New Cache Near Archived

[DaNerdling]

Probably a stupid question but I can't seem to find any info on the subject. I have an idea for a cache but it's in the same location as one I previously found (and really enjoyed) but has since been archived. Am I able to place a new cache in it's place (with permission from the original owner of course) or is this spot now a dead zone?

[+lee737]

You don't need the previous COs permission to do anything, place a new cache if you want to - just make sure no other mysteries etc have popped up nearby....

[DaNerdling]

You don't need the previous COs permission to do anything, place a new cache if you want to - just make sure no other mysteries etc have popped up nearby....

I was mainly going to do this out of a courtesy as part of the previous cache still remains at the location and I was planning to repurpose it. But this is good to know, as I really enjoyed the cache and wanted to keep it alive for future cachers.

[+lee737]

Depending on how long ago it was archived and in what circumstance, if the owner is active, and what condition the remains are in, I would either message the owner, and ask them what they want me to do with the old cache remains, or just remove them altogether (dons flameproof suit) and place my own....

[DaNerdling]

Depending on how long ago it was archived and in what circumstance, if the owner is active, and what condition the remains are in, I would either message the owner, and ask them what they want me to do with the old cache remains, or just remove them altogether (dons flameproof suit) and place my own....

Well see part of the fun of the old cache was it was a pun based on the item in question and the container was removed but the item remains, so I wanted to leave it alone (albeit give it a new paint job) and add my own spin to it. But I'm glad to know I can list a new and improved version of the old cache. I'll probably still contact the original CO anyways (who is still active by the way) as a courtesy. Thanks for the feedback

[+hzoi]

I get that you want things to be a surprise and are keeping things vague, but from what you write, there are a couple potential red flags. I'm not a reviewer, so you can take these or leave 'em.

 

part of the previous cache still remains at the location and I was planning to repurpose it

 

If you're reusing something the CO left out, yes, best to talk to them in case they had plans to reclaim their property.

 

Depending on how long ago it was archived and in what circumstance

 

Additionally, if the CO archived this because of inadequate permission or because of excessive muggle activity, putting a new cache there might not be ideal.

 

I wanted to leave it alone (albeit give it a new paint job) and add my own spin to it.

 

Just make sure you know who owns it (unless it's abandoned property, someone likely owns it) and they they are OK with your paint job. Whatever your intentions, adding unwanted paint to something could be seen as vandalism.

[+J Grouchy]

I repurposed a CO-archived cache once. The CO never picked it up and six months later I figured they probably never would. I even sent a message the CO never responded to, so I felt it was fair game. I kept the cache within about 100 feet of the original hiding spot...even credited the original cache. Almost two years later I still haven't heard a peep from the original CO.

[+justintim1999]

Depending on how long ago it was archived and in what circumstance, if the owner is active, and what condition the remains are in, I would either message the owner, and ask them what they want me to do with the old cache remains, or just remove them altogether (dons flameproof suit) and place my own....

Well see part of the fun of the old cache was it was a pun based on the item in question and the container was removed but the item remains, so I wanted to leave it alone (albeit give it a new paint job) and add my own spin to it. But I'm glad to know I can list a new and improved version of the old cache. I'll probably still contact the original CO anyways (who is still active by the way) as a courtesy. Thanks for the feedback

 

If you do contact them you may want to find out who owns the property and who they spoke to regarding permission. It's always good to know the land owners/managers.

[DaNerdling]

I get that you want things to be a surprise and are keeping things vague, but from what you write, there are a couple potential red flags. I'm not a reviewer, so you can take these or leave 'em.

I'm guessing no one responding here will ever find it so in the spirit of clearing things up, it's an old rusted axle off of a car inside of a tree, the name of the cache was "Axle Rose", which I thought was very clever.

 

If you're reusing something the CO left out, yes, best to talk to them in case they had plans to reclaim their property.

The actual container was attached to the axle and they removed it but left the axle, so I'm guessing they no longer want it. But I had every intention of contacting them first on the off chance they did.

 

Additionally, if the CO archived this because of inadequate permission or because of excessive muggle activity, putting a new cache there might not be ideal.

From their log on the archived posting they claim it's because it was part of a series that was only placed for an event, and other entries in the series kept going missing, so they archived the whole series. They did this about 5 months ago.

 

Just make sure you know who owns it (unless it's abandoned property, someone likely owns it) and they they are OK with your paint job. Whatever your intentions, adding unwanted paint to something could be seen as vandalism.

The reason I said this is because it is rusty and the "Rose" part of "Axle Rose" was never implemented on the original, so I was going to paint it pink (rose, get it?). But again, I will definitely contact the original CO before doing any of this anyways so I doubt there will be an issue. I just wasn't sure if reusing an old location was allowed but it seems it is. I really appreciate your concern though

Edited January 13, 2017 by DaNerdling

[+hzoi]

OK, cool. Sounds like you have things well in hand. Good luck with the cache!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

The reason I said this is because it is rusty and the "Rose" part of "Axle Rose" was never implemented on the original, so I was going to paint it pink (rose, get it?). But again, I will definitely contact the original CO before doing any of this anyways so I doubt there will be an issue. I just wasn't sure if reusing an old location was allowed but it seems it is. I really appreciate your concern though

 

Everything looked find until this. If you don't own the axle, or have permission from the owner to paint, painting it pink would violate the following guideline:

 

Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.

 

Maybe you could find a plastic rose, and attach the container to the stem of the rose, then stick it into a hole of the axle.

 

 

 

[DaNerdling]

 

Everything looked find until this. If you don't own the axle, or have permission from the owner to paint, painting it pink would violate the following guideline:

 

Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.

 

Maybe you could find a plastic rose, and attach the container to the stem of the rose, then stick it into a hole of the axle.

I fail to see how an abandoned rusty axle, which to my knowledge is not formed in nature and has no reason to be in that tree (which is also on public land, I checked) for any other purpose than as a Geocache, constitutes "damag[ing] or alter[ing]" property. Not to mention I found the cache while it was active and it clearly had a container attached to it, and upon returning to the tree, the container was now gone but the axle remained. This leads me to believe the CO's no longer wanted it. I am going to ask permission from them to re purpose it anyways, and unless it slipped their mind to reclaim an old car part which has been exposed to the elements for years to then use on their probably modern vehicle, I think it's safe to call it abandoned property. And on the off chance they do still want it for whatever reason, I'm sure they will tell me this when/if I decide to start the project.

 

Anyways my initial question was asked and answered, I've determined it is okay for me to put a new cache here and knowing the CO's as I do, I don't believe they will have any issue with me reusing a rusty old axle for my own purpose, which is to leave it in the exact same tree they left it in, and making it look pretty. I appreciate the concern though.

[+Sherminator18]

 

Everything looked find until this. If you don't own the axle, or have permission from the owner to paint, painting it pink would violate the following guideline:

 

Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.

 

Maybe you could find a plastic rose, and attach the container to the stem of the rose, then stick it into a hole of the axle.

I fail to see how an abandoned rusty axle, which to my knowledge is not formed in nature and has no reason to be in that tree (which is also on public land, I checked) for any other purpose than as a Geocache, constitutes "damag[ing] or alter[ing]" property. Not to mention I found the cache while it was active and it clearly had a container attached to it, and upon returning to the tree, the container was now gone but the axle remained. This leads me to believe the CO's no longer wanted it. I am going to ask permission from them to re purpose it anyways, and unless it slipped their mind to reclaim an old car part which has been exposed to the elements for years to then use on their probably modern vehicle, I think it's safe to call it abandoned property. And on the off chance they do still want it for whatever reason, I'm sure they will tell me this when/if I decide to start the project.

 

Anyways my initial question was asked and answered, I've determined it is okay for me to put a new cache here and knowing the CO's as I do, I don't believe they will have any issue with me reusing a rusty old axle for my own purpose, which is to leave it in the exact same tree they left it in, and making it look pretty. I appreciate the concern though.

 

Since you would be painting it and it does not belong to you, then you would be altering someone else's property. Do you know if this axle even belonged to the CO of the previous cache that was there?

[+Koidream]

Organize a CiTo, remove all the leftovers and afterwards reuse them. No problem!

If a geocache gets archived, the co has to remove everything from the cache. That is one of the rulesi

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Organize a CiTo, remove all the leftovers and afterwards reuse them. No problem!

If a geocache gets archived, the co has to remove everything from the cache. That is one of the rulesi

 

Except for the pesky fact that the stuff still doesn't belong to you.

 

It doesn't matter whether it's a current listing on Groundspeak's website or not. If you don't own or manage the land, you can't legally take and reuse what you think is an old cache.

[+The A-Team]

If a geocache gets archived, the co has to remove everything from the cache. That is one of the rulesi

The CO only needs to remove it if they no longer wish to have the cache there anymore. Geocaching is not exclusive to geocaching.com, so ending its listing on this site isn't necessarily the end of the cache. If an owner wants the cache to continue to be listed on a different listing site, or keep it going as a private cache, they can certainly do so.

 

Unless you've been given any indication to the contrary, always assume that the cache remains the property of the CO.

[+lee737]

The problem being, that in the vast majority of these caches, the cache is actually abandoned trash. The CO no longer participating in the activity, nor taking an interest in their 'property', which generally is a very old, broken, wet, moldy lunchbox with some equally trashy paper/trinkets inside. If it is a non-functional cache worthy of replacing, remove it, contact the CO, then bin it when they inevitably don't reply.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

The problem being, that in the vast majority of these caches, the cache is actually abandoned trash. The CO no longer participating in the activity, nor taking an interest in their 'property', which generally is a very old, broken, wet, moldy lunchbox with some equally trashy paper/trinkets inside. If it is a non-functional cache worthy of replacing, remove it, contact the CO, then bin it when they inevitably don't reply.

 

Maybe there's a case for that if it's clearly trash like a rusty, broken lunchbox, but the person to whom I replied clearly said to take and reuse someone else's property.

 

If you're throwing it away, then at least there's good intention. If you're reusing it, that's theft.