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Replacing Cache and Log Etiquette..


KaiaKaia

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My family and I have recently started geocaching and come across a few containers and logs that need replaced.

 

What is the etiquette for replacing them myself? Is it acceptable to just remove the last log and place a new one? I ask this mostly in regards to small/micro/nano caches that can only fit a log, but have also come across logs that were soaked or completely full.

 

We have also found one container that needs replaced. It is an Altoids tin that is damaged and rusted. The logs inside are soaked. Is it acceptable to replace with an exact kind of container? What about replacing with a new container type? If I were to replace with another Altoids tin, I fear the same thing would happen. The hide is in a low area were moisture and water accumulation occurs.

 

Also, how do I log a "needs maintenance?" I usually log from the geo caching intro app and do not see that option. Do I need to upgrade to the paid app?

Edited by KaiaKaia
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You do not replace the cache. It's not yours to replace. For one, by doing that, you're encouraging cache owners to just place and forget them. Or its an owner that's not active, and you're just keeping the cache alive instead of letting it die out and get archived.

 

The other reason is that it's my cache. So it should be my decision to fix or replace it. Or to move it. Change the container. Archive it.

 

For the logs, well I wouldn't replace one unless I know the cache owner. I carry a sharpie and a space pen, so if there's a log, I can sign it.

 

If the cache needs any work, even a new log, you log (separate, you also log your found it) a needs maintanance. Or if there is hasn't been maintenance, log a needs archived.

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The intro app will have options for Not Found, Needs Maintenance, etc.

 

I don't use it, so I don't know where it is. But it IS there! Hunt for it. ;)

 

In the app I use, I tap the "Found It" and change it there, but it's a 3rd party app, so probably not the same.

 

EDIT: Apparently you can't log a NM from the intro app?? http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=516

 

Do it online then. Go to the cache via a web browser and do it from there.

Edited by TriciaG
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While your intentions are good, i don't think it's a good idea replace containers. Cachers who place caches have a responsibility to maintain them. This being said, i have added a log sheet a few times to help out a cache owner. But, i have also made sure to mention that i did this in my log so that the cache owner can perform maintenance him or herself.

 

You can usually log a "find" on these but be sure to also log a "needs maintenance", along with a short description of the problem(s) you encountered, when you run into caches like these.

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My family and I have recently started geocaching and come across a few containers and logs that need replaced.

 

What is the etiquette for replacing them myself? Is it acceptable to just remove the last log and place a new one? I ask this mostly in regards to small/micro/nano caches that can only fit a log, but have also come across logs that were soaked or completely full.

 

We have also found one container that needs replaced. It is an Altoids tin that is damaged and rusted. The logs inside are soaked. Is it acceptable to replace with an exact kind of container? What about replacing with a new container type? If I were to replace with another Altoids tin, I fear the same thing would happen. The hide is in a low area were moisture and water accumulation occurs.

 

Also, how do I log a "needs maintenance?" I usually log from the geo caching intro app and do not see that option. Do I need to upgrade to the paid app?

 

Don't replace containers. Post the Needs Maintenance log, and let the owner deal with it, as is their responsibility.

 

Help Center

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php

 

Finding a Geocache

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.book&id=25

 

3.7. I Found a Geocache that Needs Maintenance

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=551

 

4.2. What log type should I use?

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=534

 

B.

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While your intentions are good, i don't think it's a good idea replace containers.

 

While generally true there are a few exceptions (aren't there always B) )

I've never placed a throwdown or knowingly logged one, I have however replaced a cache. A US CO had a cache in Greenland that needed maintenance and I offered to do it for him as he didn't visit the area anymore. I found the broken jar + log and replaced the container, put the original log in it and added some extra logpaper.

So in this case it was previously agreed with the owner and it was a simple maintenance issue, not a missing cache. If it were to be in an easily accessible place for the CO there's no way I would even consider replacing containers or worse, placing a throwdown.

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We have replaced MANY damaged containers with a like container. The amount of logs we replaced would now be over 500 or so, I just made a batch of 100 or so yesterday ...about 70 went into ziplocks and 30 were for preforms. We have replaced logs all over the lower 48 states but our area gets more rainfall then anyplace else and no container keeps logs dry for very long. Also folks cache in the rain so a perfect container becomes a little terrarium and the logs get moldy and fall apart. I think carrying spare logs and o-rings is a good thing to do....do you have to, no. If you can't find a cache its a DNF, not a NM or NA and don't leave a " throwdown ".

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I'm a bit confused by the advice on this thread. Do I or don't I?

 

I often see comments on caches online that a finder has replaced a log, or put the log in a new waterproof bag. I've even had it said to me that such action is "expected". In fact, I am currently in the process of printing off some replacement log sheets for my next trip.

 

But I do agree with the idea that the cache container is totally down to the owner.

 

Also, can someone tell me what a "throwdown" is?

 

I have only been caching for 7 weeks or so, but have raised quite a few maintenance reports so far, mainly for water-logged logs.

Edited by ErewashPaddler
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I'm a bit confused by the advice on this thread. Do I or don't I?

Your free choice.

 

I often see comments on caches online that a finder has replaced a log, or put the log in a new waterproof bag. I've even had it said to me that such action is "expected". In fact, I am currently in the process of printing off some replacement log sheets for my next trip.

It is not supposed to be expected. Cache owners are supposed to do their own maintenance. But COs will appreciate it, and some COs do seem to expect it and would be upset if you don't. :unsure: Personally, I don't. We usually cache on our bicycles or at the spur of the moment, so I don't have anything other than a writing utensil and my phone. :)

 

Regarding water-logged caches: keep in mind your replaced log will soon be a pile of mush, also. So while you could replace the log, it'd be good to state the condition of the cache in your log. And if the contents are also moldy or gross, or the container is broken, log a NM log. That way the CO can fix it up or replace the container so that the next finder doesn't find a gross mess. If there is already a NM log (you'll see the NM attribute), and the CO hasn't done anything about it, consider logging a Needs Archived. This will get the reviewer's attention and be a further prompt for the CO to clean up their mess.

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I'm a bit confused by the advice on this thread. Do I or don't I?

 

I often see comments on caches online that a finder has replaced a log, or put the log in a new waterproof bag. I've even had it said to me that such action is "expected". In fact, I am currently in the process of printing off some replacement log sheets for my next trip.

 

But I do agree with the idea that the cache container is totally down to the owner.

 

Also, can someone tell me what a "throwdown" is?

 

I have only been caching for 7 weeks or so, but have raised quite a few maintenance reports so far, mainly for water-logged logs.

 

Let's encourage responsible cache ownership. That includes hiding cache containers that can withstand the outdoor elements. Checking on it if there are reports that the log is soaked. Replacing logs when they are full.

 

By replacing logs that a cache owner is neglecting, you might ask yourself if you may be enabling irresponsible cache ownership.

 

One of a list of cache owner responsibilities from the guidelines:

You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to ensure it is in proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.), or posts a Needs Maintenance log.

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And if the contents are also moldy or gross, or the container is broken, log a NM log. That way the CO can fix it up or replace the container so that the next finder doesn't find a gross mess. If there is already a NM log (you'll see the NM attribute), and the CO hasn't done anything about it, consider logging a Needs Archived. This will get the reviewer's attention and be a further prompt for the CO to clean up their mess.

 

TriciaG's advice is very important. Don't kid yourself that you are doing the community a favour by putting a dry logsheet in a moldy mess of a poor quality container.

 

There are many of us who do not appreciate finding a cache that looks like this, even if it has a newly placed dry logsheet inside:

 

c76e5de1892811ccd62944f310c118f5.jpg272585840251500f5606109e575664b9.jpg7ceb0802cc7c42f4b3022a65eed18649.jpg

 

Handling a logscroll that looks like this or will quickly turn into this, is not fun either:

 

8f93a05f-0d5d-49da-bc5d-e68bdaf69116_l.jpg

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Also, can someone tell me what a "throwdown" is?

Here's the Help Center article: 4.11. Throwdowns - How to handle them Basically, when a cacher places a container when they can't find the original container. This is not good practice.

 

Thanks - I've not come across one of them yet. Seems like an odd thing for anyone to do. If the cache isn't there, then it isn't there. It either needs replacing properly (by the CO) or archiving.

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I'm a bit confused by the advice on this thread. Do I or don't I?

Your free choice.

 

I often see comments on caches online that a finder has replaced a log, or put the log in a new waterproof bag. I've even had it said to me that such action is "expected". In fact, I am currently in the process of printing off some replacement log sheets for my next trip.

It is not supposed to be expected. Cache owners are supposed to do their own maintenance. But COs will appreciate it, and some COs do seem to expect it and would be upset if you don't. :unsure: Personally, I don't. We usually cache on our bicycles or at the spur of the moment, so I don't have anything other than a writing utensil and my phone. :)

 

Regarding water-logged caches: keep in mind your replaced log will soon be a pile of mush, also. So while you could replace the log, it'd be good to state the condition of the cache in your log. And if the contents are also moldy or gross, or the container is broken, log a NM log. That way the CO can fix it up or replace the container so that the next finder doesn't find a gross mess. If there is already a NM log (you'll see the NM attribute), and the CO hasn't done anything about it, consider logging a Needs Archived. This will get the reviewer's attention and be a further prompt for the CO to clean up their mess.

 

Thanks for that - I'd certainly do an NM for it. I haven't yet used Needs Archived, though there is one near me that I think fits the criteria.

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Also, can someone tell me what a "throwdown" is?

Here's the Help Center article: 4.11. Throwdowns - How to handle them Basically, when a cacher places a container when they can't find the original container. This is not good practice.

 

Thanks - I've not come across one of them yet. Seems like an odd thing for anyone to do. If the cache isn't there, then it isn't there. It either needs replacing properly (by the CO) or archiving.

 

Basically , if a cache isn't there ( you can't find it ) just log a DNF and move on. Depending on how difficult a cache is to find once it has accumulated a number of DNF's in may be time for a NM. However we have seen a number of 1 diff caches with a number of DNF's that were there and also we miss plenty of 1-11/2's....many times a cache is listed as a 1 and its really closer to a 3.

Simple, if we can't find it its a DNF period.

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Ok, I have a questions... someone above mentioned something about just letting it die if the owner is MIA and not doing any check ups.

 

well, i've run across a few caches in my area where the owner is basically a one hit wonder, sometimes not having even visited the site or logging found / dnf in a few years... yet, the geocache they have put down gets lots of activity.

 

what do you do in that situation?

 

say you come across a log only and the container is missing. if you sign the log, set it back down, and log a NM, and the owner is long gone, YET people keep showing up to the cache... how does it die? if you get no responses from the owner, and it is a popular spot, do you replace the container then? Or is this a type of situation where the broken geocache gets archived and you (or whoever wants to) put down their own geocache in that location as a homage to the former one?

 

can / do popular geocaches get archived in a situation like this (MIA owner)?

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say you come across a log only and the container is missing. if you sign the log, set it back down, and log a NM, and the owner is long gone, YET people keep showing up to the cache... how does it die? if you get no responses from the owner, and it is a popular spot, do you replace the container then? Or is this a type of situation where the broken geocache gets archived and you (or whoever wants to) put down their own geocache in that location as a homage to the former one?

 

can / do popular geocaches get archived in a situation like this (MIA owner)?

If after, say, a month or so, there's no action on the NM log, then log a NA (Needs Archived). That alerts the area reviewer, who will first disable the cache listing for a while, and then archive it if the CO doesn't do maintenance.

 

At that point you can place another geocache there (as long as permission is obtained and the current guidelines are met). And it doesn't have to be in homage to the other one. You can ignore the previous one altogether in your cache listing if you want. :)

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Ok, I have a questions... someone above mentioned something about just letting it die if the owner is MIA and not doing any check ups.

 

well, i've run across a few caches in my area where the owner is basically a one hit wonder, sometimes not having even visited the site or logging found / dnf in a few years... yet, the geocache they have put down gets lots of activity.

 

what do you do in that situation?

 

say you come across a log only and the container is missing. if you sign the log, set it back down, and log a NM, and the owner is long gone, YET people keep showing up to the cache... how does it die? if you get no responses from the owner, and it is a popular spot, do you replace the container then? Or is this a type of situation where the broken geocache gets archived and you (or whoever wants to) put down their own geocache in that location as a homage to the former one?

 

Once a cache is archived, the spot is open to a new one, subject as always to compliance with the Guidelines.

 

There is no need for it to be a homage to the previous cache(s) that were archived. Could have been numerous caches there, which would a new one pay homage to?

 

Help Center → Finding a Geocache → Finding a Geocache

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=551

 

3.7. I Found a Geocache that Needs Maintenance

 

If you find a geocache that is in need of some help (e.g. container is cracked, logbook is wet), please post a "Needs Maintenance" log so the geocache owner and the community is notified.

 

Here's how to post a "Needs Maintenance" log for a geocache:

 

1. Go to the cache page

 

2. Click "Log your visit"

 

3. Under "Type of Log", select "Needs Maintenance"

 

4. Write a short note to the cache owner so they understand what the issue may be

 

A "Needs Maintenance" log adds an attribute to the page (a red wrench) to alert the cache owner and other geocachers that the cache needs attention. "Needs Maintenance" logs do not increase find count and they are not forwarded to local Reviewers.

 

If the geocache has not been found for a reasonable amount of time and the cache owner has not reacted to a "Needs Maintenance" log, it is time to post a "Needs Archived" log on the listing. A "Needs Archived" log will alert the geocache owner and local Reviewer that the cache needs Reviewer attention.

 

The Reviewer normally gives the cache owner a few weeks to react to the "Needs Archived" log. The geocache will most eventually be archived if the owner does not properly maintain their cache.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=434

 

3.8. I found a geocache that needs to be archived

 

If you feel that a geocache listing needs to archived, log onto the geocache page, use "log your visit" and select the log type, "needs archived". Please explain in your log why the listing needs to be archived. This log will be received by both the geocache owner and a local reviewer. The log will not automatically cause the listing to be archived. You may not see any public response to your log.

 

Please use this log only if you have visited the geocache location and:

 

You found a geocache that was placed illegally on private property, without permission, and/or the property owners or law enforcement expressed concerns to you during your search.

 

You found a geocache where aggressive searching activity is causing damage to the surrounding area or the cache placement damages or defaces property.

 

You couldn't find the geocache and it already has MANY DNFs, Needs Maintenance logs (with no cache owner response), and is without a genuine find for a very long time.

 

Please be thoughtful and deliberate in your decision to post a Needs Archived log, as a flippant/fake Needs Archived log can be offensive to cache owners.

 

Do not use it if the geocache needs repairs (please use a Needs Maintenance log in this case), or you didn't find it, or the location made you uncomfortable. Please consider first contacting the owner of the geocache with your concerns. Use the profile link next to the geocache owner's name at the top of the geocache page to send an email, as well as logging to the geocache page about your visit.

 

can / do popular geocaches get archived in a situation like this (MIA owner)?

 

Yes.

 

B.

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First of all, I'd like to commend you on your choice to learn more about cache replacement and taking the time to ask for opinions. In a perfect [caching] world, everyone would do this. B)

 

Bluf: I'd say it's a judgement call.

 

I completely understand the tough love approach of urging owners to maintain their caches with NM and NA logs but isn't this a community - based activity? It's not like the CO receives any income or royalties from Geocaching.com for their cache.

 

Ultimately, the one that suffers is the next cacher to come looking for a dry log to sign. And realistically the CO isn't going to be taught any lesson as a result of repeated NM's and NA's. If anything, they're more likely to just sour from the multiple visitors that were there and passed on the opportunity to help out by doing a little maintenance.

 

Now maybe I'm a little too liberal with my willingness to help my fellow cacher and CO. If so, for that I'll stand guilty as charged. Personalities differ and that's not a bad thing at all. I'm not coming down on anyone's decision to not help out; just tossing out my $0.02 on the matter.

 

What I would do is check the logs. If it's a good hide, fun cache and therefore an asset to the community, and several folks have chimed in about wet logs, old broken container no longer holding out water and elements, etc.. well then maybe a replacement is in order. It's possible the CO has fallen ill, been deployed, temporarily relocated.. who knows what.

 

And to be clear, I'm talking about the short term. Obviously, after several log replacements and a few months of unanswered NMs then maybe a transfer or archive is in order. And perhaps that is the central point that needs defining here... "What is a reasonable amount of time to respond to a NM?"

 

Whatever you choose to do though, I would highly recommend being as transparent about it as possible. Log what you did and keep the old container in case the owner would like it returned and cache log (if it can't be moved to the new container).

 

FWIW, someone replaced a container on one of my caches and posted that he did so bc of the container condition. I was very thankful for the maintenance and kind note of the work done. As stated, it's possible not all COs would receive such a gesture with the same attitude. YMMV absolutely applies here.

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First of all, I'd like to commend you on your choice to learn more about cache replacement and taking the time to ask for opinions. In a perfect [caching] world, everyone would do this. B)

 

Bluf: I'd say it's a judgement call.

 

I completely understand the tough love approach of urging owners to maintain their caches with NM and NA logs but isn't this a community - based activity? It's not like the CO receives any income or royalties from Geocaching.com for their cache.

 

Ultimately, the one that suffers is the next cacher to come looking for a dry log to sign. And realistically the CO isn't going to be taught any lesson as a result of repeated NM's and NA's. If anything, they're more likely to just sour from the multiple visitors that were there and passed on the opportunity to help out by doing a little maintenance.

 

Now maybe I'm a little too liberal with my willingness to help my fellow cacher and CO. If so, for that I'll stand guilty as charged. Personalities differ and that's not a bad thing at all. I'm not coming down on anyone's decision to not help out; just tossing out my $0.02 on the matter.

 

What I would do is check the logs. If it's a good hide, fun cache and therefore an asset to the community, and several folks have chimed in about wet logs, old broken container no longer holding out water and elements, etc.. well then maybe a replacement is in order. It's possible the CO has fallen ill, been deployed, temporarily relocated.. who knows what.

 

And to be clear, I'm talking about the short term. Obviously, after several log replacements and a few months of unanswered NMs then maybe a transfer or archive is in order. And perhaps that is the central point that needs defining here... "What is a reasonable amount of time to respond to a NM?"

 

Whatever you choose to do though, I would highly recommend being as transparent about it as possible. Log what you did and keep the old container in case the owner would like it returned and cache log (if it can't be moved to the new container).

 

FWIW, someone replaced a container on one of my caches and posted that he did so bc of the container condition. I was very thankful for the maintenance and kind note of the work done. As stated, it's possible not all COs would receive such a gesture with the same attitude. YMMV absolutely applies here.

 

Why do caches have to live on forever? Turn-over is also good for the game. Getting the message out that every cache should have an active responsible owner is good for the game. It's about pride in the game and not having a pseudo-trash game where we leave litter for others to find. I don't just want a dry log to sign. I want be part of a past time to encourages responsibility and quality.

 

 

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It's possible the CO has fallen ill, been deployed, temporarily relocated.. who knows what.

 

 

I fell ill - broke my right leg while geocaching. Couldn't drive or geocache for 2.5 months and then only really easy terrain caches for another 2 months. Never neglected my caches, watched my email, watched my cache listings. If they needed maintenance (which they didn't) I would have disabled them it the problem would have wasted finders' time, and posted a note about why I couldn't get out right away. After a month I would have left updated information about my condition. In my area, I know of one geocache hider who died, that was 10 years ago and his family continue to maintain his caches in his honour.

 

Temporary relocated. Yep, that happens. Young people hide lots of caches then head off to college or university and ignore what they've hidden. they get the reviewer deal with the archive. Sure they'll be back in 2-4 years. But by then they're starting their careers and geocaching is no longer on their minds.

 

When we submit our caches we agree to the guidelines and the responsibility that it entails. What I get from your post is, it's OK to not abandon cache listings and cache containers if we fall ill, or move away to college, or get a job overseas for a year, or retire and do a year of cross country travelling, etc.

Edited by L0ne.R
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Why do caches have to live on forever? Turn-over is also good for the game. Getting the message out that every cache should have an active responsible owner is good for the game. It's about pride in the game and not having a pseudo-trash game where we leave litter for others to find.

 

Based on my post above, I don't understand your point of them having to live on forever but it sounds like we might be on the same page in that neither of us want to leave gooey white blobs all over the place.

 

I don't just want a dry log to sign. I want be part of a past time to encourages responsibility and quality.

 

100% with you on this point. However I do believe there is a comfortable midpoint between "only active owner does maintenance" and "everyone replace caches at the first sign of need".

 

Also, I do like your point about turnover. If I ever reach a find count that approaches the total cache count for my area, I'm sure this will become more of a hot item for me. Definitely something I didn't consider before. Thanks for the insight. :)

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Was just reading through the "What irks you most" thread and came across this one:

 

Vent time:

....

  • People posting "Needs Maintenance" because the log book is either a)full or b)wet or destroyed. To my mind, the effort required to carry a few spare logs and replacing where necessary is minimal and yet everyone benefits, logging can continue and no more "Needs Maintenance" logs :rolleyes: It takes more time to place a "Needs Maintenance" note than to replace the log. The rosy glow that you helped the cachers behind you is also nice too.

Great game in general, can honestly say it's changed my life completely, I now have much more in-depth knowledge of the history of this area and the great hidden delights it contains, thank you everyone for sharing that.

 

Mr Crazyhedgehog

 

Figured I'd reference it here bc of relevance. Encountering ensuing thread drift as a result of that one would not be at all surprising.. :laughing:

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I just started this new addiction and have found a few caches that have been wet and or damp. I wrote that in the found it response and hopefully the cache owner will look to replace the container and log to make them waterproof again.

 

Taking one of your cache finds as an example: GC37RD4

 

I understand posting the condition of the log in a find log, if the wet log appears to be minor and a recent occurrence.

In this case it seems to be an ongoing issue and you feel the log should be replaced, so I would recommend posting an additional Needs Maintenance log.

It's unlikely that the cache owner will fix their cache.

There was already an NM posted in May 2015 that has been ignored by the cache owner.

There are numerous wet log posts going back to 2013. All ignored by the owner.

The owner hasn't logged in to the site since February 2015.

He/she has 3 cache hides. One active cache that was mysteriously archived by the owner in 2011 with the note "I got out". 2 active caches with red wrenches (needs maintenance logs). The other active cache also has soaked log issues.

 

Me, I would post the NM, wait a month and then post a Needs Archive log - outlining the above issues for the CO and the Reviewer.

Edited by L0ne.R
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joined only a few weeks ago and found our 1st cache(mainly because we can see it from our window). Just got us out for a walk and a look around.

when we found it, it was needing quite a bit of attention. cracked box and all the logs were damp. after reading a few replies on here i would like to apologize to the owner because i transferred all the cache contents to a new container. (i did leave the damaged container on top of the new one). Lesson learnt, don't go sticking my nose in where it dont belong.

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joined only a few weeks ago and found our 1st cache(mainly because we can see it from our window). Just got us out for a walk and a look around.

when we found it, it was needing quite a bit of attention. cracked box and all the logs were damp. after reading a few replies on here i would like to apologize to the owner because i transferred all the cache contents to a new container. (i did leave the damaged container on top of the new one). Lesson learnt, don't go sticking my nose in where it dont belong.

 

No point apologizing to the cache owner, he's not playing. He hid the cache in 2011 and stopped logging into the site in 2012.

There are 17 Needs Maintenance logs on the cache.

No one is willing to post a Needs Archived.

This is an abandoned cache.

 

You've already placed a cache here, so post the NA. Explain that you left a container and will list it as a new cache once the abandoned cache is archived. I assume you live close enough to take care of the container you left behind. Prepare your cache submission while you wait for the abandoned listing to be archived.

Submit your cache listing. It will now have an active cache owner who will take care of the container and the listing.

If you don't plan on becoming a cache owner, remove your container and post the Needs Archived. In your NA log, let the reviewer know the cache is abandoned since 2012, the condition of the container, and the 17 NMs.

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