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rangercarol

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I am getting ready to teach an introductory class about geocaching to a group of retirees. While preparing an exercise for the students, I discovered that the new smartphone app limits searches to caches rated 1 1/2 difficulty and terrain. I see nothing on the website describing this limit. The original app limited searches to the same standard as the website; you could search for everything except premium caches.

 

How am I supposed to drum up interest in geocaching when the newbies can only see three of the 40+ nearby caches? These people are expecting to use their smartphone and will not start like I did; printing descriptions from the website and using a hand-held GPS to look for caches. They also will not start our by signing up for premium memberships before they decide whether they like geocaching.

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How am I supposed to drum up interest in geocaching when the newbies can only see three of the 40+ nearby caches? These people are expecting to use their smartphone and will not start like I did; printing descriptions from the website and using a hand-held GPS to look for caches.

Often a Geocaching 101 course provides a couple of GPSrs (and phones) already set up with some waypoints, for the students to use. For introductory purposes, these are demonstration caches in close proximity near the classroom. The workings of particular Apps (or GPSrs) are for another day. Don't rule out handheld GPSrs. “Retirees” may have a preference, and the ability to use any of a number of things. From the web site, they can load a wide range of caches onto a GPSr.

 

The Intro App selects caches that complete newcomers may easily find. If each participant is expected to load the Official Geocaching App and set up an account, three local caches might be enough to decide if they like Geocaching.

 

If everyone instead is to load 3rd-party Apps, each person must sign up and then take the further step of “verifying” their accounts. You'll spend a lot of class time setting up Apps and troubleshooting them. Is everyone using the same OS (Android, for example)? If not, various phones need suitable Apps, which will operate differently from each other.

Edited by kunarion
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Thanks for your show of interest. We are about to release a notice to our community announcing a proposed class. I think we might see about 10 attendees.

 

As a little background; our community had an introductory session about three years ago and now has four premium members and about six others that are members but have only reported between 10 and 50 caches. Most of those use the old app.

 

We have a lesson plan and will place three sizes of cache containers around the building for the attendees to find without having to navigate. We also have a simple traditional cache in the parking lot. After that it gets more difficult as the 40+ caches in the area cannot be found via the app unless you are a premium member.

 

I don't expect any of our attendees to own a sophisticated GPS nor do I want to address using a non-standard app. I also do not expect much interest in printing out cache descriptions, using a GPS to find the caches, and then logging them via the website.

 

We can take them to a local park and let them use two Iphones owned by premium members. The trick is going to be getting them interested enough to purchase a premium membership.

 

We are open to other ideas.

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I am getting ready to teach an introductory class about geocaching to a group of retirees. While preparing an exercise for the students, I discovered that the new smartphone app limits searches to caches rated 1 1/2 difficulty and terrain. I see nothing on the website describing this limit. The original app limited searches to the same standard as the website; you could search for everything except premium caches.

 

How am I supposed to drum up interest in geocaching when the newbies can only see three of the 40+ nearby caches? These people are expecting to use their smartphone and will not start like I did; printing descriptions from the website and using a hand-held GPS to look for caches. They also will not start our by signing up for premium memberships before they decide whether they like geocaching.

There's been many mentions here and in newsletters of this new app replacing both the old "Intro" app, and the "Paid" ($10) app that's (so far) scheduled to be canned in March..

IIRC, the "original" unpaid app for basic members (what these folks would be) when you started, called the Intro app, limited folks to 2 in Difficulty and 3 on Terrain.

- Though a bit better than today, that's still quite far from "everything except PMOs".

While your old paid app's still working, maybe your "loaner" idea (two iPhones) is a best bet. :)

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three local caches might be enough to decide if they like Geocaching.

 

Of course it depends on the involved persons, but for someone like me three at most 1.5/1.5* caches

would not get me interested at all. To limit the T-rating to 1.5* seems a very odd decision in my opinion.

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I am running into the same issues as a non-premium user just trying it out. I find the system very frustrating to use actually, so much so that I don't want to pay for a premium membership because I am annoyed. I know it isn't that expensive, and I think I will buy a membership, but it is a bit discouraging to use as a free user. Partly because I can access so many caches on my computer at home, but then I go on my phone (which doesn't even have a sim card) and I can hardly get anything.

 

Even third party apps seem to have the same limitations as the official geocaching app, only premium members can make use of the full app. Although maybe I just haven't looked at them closely enough. I have found myself typing coordinates into my phone, in the field, in the snow, with cold fingers, not fun.

 

So far the best thing I have found is to put together a list of caches I want to go for, at home with the computer. Put the list on my phone, then copy and paste coordinates on the phone when I get out on the trails. Of the several apps I have used, I like GCtools the best for navigation so far. It will only allow you to load one set of coordinates at a time though.

 

You could geocache in a group, let the premium members navigate and the attendees find the cache once you get close. They could all have a say in picking the next cache to head for too.

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I can access so many caches on my computer at home, but then I go on my phone (which doesn't even have a sim card) and I can hardly get anything.

When I was trying out Geocaching, I printed couple of web pages, and entered coords manually. While I'm playing for free on other people's money, I can't complain.

 

It's cool to try out some features to verify they work. But, by design, additional conveniences become available as a paying member.

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Thanks Kunarion and Manville, I have really enjoyed it so far and will probably get a membership. I guess I was just surprised at how difficult it was to try it out for free and felt they could do a better job getting people interested before throwing 'buy premium membership' at them at every turn. I always thought geocaching was essentially free, but it turns out I was wrong.

 

I might have to look for that app...

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Thanks Kunarion and Manville, I have really enjoyed it so far and will probably get a membership. I guess I was just surprised at how difficult it was to try it out for free and felt they could do a better job getting people interested before throwing 'buy premium membership' at them at every turn. I always thought geocaching was essentially free, but it turns out I was wrong.

 

I might have to look for that app...

Sure it is. :)

 

Two years ago I had a craw stuck, and was basic for two years.

Other than the things we took for granted (notifications, lists...) it didn't really change our caching one bit.

Granted, we cache with a GPSr and the site most times (though both have sorta-smart phones), but we rarely cache the numbers, so were okay with it. :)

Just went to the site and entered each cache we'd do.

Edited by cerberus1
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Thanks Kunarion and Manville, I have really enjoyed it so far and will probably get a membership. I guess I was just surprised at how difficult it was to try it out for free and felt they could do a better job getting people interested before throwing 'buy premium membership' at them at every turn. I always thought geocaching was essentially free, but it turns out I was wrong.

 

I might have to look for that app...

 

Another suggestion that I have is to ask a moderator here for a free 30 trial of Premium Membership. :anibad:

 

I went back to being a basic member for a few months, but I enjoy the PM perks enough to pay to play here. :)

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I remember... Back when I was a boy in the dark ages, a limited trial for software was the norm and everyone accepted it.

 

Shareware was the term used. You'd get the first level of a game, a week's worth of use or a bog standard set of features. It was enough to give you a taste of what was going on and then you'd go and buy the program.

 

And that's exactly what we've got here. A trial. You get to taste geocaching and when you're ready to go beyond the basics you buy the full thing.

 

You do have options of course.There are other apps with their own limitations and all the data (except premium) is available to all members on the website. It's just if you want all the features that make geocaching on the go easy, you have to pay for it. Somebody needs to feed the hamsters. Somebody needs to supply the developer monkeys with new typewriters.

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I think the new pay to play above 1.5 limitation is dumb. It's not that complicated of an app. If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

I've been doing this since 2000. I once bought a GPS through the site to help out in the early days. I mainly used it to find hidden gems while on vacation and generally don't log the caches. I thought this was a great idea back in the day. It was kind of like an early social network.

 

In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

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I think the new pay to play above 1.5 limitation is dumb. It's not that complicated of an app. If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

I've been doing this since 2000. I once bought a GPS through the site to help out in the early days. I mainly used it to find hidden gems while on vacation and generally don't log the caches. I thought this was a great idea back in the day. It was kind of like an early social network.

 

In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

Again:

Use a different app. There are other free ones out there without this limitation. Their limitation is (I think) that you can download info on only 3 caches per day, but they can be harder caches, multicaches, etc.

The "official" app isn't the only app in town. :rolleyes:

Edited by TriciaG
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I think the new pay to play above 1.5 limitation is dumb. It's not that complicated of an app. If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

I've been doing this since 2000. I once bought a GPS through the site to help out in the early days. I mainly used it to find hidden gems while on vacation and generally don't log the caches. I thought this was a great idea back in the day. It was kind of like an early social network.

 

In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

 

Still got your GPSr? Kick it old school and leave the smart phone in your pocket. Over 99% of our finds are done through GPSr and not through the app.

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I think the new pay to play above 1.5 limitation is dumb. It's not that complicated of an app. If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

I've been doing this since 2000. I once bought a GPS through the site to help out in the early days. I mainly used it to find hidden gems while on vacation and generally don't log the caches. I thought this was a great idea back in the day. It was kind of like an early social network.

 

In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

 

you don't have to pay unless your caches are subscription only.

 

there are plenty of applications that will find all the non subscription caches, easily.

 

we save the waypoints of the places, caches, hikes we go on, just in case someone trips over a power cord and deletes everything one day. :-)

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I think the new pay to play above 1.5 limitation is dumb. It's not that complicated of an app. If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

I've been doing this since 2000. I once bought a GPS through the site to help out in the early days. I mainly used it to find hidden gems while on vacation and generally don't log the caches. I thought this was a great idea back in the day. It was kind of like an early social network.

 

In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

 

Still got your GPSr? Kick it old school and leave the smart phone in your pocket. Over 99% of our finds are done through GPSr and not through the app.

+1 Yep. :)

Though both of us had sorta-smart phones when we started this hobby, over 90% of our finds are still with a GPSr.

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In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

 

You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now. Pokémon go is free, so that's what my 5yr old does now.

By definition, you have been loading caches onto a GPSr, where non-payers get access to way more than the API limit of caches. So... you can't trust your kid with your GPSr, and that's Groundspeak's problem? Everyone else has to pay for App support for your kid? :blink:

 

As for cache finding limits, paying members don't want to pay for the support and expense so that your kid could use the App (or especially, that anyone on the street could then go get most caches without really signing up), and I am glad that Groundspeak understands this. If you want the Official App to have its for-pay features, you pay for that. That's fair! Or use an API partner App and then have different restrictions. Or use a GPSr and load thousands of caches.

Edited by kunarion
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You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now.

Your cache was a 1/1 archived in 12/01.

Your "kid" could have easily accessed it (when it was still available) with a basic membership.

Guess I'm kinda curious what you meant by that... :)

Edited by cerberus1
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First stop: API partners, if that doesn't fit your needs, second stop: the app with ":" in it's name. :ph34r:

And since by using Geocaching's services, you agree to not use web scraping Apps, stop before the second stop.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/account/documents/termsofuse

 

"D. Restrictions. Permission to use our services is subject to the following restrictions. Whether these restrictions have been violated shall be determined in our sole discretion. You agree not to:

 

I. Use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access our services for any purpose without our express written permission."

Edited by kunarion
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First stop: API partners, if that doesn't fit your needs, second stop: the app with ":" in it's name. :ph34r:

And since by using Geocaching's services, you agree to not use web scraping Apps, stop before the second stop.

 

I wouldn't like to feed all cachers using that app. Besides, you can use it without scraping data. If the "official" app were of any standard, the ":" one would't stand a chance.

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If Waze can make money handing out free maps, directions, and traffic advice, Groundspeak can by providing a list of gps coordinates for boxes of stuff that volunteers maintain.

 

 

Waze is a part of the Alphabet conglomerate, it was purchased not for it's ability to make money but to cannibalise so parts of it could be integrated into google maps. Waze makes the money it does by selling the information it collects.... What questions are you going to ask of Groundspeak if an icecream cart is waiting at the cache you're looking for this weekend?

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You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now.

Your cache was a 1/1 archived in 12/01.

Your "kid" could have easily accessed it (when it was still available) with a basic membership.

Guess I'm kinda curious what you meant by that... :)

Hey, he said he was going to "find a new spot soon." It's only been 15 years, cut him some slack. :anibad:

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First stop: API partners, if that doesn't fit your needs, second stop: the app with ":" in it's name. :ph34r:

And since by using Geocaching's services, you agree to not use web scraping Apps, stop before the second stop.

 

I wouldn't like to feed all cachers using that app. Besides, you can use it without scraping data. If the "official" app were of any standard, the ":" one would't stand a chance.

The ":" is terrible for use "offline". I keep reading that it's "the best", tried it for a while and found it unacceptable. If it were the Official App, it would have tons of complaint Threads, yet as the anti-establishment App it can do no wrong. I then deleted all but the Official App and Locus Pro. But I mainly use an "App" as a database backup (or an emergency backup for when I didn't bring the Garmin yet did bring my wifi-only phone). Geocaching "Apps" flake out on every phone I've tried, I cannot depend on any such phone App for this purpose. And watch out when any App is advertised as "Free". Funding is coming from someplace (ideally that would be from those using the App). If people don't pay, the App goes away.

Edited by kunarion
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You guys killed it. I have to pay to have my kid find my own box of stuff in the woods now

Your cache was a 1/1 archived in 12/01.

Your "kid" could have easily accessed it (when it was still available) with a basic membership.

Guess I'm kinda curious what you meant by that... :)

Hey, he said he was going to "find a new spot soon." It's only been 15 years, cut him some slack. :anibad:

Guess I coulda mentioned the archived part afterwards...

The "point" was that cache, with a D/T of 1/1, fits within the limitations of Groundspeak's basic app, set at 1.5/1.5.

They wouldn't "have to pay" to access it ... if it was available. :)

Edited by cerberus1
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In the early days you said the site would always be free because geocaching should be free for all. It's sad geocaching has lost sight of its early vision.

That was 'said' when 'phone apps' didn't even exist.

 

The "site" is still free and Basic Members can still see ALL non-PMO caches via the "site". The "app" requires a different developers, for each version (iOS or Android), and those devs do not work for free.

 

If a Basic Member wants to see all non-PMO caches on their phone, then that BM can open the site using the web browser on their phone. It's not as elegant as using an app, because of screen size, but it is functional. I've used the browsing map, cache pages, gallery images, and especially trackable pages via the Firefox browser on my Android phone many times.

Edited by noncentric
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Oh get over yourselves guys. You have to admit it's lame what they did. It's not like the app is some amazing UI. It's just a map with points linked to a database. Those physical points are maintained by volunteers. Originally it was run by a couple of guys for fun. It shouldn't cost much to do. I'm ok with premium membership and ads because servers cost money, but don't gut the whole thing for a casual user. I only do it when I have nothing else to do with the kids on a saturday. I don't use very much computer power.

 

I actually had more caches than the one listed and gave them up to be maintained by other people so they came off my cache list. I know one of them is still active, but the person that maintains it now made it premium only.

 

I still have my gps, and I use it sometimes because the phones don't work as well in the woods.

 

The only reason I thought about this is because I saw premium memberships available on sweatcoin. Even with fake money, I'm not sure the upgrade is worth it.

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Oh get over yourselves guys. You have to admit it's lame what they did. It's not like the app is some amazing UI. It's just a map with points linked to a database. Those physical points are maintained by volunteers.

...with developers who are not volunteers, continuing costs for development, updates and distribution and high costs for hosting in an App Store, and on more than one App Store, and a perk for paying members. I do not want to pay for your kid who you say isn't even interested.

Edited by kunarion
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This really has moved beyond the scope of "getting started". I'm going to shut down this particular thread. If you have specific issues with the app (new or old), it should go in the appropriate forum (Website, iPhone App, Android App)

 

I'd also caution against phrases like "get over yourselves guys". Keep comments to topic, and please refrain from something that might be construed as a personal attach - especially in a forum that is supposed to be a welcoming first look to people dipping their toes into this wonderful hobby.

 

Move along. Nothing left to see here.

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