A funny thing happened to GPS today

[+Arthurlie]

Was out caching today in Paisley Uk. Got to start of trail about 0.2 miles from First GZ and started up app on iPhone 4s. Have done over 1k caches with this setup and has always been ok today first thing I noticed was blue spot was nowhere near where we actually were maybe about 0.3 of a mile away knew where cache was roughly so set off thinking gps would settle as normal and narrow down to where we really were but nope it didn't said accur,acy was 1048 metres and stayed like this while we cached using the map and visible way points to get close. The gps still hadn't settled it was indicating red which I take it means poor signal from satellites. I switched to maps app and hit locate me icon and it jumped about all over the place still roughly 0.3 miles from where we really were. Tried a phone restart still same tried killing restarting app no difference. My sister took out her iPhone 5s and tried hers and map screen said having trouble locating you. We were outside in a field with clear skies and no hills or anything high to obstruct signal. It stayed like his for about 45 mins when it just suddenly all worked as normal. We were on our 4th cache on the trail by this time first 3 we managed just with map. Looked up GPS site to see if there had been any outages but it saiid no. Anyone have any idea what caused same thing on 2 separate phones is an outage the only thing it could have been ?

[Clan Riffster]

I wonder if the new GPS satellite they just sent up had anything to do with it?

Maybe it was getting linked into the network?

[+WarNinjas]

I have been having this problem a lot! I hate it and got a replacement phone and same thing. This is the samsung galaxy note so not a cheep phone and it used to work great all the time! Once I zoomed out to see where I was and I was in africa!

[+WarNinjas]

I have been having this problem a lot! I hate it and got a replacement phone and same thing. This is the samsung galaxy note so not a cheep phone and it used to work great all the time! Once I zoomed out to see where I was and I was in africa!

[+RIclimber]

It's an easy fix.

 

Step #1. Buy a real GPS.

Setp #2. Use your phone to make phone calls.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

Was out caching today in Paisley Uk. Got to start of trail about 0.2 miles from First GZ and started up app on iPhone 4s. Have done over 1k caches with this setup and has always been ok today first thing I noticed was blue spot was nowhere near where we actually were maybe about 0.3 of a mile away knew where cache was roughly so set off thinking gps would settle as normal and narrow down to where we really were but nope it didn't said accur,acy was 1048 metres and stayed like this while we cached using the map and visible way points to get close. The gps still hadn't settled it was indicating red which I take it means poor signal from satellites. I switched to maps app and hit locate me icon and it jumped about all over the place still roughly 0.3 miles from where we really were. Tried a phone restart still same tried killing restarting app no difference. My sister took out her iPhone 5s and tried hers and map screen said having trouble locating you. We were outside in a field with clear skies and no hills or anything high to obstruct signal. It stayed like his for about 45 mins when it just suddenly all worked as normal. We were on our 4th cache on the trail by this time first 3 we managed just with map. Looked up GPS site to see if there had been any outages but it saiid no. Anyone have any idea what caused same thing on 2 separate phones is an outage the only thing it could have been ?

I only had a slight hick-up the other state over across the pond. I'd more suspect the cellular network as the iPhone can and often uses the normal GPS and tower triangulation algorithms for location positioning. Typically why the phones are quite accurate.

 

I wonder if the new GPS satellite they just sent up had anything to do with it?

Maybe it was getting linked into the network?

To early to be that far yet. First they need to get the geostationary synchronization perfected.

 

It's an easy fix.

 

Step #1. Buy a real GPS.

Setp #2. Use your phone to make phone calls.

TERRIBLE ADVICE. iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy in all but a few cases. Especially true when cell tower reception is good as it uses that technology as well as the normal GPS. If you aren't getting better accuracy, check the end user.

[+Arthurlie]

Thanks I have a dedicated GPS its lying in the car with flat battery. Bought it when I was convinced Iphone wasn't as accurate in woods etc used it for a few weeks didn't find it any better and the added hastle of transferring caches from PC to it out way any benefits it may have for me anyway.

Didn't occur to me that cell towers would be a factor in working out position but would make sense for the fact it was only a local event. Got another 3 to do in same area so be interesting to see if anything else happens, did enjoy he challenge of finding the first 3 caches with just the map but was definitely more time consuming than being led more or less straight to the cache.

[Clan Riffster]

iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy

Actually, this is incorrect. Though the difference is usually very minor. Even the best smart phones still use patch style antennas. These patch style antennas cannot absorb the degree of signal which the antenna in a mid level or greater handheld.

[+Manville Possum]

iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy

Actually, this is incorrect. Though the difference is usually very minor. Even the best smart phones still use patch style antennas. These patch style antennas cannot absorb the degree of signal which the antenna in a mid level or greater handheld.

I'll second that very misleading statment.

[+Arthurlie]

GPS test

 

Smartphones tested for accuracy using their own gps chipset then external consumer quality gps then finally a pro gps. For me shows that under most conditions they are more than accurate enough but not more accurate than a dedicated gps. Am sure there are many debates about it but its all a bit off topic.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy

Actually, this is incorrect. Though the difference is usually very minor. Even the best smart phones still use patch style antennas. These patch style antennas cannot absorb the degree of signal which the antenna in a mid level or greater handheld.

Every test I've done and most of the people I've seen do RELIABLE testing show the phones do great. They just have limited battery time and do start to falter vs the handheld when off the cell networks (rural areas). I've got to get a video together to show the proof. I'm sick of people thinking otherwise but never done a test outside of geocaching (I compared using official geodetic survey marks for accuracy).

[+Manville Possum]

iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy

Actually, this is incorrect. Though the difference is usually very minor. Even the best smart phones still use patch style antennas. These patch style antennas cannot absorb the degree of signal which the antenna in a mid level or greater handheld.

Every test I've done and most of the people I've seen do RELIABLE testing show the phones do great. They just have limited battery time and do start to falter vs the handheld when off the cell networks (rural areas). I've got to get a video together to show the proof. I'm sick of people thinking otherwise but never done a test outside of geocaching (I compared using official geodetic survey marks for accuracy).

I have done testing outside of geocaching also and understand antennas, as I would expect you also to understand, knowing that you too are a amature radio operator. I have tested GPS units during solar flares just to see how far off they are, very similar to what the OP experienced happens.

[+WarNinjas]

Out of our 2522 finds only 2522 of them were found using our cell phones. We bought a nice gps at the start but I cant remember ever using it to make a find. I am sure they are more accurate but we have just not used it. I hear we can download better maps for it and want to use it but the directions and all on the cell phone are so helpful that we always end up using it instead.

[+ras_oscar]

I have always used a dedicated GPS, so I have no basis for comparison. I would be interested in seeing a side by side objective comparison between the 2 conducted over several days. I recommend the "stake in the back yard" method. Any volunteers? Dueling assertions without objective data doesn't provide any real information.

[+funkymunkyzone]

I switch back and forth on a regular basis - for a day's caching somewhere I'll use an Oregon 650 (or sometimes a 550, and in the past a 60csx), and for a quick "pop out for a cache" or an FTF dash, I'll use a Samsung Galaxy S4. The dedicated GPS tends to be more "the cache is there" and points to it without much wandering, but the phone does tend to wander a little bit, not significantly more, but noticeably nonetheless. That said, I tend to find that most GPS device owners (phone, dedicated, whatever) will defend their own device to their dying breath!

[+hzoi]

I have used my cell phone (Samsung Captivate Glide) for a handful of finds. It is nowhere near as accurate as our handheld GPSr's have been -- tends to lose signal often, accuracy frequently jumps from 20-odd feet to a mile or so. I have done zero homework to see how its GPS accuracy stands up to other phones; all I know is that I only us it for spur of the moment caches, when I either don't have my GPSr with me or don't have local caches loaded in it.

[+Mudfrog]

I have used my cell phone (Samsung Captivate Glide) for a handful of finds. It is nowhere near as accurate as our handheld GPSr's have been -- tends to lose signal often, accuracy frequently jumps from 20-odd feet to a mile or so. I have done zero homework to see how its GPS accuracy stands up to other phones; all I know is that I only us it for spur of the moment caches, when I either don't have my GPSr with me or don't have local caches loaded in it.

 

I second this! I've tried using my phone a few times and have found that it definitely doesn't work as well as my old Garmin 76csx. Doesn't matter if the phone is used in a wide open field or under trees, it has a harder time getting me to ground zero. The other thing i think about is that i tend to be a bit rough on the gpsr (get it wet, drop it, etc,,). Doubt the phone would hold up very long under the same circumstances.

 

On topic, i doubt it was the phone causing the issues. Something solar related possibly?

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

I have done testing outside of geocaching also and understand antennas, as I would expect you also to understand, knowing that you too are a amature radio operator. I have tested GPS units during solar flares just to see how far off they are, very similar to what the OP experienced happens.

Hahahaha, I laughed at the "amature" vs amateur (just a typo, I know) radio op. I actually need to renew, but yes, twenty years into that hobby (laughed cause you could say I'm "a mature" radio op). Definitely don't dispute the antenna effects and you are correct in that it can change the results. That said, if the antenna is good enough, the difference may not be percievable. I'm also reading more and more that the iPhone (and Galaxy I think) seem to be the better performers and not all cell phones are created equal (and hence correct is saying that GPSs on the whole are better than cell phones on the whole). I probably should clarify my point in that iPhones are just as good as a GPS or better, not "cell phones".

 

I have used my cell phone (Samsung Captivate Glide) for a handful of finds. It is nowhere near as accurate as our handheld GPSr's have been -- tends to lose signal often, accuracy frequently jumps from 20-odd feet to a mile or so. I have done zero homework to see how its GPS accuracy stands up to other phones; all I know is that I only us it for spur of the moment caches, when I either don't have my GPSr with me or don't have local caches loaded in it.

 

I second this! I've tried using my phone a few times and have found that it definitely doesn't work as well as my old Garmin 76csx. Doesn't matter if the phone is used in a wide open field or under trees, it has a harder time getting me to ground zero. The other thing i think about is that i tend to be a bit rough on the gpsr (get it wet, drop it, etc,,). Doubt the phone would hold up very long under the same circumstances.

 

On topic, i doubt it was the phone causing the issues. Something solar related possibly?

See note above, maker dependent.

 

I will say, that recently there have been some times the iPhone has not been settling, whereas I suspect my GPS might (not a test so this is just anecdotal for now). In part one is due to the urban/city environment, so that is known, but the others have been in the open. It certainly isn't across the board. My two GPS units I've done testing area Garmin GPS V and the 60CSX also from Garmin. The second a very popular model among both geocachers and hikers.

 

So the OP might have noticed something that in fact is a little bit of fluctuation of signals. As I noted, hardly see a bad/jumpy signal but last few days have seen an above average jump of the accuracy.

Edited February 28, 2014 by TheWeatherWarrior

[Clan Riffster]

RELIABLE testing show the phones do great.

No one is arguing otherwise. I am an advocate of using smart phones for caching. In most conditions they provide more than adequate accuracy for this hobby, and for caching on the fly, when you don't have a PQ handy, they're tough to beat. But your initial statement was not that smart phones are great. Your statement was "iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy". When discussing things like accuracy, (or more correctly, precision), even the smallest difference matters. When you engage in an activity involving reception of signals, using an antenna which is less able to absorb that signal, (what most would call 'weaker'), the end result must be a reduction in precision. The patch style antenna used in the most modern iPhones, as well as other high end smart phones, are less able to absorb signal than the antennas used in high end GPS units.

 

In summation:

 

Are smart phones good enough for this hobby?

Mostly.

 

Are smart phones as precise as high end GPS units?

No.

[+Arthurlie]

And what if cache coordinates were set using an iphone would that mean another iphone would likely be more precise at locating the coordinates even though they may be off slightly from true gps coordinates and duplicate the original COs error. Too many variations to make any sense out of most of it unless your testing like for like. Stick in backyard method how does that work ? Is it the same as traversing different terrains hand holding your chosen device. Anyway been using Iphones since the original one up to a 4s havnt upgraded that yet and its first time it hasn't located me to within a few metres of where I actually am, am a taxi driver I use the map app a lot on my work and it has never been that far off until this time.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

No one is arguing otherwise. I am an advocate of using smart phones for caching. In most conditions they provide more than adequate accuracy for this hobby, and for caching on the fly, when you don't have a PQ handy, they're tough to beat. But your initial statement was not that smart phones are great. Your statement was "iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy". When discussing things like accuracy, (or more correctly, precision), even the smallest difference matters. When you engage in an activity involving reception of signals, using an antenna which is less able to absorb that signal, (what most would call 'weaker'), the end result must be a reduction in precision. The patch style antenna used in the most modern iPhones, as well as other high end smart phones, are less able to absorb signal than the antennas used in high end GPS units.

 

In summation:

 

Are smart phones good enough for this hobby?

Mostly.

 

Are smart phones as precise as high end GPS units?

No.

Well, I stand by that point (where you have highlighted in blue), at least with iPhones. They are better because they are faster to settle and work in more places than a GPS. Both have shortfalls on accuracy but the GPS tends to have more fault than the iPhones. I did say "other phones" assuming that the technology was similar but that assertion may be wrong. That is the part I have NOT tested. Edited March 1, 2014 by TheWeatherWarrior

[MoonPie Mafia]

And what if cache coordinates were set using an iphone would that mean another iphone would likely be more precise at locating the coordinates even though they may be off slightly from true gps coordinates and duplicate the original COs error. Too many variations to make any sense out of most of it unless your testing like for like. Stick in backyard method how does that work ? Is it the same as traversing different terrains hand holding your chosen device. Anyway been using Iphones since the original one up to a 4s havnt upgraded that yet and its first time it hasn't located me to within a few metres of where I actually am, am a taxi driver I use the map app a lot on my work and it has never been that far off until this time.

Terrain is another issue. I use a iPhone for geocaching and compared it with a Garmin Venture Hc while on a drive today through the coal fields of eastern Kentucky. The iPhone and XM radio both lost service in the same location when coming up the divide into Virginia, but the GPS unit stayed on course. Also as pointed out by another member here, weather effects radio signals. I did a test during a solar flare about a year ago with a GPS unit on tracking mode that was left stationary. It moved more than 300 feet in all directions. About the same time this thread was posted a winter storm front was moving in and radio communication was clear on 10 meters to Barbados and San Juan. It's normal that I can only communicate that far south in winter months only and not in the summer. If we had an expert in the field of weather and radio communications in this thread it would benefit the topic, as we are not discussing the subject of are Iphones great and wonderful for geocaching. We already have plenty of those threads that can be bumped if needed.

[+Colonial Cats]

RELIABLE testing show the phones do great.

No one is arguing otherwise. I am an advocate of using smart phones for caching. In most conditions they provide more than adequate accuracy for this hobby, and for caching on the fly, when you don't have a PQ handy, they're tough to beat. But your initial statement was not that smart phones are great. Your statement was "iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy". When discussing things like accuracy, (or more correctly, precision), even the smallest difference matters. When you engage in an activity involving reception of signals, using an antenna which is less able to absorb that signal, (what most would call 'weaker'), the end result must be a reduction in precision. The patch style antenna used in the most modern iPhones, as well as other high end smart phones, are less able to absorb signal than the antennas used in high end GPS units.

 

In summation:

 

Are smart phones good enough for this hobby?

Mostly.

 

Are smart phones as precise as high end GPS units?

No.

I agree with Clan Riffster. Wait until you drop your iPhone in the mud and then talk about the IPhone's GPS superiority.

[+SwineFlew]

If you want to hide a cache, just please use to handheld GPS and not a phone.

 

I find that handheld GPS find GZ faster than a smartphone.

 

The whole thing here is that GS been marketing geocaching.com to smartphone users. So that make many newbie cachers think that smartphone with a GPS is the way to go. When you market something like using a smartphone to geocache, it will backfire.

 

I use the smartphone for looking up the cache pages.

[+Colonial Cats]

There is no way that a smart phone's GPS function is ever better than that of a true GPSr.

[+wmpastor]

Was out caching today in Paisley Uk. Got to start of trail about 0.2 miles from First GZ and started up app on iPhone 4s. Have done over 1k caches with this setup and has always been ok today first thing I noticed was blue spot was nowhere near where we actually were maybe about 0.3 of a mile away knew where cache was roughly so set off thinking gps would settle as normal and narrow down to where we really were but nope it didn't said accur,acy was 1048 metres and stayed like this while we cached using the map and visible way points to get close. The gps still hadn't settled it was indicating red which I take it means poor signal from satellites. I switched to maps app and hit locate me icon and it jumped about all over the place still roughly 0.3 miles from where we really were. Tried a phone restart still same tried killing restarting app no difference. My sister took out her iPhone 5s and tried hers and map screen said having trouble locating you. We were outside in a field with clear skies and no hills or anything high to obstruct signal. It stayed like his for about 45 mins when it just suddenly all worked as normal. We were on our 4th cache on the trail by this time first 3 we managed just with map. Looked up GPS site to see if there had been any outages but it saiid no. Anyone have any idea what caused same thing on 2 separate phones is an outage the only thing it could have been ?

I only had a slight hick-up the other state over across the pond. I'd more suspect the cellular network as the iPhone can and often uses the normal GPS and tower triangulation algorithms for location positioning. Typically why the phones are quite accurate.

 

I wonder if the new GPS satellite they just sent up had anything to do with it?

Maybe it was getting linked into the network?

To early to be that far yet. First they need to get the geostationary synchronization perfected.

 

It's an easy fix.

 

Step #1. Buy a real GPS.

Setp #2. Use your phone to make phone calls.

TERRIBLE ADVICE. iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy in all but a few cases. Especially true when cell tower reception is good as it uses that technology as well as the normal GPS. If you aren't getting better accuracy, check the end user.

Yes.

 

When those anti-cell-phone-types get feisty, so do I! It was actually GOOD ADVICE - IN 2004!

 

Hello! Technology has made quantum leaps in the last decade. We're not living in 2004!

 

And by the way, don't buy trendy iPhones. The smart money is on Android!

Edited March 1, 2014 by wmpastor

[+ras_oscar]

For me accuracy is about repeatability. Stake in the backyard method: drive a stake in the ground, use each device to locate it, record the coords. Repeat with each device over several days and plot the variance. (You're comparing each device TO ITSELF) The device with the smallest difference over time is more accurate. I suspect that some phones "GPS" function will be shown better than others.

[+SwineFlew]

Was out caching today in Paisley Uk. Got to start of trail about 0.2 miles from First GZ and started up app on iPhone 4s. Have done over 1k caches with this setup and has always been ok today first thing I noticed was blue spot was nowhere near where we actually were maybe about 0.3 of a mile away knew where cache was roughly so set off thinking gps would settle as normal and narrow down to where we really were but nope it didn't said accur,acy was 1048 metres and stayed like this while we cached using the map and visible way points to get close. The gps still hadn't settled it was indicating red which I take it means poor signal from satellites. I switched to maps app and hit locate me icon and it jumped about all over the place still roughly 0.3 miles from where we really were. Tried a phone restart still same tried killing restarting app no difference. My sister took out her iPhone 5s and tried hers and map screen said having trouble locating you. We were outside in a field with clear skies and no hills or anything high to obstruct signal. It stayed like his for about 45 mins when it just suddenly all worked as normal. We were on our 4th cache on the trail by this time first 3 we managed just with map. Looked up GPS site to see if there had been any outages but it saiid no. Anyone have any idea what caused same thing on 2 separate phones is an outage the only thing it could have been ?

I only had a slight hick-up the other state over across the pond. I'd more suspect the cellular network as the iPhone can and often uses the normal GPS and tower triangulation algorithms for location positioning. Typically why the phones are quite accurate.

 

I wonder if the new GPS satellite they just sent up had anything to do with it?

Maybe it was getting linked into the network?

To early to be that far yet. First they need to get the geostationary synchronization perfected.

 

It's an easy fix.

 

Step #1. Buy a real GPS.

Setp #2. Use your phone to make phone calls.

TERRIBLE ADVICE. iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy in all but a few cases. Especially true when cell tower reception is good as it uses that technology as well as the normal GPS. If you aren't getting better accuracy, check the end user.

Yes.

 

When those anti-cell-phone-types get feisty, so do I! It was actually GOOD ADVICE - IN 2004!

 

Hello! Technology has made quantum leaps in the last decade. We're not living in 2004!

 

And by the way, don't buy trendy iPhones. The smart money is on Android!

If thats true, why smartphone cacher hides are still really off?

 

[+Manville Possum]

RELIABLE testing show the phones do great.

No one is arguing otherwise. I am an advocate of using smart phones for caching. In most conditions they provide more than adequate accuracy for this hobby, and for caching on the fly, when you don't have a PQ handy, they're tough to beat. But your initial statement was not that smart phones are great. Your statement was "iPhones (and probably other smart phones) have better than GPS accuracy". When discussing things like accuracy, (or more correctly, precision), even the smallest difference matters. When you engage in an activity involving reception of signals, using an antenna which is less able to absorb that signal, (what most would call 'weaker'), the end result must be a reduction in precision. The patch style antenna used in the most modern iPhones, as well as other high end smart phones, are less able to absorb signal than the antennas used in high end GPS units.

 

In summation:

 

Are smart phones good enough for this hobby?

Mostly.

 

Are smart phones as precise as high end GPS units?

No.

I agree with Clan Riffster. Wait until you drop your iPhone in the mud and then talk about the IPhone's GPS superiority.

I agree with the both of you. Here is a log on one of my caches from yesterday.

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1J8V7_stinking-creek?guid=0a4fcfe6-8134-4845-bd4c-f216a00af017

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

I agree with Clan Riffster. Wait until you drop your iPhone in the mud and then talk about the IPhone's GPS superiority.

Mine has been in creeks, sink (dropped while shaving), hurricanes, tornado chasing, and more. IMMACULATE condition. Thanks to the OtterBox Armour case. I also throw it across the room as a demonstration on a regular basis. Your argument is MUTE.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

And by the way, don't buy trendy iPhones. The smart money is on Android!

The film industry and most people I do business with are on iOS. They are both good platforms. There isn't a "smart money" decision here. This isn't an investment purchase. People need to choose the tools that work best for them. For me, the iOS/iPhone as been a great decision. Hell, there isn't even apps available on Android I use for business. Also get the Geocaching App updates before Android gets them most of the time.

[+TheWeatherWarrior]

I have used my smart phone (and confirmed with GPS) for hides. Have not had a complaint yet unless it was a known bad area (like Tunnel Vision in Maryland). As I mentioned earlier. A couple are even placed AT survey markers (literally taped to the witness post) and the coordinates can't get more accurate.

Edited March 1, 2014 by TheWeatherWarrior

[+Ambrosia]

I agree with Clan Riffster. Wait until you drop your iPhone in the mud and then talk about the IPhone's GPS superiority.

Mine has been in creeks, sink (dropped while shaving), hurricanes, tornado chasing, and more. IMMACULATE condition. Thanks to the OtterBox Armour case. I also throw it across the room as a demonstration on a regular basis. Your argument is MUTE.

Well, it is possible that their argument is silent, but that would be pretty weird. I'm sure that you think that their argument is actually MOOT.

 

[+Manville Possum]

I agree with Clan Riffster. Wait until you drop your iPhone in the mud and then talk about the IPhone's GPS superiority.

Mine has been in creeks, sink (dropped while shaving), hurricanes, tornado chasing, and more. IMMACULATE condition. Thanks to the OtterBox Armour case. I also throw it across the room as a demonstration on a regular basis. Your argument is MUTE.

Well, it is possible that their argument is silent, but that would be pretty weird. I'm sure that you think that their argument is actually MOOT.

 

This whole thread has became MOOT. I'm not interested in what this person does with their iPhone and had hopes of discussing what the OP may have experienced with their GPS unit. I'm out of here.

[+Sky King 36]

My first few years of caching were with a Garmin 60csx handheld, which I loaded with GSAK. But I did find that the GPS in my 2010-ish EVO 4G was *ROCK SOLID* and gave me slightly better repeatability than my GPS. Now fast-forward, and that EVO was later replaced by a Samsung Galaxy S3. *All* of the Galaxies models have notorious GPS reliability issues that are well documented on the web. Not isolated incidents, but a very broad, widely-affecting problem that plagues the whole product line. I now have a Galaxy Note 3 and my GPS is every bit as unreliable as my S3 was. It may be spot on for a minute or two, but then suddenly your position dot will move 1500 feet or 3 miles away and there is nothing you can do to get it to reset.

 

I considered investing in a nice Bluetooth GPSr, and have posted about those options here in the past. But then an idea hit me a few years ago and here is what I do:

 

I have the Geocaching app still loaded on my retired EVO 4G. It has no cellular coverage, and no data plan on it. BUT... I turn the WiFi hotspot on my Note 3, and run the GC apps on my EVO. Thus, I get the best of both worlds. The EVO has a great GPS in it that is always rock solid, so my positions are always good. It has an extended battery on it from it's old role as a phone, so I can run the GPS on it continuously for about 4 hours, or all day with intermittent use. AND, here's the trifecta: I am not draining the battery on my phone by using its GPS. Its 4G connection , with the hotspot enabled, still uses MUCH less power than its GPS does. And it just gets better: My current phone stays in my pocket or pack, out of the elements and immune to my dropping it. If I break something it will be my very old EVO. The quadruple win.

 

It works great, and, I also then have an emergency phone with me (on a second carrier, even) that I could still make a 911 call on even though it doesn't have a service plan.

 

Blanket statements like "phone GPS accuracy is better than a handheld", or "handheld GPS accuracy is better than a phone" are both such patently untrue, indefensible generalizations that are so easily disproved... It is nothing short of ridiculous how much time geocachers invest in one-upping each other with fallacious post after fallacious post, instead of offering/discussing real solutions and opportunities.

 

Oh, and editing in one last thought: With most android phones, if you want to use the internal GPSr for caching, try turning the android power-saver function OFF while caching and turn it back ON when done. Yes, the internal GPSr is a battery hog, but you need the sampling interval of full power when you are caching, where you don't need it as much for driving.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Sky King 36