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Does Garmin give up from outdoor GPS


fujitsu

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Hi,

It seems that Garmin give up from outdoor GPS. In the recent past it was usually we have frequent sw updates with bug fixes or even new functionalities.

 

What are your opinion?

 

Do you think that Garmin lost to smartphones?

 

I sincerely hope not because I prefer a GPS than a smartphone.

 

merry Christmas to all

 

AA

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Ummm, okay. They came out with three new units last year with a lot of changes.

Nah. They see the writing on the wall. They're ready to throw in the towel. Smartphones have a GPSr built it - fine-tune it, add some bells and whistles, miniaturize everything, and guess what?! You got an all-in-one unit!

 

Seriously, right now you just download a widget and the smartphone displays the GPS readings.

 

In the year 2020 feel free to bump this thread - it will be a "provident" bump, so no need to tremble in your boots! ;) - and we can confirm that smartphones have taken over more and more of the territory. By then they will interface with your smart-refrigerator :o to provide you an inventory while you're in the supermarket.

 

So Garmin and friends will either evolve quickly or go the way of the dinosaurs! B)

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Hopefully they popup with new units on the CES, if not there might be something very wrong.

 

To long Garmin didn't listen to the users and kept launching not finished products, we had many outdoor

models where the whole first series was swapped by Garmin for another unit.

Many users swapped 3 > 5 times their new unit, just for the hardware.

 

Often this was seen as a good service from Garmin, but actually they sold a defective unit and Garmin knew from

the beginning they sooner or later would get all these defective units back. Many people geve up and the unit is a paperweight or lays in a drawer to rest.

 

We had several models they didn't even bother to adjust the errors.

Almost never we received a good answer from the helpdesk, IF we got an answer at all.

We had models that disappeared after a few month.

The first Garmin Android, Nuviphone was a disaster, the second Garmin Android, Monterra seems to work more or less right now, but has an old Android version from the beginning and is not so compatible as Garmin let us believe in the specs

and has still many issues remaining.

 

Many have a smartphone that works and has al kinds of modern looking (free) apps and maps that do the job good and right,

Apps can do everything offline, once you loaded the data via a network you have everything you need offline.

 

I think that most users use the Gps/smarptphone only for a relative short time outside the car.

That makes the battery life a non issue and screen visibility just a way of adjusting.

 

In the end the good working outdoor Garmin gps is better overall, but many smartphone owners don't need an outdoor Gps.

 

All these issues don't make Garmin trustworthy, nobody will be spending 500-600 $$ on an not working unit

and be the betatester for the coming year.

Edited by splashy
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While Garmin may not be releasing many new handheld units, the are doing a land rush business on the automotive side of the business. I like to think I have kept abreast of their models, but they even have me confused on the automotive side. Seems they release a new model or series before I sort out the current units. Someone buying a new car gps has got to be lost in the numerous models. With regard to handheld units, I don't need a new model that frequently if they would put out good solid, tested, units with prompt attention to bugs. Word of mouth sells many more GPS units than all the marketing and advertising they do...witness the 60CSx If you make a better GPS the world will beat a path to you door. If Garmin is holding off releasing a new GPS because they are building in the quality and reliability users expect...great. I'll wait and stand in line to buy it.

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I'm another who wouldn't trade my GPS in for a cell phone. I'm a serious hiker/hunter/outdoors person living in Montana. I'm also in natural resource management as a career. Smartphones are ok in a pinch, when you have good cell service (a problem for me right there), and your phone is new enough to still have decent battery life, and it has enough free memory to download map tiles, and it's nice outside.

 

I don't know because I'm not in the boardroom at Garmin but I doubt they're giving up their market share of the handheld outdoor niche anytime soon. Expect software updates and new units to continue to be released well into the future. To be honest though, what more could you want from a handheld than what is currently available? All the features for navigation are already found in available units to include good battery life and waterproof design.

 

Personally what I would like to see in the next model is a combination of the user friendly high-res touchscreen found in the Oregon 6xx series combined with the reception and accuracy of the 64 series. Something like this:

 

1419400306.jpg

Edited by yogazoo
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I don't wear blinders as does a plow-horse.

 

Phones are becoming more popular in geocaching because everybody feels they HAVE to have one. Once obtained, they search through the apps. Once they search through the apps, they find geocaching. BINGO.... They are instantly 'geocachers'.

 

If the case were otherwise, there would be far fewer cachers (and caches) as there currently are (which could well be a good thing).

 

I hardly think that GPSr units will be following the dinosaurs anytime soon. There are plenty of times they work (better) when phones don't.

Phones are getting better, but they just ain't there, yet.

I have and use both. When push comes to shove for geocaching, I'll gladly give up the phone.

Edited by Gitchee-Gummee
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I'm another who wouldn't trade my GPS in for a cell phone. I'm a serious hiker/hunter/outdoors person living in Montana. I'm also in natural resource management as a career. Smartphones are ok in a pinch, when you have good cell service (a problem for me right there), and your phone is new enough to still have decent battery life, and it has enough free memory to download map tiles, and it's nice outside.

 

I don't know because I'm not in the boardroom at Garmin but I doubt they're giving up their market share of the handheld outdoor niche anytime soon. Expect software updates and new units to continue to be released well into the future. To be honest though, what more could you want from a handheld than what is currently available? All the features for navigation are already found in available units to include good battery life and waterproof design.

 

Personally what I would like to see in the next model is a combination of the user friendly high-res touchscreen found in the Oregon 6xx series combined with the reception and accuracy of the 64 series. Something like this:

 

1419400306.jpg

Did you Photoshop that?

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Is there a reason to come out with new units on a yearly basis? GPS, unlike most modern technologies, doesn't really go obsolete. If you have a solid product, why keep tampering with it? Hardware updates ought to come along when major technological advances become available. The increases in speed and storage capacity are nice, but the basic function of navigating to a waypoint hasn't changed. Changes to the software are mostly cosmetic.

 

With Garmin's current model options, there shouldn't really be a need for a hardware upgrade for 5 or 6 years.

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Is there a reason to come out with new units on a yearly basis? GPS, unlike most modern technologies, doesn't really go obsolete. If you have a solid product, why keep tampering with it? Hardware updates ought to come along when major technological advances become available. The increases in speed and storage capacity are nice, but the basic function of navigating to a waypoint hasn't changed. Changes to the software are mostly cosmetic.

 

With Garmin's current model options, there shouldn't really be a need for a hardware upgrade for 5 or 6 years.

Well, lemme see here. Just ONE example? Real PITA when I discover that my caching buddy's PQ load didn't include something we plan to visit, and mine did. The ability to move an entry from my Oregon 450 to his while in the field .. nice.

 

Now, step back, and ask yourself whether there really have been no improvements to useful features in the last 5 or 6 years. Let's not get started on another "those are just whistles and bells' argument, either, or I'll recommend an old unit that requires manual input of all coordinates and is accurate only to DD.MMM !! :lol:

Edited by ecanderson
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Is there a reason to come out with new units on a yearly basis? GPS, unlike most modern technologies, doesn't really go obsolete. If you have a solid product, why keep tampering with it? Hardware updates ought to come along when major technological advances become available. The increases in speed and storage capacity are nice, but the basic function of navigating to a waypoint hasn't changed. Changes to the software are mostly cosmetic.

 

With Garmin's current model options, there shouldn't really be a need for a hardware upgrade for 5 or 6 years.

Well, lemme see here. Just ONE example? Real PITA when I discover that my caching buddy's PQ load didn't include something we plan to visit, and mine did. The ability to move an entry from my Oregon 450 to his while in the field .. nice.

 

Now, step back, and ask yourself whether there really have been no improvements to useful features in the last 5 or 6 years. Let's not get started on another "those are just whistles and bells' argument, either, or I'll recommend an old unit that requires manual input of all coordinates and is accurate only to DD.MMM !! :lol:

 

I'll remind you that the GPS was not invented for geocaching, but rather the other way around. Geocaching came about as a game to play with navigation tools. It's nice that Garmin does provide geocaching support in its handheld GPS units, but geocaching is still not their primary purpose.

 

I can say that aside from some convenience features (ex. multi-touch gestures), there is no real advantage to an Oregon 600 over my Oregon 450. If I had a GPS 60csx, then maybe I'd consider an upgrade to the 64s or an Oregon, but then we're looking at about a 10 year difference in technology.

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Remind me? I was born (long) before 2000. Not sure why we're having that particular chicken/egg discussion. Garmin builds general purpose units with features for many activities so as to hit the widest part of the market with single units. Relevance?

 

As to the rest, I agree. Do not yet see anything particularly compelling in the Oregon 600 vs. the 450 I already own. Not EVERY new Garmin unit brings a great new feature along with it, but every now and again, one is added that is of clear benefit to one or more of use models that make up their customer base's requirements, and sometimes, it's good for geocachers. Backing up just a while again ... "Field Notes" ... that was a major step forward for our crowd. So the idea of waiting 5 or 6 years between new model releases would put us a long way behind where we've been so far. Have there been too many 'interim' models without a great deal of differentiation in the feature set for the caching community? Yes, probably. It was your "5 or 6 years" that I'm arguing against.

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Hi,

It seems that Garmin give up from outdoor GPS. In the recent past it was usually we have frequent sw updates with bug fixes or even new functionalities.

 

What are your opinion?

 

Do you think that Garmin lost to smartphones?

 

I sincerely hope not because I prefer a GPS than a smartphone.

 

merry Christmas to all

 

AA

In response to the original post, I'm wondering if fujitsu has an older model that Garmin is no longer providing support for.

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I'll remind you that the GPS was not invented for geocaching, but rather the other way around. Geocaching came about as a game to play with navigation tools. It's nice that Garmin does provide geocaching support in its handheld GPS units, but geocaching is still not their primary purpose.

 

Originally, you are correct. However, I guarantee you that the vast majority of hand GPSr sales today and nearly all high end GPSr sales are focused to geocachers with hiking and boating being a distant 2nd. If Garmin developed a new unit that didn't have paperless geocaching, the sales would be all but zero.

 

Car GPS units probably fuel most of Garmin's sales today however I think the market for that is slowly disappearing as smartphone and other devices are replacing.

 

And does Garmin need to keep coming out with a few new models each year??? No, but they also know there are enough people who will throw out big money into making sure they have the latest and greatest GPSr unit. Many of us in this forum do exactly that.

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Hi All,

I have a Oregon 600. It is my fourth Garmin GPS. I really do not need a new model but in the past Garmin was much more active. We had a new sw release once a month. And Oregon still has some bugs. In my opinion the oregon is a good device but it could be better if Garmin wants that to.

My question is mainly regarding the sw releases and not regarding new models.

 

I wish a good year for you all and for Garmin to.

 

Regards

AA

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Smartphones are ok in a pinch, when you have good cell service (a problem for me right there), and ...

 

You don't need cell service to read gps signals.

 

True, but a GPS signal without the ability to data-stream maps is like using an old Magellan 315. A dot (your location) on a blank screen. I could plan ahead and download map tiles from various sources and map styles (aerial, topo) but it's a PITA for me. Instead I can just grab my Garmin and go.

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However, I guarantee you that the vast majority of hand GPSr sales today and nearly all high end GPSr sales are focused to geocachers with hiking and boating being a distant 2nd.

 

Really? Most Garmin users I know are hikers, very few geocache ...

 

I'll second sussamb with an anecdote. Of the several dozen or so GPS users I know there are only two who have ever gone geo-caching. Most GPS owners I know use them to navigate, record, query geospatial data. Hunting is another HUGE use for GPS with about 12.5 million hunters in the US alone. Ive read some estimates of the number of geocachers at 3-4 million. The geocaching features add customers that help to make the handheld market larger but to say that handheld units revolve or should revolve around geocaching might be assuming too much.

Edited by yogazoo
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Smartphones are ok in a pinch, when you have good cell service (a problem for me right there), and ...

 

You don't need cell service to read gps signals.

 

True, but a GPS signal without the ability to data-stream maps is like using an old Magellan 315. A dot (your location) on a blank screen. I could plan ahead and download map tiles from various sources and map styles (aerial, topo) but it's a PITA for me. Instead I can just grab my Garmin and go.

If you are using certain apps, you can use static OSM based maps in your app...no need for cell signals..also cuts your data usage significantly.

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If you are using certain apps, you can use static OSM based maps in your app...no need for cell signals..also cuts your data usage significantly.

 

I've seen that option and for some that would be a great solution. However some require topo info and detailed land features. The OSM maps I've seen have primarily roads, some trails, points of interest and little else.

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The OSM maps I've seen have primarily roads, some trails, points of interest and little else.

Switch your geocaching.com maps over to Leaflet, and browse through the offerings. Excellent trail coverage on some maps, plus topo contours. OpenCycleMap for example; it's based on OSM data with contours added. The Thunderforest maps are also OSM-based, and I find Thunderforest Transport invaluable when exploring a new city - now where is the nearest metro station again?

 

A good geo-app will give you a choice of maps, including these. Like Locus on Android, for example.

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Ummm, okay. They came out with three new units last year with a lot of changes.

Nah. They see the writing on the wall. They're ready to throw in the towel. Smartphones have a GPSr built it - fine-tune it, add some bells and whistles, miniaturize everything, and guess what?! You got an all-in-one unit!

 

Seriously, right now you just download a widget and the smartphone displays the GPS readings.

 

In the year 2020 feel free to bump this thread - it will be a "provident" bump, so no need to tremble in your boots! ;) - and we can confirm that smartphones have taken over more and more of the territory. By then they will interface with your smart-refrigerator :o to provide you an inventory while you're in the supermarket.

 

So Garmin and friends will either evolve quickly or go the way of the dinosaurs! B)

 

Sygic navigation does not have any problems with that at all! http://www.sygic.com/en/business:fleet

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Nah. They see the writing on the wall. They're ready to throw in the towel. Smartphones have a GPSr built it - fine-tune it, add some bells and whistles, miniaturize everything, and guess what?! You got an all-in-one unit!

 

Seriously, right now you just download a widget and the smartphone displays the GPS readings.

 

In the year 2020 feel free to bump this thread - it will be a "provident" bump, so no need to tremble in your boots! ;) - and we can confirm that smartphones have taken over more and more of the territory. By then they will interface with your smart-refrigerator :o to provide you an inventory while you're in the supermarket.

 

So Garmin and friends will either evolve quickly or go the way of the dinosaurs! B)

 

On that basis since smartphones have cameras so will cameras, but smartphones can never compete with a dedicated camera and I can't see one replacing my GPS either, for all sorts of reasons.

 

I agree with this. Smartphones are good and have the advantage of always being with you. They also give you a chance to try things like Geocashing with out spending money until you know if you like it. But no device designed to do every thing can do them all as well as a device designed for that one task.

 

I know there are ways to keep the phone dry in the rain and carry extra batteries to keep it charged and pre load maps. But I prefer push buttons to touch screens and would rather buy a low cost GPS that's designed to be water prof, have long battery life and easy to change batteries, multiple maps on a sd card etc. You can buy a GPS starting at about $100 and going up to about $700. Even the $700 is cheep compared to money people spend on other hobbies.

 

You can do a lot with a DSLR camera with changeable lenses and external flash etc. that you could never do with a smartphone.

 

I'm sure there are people that are happy with their smartphone and will never buy a GPS or camera. But I can't see them replacing dedicated devices for everyone and think GPS and cameras will be around unless some new better technology comes along.

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It's a bit naive to believe everything will stay as it is.

Your mp3 players, movie players and the TomTom/Nuvi satnav IS already

integrated in the smartphone.

 

Due to huge amount of smartphones sold they have to make them better,

the coming smartphones will be as good as a good point and shoot camera and

as a medium level priced gps.

For many many people there will be no reason to buy a dedicated Gps

in the future.

 

Considering the amount of problems users had with certain models and

Garmin 'updates', many current users will think twice before spending

on a new model.

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Considering the amount of problems users had with certain models and

Garmin 'updates', many current users will think twice before spending

on a new model.

That is very True. I have thought about not buying another Garmin do to problems but I can never find anything better so when I want a new GPS I buy another Garmin. Garmin could do themselves a big favor by fixing some bugs and making some minor improvements. This should be easy to do. Even with the problems I would rather have a GPS then use my smartphone. If someone else comes out with a better GPS that could hurt Garmin if they don't fix and improve first, but I don't think it will be phones that hurt them too bad.

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I'm another who wouldn't trade my GPS in for a cell phone. I'm a serious hiker/hunter/outdoors person living in Montana. I'm also in natural resource management as a career. Smartphones are ok in a pinch, when you have good cell service (a problem for me right there), and your phone is new enough to still have decent battery life, and it has enough free memory to download map tiles, and it's nice outside.

 

I don't know because I'm not in the boardroom at Garmin but I doubt they're giving up their market share of the handheld outdoor niche anytime soon. Expect software updates and new units to continue to be released well into the future. To be honest though, what more could you want from a handheld than what is currently available? All the features for navigation are already found in available units to include good battery life and waterproof design.

 

Personally what I would like to see in the next model is a combination of the user friendly high-res touchscreen found in the Oregon 6xx series combined with the reception and accuracy of the 64 series. Something like this:

 

1419400306.jpg

 

Put me down for one of those ( after the 8 th firmware update ).

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Garmin has enough models available in their lineup that are targeted at many different users and their purpose for owning a dedicated GPS unit. Some models seem geared to the hunter/outdoor user (Rino), some are small and lightweight for hikers (eTrex), some seem more geocache specific like the Oregon. Some good auto-handheld crossovers like the Montana and Monterra. It's obvious that Garmin doesn't focus on the "all in one" GPS unit and many, including myself, sometimes forget that. However many features trandscend many of the different models. For the majority of GPS buyers it comes down to what features we would like to have crossed referenced with what we can afford/justify to our spouses.

 

The OP in this thread ponders the question of whether or not Garmin has given up on the outdoor (handheld) GPS. I think it's quite obvious that they haven't and won't be as long as people recreate out of doors or until all mobile phones use satellites instead of cell towers.

Edited by yogazoo
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For all the phone enthusiasts out there. Relying on cell coverage in half of the US is a fools errand. Montana is exhibit A. Idaho is even worse. I know it's been suggested to download map tiles to cover areas I might be out of range but the areas are simply too large to make that a reasonable option. Long live dedicated GPS!

 

Map of Verizon coverage in Montana (by far the most of any carrier)

1420311084.jpg

Edited by yogazoo
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For all the phone enthusiasts out there. Relying on cell coverage in half of the US is a fools errand. Montana is exhibit A. Idaho is even worse. I know it's been suggested to download map tiles to cover areas I might be out of range but the areas are simply too large to make that a reasonable option. Long live dedicated GPS!

 

Installing maps and geocaches on your phone is no more of a chore than installing them on your dedicated GPS. I'm really not sure that I see your point. There are other downside to a phone, but having onboard data is not one of them.

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Installing maps and geocaches on your phone is no more of a chore than installing them on your dedicated GPS. I'm really not sure that I see your point. There are other downside to a phone, but having onboard data is not one of them.

 

Having an entire states worth of topo, digital elevation, and aerials on my phone is a non-starter. So my point is that unless I want to sit down and take the time to download maps every time I recreate in a new area I'm better off with a dedicated GPS that I can load an entire state or regions detailed topo data plus aerial images in one action. There's a popular infomercial out there which has uses the catch phrase "Set it and forget it". It's attractive in it's low maintenance connotations. It comes down to uses and location and for Montanan's who drive hours between recreation areas in a vast state of public lands, a GPS is the best way to "Set it and forget it" with regards to maps. Phones work fine but scale is a huge factor in the amount of mapping data and the ease with which it's done.

 

So one of the downsides to using a phone for many indeed is offline mapping. It just comes down to storage space on your phone and the size of the desired area you wish to download.

Edited by yogazoo
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I know it's been suggested to download map tiles to cover areas I might be out of range but the areas are simply too large to make that a reasonable option.

What kind of area are we talking about??? Maps don't take up all that much space. As an example, I keep the entire State of Colorado (OSM) on my GPS, and it only takes up 47MB. TomTom has the entire North American continent, WITH speed limits and many other details, including a large POI set, in about 3.5GB. So I second the suggestion.
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Good thing some apps are designed to work offline then.

See my previous post. The "World" for some is very small and can be had on a phone. For others who travel great distances, from the Frank Church Wilderness in one weekend, 300 miles east to the Missourri River Breaks the next, downloading data on a phone is problematic. Someone who comes out west to hunt for elk just wants a whole state's worth of detailed topo data loaded on a single robust device which takes about 5 minutes of actual attention (if that) on a Garmin. Messing around with apps and downloads on a phone is again not really an option.

 

For some phones are great, for the rest GPS units are the only way to go. Which is why Garmin is going to be supporting older units and releasing new ones for a long time to come.

Edited by yogazoo
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I know it's been suggested to download map tiles to cover areas I might be out of range but the areas are simply too large to make that a reasonable option.

What kind of area are we talking about??? Maps don't take up all that much space. As an example, I keep the entire State of Colorado (OSM) on my GPS, and it only takes up 47MB. TomTom has the entire North American continent, WITH speed limits and many other details, including a large POI set, in about 3.5GB. So I second the suggestion.

 

Aerials aside, were talking apples and oranges. If all I wanted were streets on my phone we'd be good to go. Not much street data for the Wilderness though is there? I'm talking detailed topo and landowner information.

Edited by yogazoo
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I just tried to download high-res road and topo maps for the entire state of Montana in a popular offline mapping app for Android. The map data was Mapquest Open and first off it wouldn't let me do it, says the file would be too large. Secondly if I were to somehow bypass the download restrictions it says the mapping data would be 596,545 MB's (I assume raster data being the cause of the large file). My phone doesn't have enough storage but perhaps if I purchased a few SD cards (large ones) I could swap them out depending on the area of the state I'm in. However I'd rather grab my Garmin already loaded and head out the door and not worry about it.

 

Edited to add: next stop OSM maps. Sure the whole state of Montana is only 50MB but all I get that is worth anything are roads and trails. I love OSM but not really a solution for detailed land features.

Edited by yogazoo
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