Etiquette for Cache Needing Maintenance?

February 24, 2017

Hey all!

I'm just wondering what the GC etiquette is for when you find a cache that needs a little TLC. The cache in question could really use a new container, and several other people have mentioned this in their logs. Is it okay for me to message the owner and maybe give them a little heads up? I don't want to sound like I'm overly fastidious or bossy, but I just wondering if a friendly FYI is warranted. Plus, I'm extremely close to the cache, and it if they'd prefer it I can replace the container myself.

Again, I'm not really sure what I should do, if anything. I want to be a friendly member of the community and offer a helping hand, but I also don't want to upset anyone.

Thank you in advance!

1.3k · February 24, 2017

Have you or any previous cachers submitted a Needs Maintenance log? If not, logging a NM is the best first step for a cache that needs some attention. If the CO is paying attention to the found logs, they should be aware that the cache has issues but some CO's pay closer attention to NM logs than regular found logs.

4.8k · February 24, 2017

Looks like the cache owner is still active and logged into the site a few days ago. You might try contacting them through their Profile to see if they need help, but otherwise, it looks as if they aren't interested in taking care of the issue.

February 24, 2017

Have you or any previous cachers submitted a Needs Maintenance log? If not, logging a NM is the best first step for a cache that needs some attention. If the CO is paying attention to the found logs, they should be aware that the cache has issues but some CO's pay closer attention to NM logs than regular found logs.

First off, my apologies, as I'm new and still learning the minor details, LOL

So yes, someone has logged this as Needs Maintenance. It seems like this has tagged as NM for nearly a year. I guess I was just curious what to do since it's been a while. But I think I'll leave it and hopefully the CO will take care of it soon. It appears he or she is already aware. Thank you for the help, though! Always good to know for future occasions,

February 24, 2017

Looks like the cache owner is still active and logged into the site a few days ago. You might try contacting them through their Profile to see if they need help, but otherwise, it looks as if they aren't interested in taking care of the issue.

I don't mind even lending them a hand by replacing the container. I just don't want to impose or come off as rude. Maybe I'll message them after all. Thank you!

7.5k · February 24, 2017

Looks like the cache owner is still active and logged into the site a few days ago. You might try contacting them through their Profile to see if they need help, but otherwise, it looks as if they aren't interested in taking care of the issue.

I don't mind even lending them a hand by replacing the container. I just don't want to impose or come off as rude. Maybe I'll message them after all. Thank you!

Cache owners need to be responsible for their containers or else it is essentially a litter game where the owners drop and container and never monitor it or the listing. Some continue to place more caches that they never intend to monitor or maintain. You may be enabling this behaviour if you replace the container.

It would be better to set a good example and hide your own cache that you will monitor and maintain regularly.

I would suggest you log a NA (Needs Archive). Maybe preface the log with 'Needs Attention. The container is broken. There have been several NM logs (note the dates). The container is broken, the contents are damaged. A new container and log are needed.'

An NA often gets a non-responsive owner to respond. If not, a reviewer will archive it after giving the CO another 30 days to fix it. Then you can set a good example by placing your own in the area and maintaining the container and listing.

3.5k · February 24, 2017

To the OP - If it was me, I would submit a Needs Maintenance (NM) log now and mention the cache's problems in the NM log. My NM log would probably read something like:

I found this cache yesterday (2/23). As noted by previous finders and last year's NM log, the cache container is broken and the contents are no longer protected from the weather. A visit from the cache owner to revitalize this cache would be great.

Of course, that's just what I would do. You can certainly submit an NA log, as L0ne.R mentioned, and/or send the cache owner a message/email and see if that helps. It's great that you're willing to communicate with other cachers about cache problems.

I would suggest you log a NA (Needs Archive). Maybe preface the log with 'Needs Attention. The container is broken. There have been several NM logs (note the dates). The container is broken, the contents are damaged. A new container and log are needed.'

Assuming you are looking at the same NM-flagged cache as I am. The NM logged last year is outstanding. It probably would've been better if the logger had put the problems into the NM log, instead of saying "see my found log" and then burying the cache's issues at the end of a 'long' log with various smileys interspersed after every other sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if the CO's eyes went buggy when reading that Found It log in their email.

The NM log from 2011 is moot. The CO replaced the cache and submitted a Write Note log after replacing the cache a couple months after the NM was logged.

6.8k · February 24, 2017

I don't mind even lending them a hand by replacing the container. I just don't want to impose or come off as rude. Maybe I'll message them after all. Thank you!

If I were in your situation and it were a cache which is worthwhile to be maintained I would write a message to the cache owner and describe them the current condition of the cache and

my concerns that the situation gets worse. In closing I would add that if the cache owner happened to have issues at the moment to visit the cache and exchange the container he/she should feel free to

let me know as it would be willing to offer help.

I definitely would not log a NA log in such a case at this stage of the matters. I have myself profited several times from others helping me out and I offered and provided help to others.

While it is certainly the job of a cache owner to take care of maintenance it cannot do any harm to help each other upon prior agreement. It makes the caching world a bit more friendly and less formal in my opinion.

I cannot blame those who only communicate on the level of NM and later NA logs and always stress what the duties of a cache owner are. However my personal approach is different.

Of course my level of engagement depends however on the involved cache. I would not go the way described above for a guardrail micro.

When you decide to contact the cache owners, different things can happen. They will not react at all (then the cache sooner or later will go the NA way and get archived). They reply that they will take care themselves and will or will not set this into practice. They reply that they would be glad if you could help them out. They might even offer to compensate your expenses.

13.7k · February 24, 2017

To the OP - If it was me, I would submit a Needs Maintenance (NM) log now and mention the cache's problems in the NM log. My NM log would probably read something like:

I found this cache yesterday (2/23). As noted by previous finders and last year's NM log, the cache container is broken and the contents are no longer protected from the weather. A visit from the cache owner to revitalize this cache would be great.

Of course, that's just what I would do. You can certainly submit an NA log, as L0ne.R mentioned, and/or send the cache owner a message/email and see if that helps. It's great that you're willing to communicate with other cachers about cache problems.

...Assuming you are looking at the same NM-flagged cache as I am. The NM logged last year is outstanding. It probably would've been better if the logger had put the problems into the NM log, instead of saying "see my found log" and then burying the cache's issues at the end of a 'long' log with various smileys interspersed after every other sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if the CO's eyes went buggy when reading that Found It log in their email.

+1

A "see my found log" NM after a lengthy "all about me!" log doesn't help.

The CO has to get some sorta info outta all the emoticons and BS...

- But there are quite a few saying the container has issues (though w/o a NM) for a year now.

If me, with still active CO, I'd probably be the one to finally leave an NA.

February 24, 2017

Hello, everyone! So thank you for all of the advice. Everyone seems to have their own personal opinion as to what to do next! I finally decided on first sending the CO a message, and giving them a more direct heads up as well as an offer to replace the container if need be.

If I don't get a response soon, even though they've logged in, I'm going to log it as NA. Personally, I would rather reach out and try a friendly approach. After all, I am new and I'm trying to makes friends, lol It's better, in my opinion, than not giving them a chance to address this. While I know they've had nearly a year of people giving them a heads up, it would just sit better with my conscious if I messaged them first. At the end of the day it's just a coffee can and a short drive, and if I have the option of helping someone out or just flagging it and walking away, I'd rather lend a hand.

Hopefully direct kindness will remedy the situation. Otherwise, I'd rather the next person not find the cache completely destroyed with a weather beaten log. We'll see.

7.5k · February 24, 2017

Hello, everyone! So thank you for all of the advice. Everyone seems to have their own personal opinion as to what to do next! I finally decided on first sending the CO a message, and giving them a more direct heads up as well as an offer to replace the container if need be.

Yes, I think you've gotten good advice and have taken it well. The important thing is to work with the CO, not against him, and I think it's clear you understood that from the start. That can be done many ways, as has been suggested. You're original post described the cache as needing a little TLC, so the casual back channel of private communications seems fine.

But now that I've seen what others have reported about your "TLC" actually being well documented and serious problems previously reported with an NM, it's time to file an NA. That doesn't mean you have to file an NA -- see below -- but it would still be appropriate. As always, the NA should clearly explain what led to the NA, and that would make up for the earlier NM that didn't clearly describe the problem.

If I don't get a response soon, even though they've logged in, I'm going to log it as NA. Personally, I would rather reach out and try a friendly approach. After all, I am new and I'm trying to makes friends, lol

OK, despite the fact that I say it's time for an NA, I also agree that, as a newbie, you might be reluctant to dive into that water, and I think that's perfectly reasonable and acceptable. It's important to recognize that an NA is a friendly approach, but it's also OK to leave it to a more experienced cacher in case you're missing something. That's the same logical thinking that brought you here to the forums for advice. Having decided not to file an NA, then the private message is a good way to tell the CO what's your thinking without being public about it.

It's better, in my opinion, than not giving them a chance to address this. While I know they've had nearly a year of people giving them a heads up, it would just sit better with my conscious if I messaged them first. At the end of the day it's just a coffee can and a short drive, and if I have the option of helping someone out or just flagging it and walking away, I'd rather lend a hand.

I applaud your laid back attitude, which I share, and I concur that any potential delay caused by not rushing to file an NA is insignificant. So I hope I've made clear that I support your decision. But just to be clear: they've had a year to address this, so they don't need another chance, and, furthermore, posting an NA does not deny them the chance to address the problem, it only makes it more urgent.

7.8k · February 25, 2017

It's better, in my opinion, than not giving them a chance to address this. While I know they've had nearly a year of people giving them a heads up, it would just sit better with my conscious if I messaged them first. At the end of the day it's just a coffee can and a short drive, and if I have the option of helping someone out or just flagging it and walking away, I'd rather lend a hand.

I applaud your laid back attitude, which I share, and I concur that any potential delay caused by not rushing to file an NA is insignificant. So I hope I've made clear that I support your decision. But just to be clear: they've had a year to address this, so they don't need another chance, and, furthermore, posting an NA does not deny them the chance to address the problem, it only makes it more urgent.

^This

The way most reviewers handle NA logs in situations like this is to temporarily disable the cache and give the owner 2-4 weeks to deal with the outstanding issues. The owner in question has already been given a lot of time, but the reviewer will likely give them one last chance, so don't worry that submitting an NA log will mean the immediate end of the cache.

Anyway, I probably would have gone the route of direct contact like you did, and you seem like a very reasonable person and can communicate with them in a respectful manner, so I think you made the right choice. Now it's just a waiting game to see if they do anything about the issues.

February 25, 2017

I applaud your laid back attitude, which I share, and I concur that any potential delay caused by not rushing to file an NA is insignificant. So I hope I've made clear that I support your decision. But just to be clear: they've had a year to address this, so they don't need another chance, and, furthermore, posting an NA does not deny them the chance to address the problem, it only makes it more urgent.

Thank you very kindly! I am glad at least one person, so far, seems to agree with my decision. I must be doing something right, in any event. I feel comfortable giving them a few days to get back to me. If not I'll probably log a NA. I want to be friendly, but I also don't want the cache to be ruined, because this affects fellow cachers from enjoying a find. Everyone enjoys a successful and fun caching experience!

3.5k · February 25, 2017

I applaud your laid back attitude, which I share, and I concur that any potential delay caused by not rushing to file an NA is insignificant. So I hope I've made clear that I support your decision. But just to be clear: they've had a year to address this, so they don't need another chance, and, furthermore, posting an NA does not deny them the chance to address the problem, it only makes it more urgent.

Thank you very kindly! I am glad at least one person, so far, seems to agree with my decision. I must be doing something right, in any event. I feel comfortable giving them a few days to get back to me. If not I'll probably log a NA. I want to be friendly, but I also don't want the cache to be ruined, because this affects fellow cachers from enjoying a find. Everyone enjoys a successful and fun caching experience!

The great thing about the variety of people that participate in geocaching is that there's also a variety of opinions about what to do in certain situations. Well, maybe that's not always a great thing.

But seriously, just because I would do something different doesn't mean that I (personally) don't agree with the course of action you've decided to take. It sounds very reasonable and I applaud you for taking the initiative to get a damaged cache replaced/removed.

February 25, 2017

The great thing about the variety of people that participate in geocaching is that there's also a variety of opinions about what to do in certain situations. Well, maybe that's not always a great thing.

But seriously, just because I would do something different doesn't mean that I (personally) don't agree with the course of action you've decided to take. It sounds very reasonable and I applaud you for taking the initiative to get a damaged cache replaced/removed.

Oh, I absolutely made no offense to anyone's opinion! I took them all into consideration, and I'm trying to implement them all into this and future decisions, My goal is to fix the cache for everyone, CO included, but of course my fellow cachers take priority. I just want everyone to have as much fun as I am!

38.2k · February 26, 2017

The great thing about the variety of people that participate in geocaching is that there's also a variety of opinions about what to do in certain situations. Well, maybe that's not always a great thing.

But seriously, just because I would do something different doesn't mean that I (personally) don't agree with the course of action you've decided to take. It sounds very reasonable and I applaud you for taking the initiative to get a damaged cache replaced/removed.

Oh, I absolutely made no offense to anyone's opinion! I took them all into consideration, and I'm trying to implement them all into this and future decisions, My goal is to fix the cache for everyone, CO included, but of course my fellow cachers take priority. I just want everyone to have as much fun as I am!

It's OK to make minor repairs. If the baggie for the logbook is torn, go ahead and replace. If the pencil is missing, by all means add one. If there is a crack in the container, feel free to repair it with duct tape. If its full of water, drain it and if you have a towel, wipe it out. But major repairs, including container replacement should be taken care of by the cache owner. If they refuse to address the issue, then issue a NA and if you like the spot put your own cache there when it becomes available.

February 26, 2017

It's OK to make minor repairs. If the baggie for the logbook is torn, go ahead and replace. If the pencil is missing, by all means add one. If there is a crack in the container, feel free to repair it with duct tape. If its full of water, drain it and if you have a towel, wipe it out. But major repairs, including container replacement should be taken care of by the cache owner. If they refuse to address the issue, then issue a NA and if you like the spot put your own cache there when it becomes available.

It's my opinion that this cache is beyond duct tape and a towel. It's crushed, the lid doesn't stay on, and the only protection is a rock resting on top of it. The CO hasn't been online in a week, so I am assuming they haven't seen my message, yet. I don't know what sort of notifications they get. In a few days, however, I'm just going to log a NA. It's a nice spot for a cache along a beautiful road, and I'm sure someone would love to have a cache there (or close by). I don't want to seem like I'm being overly fastidious just so I can swoop in and steal the spot. I just want the cache to stay preserved for future participants to find and log.

2.4k · February 26, 2017

I don't want to seem like I'm being overly fastidious just so I can swoop in and steal the spot. I just want the cache to stay preserved for future participants to find and log.

One way you could do this is to make your new cache a kind of tribute to the old one. One of my caches, I named with the original cache name and a "II" on the end, as a tribute to the previous cache.

2.4k · February 28, 2017

Looks like the cache owner is still active and logged into the site a few days ago. You might try contacting them through their Profile to see if they need help, but otherwise, it looks as if they aren't interested in taking care of the issue.

I don't mind even lending them a hand by replacing the container. I just don't want to impose or come off as rude. Maybe I'll message them after all. Thank you!

Cache owners need to be responsible for their containers or else it is essentially a litter game where the owners drop and container and never monitor it or the listing. Some continue to place more caches that they never intend to monitor or maintain. You may be enabling this behaviour if you replace the container.

It would be better to set a good example and hide your own cache that you will monitor and maintain regularly.

I would suggest you log a NA (Needs Archive). Maybe preface the log with 'Needs Attention. The container is broken. There have been several NM logs (note the dates). The container is broken, the contents are damaged. A new container and log are needed.'

An NA often gets a non-responsive owner to respond. If not, a reviewer will archive it after giving the CO another 30 days to fix it. Then you can set a good example by placing your own in the area and maintaining the container and listing.

this is what I would do.

1.4k · March 4, 2017

This can always be hard even if you are not new. Recently I found a cache from a CO I have found a few from over the years. Previous logs stated it was found open and empty. They put in a temp log. Well we found it a and the temp log was a gum wrapper. I thought I was being nice and added a official log in a zip lock and added a handful of nice swagg to it. Also left the gum wrapper. I stated in my log what I had done and that it was now good to go. The CO then disabled it saying it was the CO responsibility to maintain it not mine. I didn't really understand how my fixing it up was worse then the one who left the gum wrapper but it is his cache and in the future I will not do that on his caches.

March 5, 2017

This can always be hard even if you are not new. Recently I found a cache from a CO I have found a few from over the years. Previous logs stated it was found open and empty. They put in a temp log. Well we found it a and the temp log was a gum wrapper. I thought I was being nice and added a official log in a zip lock and added a handful of nice swagg to it. Also left the gum wrapper. I stated in my log what I had done and that it was now good to go. The CO then disabled it saying it was the CO responsibility to maintain it not mine. I didn't really understand how my fixing it up was worse then the one who left the gum wrapper but it is his cache and in the future I will not do that on his caches.

I don't think anyone has ever made minor maintenance on another person's cache (Like replacing a log, adding a zip bag, etc...) and meant it as an insult. I don't think lending a helping hand has ever meant to be negative. I think it's awful that CO's don't see that most cachers are just trying to help, to foster the idea that we're all part of a community. Maybe that's just me, I don't know. But as somebody new to the game I'm actually afraid of helping or pointing out a cache needs a little maintenance because of potential backlash. That's just unfortunate in my opinion. Even if a CO would rather others not touch their caches, there has to be a way to communicate that in a healthy way that doesn't breed hurt feelings.

I've started carrying tape and zip bags with me just in case I come to a cache that needs a very minor helping hand. I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that sometimes means giving a cache a boost so the container/log lasts for the next cacher.

5.7k · March 5, 2017

I've started carrying tape and zip bags with me just in case I come to a cache that needs a very minor helping hand. I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that sometimes means giving a cache a boost so the container/log lasts for the next cacher.

Even when the cache owner has left the game and is no longer active?

March 5, 2017

I've started carrying tape and zip bags with me just in case I come to a cache that needs a very minor helping hand. I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that sometimes means giving a cache a boost so the container/log lasts for the next cacher.

Even when the cache owner has left the game and is no longer active?

I haven't run into that situation, yet. But I wouldn't put a patch on something that I knew wasn't going to be adequately taken care of later on by the CO. I think in that situation I'd probably NA it and open up an opportunity for another person to put a cache there. I don't have a generic solution for every situation or problem I come across, I just use my discretion.

5.7k · March 5, 2017

I've started carrying tape and zip bags with me just in case I come to a cache that needs a very minor helping hand. I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that sometimes means giving a cache a boost so the container/log lasts for the next cacher.

Even when the cache owner has left the game and is no longer active?

I haven't run into that situation, yet. But I wouldn't put a patch on something that I knew wasn't going to be adequately taken care of later on by the CO. I think in that situation I'd probably NA it and open up an opportunity for another person to put a cache there. I don't have a generic solution for every situation or problem I come across, I just use my discretion.

I always took pride in my hides. I use good containers and logs. If there is a problem, I like to be the one to fix it on my geocaches.

Sorry, but community maintenance has taken geocaching in a different direction than actually using the NM to alert the cache owner,... just fix the cache with a log or a throwdown so the next finder can enjoy.

3.5k · March 5, 2017

I've started carrying tape and zip bags with me just in case I come to a cache that needs a very minor helping hand. I want the game to be fun for everyone, and that sometimes means giving a cache a boost so the container/log lasts for the next cacher.

Even when the cache owner has left the game and is no longer active?

Personally, I don't see it as problematic if a cacher performs "very minor" maintenance on a cache. For example, if a cache log is full, then maybe adding another small log sheet so future finders have something to sign until the CO can get there to replace it. Of course, also mentioning what was done in the Found It log. Or, if a cache container is wet, then pouring out the water and wiping it down, and mentioning what was done in the Found It log. A wet cache isn't necessarily a leaky cache. I've seen cachers open caches and leave them laying open in the rain while signing the log, so just because a cache is wet inside doesn't mean the cache container is the problem.

ETA: What I mentioned above does depend on whether the cache already has an NM or not. If I see that the cache has an NM noting the problem that I could easily fix, then I'm not willing to "prop it up". But then, I usually skip caches with recent NM logs and rarely come across this type of situation. ALSO, there are plenty of times that I haven't fixed 'minor' issues because I'm simply not equipped with extra log strips and/or a napkin to wipe out a wet cache.

Whether the CO has left the game or not isn't something that I take into consideration in such situations, mainly because I cache using a GPSr and I don't want to pull out my phone to look up the cache and check the CO's profile for the date of their last visit or found cache. And for some caches, I don't even have a cell signal, so I can't look up a CO's profile page.

Edited March 6, 2017 by noncentric

10.1k · March 5, 2017

Actually, a very tough question. Prop up abandoned caches so cachers can find them? Or archive them? Not that anyone would hide more caches there. Worked on a short series. CO is inactive "The "Send Email" feature is disabled because this user is currently inactive." Last signed on over a year ago. The series I was working on is in rough shape. Last finder replaced a few logs. (Gave me something to find and log.) And the defunct caches will not be removed by the CO. The humorous aspect here is that the reviewer who archived one of the caches was able to find it afterward! Well, the cache had seven DNFs, and no response from the CO.

What concerns me is the other series by this CO. I would enjoy doing it. But will they be going down one by one?

I think dying caches by missing owners should be allowed to die.

March 6, 2017

I don't know if I could find a cache that needs minor maintenance, like a bag or a log, and just walk away from it. It would be nice if all CO went out immediately to take care of a cache, or frequently visited them to perform a fix here and there, but the fact is a lot don't. I've been playing a month and already I've seen where CO's take a few weeks just to log back onto the site to even see if they have a NM or a message saying they should visit a cache. If I just leave it as I found it, despite the fact I could have done something quick and simple to fix it, then another cacher could come along and find it in even worse condition.

There are no rules as to whether I should or shouldn't do minor maintenance on a cache, but if it takes me two seconds I'm going to do it. And no, when I'm out caching I very rarely, if ever, investigate the CO. I usually just have a GPS with me and I almost never use the app.

I guess it's just personal preference. I certainly never mean to offend a CO by doing so. I would hate to think that one day I'll throw my hands up in the air and say it's not my problem and just let whatever happen to the cache.

5.7k · March 6, 2017

I don't have a problem with those times when a cacher has helped out with a dry log, other than feeling a little embarrassed as a cache owner -- I do feel it's my job to keep up a cache, and I'd rather have the opportunity to do that rather than someone else feel they needed to step in.

5.7k · March 6, 2017

I don't have a problem with those times when a cacher has helped out with a dry log, other than feeling a little embarrassed as a cache owner -- I do feel it's my job to keep up a cache, and I'd rather have the opportunity to do that rather than someone else feel they needed to step in.

I'm sure some CO's depend on others to maintain their poor quality randomly placed geocaches, and it's always that we repaired the cache to help out the next finders, but what about that cache owner? Why would a geocacher feel it's their problem to repair/replace my geocache without my permission? I don't understand it. If there is a problem with a geocache, it can be noted without posting a NM. Never using the NA or note and just adding a new log and or container should not be an option for a finder. It has really sucked the fun out of cache ownership for me.

7.5k · March 6, 2017

I'm sure some CO's depend on others to maintain their poor quality randomly placed geocaches, and it's always that we repaired the cache to help out the next finders, but what about that cache owner?

You are presuming a case where the cache is poor quality. Obviously that can be the problem, but the case I think about more is where cache quality is not the issue. Even the best caches get old or go missing.

Why would a geocacher feel it's their problem to repair/replace my geocache without my permission? I don't understand it.

It's not hard to understand: it's because they come from a geocaching culture where helping out with other people's caches is normal. That was the culture in my area a few years ago: lots of geocachers were friends, so they didn't really think twice about helping out if there was a problem with the cache. Of course, the CO started out being friendly by not hiding junk so the cache wouldn't often need help.

Lately that's changed because everyone's always connected via cellphones, so there's not really any excuse not to call the CO to ask about fixing or replacing their cache instead of just doing it unilaterally. And the culture in my area has adjusted. So while I still say it's easy to understand why they do it, I also agree that at this point in history, we should discourage replacing or fixing a cache without the CO's explicit approval.

If there is a problem with a geocache, it can be noted without posting a NM. Never using the NA or note and just adding a new log and or container should not be an option for a finder. It has really sucked the fun out of cache ownership for me.

I'm sorry to hear that it's so negative. Is that just because you don't hear about the problems? I don't want anyone to replace my missing cache without my permission, but if they did, it wouldn't bother me as long as I heard about it so I knew I had to go replace their replacement.

6.8k · March 7, 2017

I'm sure some CO's depend on others to maintain their poor quality randomly placed geocaches, and it's always that we repaired the cache to help out the next finders, but what about that cache owner? Why would a geocacher feel it's their problem to repair/replace my geocache without my permission? I don't understand it. If there is a problem with a geocache, it can be noted without posting a NM. Never using the NA or note and just adding a new log and or container should not be an option for a finder.

I never ever would replace a cache that has gone missing without permission. I do not have an issue with leaving an additional log sheet however. Of course I both mention what I did in my log and write a personal message to the cache owner.

The more time is involved to get to the cache (drive and hike), the more I'm inclined to help out if possible. This does not mean that cache owners are not responsible for their caches. Often it's a temporary fix anyway and the owner will ultimately go and visit the cache. When it saves the owner a trip which can be used to hide a new cache, I would not mind either as long as it does not get a systematic thing and the owner is not relying on others as a maintenance plan.

I have helped out others and other helped me out in about the same amount which is fine for me.

Doing a cache that requires 7 hours of hiking round trip and at least 2 hours of driving to get to the starting point and then not leaving for example a new log book feels to me like telling an old lady who dropped something that she dropped something and not picking it up for her. In case of doubt I try whatever I can to improve the situation at such a cache. I have no possibility to contact the cache owner in such cases to ask. However I know that I have never encountered someone owning such a cache who was not grateful if someone helped them out and fixed a before unknown problem (not a missing cache container) without prior consent.

Etiquette for Cache Needing Maintenance?

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