CO's responsibility for trackables in their caches

[+Team Microdot]

I visited a cache the other day which had a trackable listed in its inventory. The trackable wasn't there.

 

While logging my cache find back home I saw that others had mentioned in their logs that the trackable wasn't there.

 

In my experience, cache owners often don't realise that they can correct their cache inventory by marking as missing any trackables which are listed in there which are not physically present in the cache container.

 

In such circumstances, when it looks like the trackable has been absent from the cache for a while, I mention in my log that I am certain the trackable isn't there and encourage the CO to mark it as missing so that their cache inventory is correct and the trackable owner is automatically notified by email of the situation.

 

On this occasion the owner of the trackable asked that the CO visit the cache, audit the paper log against the online logs to see if anyone had visited the cache but not logged online and also wanted to know if the CO had taken the time to contact previous finders, whether they had logged online or not, in a bid to ascertain which cacher had been last to see their trackable in the cache.

 

I felt that the trackable owner was asking a little too much of the CO and expecting the CO to take rather too much responsibility for a trackable which happened to pass through their cache.

 

I'm interested to hear what others think.

[+MountainWoods]

I only own 2 caches, and I don't play the trackable game. (The only one experience I had with it was not good.) So I wouldn't even know or care how to fix any trackable issues related to the caches that I own. If someone can show me in the guidelines where I am supposed to support trackables, I'll be happy to change my attitude about it. But I don't recall such a thing. (Pup Patrol?)

[+coachstahly]

 

I felt that the trackable owner was asking a little too much of the CO and expecting the CO to take rather too much responsibility for a trackable which happened to pass through their cache.

 

I'm interested to hear what others think.

I agree with you on this one. I'll do what I'm able to, but that's going a bit too far, IMO. As the owner of quite a few trackables that have gone MIA, I usually contact the last person who had it to verify that it was truly dropped or if they still had it in their possession. I'll occasionally contact some finders of where I dropped it to see if they saw it in there or grabbed it themselves, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable asking the CO of the cache to do those things for me.

[+cerberus1]

I don't look if someone's having an issue with trackables until I do maintenance.

Can't count how many times I've found that "missing" trackable at the bottom of the ammo can, mixed with swag, or some odd reason, stuck to the lid.

"Stuck to the lid" has happened more times than I care to think about.

Someone eating a PB&J while routing through stuff? Yuck!

 

Sure not gonna play Sherlock Holmes for a TO either.

If my cache isn't named "the Travel Bug Welcome Center", It's not participating in that side-game other than passing through.

The hobby's geocaching, not trackable whodunnit.

Send a trackable out, you take your chances (though seems a bit worse these days) like everybody else.

[+cerberus1]

If someone can show me in the guidelines where I am supposed to support trackables, I'll be happy to change my attitude about it. But I don't recall such a thing.

There is none.

In missing trackables, it simply says, "If you are the trackable owner or the owner of the geocache that the trackable is supposed to be in, you can mark the trackable as missing".

You can, no requirement.

When I do maintenance, if it truly is missing, I'll notify the TO first.

It's theirs.

After a few weeks and no notice from them, then I'll mark it missing.

- Usually just so Keystone doesn't beat me to it.

[Pup Patrol]

I visited a cache the other day which had a trackable listed in its inventory. The trackable wasn't there.

 

While logging my cache find back home I saw that others had mentioned in their logs that the trackable wasn't there.

 

In my experience, cache owners often don't realise that they can correct their cache inventory by marking as missing any trackables which are listed in there which are not physically present in the cache container.

 

In such circumstances, when it looks like the trackable has been absent from the cache for a while, I mention in my log that I am certain the trackable isn't there and encourage the CO to mark it as missing so that their cache inventory is correct and the trackable owner is automatically notified by email of the situation.

 

On this occasion the owner of the trackable asked that the CO visit the cache, audit the paper log against the online logs to see if anyone had visited the cache but not logged online and also wanted to know if the CO had taken the time to contact previous finders, whether they had logged online or not, in a bid to ascertain which cacher had been last to see their trackable in the cache.

 

I felt that the trackable owner was asking a little too much of the CO and expecting the CO to take rather too much responsibility for a trackable which happened to pass through their cache.

 

I'm interested to hear what others think.

 

As a cache owner, I would gladly go out to check for myself that the trackable was truly missing. I would also mark it "missing" if it's been noted for a while by finders that it was missing.

 

But beyond that...nada, nope, nyet...I'm not going to hound or harass or check up on others. There's no way of knowing what happened, so it's asking way too much.

 

I only own 2 caches, and I don't play the trackable game. (The only one experience I had with it was not good.) So I wouldn't even know or care how to fix any trackable issues related to the caches that I own. If someone can show me in the guidelines where I am supposed to support trackables, I'll be happy to change my attitude about it. But I don't recall such a thing. (Pup Patrol?)

 

No, it's not the cache owner's responsibility to do anything at all with trackables.

 

The cache owner "can" mark trackables missing from their caches. But even that is not a requirement.

 

The trackable owner needs to dial it back. They should be the one to mark it "missing", and then just move on.

 

B.

[+The A-Team]

If someone can show me in the guidelines where I am supposed to support trackables, I'll be happy to change my attitude about it. But I don't recall such a thing. (Pup Patrol?)

I thought there was a section somewhere that said owners are responsible for maintaining the listing, and also a section that talked about how cache owners have the ability to mark trackables as missing, possibly using the term "responsible". I can't find either right now, so maybe they've been removed or reworded.

 

Anyway, I know this has been a contentious issue in the past. Some people interpreted it as saying that owners simply have the ability to mark trackables as missing if they wish, while others interpreted it as being a responsibility. There were a few whose heads almost exploded when it was suggested that they may be required to do so. Personally, I take pride in keeping my listings - the entire listing - as accurate as I can, which includes marking trackables as missing. However, I would not do the described detective work. That's definitely asking too much.

[+The A-Team]

Ah, found it.

6.34. Geocaches That Need Maintenance

Additional reminders for geocache owners:

...

• Mark Trackables as "missing" if they are listed in the inventory but no longer are in the cache
  

Granted, it doesn't use explicit directive terms like "required" or "must", but it could be interpreted as implying that cache owners should do it.

[+cerberus1]

Ah, found it.

6.34. Geocaches That Need Maintenance

Additional reminders for geocache owners:

...

• Mark Trackables as "missing" if they are listed in the inventory but no longer are in the cache
  

Granted, it doesn't use explicit directive terms like "required" or "must", but it could be interpreted as implying that cache owners should do it.

If you click on the link on "missing" it takes you right back to that ""If you are the trackable owner or the owner of the geocache that the trackable is supposed to be in, you can mark the trackable as missing".

I don't interpret that as you should at all...

[+Harry Dolphin]

Nope. It is not the CO's responsibility or requirement. GS was kind enough to make it possible for the CO to mark the bug missing. But it is not the responsibility of the CO.

[+The A-Team]

Ah, found it.

6.34. Geocaches That Need Maintenance

Additional reminders for geocache owners:

...

• Mark Trackables as "missing" if they are listed in the inventory but no longer are in the cache
  

Granted, it doesn't use explicit directive terms like "required" or "must", but it could be interpreted as implying that cache owners should do it.

If you click on the link on "missing" it takes you right back to that ""If you are the trackable owner or the owner of the geocache that the trackable is supposed to be in, you can mark the trackable as missing".

I don't interpret that as you should at all...

Yeah, taking everything together, that's how I interpret it too. They are not required to do so, but I'd still say that it would be appreciated if they did use the feature. Really, it isn't that much work and won't hurt. Trust me, nobody will burst into flames for simply clicking on "Mark Item Missing"!

[Keystone]

Number of trackables I've marked missing in order to help cache owners keep their cache inventory accurate, to help trackable owners learn of their trackable's likely fate, and to help finders who wish to search for caches with actual trackables in them instead of "ghosts": 5,778

 

Number of caches I've archived or disabled due to the cache owner's failure to maintain the trackable inventory accurately, as mentioned in Help Center Article section 6.34: 0

[+Manville Possum]

We ran across a ammo can cache with 34 favorite points a few weeks ago on a geocaching road trip that showed 11 trackables in it's inventory, but none present. The cache owner has not signed on in several years. It would be nice if a reviewer would help correct the inventory, BUT who would leave a trackable in a cache that is neglected?

[+J Grouchy]

I feel that even though the CO doesn't HAVE to check or mark them missing, if the logs indicate they ARE missing...why not just clear out the inventory? Even if they really are there, so what? I don't think the CO should have to physically verify, but I do think marking them missing is at least one way to help those looking for trackables and those who may own them.

[+MartyBartfast]

From the Cache Owner's point of view isn't marking the trackable as missing as much about performing maintenance on their cache, as it is about maintaining the trackable?

 

So bearing that in mind yes I will mark a TB missing if I see several reports about it not being there. I wouldn't normally go out of my way to search past logs to try and track down a missing TB, although I have done so once because the TB owner asked very politely, and it was only a brief diversion on my usual route to work; but I certainly don't feel it's my duty as a CO.

[+redsox_mark]

For me as a cache owner, the guidelines on cache maintenance combined with common sense tells me I should try and keep the trackable listing up to date. Not doing all the things in the OP, but if I see a trackable which is listed in my cache and is being reported as not there, I will mark it as "unknown location".

 

But there is no firm guideline/rule which says a CO must do this.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

OK, so I own three caches, one of which is big enough to hold Bugs.

 

I absolutely agree that it's my responsibility to keep my listings as accurate as possible, and if I knew that I was listing a TB that wasn't there, I would mark it as missing or shoot a quick note to the owner, in the spirit of comraderie and mutual cachiness.

 

BUT, I wouldn't make a special trip to go-see, or go out of my way at all to find out what happened to it.

 

HOWEVER, the cynical side of me has to wonder if a cache owner, especially the owner of a relatively lonely cache, might not be so inclined because a listing with three TB's on board is more attractive than one with none!

[+BernGPS]

And what is in it for a Cache Owner(CO)? It is just the satisfaction of knowing that people go to the cache that you placed and the knowledge that I have brought someone to a place of interest. Unlike a geocacher who has the number of cache found listed beside his name, a CO has no bragging rights because the number of geocaches he placed is not even listed besides his name. A CO also doesn't get a message from the site owner saying kind words about the good number of caches he placed or a pat on the back for a job well done. Good and kind words from geocachers who found and appreciated the caches are few and far in between except for the TFTC which just seems like a passing phrase.

 

Instead, a potential CO could face questionings and and obstacles in publishing new caches just because 3 out of 20 caches placed could't be properly maintained due to change in jobscope where travels to that is has been few and far in between.

 

Becoming a detective for a missing TB? No, I would not but I have tried to do it previously as the TB owner asked very nicely. There was even one geocacher who insinuated that I as the CO might have taken the TB and kept it just because he couldn't find the TB in my cache even though it has been listed as being in there.

 

So is it worth it being a CO? By the way, I am now working in Kuala Lumpur and have been here for 1.5 years. I had placed 2 new caches in the City centre. The cache has not been published as the Reviewer wanted to know how long I would be stationed in KL. Would I know? Would everyone know how long their posting to a place would be?

 

So I am still debating if I should just remove the cache and save myself all the hassle as a CO.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Becoming a detective for a missing TB? No, I would not but I have tried to do it previously as the TB owner asked very nicely. There was even one geocacher who insinuated that I as the CO might have taken the TB and kept it just because he couldn't find the TB in my cache even though it has been listed as being in there.

 

So is it worth it being a CO? By the way, I am now working in Kuala Lumpur and have been here for 1.5 years. I had placed 2 new caches in the City centre. The cache has not been published as the Reviewer wanted to know how long I would be stationed in KL. Would I know? Would everyone know how long their posting to a place would be?

 

So I am still debating if I should just remove the cache and save myself all the hassle as a CO.

 

I hope that you're not getting too discouraged. I enjoyed your Friendship Garden cache in Kuching. It was a lovely spot that I am sure I would not have visited if not for your cache there.

[+BernGPS]

Becoming a detective for a missing TB? No, I would not but I have tried to do it previously as the TB owner asked very nicely. There was even one geocacher who insinuated that I as the CO might have taken the TB and kept it just because he couldn't find the TB in my cache even though it has been listed as being in there.

 

So is it worth it being a CO? By the way, I am now working in Kuala Lumpur and have been here for 1.5 years. I had placed 2 new caches in the City centre. The cache has not been published as the Reviewer wanted to know how long I would be stationed in KL. Would I know? Would everyone know how long their posting to a place would be?

 

So I am still debating if I should just remove the cache and save myself all the hassle as a CO.

 

I hope that you're not getting too discouraged. I enjoyed your Friendship Garden cache in Kuching. It was a lovely spot that I am sure I would not have visited if not for your cache there.

I am getting discouraged, actually. Not the first time. I was in New York last year. Managed to find a few in NYC and NYS in Tallman Mountain area.

[+kunarion]

Becoming a detective for a missing TB? No, I would not but I have tried to do it previously as the TB owner asked very nicely.

I've never asked a CO to investigate my TB. But I have asked previous finders. One said no it's gone, the next said yes it's definitely still there. A duck stuffed animal that occupies half the ammo can. Schrodinger's Duck, I suppose .

 

But, yeah, when a TB is doing great, it's unlikely for a CO to receive a note of praise for the TB being so comfy during its stay. Nobody sends those emails. Well, I do.

[Luckless]

I visited a cache the other day which had a trackable listed in its inventory. The trackable wasn't there.

 

While logging my cache find back home I saw that others had mentioned in their logs that the trackable wasn't there.

 

In my experience, cache owners often don't realise that they can correct their cache inventory by marking as missing any trackables which are listed in there which are not physically present in the cache container.

 

In such circumstances, when it looks like the trackable has been absent from the cache for a while, I mention in my log that I am certain the trackable isn't there and encourage the CO to mark it as missing so that their cache inventory is correct and the trackable owner is automatically notified by email of the situation.

 

On this occasion the owner of the trackable asked that the CO visit the cache, audit the paper log against the online logs to see if anyone had visited the cache but not logged online and also wanted to know if the CO had taken the time to contact previous finders, whether they had logged online or not, in a bid to ascertain which cacher had been last to see their trackable in the cache.

 

I felt that the trackable owner was asking a little too much of the CO and expecting the CO to take rather too much responsibility for a trackable which happened to pass through their cache.

 

I'm interested to hear what others think.

 

This seems like asking more from a cache owner than they should. I can understand asking the CO nicely if they might look at the log in the cache to see if someone visited the cache itself, but did not log online. To expect the cache owner to stop everything and go visit the cache is a little much. That cache could be way out of the owner's way. I also don't believe it is the cache owner's job to contact everyone who has visited the cache to see if they have the missing trackable. That is the trackable owners job as far as I'm concerned.

It's a shame, but people take trackables and people who own trackables need to be aware of that. I like to send out fun trackables that I know people will enjoy finding in the cache. Makes finding a cache more fun and interesting if there is a cool trackable to find in the cache, but they go missing. Too bad people don't respect them and spoil the enjoyment for others. I've had some go missing before they even made it to another cache.

[+briansnat]

If someone posts a log stating that a trackable wasn't in the cache I generally ignore it. It's possible it was taken recently and just not logged yet. If I happen to look at a cache of mine and happen to notice that there is supposedly a trackable that has been there for months with many finds over that period, I will mark it missing, but I don't make it a point to police my caches for missing trackables.

 

As a trackable owner, I will go through my active trackables about once or twice a year and if I see one supposedly in a cache, where there have been numerous finds since it was deposited, I will mark it missing.

 

Ultimately it is the responsibility of the trackable owner to follow his trackables. If he doesn't care about it, why should I?

[+redsox_mark]

The reason I like to keep my listings up to date isn't for the benefit of the trackable owner, but of those looking for my cache (who might be choosing it partially due to trackables being listed in it). I know I can never make the inventory 100% accurate, but if I get for example 2 reports of "the TB isn't there" a month apart, I'll mark it unknown.

[+Pond Bird]

Cache owners cannot mark a trackable as "missing" only the owner of the trackable itself can.

[Keystone]

Cache owners cannot mark a trackable as "missing" only the owner of the trackable itself can.

Sorry, you are incorrect.

[Pup Patrol]

Cache owners cannot mark a trackable as "missing" only the owner of the trackable itself can.

 

That is incorrect.

 

Cache owners can, and do, mark trackables as "missing".

 

Help Center → Trackables → Fancier Features

2.5. Mark Missing - Trackable on page but not there physically.

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=152

 

Sometimes, a Trackable has been physically removed from a geocache, but the finder does not log it online. The Travel Bug or Geocoin icon on remains the geocache page, and geocachers can be frustrated when they arrive at the geocache to find it missing.

 

Don't despair if a Trackable goes missing. In many cases it has been moved to another geocache but the last person didn't know how to log it. The next geocacher who finds it will log the find.

 

If you are the owner of the Trackable, or the owner of the geocache where the Trackable is listed, you can mark the item as missing. This will remove it from the geocache inventory, and place the Trackable in an "unknown location." This will not effect the mileage of the Trackable. Later, if the Trackable is found, it can be grabbed and placed into the correct location. Mileage will be calculated from its previous location.

 

To do this, go to the Trackable's page, and choose from among the "Trackable Item Options." If you are the Trackable owner, it will say "Recalculate distance." Click on this menu and select "Mark bug missing".

 

If you are the geocache owner, the menu will already be on the "Mark bug missing" option. Click "Go" and when the page refreshes, at the top it will ask "Are you sure you want to mark this Travel Bug missing?" Click "Yes" to complete the action.

 

When you mark a Trackable missing, a log to the Trackable's page will be auto-generated under your name, explaining the Mark Missing log.

 

If you are not the Trackable owner or geocache owner and notice that a Trackable is not in a geocache, you can use the Trackable's reference number to log a note to the Trackable listing telling the owner that the Trackable is not there.

 

Or you can email the geocache owner or the Trackable owner and point them to this Knowledge Book page. As a courtesy, it is nice to email the Trackable owner first.

 

B.

[+jellis]

I don't think a CO needs to go out of their way to be sure the trackables in their caches are maintained. If I check one of mine and there is no trackable I will mark it missing. If a cacher sends me a message telling me a trackable is missing from one of my caches then I will research it to see maybe there was a cacher recently before who may have picked it up. I would give it some time before marking it.

[+Malemotives]

It's sad that this topic even comes up, because it exposes one of the down-sides of geocaching that invades many activities.... dishonesty. Some among us who choose to take and keep what is not theirs to keep. I've had TOs contact me about their missing TB and I've had a TB go missing. It is going to happen, but I see no need to think it is a CO's responsibility. People can interpret things however they want. There will always be differences of opinion, just there will always be TBs gone missing. It is what it is. To my mind a CO providing a place to drop a TB does not make the CO responsible for its fate.

[+Pond Bird]

Well there is no option on my page to mark trackables as missing.

[Pup Patrol]

Well there is no option on my page to mark trackables as missing.

 

None of the caches you own have trackables in their inventories. So there is nothing to mark as "missing".

 

You need to navigate to a trackable's page to start the process.

 

From my quote of the Help Center above:

 

To do this, go to the Trackable's page, and choose from among the "Trackable Item Options." If you are the Trackable owner, it will say "Recalculate distance." Click on this menu and select "Mark bug missing".

 

If you are the geocache owner, the menu will already be on the "Mark bug missing" option. Click "Go" and when the page refreshes, at the top it will ask "Are you sure you want to mark this Travel Bug missing?" Click "Yes" to complete the action.

 

B.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Pup Patrol