Active abusing a TB

[+sulkow82]

Hello,

 

Someone is actively abusing my travel bug. I've noticed in the log that this person will log the bug as being in a cache, then he logs it as he takes it to another cache. The same person takes it and logs it as dropped in over 20 caches in a row. All the while, I have no evidence that it ever left his pocket. Has anyone ever had this problem before and what did you do about it?

 

The discussion number for the bug is TB3M2P7.

 

sulkow82

[+Isonzo Karst]

The tb shows in the hands of a cacher right now. That cacher has not abused your TB, though they have held it a while. They grabbed it out of cache in January and have been logging a TB "visit" to caches found since.

 

This is not abuse. This is a standard log type for trackables being used as intended.

 

If you'd like them to kindly physically drop your bug into a cache, you could send them a brief, very polite very pleasant email and ask if they'd would please.

 

Personally, I wouldn't tempt fate on that - my expectation is that this cacher is logging properly and has the bug. The instant I asked for it to be dropped, and he did that, I'd bet on it being picked up by a novice, not logged and never seen again..... (joking.... sort of).

[+Chief301]

Why do you consider this abuse? There are other actions you can do with a travel bug besides Drop and Retrieve. One of them is Visit, also known as dipping. It just means the cacher found that cache and had the TB with him.

 

Most TB owners like the idea of someone Visiting their TB to various caches. For one thing, it racks up miles on the TB, and you can follow its travels on the map. I think it's fun to see all the places my TB goes to. After all, it is a TRAVEL bug....it's supposed to travel, not just sit in a cache.

 

Second, at least you know this particular TB is still active and being carried by someone who is also still active. At least you know that some inexperienced new cacher hasn't let his kid keep it as a souvenir, never to be seen again, or sitting in the desk drawer of some newbie who tried Geocaching one weekend two years ago and hasn't played since. These are the usual fates of TB's.

[+kunarion]

Has anyone ever had this problem before

Yes, in fact every Trackable Owner has this problem. It's one of the Joys of placing a TB to travel.

 

Cachers take a TB, put it in “a safe place”, then log “visits” to caches forevermore. They are doing this allegedly to help the TO who greatly appreciates knowing the TB is “alive” -- being a helpful and considerate Taker, it's a service the Taker provides to help the TO. Simultaneously, the same Taker will not post any photos nor story logs, just empty “Visits”, because they are not helping the TO, they are inconsiderate and providing no service. They are both doing this for your benefit and refusing to do it for your benefit. In other words, Takers are stark raving mad.

 

I hope this clarifies the issue.

 

I would also suggest NOT using the word “Visit” on the TB page, unless it's like this:

“The unending automatic “visit” logs with no photos, no personalized text, make it seem like there's a problem. Please physically place my TB into a container and log that you did so.”

Edited June 3, 2014 by kunarion

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yes. I think "abuse" is the proper term! I have one that has been visiting Georgia since last August! Only 52 'visits' to caches. And the GC page says "Do not visit it to caches you do not leave it in." Another with 28 'visits' in Belgium in the last month.

So, Yeah. Abuse is the proper term.

Some owners may like it. I very much doubt that 'most' do.

[+sulkow82]

If the holder claims it is in a cache where the bug is not actually located, then yes it is an abuse. Someone else may want to retrieve that TB but can't because it never was there. The ultimate form of notification that the bug is active is being logged as found by a new person.

 

How I would like to see Admin of the website address the issue.

 

A cacher picks up a TB from a cache (fine). Takes it to another cache and registers it there (fine). Then, I would have the website reject any further actions by that specific person. If someone is going to register it as being in a cache, then actually visit that cache and leave it behind (in the cache).

 

"Most TB owners like the idea of someone Visiting their TB to various caches. For one thing, it racks up miles on the TB, and you can follow its travels on the map. I think it's fun to see all the places my TB goes to. After all, it is a TRAVEL bug....it's supposed to travel, not just sit in a cache."

 

I like the idea of my bug visiting various caches. However, I don't like it being "hogged" or monopolized by one cacher. My idea for a TB is it goes to more places than one person could go to. The community moves it around, not one person.

Edited June 6, 2014 by sulkow82

[+Chief301]

If the holder claims it is in a cache where the bug is not actually located, then yes it is an abuse. Someone else may want to retrieve that TB but can't because it never was there. The ultimate form of notification that the bug is active is being logged as found by a new person.

 

How I would like to see Admin of the website address the issue.

 

A cacher picks up a TB from a cache (fine). Takes it to another cache and registers it there (fine). Then, I would have the website reject any further actions by that specific person. If someone is going to register it as being in a cache, then actually visit that cache and leave it behind (in the cache).

 

"Most TB owners like the idea of someone Visiting their TB to various caches. For one thing, it racks up miles on the TB, and you can follow its travels on the map. I think it's fun to see all the places my TB goes to. After all, it is a TRAVEL bug....it's supposed to travel, not just sit in a cache."

 

I like the idea of my bug visiting various caches. However, I don't like it being "hogged" or monopolized by one cacher. My idea for a TB is it goes to more places than one person could go to. The community moves it around, not one person.

 

I agree, ideally I would like to see it move from person to person, and not within the same small geographic area all the time, but I don't have a problem with someone holding on to it for a little while (like maybe 2 or 3 weeks) and visiting it around a bit before they drop it in a cache. Especially if they eventually have plans to advance it in its mission, like they're going on vacation next month and can bring it closer to its destination if it has one.

[+Sagefox]

...They grabbed it out of cache in January and have been logging a TB "visit" to caches found since. This is not abuse.

 

Technically, maybe not. But why do people think it is o.k. to hang on to someone's trackable for six months? I think it is abuse.

 

This is a standard log type for trackables being used as intended.

 

I am reasonably certain that no one intended that a trackable to be hung on to by one person for more than a month, or two, unless it was to help it meet a goal (rare).

 

Six months, nine months, two years? Who ever intended this?

[+kruzrrr]

Some of this sounds like degrees of bugnapping for the ransom of building up the takers stats. Annoying ... yes, but not just for the owner but also for the other perspective cachers who enjoy finding that extra bonus after searching out a cache. It seems a little disrespectful to all the other cachers for someone to keep a bug for an extended period with little or no regard for the mission of the traveller.

[medoug]

I've had a similar situation... One cacher holding my travel bug for the last 7 months while visiting 15 caches during that time. I understand that all caches are not big enough (ie. micro and nano caches) to contain a travel bug, but they have visited at least 3 caches during that time which do appear large enough plus 1 only about 6 miles from the city listed in their profile. I've just sent them this message:

 

"I see that you have had my "XXXXXXXXX XXXXX" travel bug in your possession for nearly 7 months now and have not moved it for the last 2 months. Would it be possible to please put this travel bug in a cache fairly soon so others can have a chance to experience it and move it along for more travels and adventures? Thank you."

 

You're welcome to borrow this format to send a similar message. Good luck.

[Glaiceana]

I do see that the current holder is adding many miles onto it. Also if you look at its history, its common for someone to hold it and visit it to caches for a little while. I'm sure the current holder will drop it off in a cache somewhere soon

[medoug]

The goal of my travel bug (actually I only sponsor it; it's really owned by a troop of Girl Scouts) is "To travel to many caches in all of the 50 United States, and then beyond". The scouts were anxious to see all the parts of the country it would end up.

 

It has been in circulation for about 17 months and has visited 10 states so far.

• In the first 8 months it was handled by 6 different cachers and visited 9 new states.
  
• Then it was carried from cache to cache by a single cacher for about 2 months and visited 0 new states.
  
• Then it was picked up by the current holder for the last 7 months who added just 1 state and hasn't even dipped it in any caches for the last 2 months.
  

 

So, which months do you think had the scouts excited about its travels? .... Definitely the first 8 months. Definitely NOT the last 9 months.

 

BTW... The TB has a laminated tag attached to it which clearly states its intended goal and a checklist of all of the states it has already traveled. No investigation on the TB page is required to understand its goal and progress toward achieving it.

Edited June 17, 2014 by medoug

[+Sagefox]

So, which months do you think had the scouts excited about its travels? .... Definitely the first 8 months. Definitely NOT the last 9 months.

 

I hear you!

 

And I suspect the girls would much rather have the bug make "actual" cache visits and then be picked up by other cachers. It makes it much more interesting.

[WhiskerRockets]

I'm happy if my TB simply stays alive. Several of mine went MIA in the first cache.

[+Bubbles&Bonkers]

I have one that has been dipped tons of times, in fact, I stopped counting after 100! But at least he's alive and well and I just got pictures recently.

[+Sagefox]

Edit: Issue resolved. And quite quickly too. Thanks.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Team Sagefox

[+THeSKuLL]

Retort removed as issue was resolved.

Edited October 17, 2014 by THeSKuLL

[+Sagefox]

Edit: Issue is resolved.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Team Sagefox

[+OHail]

<snip>

 

This is where you should have caught yourself and thought about the effects of all those visits. What value is there to a trackable to visit hundreds of caches 528 feet apart?

 

I've never had a major hit like this before or have seen it on other TBs.

 

 

I fill out a locations visited checklist and put it in a bag with the traveler every time I move one. As a result, I have seen a lot with pages upon pages of visits to each cache found.

 

I have read that the default of the phone apps is for all trackables in a cacher's possession to visit when a find is logged. I don't know since I rarely use my phone to cache and do not log from it. I learned to type on a real non-electric typewriter, like to write a different, sometimes in depth, log for every find and prefer a regular keyboard. I don't do well typing on the phone with one finger when I am used to using all my fingers to type.

 

Some owners want their trackables to get a lot of miles. Visits to every cache found will do that. Personally, I don't log a visit to every cache I find (just a select few like a different state, an interesting cache or a change in direction) but as I stated, I log from a computer where I have to physically select the option for all to visit so it is easier for me to pick and choose which caches for trackables to visit.

 

I can see both sides of this issue. Normally, I would prefer any trackable I own to not be taken to every cache that one visits. However, right now I think I would be happy with that just to know my trackables are still out there. (All of the ones I have released into the wild have disappeared including the one which was a tribute to my dad.)

Edited October 17, 2014 by OHail

[Andronicus]

Hey, here is a great example of travel bug abuse on our Lady Slipper travel bug. 82 pages of Visit logs! Can you believe it?

 

I suspect that even the most ardent supporters of Visit logs will agree that this is way out of control.

 

Sheeeeeeesche!

 

Here is a copy of my email to the culprit:

 

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, THeSKull! What is it with all the Visit logs on our travel bug Lady Slipper?

 

Please place our traveler in a cache soon so that someone else can move it, hopefully toward its goal. I appreciate that you want to add some fun to the travel bug page but 82 pages of visits is waaaasaayyyy out of line. That is over the top and I can't imagine any travel bug owner would want that.

 

When Lady Slipper moves on new finders will have an impossible time seeing where this traveler has actually been and they will miss the story about how it made a long journey to meet up with a young girl who had aged four years while waiting for it to get to her.

 

No one will wade through those 82 pages to read the "real" adventures of Lady Slipper."

 

In my defense, I have been working on a TB Hotel which is about to be $1100 so far. A nice garden shed in my yard. Sadly, the people that 'bought' our house in Alabama, when I retired from the Air Force, turned out to be criminals. We finally got them out, but we've had 2 house payments since April. So, the TB Hotel has been pushed to the back burner. Couple that with a 95% micro-a-day streak and I've honestly neglected some TBs that I had stocked up for the Hotel.

 

Several pages of the 82 came from doing half of the 1005-cache geoart here in Colorado.

 

I sincerely apologize, but you might have been less of a jerk by allowing me to explain before posting this as if you knew it was malicious abuse.

 

Also, you might have contacted me after a page or two of visits. I prefer that my bugs get a 'visit' if they are traveling through micros... I did not consider NOT using the automatic visit on my browser plug-in.

 

As I noted in my e-mail to you, I will gladly show I meant no harm by removing every log on the 82 pages and will drop the TB in a large enough cache at my earliest convenience.

Rule #2 of Travle Bug Ownership: Never speak rudely to the holder of your TB. They have the bug, they have the power.

 

Team Sagefox: You are lucky THeSKuLL seems to be a nice guy. A lot of cachers would just quietly dissapear your bug after receiving an email like that.

[+Sagefox]

A lot of cachers would just quietly dissapear your bug after receiving an email like that.

 

Yes, I was aware that this traveler could disappear but was not worried about it. This situation was just too far over the top and I was planning to retire the bug permanently rather than have those visits cover up the "real" travels. Fortunately, the holder is highly skilled with software and removed all the visits with lightening speed so that won't be necessary.

 

I am reasonably certain that people who like the Visit All option don't realize that many people don't want multiple pages of visits or that some finders detest paging through tens to hundreds of visit logs to see where that trackable has actually been or if it reached its goal.

 

My active travelers have a statement that nicely requests no more than a couple of visit logs per cacher with no threats of deleting logs. That request is almost always ignored. Most of our trackables do get hit with pages of visits since many cachers don't read the TB goals.

 

Periodically I review our trackable pages and delete visit logs but this one would have been impossible for me to tackle.

[amuse-Goose]

Maybe the other caches he/she has dipped the TB into are too small/cramped?

 

I had intended on dropping a TB in a nearby cache, but it's PACKED with swag - like, you can barely close the lid. So, chose a different location.

Edited October 17, 2014 by amuse-Goose

[+Tschakko]

Yet again the never ending story. I am still hoping for the option to disable this type of log on my trackabls too. That type of log is just annoying and of no value to the owner of it's not a distance counter or sth that the owner carries with himself.

 

Be prepared to receive a 150 Logs if they do a power trail one day.

[+kunarion]

I can see both sides of this issue. Normally, I would prefer any trackable I own to not be taken to every cache that one visits. However, right now I think I would be happy with that just to know my trackables are still out there. (All of the ones I have released into the wild have disappeared including the one which was a tribute to my dad.)

I would be glad for news of any kind. I specifically state on my TB page that if someone knows what happened, to log a note, whether the TB is still alive or not.

Edited October 18, 2014 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

Maybe the other caches he/she has dipped the TB into are too small/cramped

I won't take a TB unless I have a viable plan on where I will place it. And I never make a bahzillion robotic "Visit" logs. That's way obnoxious. It's rare that I log any "Visit" without photos and actual typed text. Have you ever visited some new place and then told friends and family only "Me Took Me To"? I didn't think so.

 

And the cache it's currently in is likely to be not too small nor cramped for it. Go figure.

Edited October 18, 2014 by kunarion

[amuse-Goose]

Maybe the other caches he/she has dipped the TB into are too small/cramped

I won't take a TB unless I have a viable plan on where I will place it. And I never make a bahzillion robotic "Visit" logs. That's way obnoxious. It's rare that I log any "Visit" without photos and actual typed text. Have you ever visited some new place and then told friends and family only "Me Took Me To"? I didn't think so.

 

And the cache it's currently in is likely to be not too small nor cramped for it. Go figure.

 

Yeah.. I had the TB (my own) on person the other day to drop, but didn't log as just visiting. Got a smiley for said cache a week or so ago - it was packed then. When I went back, even more packed (yet, oddly, no new logs). A new, different cache popped up in my immediate area, so got a smiley and dropped there instead.

 

If I had someone else's TB and were to "dip", I'd try to take pics with it - the visual/living vicariously through an inanimate object Exhibit A: TB6CBGH

Edited October 18, 2014 by amuse-Goose

[+kunarion]

Got a smiley for said cache a week or so ago - it was packed then. When I went back, even more packed (yet, oddly, no new logs).

I've sometimes been silent or vague with logs about placing nice things, to prevent a cache from being raided. But at least a note about checking out the cache would be good.

Edited October 19, 2014 by kunarion

[amuse-Goose]

Got a smiley for said cache a week or so ago - it was packed then. When I went back, even more packed (yet, oddly, no new logs).

I've sometimes been silent or vague with logs about placing nice things, to prevent a cache from being raided. But at least a note about checking out the cache would be good.

 

I did after getting the smiley. Noticed someone had logged their visit as a DNF and swore it was muggled. So, checked it out for myself following day. Still there and noted.

[stanandannie]

Geeze, my National Park TB has been in the hands of the same person 2-1/2 YEARS! Has made many visits in that time, all within the same 3-4 state area. Didn't know there were that many national parks in middle USA. That person got it within 6 months of our starting it in 2011. Disappointing and discouraging.

[Andronicus]

Geeze, my National Park TB has been in the hands of the same person 2-1/2 YEARS! Has made many visits in that time, all within the same 3-4 state area. Didn't know there were that many national parks in middle USA. That person got it within 6 months of our starting it in 2011. Disappointing and discouraging.

Here is a tip. Try something like medoug suggested (quoted below)

 

"I see that you have had my "XXXXXXXXX XXXXX" travel bug in your possession for nearly 7 months now and have not moved it for the last 2 months. Would it be possible to please put this travel bug in a cache fairly soon so others can have a chance to experience it and move it along for more travels and adventures? Thank you."

 

You're welcome to borrow this format to send a similar message. Good luck.

[+A_Canadian_eh]

Wow .. lesson learned .. let the travel bugs stay where they are .. we had the weird idea we were playing the game when we took them with us as we visited various caches and even took the odd picture in an unusual location. Now we find that owners don't like getting lots of logs about their bugs .. or having their bug not leave the province (state).. or travelling with one person for too long even if it is visiting new caches every week or two. Who needs the grief - let the blessed thing stay in the cache for the next poor sucker. Unbelievable.

[+Frogglin]

I suspect it depends on two things. Does the bug have a goal and how long you hang on to it.

 

If the bug has a goal and visiting caches with it doesn't move it toward that goal, then eventually the owner is going to get fed up with visit logs and no movement in a new direction.

 

If you hang on to the bug for a year, the owner is probably going to get fed up with that too even if you're visiting caches with it. Bear in mind too plenty of people "visit" with a bug while the bug is actually sitting on their desk at home. It sounds like you're actually taking them with you, which is nifty.

 

Now we find that owners don't like getting lots of logs about their bugs ..

 

No, now you've found a couple of people on the forums would rather not have people do this with their bugs. I've a bug (now lost) that has a few pages of visit logs but as it didn't have a goal I didn't mind. It's been to some cool places.

 

Maybe check the goals of any bugs you grab and see if visits will help or hurt those goals, and if a bug owner should contact you and ask you to drop it somewhere don't take it personally.

[+SucklingSeekers]

I was originally in the "any log is a good log" but now I have a few more out there in the world, I'm can see how annoying pages of visit logs must be. TBH it's nice to see where they went but we don't need a log at every GC in a power trail. Although phone apps are responsible for some of this.

 

A tab on the TB log to filter to show visits or not would definitely help.

 

And as for people collecting TBs visiting them to various GCs for year and never dropping them, I do wonder if some of them just don't understand TBs. The wording on some says "keep me moving from cache to cache" ... perhaps they think they are singly responsible for this process? Or perhaps it's just a case of any activity justifies keeping the TB in their collection.

[+The Whittles]

We often have TB,s for a few weeks on end ,usually before we go on holiday but always email the owner to tell them we will have it a while before we take it abroad ,we do this as a matter of courtesy ,if the owner isnt happy with this we drop it off at the earliest convenience

[+Harry Dolphin]

Wow .. lesson learned .. let the travel bugs stay where they are .. we had the weird idea we were playing the game when we took them with us as we visited various caches and even took the odd picture in an unusual location. Now we find that owners don't like getting lots of logs about their bugs .. or having their bug not leave the province (state).. or travelling with one person for too long even if it is visiting new caches every week or two. Who needs the grief - let the blessed thing stay in the cache for the next poor sucker. Unbelievable.

 

Great idea! BTW, the CO's do not get the logs of 'visits'.