How so you do a series as a team or a group

[+Ma & Pa]

If you are walking or biking a series on a trail, how do you proceed??

 

MA & I do caching series' together and may often go with a friend or two ( but not with a large group). We do not separate and look for different caches at the same time, but we may not all walk at the same speed and may not all arrive at the next cache at the same time.

 

I started a topic about LEAPFROGGING, thinking it would get us some advice on acceptable methods to cache as a team or with a group. Everyone seemed to agree on the method that was not appropriate, but there was little about what was considered acceptable.

 

Here was our question

 

I have seen comments about cachers leapfrogging when doing a series in a group.

 

How exactly is this done ?

 

Is there more than one method and if so, is one method more acceptable than another?

 

PAul

 

Here is the definition that everyone seems to agree with

 

Leapfrogging is when a team splits up into two groups. One group finds every second cache and signs on behalf of everyone. The other group finds the ones skipped by the first group and signs on behalf of everyone. Please don't do it. Unless you actually find a specific cache yourself, your name should not be on the log.

 

If you are walking or biking a series on a trail, how do you proceed??

[+redsox_mark]

Same as you have described for me. In general the group stays together (certainly in the case where there are just 2 people), but if the group is larger it can happen that some members of the group reach GZ while others are still some ways behind. And then it follows that sometimes the cache will be found before the "stragglers" make it to GZ.

 

I've always played the "3 Musketeers" method, as soon as one in the group finds the cache, it is found. All sign the log (or one group signature for all). Even the "stragglers" claim a find.

[+AnnaMoritz]

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if I go geocaching with 1-3 other people all of us (or the geocachers only) look for the

(planned) caches on our way. As soon as someone can spot the cache, the search in general is over for all. On very rare occasions at special multi-cache-stages the first might tell the others only 'found it', but not tell where and let the others find the cache themselves. Then sign logbook (I personally always write my signature, no stamp or sticker), put the cache back, proceed.

 

But in general I don't visit series, only on very rare occasions, so no need for anyone to speed anything up (concerning the cache hunt - not if a storm approaches).

 

My maximum was 42 caches per day of a ?-series with a larger group hiking up and down a mountain. Still the same for me: look for every cache, if the competing children run so fast that sometimes they already manage to find the next cache before the adults arrive, fine. Wouldn't ask them to rehide the cache again that everybody may search for themselves if there is nothing special in the way the cache is hidden. All who want to write their nicks themselves - sign logbook and put the stickers for the part of the group who prefer stickers.

 

Yes, if you are the person that is interested in finding the container yourself and are always the last to arrive it might be boring. But then you could tell the others that they should rehide the cache and wait until you have found it also. If you are fast you're always in the front line. This works better for people with similar speed if everybody wants to find at least something. But also on this hike the smallest girl had her chance at caches where everybody else had been looking already for a while and when she arrived she had better luck and found the cache.

[+GeoLog81]

Honestly, I don't understand what is not clear for you. The Groundspeak guidelines are very clear on that topic:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#logging

 

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

It's completely irrelevant what do some strange people 'agree' or 'disagree' on some topic somewhere on internet. There are many people who are writing a lot of nonsense. The Groundspeak made it absolutely clear: you must sign the logbook of the physical cache to log online. It doesn't matter who have seen the cache, it doesn't matter who have taken it, or who have hidden it back afterwards.

 

The only think that matters is, if you have signed the logbook.

[+lamoracke]

Pretty much how we do it, the way Redsox Mark quoted but getting rid of the quote as my link seems to be busted. Sometimes an individual is faster on a particular stretch and may start to look for it before we get there but the group will eventually get there. Do not cache with a single person that has to sign their own signature, often whoever finds it first signs it for all of us (unless its a very cool cache or a landmark one then generally everyone will want their own handwriting in there) but we'll all make it to GZ eventually and see the container at least, etc.

Edited November 20, 2014 by lamoracke

[cezanne]

Honestly, I don't understand what is not clear for you. The Groundspeak guidelines are very clear on that topic:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#logging

 

Physical caches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

It's completely irrelevant what do some strange people 'agree' or 'disagree' on some topic somewhere on internet. There are many people who are writing a lot of nonsense. The Groundspeak made it absolutely clear: you must sign the logbook of the physical cache to log online. It doesn't matter who have seen the cache, it doesn't matter who have taken it, or who have hidden it back afterwards.

 

The only think that matters is, if you have signed the logbook.

 

The formulation "has been signed" is however more neutral and passive and does not exclude cases where one person signs for a group of three who are all present.

Moreover, Groundspeak's rule as it is stated does not say anything about the case when the log has not been signed. Log sheets have no legal character and hardly anyone signs with his name. It does not play a huge role who is writing and even less in times where so many cachers use stamps and stickers.

 

About 2 years ago in my area there was a case where a group of cachers used a group name invented just for that day and then each of the members logged each of the visited caches online. Some cache owners complained and wanted to delete logs and Groundspeak clarified that what the group did is perfectly ok for them and all logs were allowed to stand (regardless of the fact that in this case not every team member could have been present at each cache).

 

Cezanne

Edited November 20, 2014 by cezanne

[+J Grouchy]

This is the biggest reason why I don't have much interest in caching with others - I don't feel any accomplishment from someone else finding it and don't feel right about claiming a find if I did not personally find it. I realize most other folks don't adhere to such a philosophy, but it's my own. I'm also not interested in pushing this viewpoint on anyone I would be with, so I wouldn't feel right about asking them to not claim a find on a cache that I did find.

 

I suppose if I was part of a "Team" membership, I'd have no problem counting it since a team is considered a single unit...but in that case I'd probably set up a different profile for such a group and then only count my personal finds toward my own infividual account, but count all the finds toward the team account.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

It's not complicated. Someone, whether it's just my wife and I, or if we're in a larger group will find the cache before anyone else. Someone has to. If there are stragglers, oh well, they'll get there hopefully before the end of decade. But that almost never happens.

 

If it's just her and I, the log is signed usually by the one who found it. If it's a little soiree of cachers, we pass the log around and we all sign it. Rehide, on to the next. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Works for me, works for them, and I sleep at night just fine.

[+CanadianRockies]

When I first started, much of the thrill of geocaching came from finding cleverly hidden caches. That's a major reason why I often cached alone. And when I cached with my wife, we often employed the "huckle buckle" method where the first person to find it would move away from the spot and only then announced that they had found it. The advantage is that everyone gets the thrill of making the find (usually).

 

With more experience, geocaching became more about the journey and the socializing. I now cache with others more frequently and often use the "Three Musketeers" method where the first person to find it immediately shows it to all. The advantage of this method is that it is quicker than "huckle buckle" (sometimes much, much quicker).

 

It doesn't really matter to me which finding method the group uses, so I just go with whatever the group prefers. If you have a strong preference, then you might want to decide that issue before you form your group.

 

Some groups will sign the logs with a single group name and explain on the online logs whom that group name applies to: "Signed log as ABCDE for Abbie, Bart, Chris, Debbie, and Eva." This saves time, effort, and log space.

 

I've always cached in relatively small groups where a single person usually signed everyone's name on the log.

[+dprovan]

When I cache with a group, we just ignore time of arrival. Rarely the cache has been rehidden by the time the last person arrives, so someone waits to point out where it's hidden. Someone just signs for the straggler. In fact, one person normally signs for everyone, whether we're signing individual names or with a group name.

[+gpicard]

When I cache with a group, we just ignore time of arrival. Rarely the cache has been rehidden by the time the last person arrives, so someone waits to point out where it's hidden. Someone just signs for the straggler. In fact, one person normally signs for everyone, whether we're signing individual names or with a group name.

 

Same here.

 

If the log does get passed around, I think it's best for the finder to rehide the cache rather than the last person signing the log.

[+cerberus1]

When caching with my other 2/3rds, whoever found it signed the log. We're a team.

She does have an account of her own (started for the ton of coins she accumulated) and after she learned to use rope and feel safe on water hides, we'll sometimes add her "other" sig on higher terrain caches.

 

I'd prefer to play in a group as DadOf6Furrballs explained (pass the log, rehide, on to the next) and for a couple we attended, we cached the same.

 

Attended a few in another State, a large "caching in snow" group.

I was the pain-in-the-can who wanted to sign the log, "slowing everyone down", when others wanted to move on to the next.

Was outvoted , "this is how we're doing it..." with one sig for all.

The last in the group, most cases, never even got a chance to see where/what the container was.

We no longer attend those.

 

Lately we've gotten away from the group thing.

We don't pq or gsak, only going after caches we'll do.

Caching simply for numbers isn't fun for us.

[+TopShelfRob]

But how are cache owners supposed to know who is a member of a "team" that signs or stickers a log, if they don't say "I signed as part of Team America" in the online log?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If you are walking or biking a series on a trail, how do you proceed??

 

MA & I do caching series' together and may often go with a friend or two ( but not with a large group). We do not separate and look for different caches at the same time, but we may not all walk at the same speed and may not all arrive at the next cache at the same time.

 

It seems to me that if everyone slows down to the pace of the slowest walker then you'll have more time to socialize in between caches and everyone would arrive at GZ for each cache about the same time, giving everyone in the group equal opportunity to find the cache first. Of course, that means you might not find as many caches if one or more cachers are racing ahead so that every cache is found as quickly as possible. Personally, when caching as a small group (which I rarely do), I'd prefer the opportunity to socialize with other cachers over a higher find count for the day.

 

 

 

[cezanne]

It seems to me that if everyone slows down to the pace of the slowest walker then you'll have more time to socialize in between caches and everyone would arrive at GZ for each cache about the same time, giving everyone in the group equal opportunity to find the cache first. Of course, that means you might not find as many caches if one or more cachers are racing ahead so that every cache is found as quickly as possible. Personally, when caching as a small group (which I rarely do), I'd prefer the opportunity to socialize with other cachers over a higher find count for the day.

 

Neither myself nor anyone with whom I have been out caching have any interest into finding as many caches as possible. Different walking rhythms and paces are something that occurs independently from geocaching. Sometimes it is best that the faster move along and wait later for the slower ones. As my focus is not on the search anyway, I do not mind arriving if someone else has already found the cache. I do not have any ambition to find the cache first. There are sufficiently many cases where the persons who arrives last finds the cache first. I do not geocaching as a competition which needs rules like that everyone gets the same chance to find the cache as first. There is nothing to be won.

[+DanOCan]

But how are cache owners supposed to know who is a member of a "team" that signs or stickers a log, if they don't say "I signed as part of Team America" in the online log?

As a cache owner, I go by blind faith.

 

Unless someone's online creates a false impression that a cache is in place when it actually isn't, I'm not likely to worry too much.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

But how are cache owners supposed to know who is a member of a "team" that signs or stickers a log, if they don't say "I signed as part of Team America" in the online log?

As a cache owner, I go by blind faith.

 

Unless someone's online creates a false impression that a cache is in place when it actually isn't, I'm not likely to worry too much.

That's pretty much how we do it. Neither one of us spend hours doing a line-by-line audits of the paper logs v the online logs. I pretty much trust cachers to be honest.

[+NeverSummer]

Personally, I've never "leapfrogged" a cache trail. It comes down to how I like to cache, and that is to get my grubby hands on each cache I claim a find on. My biggest day was all by myself, and that is still something I take pride in.

[+jellis]

Pretty much how we do it, the way Redsox Mark quoted but getting rid of the quote as my link seems to be busted. Sometimes an individual is faster on a particular stretch and may start to look for it before we get there but the group will eventually get there. Do not cache with a single person that has to sign their own signature, often whoever finds it first signs it for all of us (unless its a very cool cache or a landmark one then generally everyone will want their own handwriting in there) but we'll all make it to GZ eventually and see the container at least, etc.

+1

[+niraD]

If you are walking or biking a series on a trail, how do you proceed??

If not everyone knows everyone else, then we start with introductions. Depending on the size of the group and the nature of the caches we plan to seek, we may choose an informal team name to sign the logs with. Then we set off for the first cache.

 

I prefer playing huckle buckle beanstalk style, so generally everyone gets a chance to search for every cache. The last person to spot the cache usually retrieves it, and whoever retrieves it also replaces it (to minimize cache migration). One person may sign the team name for everyone, or one or two people may sign everyone's names, or (rarely) we may pass the log around so everyone signs their own names. If there's someone in the group who insists on signing his/her own name, then they can do that. Then the cache is repacked and goes back into its hiding spot.

 

If the group is big enough (or if members travel at significantly different speeds), then we may split up. In that case, each group does its own thing, independent of the other. The faster group may finish sooner and/or find more caches, but there's no leapfrogging.

[+Roman!]

I used to be anal about my finds, I refused to cache with anyone else, signed all my own logs. In fact I have pictures of every of my first 3,000 or so caches I found with my signature in the logbook. I then met friends and realized the social side of geocaching which I quite enjoy, although I'm not a fan of events, so if we go out group caching I'm OK with one name being inked for the group and as long as I see the container and the hiding spot I'm good with logging a find, not being as anal as I used to be has made geocaching a lot more enjoyable.

[+Titus Adduxas]

As a cache owner I doubt If I'll ever delete a log. I'm a purist and play the way I like to - others do it their way. I'm not going to lose any sleep over other peoples methods.

[+redsox_mark]

 

It seems to me that if everyone slows down to the pace of the slowest walker then you'll have more time to socialize in between caches and everyone would arrive at GZ for each cache about the same time, giving everyone in the group equal opportunity to find the cache first. Of course, that means you might not find as many caches if one or more cachers are racing ahead so that every cache is found as quickly as possible. Personally, when caching as a small group (which I rarely do), I'd prefer the opportunity to socialize with other cachers over a higher find count for the day.

 

When I am with a group, the group generally DOES stay together. Certainly at each cache we would wait for all to arrive at GZ before moving on... so it has no impact on find count. It is just natural that from time to time there may be some gaps between sub-groups. Maybe two stopped to pick some berries and the others didn't notice. Maybe two were having an intense (and perhaps sensitive) discussion so others gave them space. This has always happened with any group I've gone for a walk with (geocaching or not).

[+TopShelfRob]

So if the general consensus is "it doesn't really matter who in the group finds it" because it is all about the socializing and the journey and all that stuff, then why claim a find if someone else in the group found it? It's not about the find count, it's all about the socializing, but you do still want to get the +1, though, #amiright?

 

I only cached once in a group and it was with two others who were caching for the first time. I was the only experienced cacher and at the time I had only found like 40 caches - not an expert by any means -- and I had yet to really spend a lot of time reading the forums so didn't know really know any other way or accepted practices, etc.. The three of us looked for like 15-20 caches, we had a lot of DNFs, but we each only found the ones that we actually found ourseleves, it became a friendly competition, I think I won with 4 and the others had 1 and 2 finds. In fact when I was at three finds and we had a about three DNFs in a row and we were thinking of stopping we decided that the first one to four would win.

 

My point is it never would have occurred to us to all three of us each count all seven finds - that would have felt like cheating. But I guess because we're competitive males, we thought of geocaching like a sport, we were competing to win. If you just want to get a bunch of people together for a hike and socialize, you don't really need geocaching to do it.

 

That's just how we did it, not trying to convert anybody either. I don't need a +1 so bad that I want to count containers that I didn't actually find myself, but then here I am with only 141, and I guess if I wanted to have 3,000 finds someday, maybe I'd play the game differently.

Edited November 22, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+AnnaMoritz]

To me it seems ridiculous to demand not log a 'found it' from one of two cachers when for example two persons caching together arrive at the final after 4 days of hiking along multi-stages in the mountains and one of them sees the final container first and tells the other 'here it is'.

 

Especially if there is a very explicit spoiler picture available after you managed to calculate the final coordinates and get there.

 

If you feel like competition where only one can be the winner and the winner takes it all it seems to me best go alone.

 

Or at least play it that everyone has a chance to find the container e.g. not tell the others where it is until everybody found it and brag in your online log you were the fastest to find. Geocaches are not 'burned' for others if someone manages to spot them first.

[+niraD]

So if the general consensus is "it doesn't really matter who in the group finds it" because it is all about the socializing and the journey and all that stuff, then why claim a find if someone else in the group found it?

I prefer the huckle buckle beanstalk method myself, but my take on the three musketeers method is different. It isn't only "about the socializing and the journey and all that stuff". And it certainly isn't about claiming a smiley for a cache someone else found. It's about finding a geocache as a team.

 

When I've played team sports, we all won or lost together. So it is when geocachers use the three musketeers method.

[+Mudfrog]

If you are walking or biking a series on a trail, how do you proceed??

 

MA & I do caching series' together and may often go with a friend or two ( but not with a large group). We do not separate and look for different caches at the same time, but we may not all walk at the same speed and may not all arrive at the next cache at the same time.

 

It seems to me that if everyone slows down to the pace of the slowest walker then you'll have more time to socialize in between caches and everyone would arrive at GZ for each cache about the same time, giving everyone in the group equal opportunity to find the cache first. Of course, that means you might not find as many caches if one or more cachers are racing ahead so that every cache is found as quickly as possible. Personally, when caching as a small group (which I rarely do), I'd prefer the opportunity to socialize with other cachers over a higher find count for the day.

 

For sure, for sure! Just like events, this is what makes group outings fun for me. Finding one good cache with good friends is all that's needed to make the day perfect!

[+TopShelfRob]

Also I think it's different because we were three young guys, used to competing with each other in sports, basketball etc., to compete for the finds just felt like normal... if I was with a group of people of varying ages, both sexes, that I only knew through Geocaching then I could see we wouldn't expect to compete and only one person claim the find.. but that's more about socializing than about Geocaching as a sport, I'd call that "casual Geocaching"... It's like playing golf, I can play golf to try to shoot a good score, or I can do it just to go out and get some exercise and have a good time with friends and drink a few beers and not really care what my score is.

 

But I mean generally if I'm hanging out with friends, a lot of them know that I Geocache, but it isn't really their thing, we don't really need to Geocache to have a good time (and a lot of them did it once and didn't really pick up the hobby.) But yeah, if it's a bunch of Geocachers, that's maybe I only know or met through Geocaching, then it's going to be different.

 

We keep all these stats like find counts, but how can you say that you found 382 caches if really you by yourself found 260 of them and you as part of a group found 122. I'd rather, if I want to be serious about your stats, if you form an ad hoc group for a day to set up a group account that says "Team such and such" and plus then the logs could be audited by a C.O. that wants to... Then your personal account would have actual finds that you actual found yourself and group account would have those found.. I just personally don't want credit for finds that I didn't actually find on my own. If I wasn't really serious about my stats being accurate, then I wouldn't need to really log them online at all.

 

When I've played team sports, we all won or lost together. So it is when geocachers use the three musketeers method.

 

Yeah, but if you're playing soccer and one player scores a goal, it's only 1-0... all eleven players on the team don't each get a goal, and the score isn't 11-0. Essentially that's what's happening if one person finds a cache for the group, and all 11 people in the group log it, it's getting 11 finds for it being found one actual time.

[+niraD]

When I've played team sports, we all won or lost together. So it is when geocachers use the three musketeers method.

Yeah, but if you're playing soccer and one player scores a goal, it's only 1-0... all eleven players on the team don't each get a goal, and the score isn't 11-0. Essentially that's what's happening if one person finds a cache for the group, and all 11 people in the group log it, it's getting 11 finds for it being found one actual time.

Well, I wouldn't be the first person to say that finds aren't points. Sure, only the player who scored the goal gets a point. But we all get a win.

 

But I don't really think of finds as wins either. The analogy goes only so far.

 

And as I said, I prefer to use the huckle buckle beanstalk method. So if I visit a cache with a group of a dozen people, then each of us could indeed find the cache, and the cache could have been found a dozen (plus one) actual times.

[+Roman!]

But how are cache owners supposed to know who is a member of a "team" that signs or stickers a log, if they don't say "I signed as part of Team America" in the online log?

As a cache owner, I go by blind faith.

 

Unless someone's online creates a false impression that a cache is in place when it actually isn't, I'm not likely to worry too much.

 

Or you can get the CO to sign the log for you even when you're thosands of miles away.

 

Link

 

Seems all you have to do is solve the puzzle then email the CO and log a find.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Roman!