for what he/she will do after I leave, who else will know about the cache, etc. I'm simply putting the cache at risk and go away. Approaching a muggle on a bench and asking "please let me search here, I'm looking for a geocaching container"? I believe this would be a disrespectful action against the CO and the following hunters.

I agree however that with kids of that age it's almost impossible to control their emotions so I would just choose quiter locations and hours.

Edited August 11, 2014 by -CJ-

3.3k · August 11, 2014

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, much appreciated. I have to say, the kids didn't cross over into rudeness, they were just enthusiastic. I think most people we spoke to just thought it was great that a group of kids were loving doing something outdoors that made them think a bit.

So because of the kids' enthusiasm, I see two precautions:

- tell the kids ahead of time that if people are near GZ we go to the next one

- select caches that are less likely to have people around (avoid "stealth required" caches)

1.5k · August 11, 2014

...all the kids descended on a location and started looking for the cache with such vigour that there was really no way we could be discreet.

This is the kind of thing that I hope will happen when I hide a cache. I love that. Let 'em run!

Is this So Bad?

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