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New vs. Old Geocaching


The Rat

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I'm going to sound like an old fogy driving a Model T here, but I like the old style of geocaching better than the way it is now. When I started in 2002 there was no such thing as a smart phone, a nano cache, or GoogleEarth. GPS units like my original yellow eTrex often had little or no satellite reception and normally had only 50 - 100 feet of accuracy. Geocaches were almost always nice large ammo boxes or similar hiding styles in the remote woods or other non-urban areas. They almost always contained logbooks (not log sheets) and people wrote interesting notes in them. Many had those disposable cameras in them and finders would take a "selfie" (although that word wasn't invented then) and when the camera was full the CO would retrieve it, get the film developed, and post the pictures. FTF prizes were often good swag, like T-shirts or $10 bills. There was something fun to read in the log book at the site. Going geocaching was an excursion that took planning. You had to look at printed maps or download USGS photos of the area to figure out a good route. You needed to write down, print out, or memorize the cache information and maybe draw yourself a map or load various guide waypoints into your GPSr to tell you the route and the critical turns. When you got to the cache, it was often hard to find because the coordinates were so dicey and your accuracy bad, too, but the cache rarely had hard camo on it. The challenge was in the planning, navigation, and physical effort to get there. When you found it, you felt like you accomplished something, and the number of geocachers was small due to the effort involved. You felt like you were part of an exclusive group of similarly accomplished people. You wrote a nice long, good log. I knew most of the regular geocachers within 50 miles and made many friends or at events, many of whom are still good friends. You often met other geocachers at a cache because the placing of a new cache was a big event that drew many of the local cachers for the FTF.

 

Nowadays it seems everyone expects all the information on a cache to be at their fingertips on their smart phone. If they have trouble finding a cache, they call for a lifeline. Most hides are urban and contain nothing more than a log sheet, or occasionally some geo-trash trinkets for the kiddies. People log TFTC from their phones and that's it. Hiding a cache brings little or no benefit to the CO. The caches are usually bison tubes in a bush, a magnet under a lamp post skirt, nanos, or something equally uninteresting. If they're challenging it's just because of good camo that serves no purpose other than to make it hard, unpleasant, and frustrating to look for. I never meet other cachers at the cache sites now. There are just too many caches out there. When I go to events most other cachers have not found the same caches I have so we have little in common to talk about. Even when we have found some of the same, the caches are so unmemorable that they don't even recall them - they all blend together. Too many just talk about numbers and powertrails. Their hardware and software is so different from mine it feels like they have an entirely different hobby. There are still ammo cans out in the woods to find, but it just isn't the same kind of accomplishment. It's sort of like a mountain climber who struggles up a high peak for the view only to find a parking lot full of luxury SUVs there. Why bother to climb? By becoming so accessible, geocaching has become less rewarding. So there's my take. Let's hear some other views.

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Geocaches were almost always nice large ammo boxes or similar hiding styles in the remote woods or other non-urban areas.

 

And yet you own several micro caches. (13 of the last 20 you placed)

 

Complain about caches being to small, but hides small caches? I wonder why there's so many micros....

 

And something to think about- play how you want to play. If you like large caches, hide and find large caches. If you don't want to phone a friend, then don't. If you want to write out notes and print off maps instead of taking 3 seconds to download the info to a paperless GPS, go ahead and do that. Just remember you don't have to find every cache.

Edited by T.D.M.22
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Geocaches were almost always nice large ammo boxes or similar hiding styles in the remote woods or other non-urban areas.

 

And yet you own several micro caches. (13 of the last 20 you placed)

 

Complain about caches being to small, but hides small caches? I wonder why there's so many micros....

 

 

:rolleyes:

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And something to think about- play how you want to play. If you like large caches, hide and find large caches. If you don't want to phone a friend, then don't. If you want to write out notes and print off maps instead of taking 3 seconds to download the info to a paperless GPS, go ahead and do that. Just remember you don't have to find every cache.

 

I do not know the OP and how he caches. It is however not as easy as it might seem from your post.

 

I do not have the equipment for paperless caching. While it was very convenient to print out the description of a single multi cache that led me along a 15km hike, nowadays I'm often confronted with series of 15+ caches along a hiking trail and most parts of the descriptions are copy and paste, but not everything. Recently I noticed some important information in the last moment and then had to write down anything by hand as I had no printer nearby and also would not have liked to print 15 cache descriptions with a high degree of redundancy.

Of course I could head out and buy the newest equipment every few years, but I regard this as a waste of resources and money and want to use my equipment as long as possible.

 

I'm not a friend of phoning a friend either, but sometimes it can get frustrating to fail at too many caches, also ones where this was not to be expected after having studied the logs, the ratings etc. I do not need to find every cache, but too many dnfs certainly do not increase the fun someone is having with geocaching.

 

This year in spring I hid a 15+km hiking multi cache in the hope that this might motivate someone else to hide at least a 10km+ hiking multi cache in my area. Not a single such cache has been hidden. The few ones that got hidden are far away. Whatever ones hides, it will not change the fact that meanwhile the geocaching scene is dominated by people for whom geocaching is something completely different that it means to me.

 

 

Cezanne

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I'm in my mid 60's and have a medical condition which makes me breathless when walking up any sort of a slope. I will never attempt a T4.5 and have only ever done 2 T4.0 walks. They took me at least twice as long as normal.

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

I don't care about the sort of swag I find in caches. I will leave things, particularly Australiana on overseas trips, but only ever take trackables.

 

I only really started caching in 2012 so I don't have any experience of the early days, but I suspect that I wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much as I do now. I love the modern style of caching. It is a great hobby which gets me to places I wouldn't normally visit.

 

You can have all the ammo cans at the end of 5 mile T4 hikes, I'll take the roadside park and grabs and earthcaches at waterfalls and we can all enjoy this great game in our own way.

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One thing that seems to remain the same is that folks will start forum threads that are essentially the same as other active forum threads. There are several going now that are essentially the same questions asked with different words. I've seen that in other (non-GPS-related) forums also.

Edited by MountainWoods
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When I go to events most other cachers have not found the same caches I have so we have little in common to talk about. Even when we have found some of the same, the caches are so unmemorable that they don't even recall them - they all blend together. Too many just talk about numbers and powertrails. Their hardware and software is so different from mine it feels like they have an entirely different hobby. There are still ammo cans out in the woods to find, but it just isn't the same kind of accomplishment. It's sort of like a mountain climber who struggles up a high peak for the view only to find a parking lot full of luxury SUVs there. Why bother to climb? By becoming so accessible, geocaching has become less rewarding. So there's my take. Let's hear some other views.

If you ever find yourself in the Black Hills, gimme a buzz. We have plenty of caches (and events) around here that I know you'll enjoy. :D

 

Don / Do6FB

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Geocaches were almost always nice large ammo boxes or similar hiding styles in the remote woods or other non-urban areas.

 

And yet you own several micro caches. (13 of the last 20 you placed)

 

Complain about caches being to small, but hides small caches? I wonder why there's so many micros....

 

 

:rolleyes:

Ha-ha, it *seems* like the OP is busted for inconsistencies. ;)

 

Maybe not! :yikes:

 

Maybe he's just giving the young whippersnappers the caches they demand. Or maybe there aren't many available areas near home for ammo boxes.

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One thing that seems to remain the same is that folks will start forum threads that are essentially the same as other active forum threads. There are several going now that are essentially the same questions asked with different words. I've seen that in other (non-GPS-related) forums also.

And what does this post add to the discussion?

 

Actually, I think the OP's post expresses the idea more clearly and in much more depth. I got to thinking about the specific points and I agree with a lot of them. I started in '04 and met some great people locally within my first year. When a new cache was listed it was almost certainly worth going out for. We had some great events that usually included a bunch of new caches and some added games (and great food!).

 

Now, most of those players are gone. When a new cache is listed it is most likely a grocery store micro. I still meet great people at the events, but they are usually smaller get-togethers in a restaurant. When I'm preparing for a trip, green slime trails on the maps make me want to cry.

 

On the other hand, I like Google Earth and the dynamic maps. I started with an eXplorist 200, no maps, no hints, black and white screen. I like using my eXplorist 500 and have the iPhone available to check a cache page if I'm having trouble.

So, pros and cons... but I definitely miss the "old days." I still enjoy the game, but I'm glad I got to experience a different era.

 

Also, go be fair you should consider the OP's entire body of work when it comes to hides. He has some amazing puzzle caches as well as some good trads. He provides "something for everybody" probably more than most. (And written some pretty good books!)

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I agree with the OP on most of the things he said. My first gpsr had no mapping capabilities and was one that had a terrible time under tree cover. You followed the arrow, which many times, resulted in wrong turns and deadends. No paperless caching, no way to upload multiple waypoints in a single bound, and there was no google earth to play with. A cache page had basic information such as difficulty ratings, size of the container, and whatever the CO put on it. Most caches were regular in size and were placed in areas that were nice to visit. It took some planning to find caches back then and this planning was part of the fun. As the OP stated, you felt like you accomplished something when you found a cache. I too enjoyed caching more in those good ole days!

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I'm going to sound like an old fogy driving a Model T here...

I read your note and considered the points, and it finally dawned on me that you really nailed it right there in your opening phrase. You are acting exactly like an old car enthusiast. Old car enthusiasts have Model T groups to get together with, and Model T rallies, and they talk about Model Ts and look at each others Model Ts and buy and sell Model Ts and Model T parts. Feel free to do that by setting up a website which allows only that kind of cache. For one thing, the number of participants will be much closer to the number you remember from the good old days.

 

Meanwhile, the rest of us -- and probably most of those old car enthusiasts, too -- will drive around in reliable cars on freeways and enjoy the modern conveniences while driving from place to place. I understand reminiscing about using your own two hands to fix a broken car stuck in the mud on a rainy day. I really don't understand suggesting that's the way driving should be for all of us all the time.

 

I actually expected to be nodding my head in agreement with you, at least in part, even though I'm a relative newbie. After all, I do enjoy big caches out in the woods that not many people look for. But as I read your note, I found that, once we got past big containers with simple hides out in some quiet place away from the maddening crowds, most of the things you're looking for, I have no interest in. I'd love to come see your Model T once in a while. I don't want to own one.

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I'm not entirely innocent of the inconsistencies of which I'm "accused" but not entirely guilty either. First of all, as to the other thread, I saw the title but didn't click on it because I didn't read the subtitle. I thought from the title it was a discussion about a recent change in the website - a type of thread that regularly appears here. I thought it was someone complaining or wondering about what the latest Groundspeak innovation (whatever that may be - I don't keep track) did to change the sport. In any event, threads on this same old vs. new topic have regularly appeared, as the OP in that other thread acknowledged, so rather than dig up an old one by searching, I did the same thing he did and started a new thread. I confess I should have read that subtitle, though, and probably would have posted there if I had. And as for the micros vs. ammo boxes, it's not the container that's the point. As pointed out by one kind soul, it's very difficult to find a suitable location for a full-sized cache in my very cache-dense area. Many of my early caches were regulars or smalls, but eventually they almost got archived for all the usual reasons or converted to micros because groundskeepers removed the original containers. The last time I needed to place a full-sized cache I had to archive one I was maintaining for a friend who moved back to Europe and use that spot. (Before you flame me for that, his cache had a mechanical aspect to it that broke and I couldn't fix it, so it had to be archived anyway). The point is that when you found a cache back then there was a reward of some kind, even if it was just a nice big log book containing greetings and sometimes stories from geocachers from all over the world, or meeting a fellow cacher, or that disposable camera I mentioned. My micros don't usually contain swag, although I have put a tenner in a couple of them for the FTF. What I do try to do, though, is make the hide in theme so that there is that little "aha, that's clever" when you find it. The vast majority of my hides are puzzles. E.g. the hide for my Route Cipher cache is on a route marker. Several of the puzzle hides are on streets named consistently with the puzzle theme; I don't want to name them so I don't spoil the puzzle. But this thread wasn't meant to be about me. Most of the points made about my post are fair comment and not particularly mean-spirited, but I am disappointed that so many of the responses are about playing "gotcha" with me rather than addressing the subject of the thread. I do appreciate the above comments of those who share my views or like my hides, but I don't begrudge those who don't. Certainly the sport has room for everyone to play the way they want to and I don't want to deny anyone their preference.

 

But getting back to the original theme, is it better now or worse? In what way? It seems to me that when I get to most cache sites now and don't find the cache right away there's not much incentive to keep looking. I know there's almost no chance there's going to be anything different or rewarding there. It's not about the numbers for me, and even if it was, I know I can just move 530 feet and find another one just like this one. I make a point to try to find a route with caches that have several fav points to make the find worthwhile, but I find very few with a lot of favs are actually all that interesting. Maybe they have good camo, but so many are stuck in trash-strewn vacant lots or planter boxes, strip mall parking lots, and similar locations. I can sympathize with the difficulty in finding good hiding places, but why bother if you can't make the cache a little bit different or at least pleasant? I'm not even blaming the CO's. I think the main reason for the changes I am complaining about is simply that the sport has become too popular, too easy, too crowded.

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But getting back to the original theme, is it better now or worse?

 

I think this is a question which does not have a general answer that holds for everyone. First, there are things that have changed to the better and things that have changed to the worst. For most of the newer cachers geocaching as it is now is preferable (which does not mean that there are no negative aspects for them) while for cachers like yourself and myself I'd say that geocaching back then was preferable (not always for the same reasons, e.g. I never liked the challenge of long searches, but on average I have to search longer today when not calling it a day than back then as the hideouts were more characteristic and not chosen to pose a challenge for the eyes of geocachers - the GPS accuracy did not play a large role for that reason in most cases).

 

I think the main reason for the changes I am complaining about is simply that the sport has become too popular, too easy, too crowded.

 

Maybe in urban spots this is true. In many places of my country is not true at all and still geocaching has changed in a way I do not appreciate.

From my point of view the major reason in my area for the changes that I have observed is that the newer cachers have completely different preferences.

Many of them do not like to hiking at all - if they are confronted with a single multi cache that sends them out for a 15 km hike, they refuse to go there.

If they happen to go for a hike along a trail with a cache every 500m in a group of 10 people or more, it's rather the group experience and possibly the variety of the hideouts and

containers that they appreciate in a way that it lets them forget that they do not like hiking. That's also the reason why cache series along hiking trails where one has to bring along many different tools (more types of screwdrivers, pliers, magnets and other stuff than I even own) are very popular and have very high ratios of FPs while my idea of hiking is not spending more time with do it yourself kind work than with walking.

 

I'd say that the modern geocaching world has much more to offer for those for whom geocaching is like a PC game with outdoor components than to cachers for whom hiking, enjoying the nature etc comes first and caching comes secondary and should be easily combinable without ending up as a completely different activity.

 

I also noticed that among those who left geocaching or almost left I found many more like minded persons than in the group of the newer cachers (exceptions exist of course in both directions).

That fits to your experience.

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<snip>

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder about what's different in your area, because I've never found a rusted ammo can like how you're describing.

 

I suppose if a person put out an ammo can without sanding and painting it, the container could get rusty, but I've found a few of those and they're still openable.

 

Too bad, because I think they're the best sort of container.

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<snip>

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder about what's different in your area, because I've never found a rusted ammo can like how you're describing.

 

I suppose if a person put out an ammo can without sanding and painting it, the container could get rusty, but I've found a few of those and they're still openable.

 

Too bad, because I think they're the best sort of container.

 

They are lousy near the ocean or in acidic rain areas. I hid a brand new one, painted as well, as a paddle to in a marshland, but never got around to creating the intended puzzle for it. The following spring I went out to check on it and it was rusted shut. I managed to break it while trying to open it up. Another one under water (fresh water) lasted close to 3 years before getting plenty of rust holes.

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<snip>

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder about what's different in your area, because I've never found a rusted ammo can like how you're describing.

 

I suppose if a person put out an ammo can without sanding and painting it, the container could get rusty, but I've found a few of those and they're still openable.

 

Too bad, because I think they're the best sort of container.

 

They are lousy near the ocean or in acidic rain areas. I hid a brand new one, painted as well, as a paddle to in a marshland, but never got around to creating the intended puzzle for it. The following spring I went out to check on it and it was rusted shut. I managed to break it while trying to open it up. Another one under water (fresh water) lasted close to 3 years before getting plenty of rust holes.

Hm, I've found ammo cans along the west coast and in the Seattle area, with no problem. Maybe all the rain washes the salt away. :laughing:

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I've heard about a GPS that disappeared from an event while left on a table for a short time, which is not something that would have occurred in the past in a tightly knit group. Coins routinely go missing, as well as ammo cans. I has a few new cachers get rather upset because they wanted to me to award them with a find for arriving at GZ and discovering that a few kids took the cache home with them. Then there are the app users who don't have email addresses and often leave the cache out in the open. Don't really think that it's improving, but at least Groundspeak is making money. <_<

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<snip>

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder about what's different in your area, because I've never found a rusted ammo can like how you're describing.

 

I suppose if a person put out an ammo can without sanding and painting it, the container could get rusty, but I've found a few of those and they're still openable.

 

Too bad, because I think they're the best sort of container.

 

They are lousy near the ocean or in acidic rain areas. I hid a brand new one, painted as well, as a paddle to in a marshland, but never got around to creating the intended puzzle for it. The following spring I went out to check on it and it was rusted shut. I managed to break it while trying to open it up. Another one under water (fresh water) lasted close to 3 years before getting plenty of rust holes.

Hm, I've found ammo cans along the west coast and in the Seattle area, with no problem. Maybe all the rain washes the salt away. :laughing:

 

It could be. Here is an acid rain map.

 

RMC_US_Acid_Rain.png

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<snip>

 

I hate ammo cans. All except one that I have found were rusted so badly it was almost impossible to open them without hitting them with a rock.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder about what's different in your area, because I've never found a rusted ammo can like how you're describing.

 

I suppose if a person put out an ammo can without sanding and painting it, the container could get rusty, but I've found a few of those and they're still openable.

 

Too bad, because I think they're the best sort of container.

 

They are lousy near the ocean or in acidic rain areas. I hid a brand new one, painted as well, as a paddle to in a marshland, but never got around to creating the intended puzzle for it. The following spring I went out to check on it and it was rusted shut. I managed to break it while trying to open it up. Another one under water (fresh water) lasted close to 3 years before getting plenty of rust holes.

Hm, I've found ammo cans along the west coast and in the Seattle area, with no problem. Maybe all the rain washes the salt away. :laughing:

 

It could be. Here is an acid rain map.

 

RMC_US_Acid_Rain.png

We're so cool over here. ;)

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I agree with the OP on most of the things he said. My first gpsr had no mapping capabilities and was one that had a terrible time under tree cover. You followed the arrow, which many times, resulted in wrong turns and deadends. No paperless caching, no way to upload multiple waypoints in a single bound, and there was no google earth to play with. A cache page had basic information such as difficulty ratings, size of the container, and whatever the CO put on it. Most caches were regular in size and were placed in areas that were nice to visit. It took some planning to find caches back then and this planning was part of the fun. As the OP stated, you felt like you accomplished something when you found a cache. I too enjoyed caching more in those good ole days!

 

This could have been Chapter 1 in my own Geocaching auto-biography. Good memories. Now, not really. The Golden Era is over.

 

And it seems I am at Ground Zero of the acid rain hot zone, according to the map. I have a few Ammo Can hides and more than a few Ammo Can finds. Now and then you encounter a compromised seal on one. But completely rusted out? Never.

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I bought my gpsr in 2001, got confused on how to operate it, took the batteries out of it and sat it in the drawer. (I don't have or know how to use a cell phone either.) In 2012 I put the batteries back in it and began geocaching. The only thing I know how to do now is to watch the coord #'s change as I walk, so that is the only help I get from the gpsr. The planning for the day takes some time. Before caching, I read the listing of each cache, look at a map, write down the coords and make notes in my notebook... (8.5x11)size, take my clipboard, a pen and tb's, and take off for the hunt. I bet I have more fun and a greater sense of achievement than a lot of others do when they make a find. This is now my favorite hobby along with geocoin collecting. I'm just guessing, but I don't think I would have as much fun using a phone or a newer gpsr that makes caching easier.

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I think I cached with you once "The Rat" Good times. I agree with what you are saying but I also like the new way of caching. But then again that is all I know. I like that there are many caches out there now for me to find. If there was only a few hike to caches then I would probably be done by now. I found them all. The more the better for me but I play a bit differently then some probably want to.

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t took some planning to find caches back then and this planning was part of the fun. As the OP stated, you felt like you accomplished something when you found a cache. I too enjoyed caching more in those good ole days!

 

That's exactly the same as today-it takes time and planning to find the good ones, and when you find one, you feel like you accomplished something.

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But getting back to the original theme, is it better now or worse? In what way?...I think the main reason for the changes I am complaining about is simply that the sport has become too popular, too easy, too crowded.

I believe that it's better b/c you have more people getting into the hobby. You get new blood, fresh ideas, more opportunities to have an adventure, even if it is an "uncreative" cache. It got you up, it got you out, and it got you moving, which is the real point of this, isn't it?

 

When people complain that it's "too popular, too easy, too crowded" - in terms of video game language, that makes you an elitist jerk. What is an "elitist jerk," exactly? It's someone who wants people to conform to him, to his niche, and he dosen't want to let anyone else in his exclusive club b/c hey was an outcast at one time so now he wants to exclude others like he'd been excluded.

 

Now, please don't take that as a personal attack. I don't know you, or anything about you. I just know that is generally the feeling people get when there's an influx of newbies in anything that's been a closed circle of folks for a long time. I look at it this way: We were ALL newbies once. If you take 5 minutes to answer a question then you can make a person better for it, instead of looking down your noses like you are better than him. And if that newbie is just a plain disruptive troll, well, hey, can't he just get banned?

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If you call someone an "elitist jerk", based upon comments they made, how is this not a personal attack? <_<

I actually I said people in general, not the poster. Additionally I said I did not know the poster, nor do I know if this is how he feels. A general statement, "People are silly." isn't the same as specifically saying something "Gee, Bob is silly."

 

PS - Bob is a made up person in this case. :anibad:

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I actually I said people in general, not the poster. Additionally I said I did not know the poster, nor do I know if this is how he feels. A general statement, "People are silly." isn't the same as specifically saying something "Gee, Bob is silly."

 

PS - Bob is a made up person in this case. :anibad:

Psst, your font color and choice is really difficult to read.

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I actually I said people in general, not the poster. Additionally I said I did not know the poster, nor do I know if this is how he feels. A general statement, "People are silly." isn't the same as specifically saying something "Gee, Bob is silly."

 

PS - Bob is a made up person in this case. :anibad:

Psst, your font color and choice is really difficult to read.

+1

This old fart had to take an eye rest break after one of the longer posts. :laughing:

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Old-school members are often going to say the old ways were best.

 

New-school members are often going to say it's great now.

 

Middle-school members (like myself, early 2006) are often going to say both ways are awesome.

 

When I started, I had no paperless and I killed a lot of trees printing out cache information and pouring over road maps to find the best way to a cache. Now, all I have to do is pull it up on my phone. That's good progress. There are a lot more micros out than when I started, but that's not so bad. I like to cache and size doesn't matter as much as having fun.

 

I say, cache the way you want to cache. No one way or time period is better, so just enjoy the hobby as you see fit. :)

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Zanadian, you're free to believe what you want. I don't have to justify myself to anyone. Enjoy your day :)

 

cerberus1 & Panther&Pine - Thank you for the heads up. I didn't realize!! I'll just keep the standard font and go with a darker red. Thanks for the advice :) Is this better?

 

Arthur & Trillian - That's a good point you bring up. Yeah, sometimes the old ways WERE better, but sometimes the new ways are good as well, and I think you've really made a good point: Cache how you want to cache. Everything is what you make it out to be :)

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I believe that it's better b/c you have more people getting into the hobby. You get new blood, fresh ideas, more opportunities to have an adventure, even if it is an "uncreative" cache. It got you up, it got you out, and it got you moving, which is the real point of this, isn't it?

 

New blood,, yes.

Fresh ideas,,, very seldom.

More caches placed,,, yes.

More opportunities to have an adventure,,, i ain't seeing it.

More "uncreative" caches,,, yes.

 

There is too much monkey see, monkey do these days. Most new people don't care enough about geocaching to do any research. If they do hide, they hide just liked they found. Yes, there are a few new cachers who really get into the hobby and come up with new ideas. This usually isn't what happens. I don't have any real numbers but i'd guess that most people these days, try the app, find a few caches, hide one or two just like the ones they've found, then up and leave without saying a word.

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You get new blood, fresh ideas, more opportunities to have an adventure, even if it is an "uncreative" cache. It got you up, it got you out, and it got you moving, which is the real point of this, isn't it?

 

When people complain that it's "too popular, too easy, too crowded" - in terms of video game language, that makes you an elitist jerk. What is an "elitist jerk," exactly? It's someone who wants people to conform to him, to his niche, and he dosen't want to let anyone else in his exclusive club b/c hey was an outcast at one time so now he wants to exclude others like he'd been excluded.

 

Geocaching has changed up to a point where it is me who often feels excluded and it's me who often cannot find any similarities any longer between what geocaching meant to me and what I'm confronted with today.

 

Those who want to practice for a Bach concerto will not be that happy about the fresh blood of those who are members of a heavy metal band and hate classical music. (The comparison is a bit exxagerated, but sometimes it describes my feelings quite well.)

 

 

 

Cezanne

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...As pointed out by one kind soul, it's very difficult to find a suitable location for a full-sized cache in my very cache-dense area...

 

...I think the main reason for the changes I am complaining about is simply that the sport has become too popular, too easy, too crowded.

 

Colour me confused. You preferred the good old days when there were few caches, they were well placed and they were large. I understand. You live in a cache dense area but can't help yourself from adding to the density of caches by throwing out more small/micro caches that you dislike...? And with whatever justification, you won't grant other new cache hiders the same benefit of the doubt, as in it's ok for you but not for them? :blink:

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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One thing that doesn't change is that there are plenty of people that lose interest. Many perhaps get tired of finding caches that need maintenance and decide that it isn't fun anymore. Then they lose interest and abandon their own hides..

 

Others may not like the direction the game is going, and calling them elitist jerks is not going to bring them back.

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:blink: Next you'll be enjoying Duct Taped Ziplock Baggies as the coolest thing since sliced bread. :angry:

 

Then there is those that complain about my Impresshin Logs which are foil HVAC Tape, waterproof and durable. :anibad:

 

Everyone has their own idea of what can be used but boil it down it becomes the concept of use common sense.... no really, please.

 

OK... I'll step away from the soapbox and let YOU decide which is right.

 

Remember it is just a game to be enjoyed by you. :lol::DB)

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Others may not like the direction the game is going, and calling them elitist jerks is not going to bring them back.

People who act in the manor I described don't make newer cachers feel welcome, either. I get it, some want a pencil, paper, and a GPS. But just b/c there's an easier way of doing things doesn't make it any less exciting. I think if I'd have read some of the posts I'd read today when I first started caching, I probably would have cried and quit b/c some people seem to come off as bullies. When I pick a few caches out to find, I get excited no matter what they are. Yes, I prefer the larger caches, but I don't mind the small, annoying ones either. I got up from my computer and I got away from burning almost 0 calories to going out and having a small workout. Maybe I don't do it often enough to get burned of the same thing over and over again. Ponder this. If you think that you're being called out as an elitist jerk and that makes you feel bad, imagine how saying new players and new ways of caching are terrible and ruining the game are making the newbies feel.

 

*Sigh* Seeing this kind of stuff is why I seldom visit message boards in general anymore.

 

PS - I give up on the cool fonts. You are all boring :P

(And really, let me spell it out - that would be a sarcastic joke...smh, you never can tell anymore.)

 

EDIT - Grammar error.

Edited by Darth_Tyress
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I think if I'd have read some of the posts I'd read today when I first started caching, I probably would have cried and quit b/c some people seem to come off as bullies.

 

I guess you probably mix up the threads. The OP did not claim that the new cachers ruin the game.

What he wrote was rather from a very personal perspective. Let's look at an example: Suppose who enjoyed to visit a beautiful and lonesome place for years and suddenly many people go visit the place and it is almost always crowded. The attractivity of the place for you will decrease. Is is not about blaming anyone as of course everyone has the same right to visit the place, it's just a matter of fact that the experience will change and it will not be any more the same as it is used to be.

 

Yes, I prefer the larger caches, but I don't mind the small, annoying ones either. I got up from my computer and I got away from burning almost 0 calories to going out and having a small workout. Maybe I don't do it often enough to get burned of the same thing over and over again.

 

I'm one of those old-timers who enjoyed geocaching back then more than I do today, but not because I got burned out of doing the same thing over and over again. Actually, there is more variety nowadays than back then at least in my area. I like standard containers hidden in standard hideouts - what counts for me is the physical activity and enjoying nice places in the nature.

So I prefer a micro hidden in a tree stump that is reachable only via a 10km hike through a forest to an extremely creative cache that is a drive-in where I spend at most 5 minutes with the walk and 30 minutes with finding and opening the cache. If someone wants to burn calories by means of geocaching, most creative caches in my area are not really well suited for that purpose and

it is also not enough to visit a couple of caches every few months.

 

I'm happy about every new cacher who has similar geocaching preferences than I have - however this set is almost empty as most newer caches (that's not the same as newbie as some of these newer caches have considerably more finds as I have) have completely different preferences up to point where I feel excluded.

 

 

Cezanne

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Old-school members are often going to say the old ways were best.

 

New-school members are often going to say it's great now.

 

Middle-school members (like myself, early 2006) are often going to say both ways are awesome.

 

This is pretty much it.

For any subject.

For any date.

 

Whether it's geocaching between 2002, 2006, and 2014, or video games from 1985, 2000, to 2014, or driving Model T's from 1910 to 1930 to 2000. It's everywhere.

 

Seriously, I'm in other forums where things "have changed" over the years and the exact same arguments are repeatedly raised about old vs new.

 

What I don't get is when someone posts a 'personal experience' for discussion (on any topic here), then get surprised or angry when there are disagreeable responses. What did you expect? You shoulda put a disclaimer "Please only reply if you agree" ;)

 

This is also an issue of things changing bit by bit over time, which you don't notice until you look way back at the way things "used to be". Things changed, slowly over the years, for a reason; it's not some big conspiracy or downfall of a pastime. It was a natural growth due to technology, culture, nature, preferences, technical adjustments, community growth (hey it's an "invite only" sport), etc. Sometimes we just get older and we can't or don't want to do what we used to do. I found that out this past week with something else.

 

The nice thing is, in geocaching, much of what you used to do, you can still do. The way you cache doesn't have to change. The only thing that's really affected as posted above are the effects of saturation. Otherwise, caches you want to find are still out there. Just surrounded by more of what you may not want to find. More people enjoy the sport. But it's still a "secret society" type of thing - seriously.

 

And please don't blame "smartphones". That's a tool people use for geocaching. There are people like as you describe who start off with handhelds who are just as bad, and there amazing beginners who greatly respect the geocaching 'spirit' who are nothing like the described. Smartphones today make the hobby more accessible to the problematic newcomers, but that's as far as it goes.

 

The OP is not an "elitist jerk". Nostalgia is perfectly fine, and expected (heck I reminisce about 2009 when I started and how much things have changed). But the tone of reminiscing can be quite condescending to those who do enjoy the way things are now.

Edited by thebruce0
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The leisure activity is still the same at the core, the fundamental difference between "New vs. Old" is the attitude, experience, and perception of the cacher.

 

... They point out that when people make judgments about things, they usually do it in relation to something else. For example, when they say that a concert is excellent, they mean that it is excellent compared to the concerts they have seen up to that point.

...

 

When we look back on events from our youth, we are likely to remember many things as being excellent, or awesome, or brilliant. We just forget how we decided on their excellence or brilliance. With a broader base of experience as an adult, it takes a lot for us to be truly awed. So we decide that things must have been better when we were younger.

The tools and techniques around the leisure activity may have evolved but the key activity is still there, even if you have to look harder within yourself to find it.

 

Most cachers regardless of start date will fondly (and nostalgically) recall the first 10, 50, or 100 caches because the new found bloom and enthusiasm of the activity was high. Most, if honest with themselves were mildly impressed with the first LPC they found regardless of their opinion now. The same goes for the triumph of the first nano find and how small they really are.

 

Now based on the breadth and depth of caching experiences you know what you like and what you don't like; what gives you that "nostalgic" good feeling and what gives you that downer of not another ________ cache.

 

If cachers start looking within they may just find there is no difference between "New vs. Old".

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Others may not like the direction the game is going, and calling them elitist jerks is not going to bring them back.

People who act in the manor I described don't make newer cachers feel welcome, either. I get it, some want a pencil, paper, and a GPS. But just b/c there's an easier way of doing things doesn't make it any less exciting. I think if I'd have read some of the posts I'd read today when I first started caching, I probably would have cried and quit b/c some people seem to come off as bullies. When I pick a few caches out to find, I get excited no matter what they are. Yes, I prefer the larger caches, but I don't mind the small, annoying ones either. I got up from my computer and I got away from burning almost 0 calories to going out and having a small workout. Maybe I don't do it often enough to get burned of the same thing over and over again. Ponder this. If you think that you're being called out as an elitist jerk and that makes you feel bad, imagine how saying new players and new ways of caching are terrible and ruining the game are making the newbies feel.

 

*Sigh* Seeing this kind of stuff is why I seldom visit message boards in general anymore.

 

PS - I give up on the cool fonts. You are all boring :P

(And really, let me spell it out - that would be a sarcastic joke...smh, you never can tell anymore.)

 

EDIT - Grammar error.

 

At one time I enjoyed reading the logbook inside the cache. That experience has gone. Online logs were supposed to be the subsitute but that is disappearing quickly as well. Now what you can expect are logs mostly 3 words or less and with the cache eventually being left out in the open. Yes, mostly new people are doing it, but they really can't be blamed as they are only following what they see. The intro app doesn't have any guidance and it doesn't verify email addresses, so the product is rather predictable.

Here is a good example of the demise of a nice hide.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCN395_its-not-even-an-island?guid=77e02585-691e-4eae-91ce-c62db8329d49

 

Compare the logs from 2005 to today. The change is evident. It's like returning to a very nice neighborhood and finding many of the houses boarded up and properties abandoned. Then saying "what happened?", results in someone calling you an elitist who should deal with it.

 

The adoptive CO joined when geocaching was much different and has hidden plenty of nice caches, but it appears that they have lost interest. Why? I don't know, but I have a good idea. Several other 3 word finders will fill their place and gift all of the local parking lots with pill bottles. Again, I'm not blaming them as they are only following what they see. Yes everyone can play their own way, but to pretend that nobody is affected is being misled.

 

If cachers start looking within they may just find there is no difference between "New vs. Old".

 

If you examine the logs of new versus old, you may find there is a difference.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I like standard containers hidden in standard hideouts - what counts for me is the physical activity and enjoying nice places in the nature.

One of the big factors I'm seeing is that most old timers were nature lovers that added geocaching when it became available. So the move away from being an in-nature game disappoints them.

 

I'm very similar to cezanne: what counts for me is the physical activity and enjoying places. The places being nice and in nature can be a bonus, but those aren't requirements for me because I also enjoy walking around and discovering neighborhoods or industrial parks I've never seen before. So for me, having caches in those locations still makes geocaching better even though they typically can't be very big and often have run-of-the-mill hiding places. And while they don't require a long walk, that just means I have to invent a long walk involving them to satisfy my desire for physical activity.

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By becoming so accessible, geocaching has become less rewarding.

That's certainly one way of looking at it. Here's another: By being so accessible, geocaching has become rewarding to more people.

 

There are still ammo cans out in the woods to find, but it just isn't the same kind of accomplishment. It's sort of like a mountain climber who struggles up a high peak for the view only to find a parking lot full of luxury SUVs there.

If you judge your accomplishments based on others', then you'll often feel disappointed. The view from the high peak is still spectacular, even when many people enjoy it. And if you climb up the side of the mountain to get there, then you get to enjoy the journey as well. Seems like a win-win situation to me.

 

If you enjoy using paper maps instead of e-maps, then use paper maps; they're still available.

 

If you prefer mountain caches more than urban caches, then seek mountain caches; they're still available.

 

If you find good camo makes a cache hard, unpleasant, and frustrating to look for, then avoid those types of hides; there are plenty of other caches out there.

 

Meanwhile, those geocachers who prefer to use e-maps to find well camouflaged urban caches can do so. This activity can accommodate a wide variety of preferences.

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The leisure activity is still the same at the core, the fundamental difference between "New vs. Old" is the attitude, experience, and perception of the cacher.

 

... They point out that when people make judgments about things, they usually do it in relation to something else. For example, when they say that a concert is excellent, they mean that it is excellent compared to the concerts they have seen up to that point.

...

 

When we look back on events from our youth, we are likely to remember many things as being excellent, or awesome, or brilliant. We just forget how we decided on their excellence or brilliance. With a broader base of experience as an adult, it takes a lot for us to be truly awed. So we decide that things must have been better when we were younger.

The tools and techniques around the leisure activity may have evolved but the key activity is still there, even if you have to look harder within yourself to find it.

 

Most cachers regardless of start date will fondly (and nostalgically) recall the first 10, 50, or 100 caches because the new found bloom and enthusiasm of the activity was high. Most, if honest with themselves were mildly impressed with the first LPC they found regardless of their opinion now. The same goes for the triumph of the first nano find and how small they really are.

 

Now based on the breadth and depth of caching experiences you know what you like and what you don't like; what gives you that "nostalgic" good feeling and what gives you that downer of not another ________ cache.

 

If cachers start looking within they may just find there is no difference between "New vs. Old".

 

I do quite a bit of looking "within" and definitely see a difference between new and old. One of the ways i've tried to adapt is to pretty much only go for caches i think will be interesting to me. Unfortunately, these are few and far between now days. I really don't mind putting some effort into searching out these caches but it is a bit disheartening when so very few come up. I really feel that numbers are what drive most people these days. Geocaching is no longer about location. It's now a game to see how many you can get. Not really anything wrong if this is the game you want to play (majority rules i suppose) but it's not worth a hoot for us who desire quality, creativity, challenge, and/or nice location.

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I do quite a bit of looking "within" and definitely see a difference between new and old. One of the ways i've tried to adapt is to pretty much only go for caches i think will be interesting to me. Unfortunately, these are few and far between now days. I really don't mind putting some effort into searching out these caches but it is a bit disheartening when so very few come up. I really feel that numbers are what drive most people these days. Geocaching is no longer about location. It's now a game to see how many you can get. Not really anything wrong if this is the game you want to play (majority rules i suppose) but it's not worth a hoot for us who desire quality, creativity, challenge, and/or nice location.

So defeatist.

 

They are out there.

Geocaching, as a whole, is far from being about the numbers. There are some who play that way, who focus on that, yes. There are many newcomers who don't 'get' how things used to be done, yes. But there IS most definitely still quality, creativity, challenge, and certainly nice location. I hate it when people compare the "past" with the "new" and imply somehow those properties are rare if not non-existent. I'm presuming you weren't meaning to say that on the greater scale, but that's the way it comes off when you saying something like "it's not worth a hoot for us who desire quality, creativity, challenge, and/or nice location". Dude. LOADS of us still do, and there's still loads of it out there! If you do prefer that, then continue to promote it, encourage it, and play it that way. There's is absolutely nothing stopping you/us from doing so.

Edited by thebruce0
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When I started in 2002 there was no such thing as a smart phone, a nano cache, or GoogleEarth. GPS units like my original yellow eTrex often had little or no satellite reception and normally had only 50 - 100 feet of accuracy.

 

I stumbled across my first cache in 2003 and found a few caches without a GPS. It was a lot harder to do that in those days, so I started in earnest in 2004 after I broke down and got a used Magellan meridian. It was a nice unit. Accurate. It supported mapping. And I quickly got a cheap PDA so caching was paperless. But the iPhone app (Geosphere) makes it much better. And the gpsrs that I now have are more fun to use. It is not the technology that makes me nostalgic.

 

In my area, caches were generally placed to bring you to bring you to interesting locations. I planned out areas where I wanted people to go, discovered new areas by poring through trail books and hiking out there, and followed where other people had placed caches. I became an ammo-can-in-the-woods type of cacher.

 

There was a core group of cachers, and many of us remain friends. Most are no longer active in this game, some were worn down as the game began to change, others found new relationships or interests. But I look back upon that time and have some good memories.

 

At some point, there were puzzle caches that required intense computer skills, higher math, or twisted logic. I soon learned that I did not need to solve those just because one was listed in my area. There were other caches to find.

 

The game to me was never just about finding a container, but what experience that could bring. So I was disappointed when we lost locationless caches and virtuals began to slowly disappear. The GSA came up with earthcaches, and they continue to take me to interesting places, often where containers are not permitted.

 

Then the game truly hit critical mass. Numbers exploded. People placed caches in parking lots simply because there was no other container within 528 feet. And with nanos you could place something anywhere for any reason, or without any reason. So I found myself driving by more caches than I would stop to find.

 

In my area, though, caching remains a fringe game. There are still a few new caches that get placed, but a lot of them are by teens who discover the game, place a few poor containers (old glue sticks and the like) and then move on when they discover girls or boys. I no longer bother to put those on my ignore list. Instead, I will see if a cache interests me enough to put it into the app. The game still involves planning. It is just a different type of plan. It helps if a cache is a letterbox hybrid, a Wherigo, or something that might involve more than a smiley.

 

When I travel, I see broad swaths of green icons and quickly filter them out. Still, if we decide to hike or bike somewhere, we will see what caches are near the trail. If I want to photograph something, I will see if there is a nearby cache. And when kayaking, I will look to see if there are any caches where we will be paddling - some of my favorite areas - two of the most beautiful rivers in the state where we kayaked last weekend - lack caches on the water, so there is still room for new things.

 

The game has changed. Technology has changed. I have changed. But after a two year hiatus a holiday event is again being planned. I look forward to seeing some of the old timers. Perhaps we can get a group hike together.

Edited by geodarts
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Hiding caches has changed, especially after the "don't hide a cache every .1 miles" rule was dropped.

 

I've always enjoyed hiding caches. We usually hide one or two a year. Back in 2002 we had carte blanche. Could hide in the most interesting locations around. Could take days/weeks to explore/plan and execute our cache hides.

 

Today, if we are fortunate enough to have a new park or new trail open up, we have to act quickly. It'll get scooped up and often by carpet bombers. And sometimes they haven't placed their cache yet but have reserved their spots in advance. In the old days, we use to find a spot, plant the cache, record the lat/long,take a couple of days to work on the cache page, submit the cache and never had a problem with a nearby cache. Now there's often a mystery cache, stage of a multi, ignored cache, or reserved spot nearby. We stopped planting a cache beforehand and instead contact a reviewer to see if a spot is available before investing too much time and thought into the cache. Hiding is competitive and it feels like a dash to get a spot.

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