Wet Logs, Bisons & Nanos

[+JimmyM]

I wish a clever engineer would solve the gasket problem with nanos and bisons. Cachers crank down them down and destroy the gasket.

Here in the great NW Wet the logs are always wet in winter. It is a challenge.

[+cerberus1]

Not a getting started issue, but I agree.

We're also seeing larger bison-like containers with ridiculously thin o-rings that are stretched and apart after just a few cachers.

Maybe there's simply not enough space left after threading, and an o-ring is all there's room for?

The use of a gasket, instead of an o-ring on matchstick containers seem to give a better seal.

- Maybe a combination of the two, a gasket center with o-ring "edges" (like some auto oil drain plug gaskets) would work, but I guess there still needs to be room for it in the design.

[+Tassie_Boy]

Put some knead-it in the thread just before the end so that it stops turning before the lid is screwed right up.

[Rock Chalk]

Moving to the appropriate forum.

[+Mudfrog]

Not a getting started issue, but I agree.

We're also seeing larger bison-like containers with ridiculously thin o-rings that are stretched and apart after just a few cachers.

Maybe there's simply not enough space left after threading, and an o-ring is all there's room for?

The use of a gasket, instead of an o-ring on matchstick containers seem to give a better seal.

- Maybe a combination of the two, a gasket center with o-ring "edges" (like some auto oil drain plug gaskets) would work, but I guess there still needs to be room for it in the design.

 

Let's face it,,, bison and nano like containers aren't really good for geocaching. It's not that they're a bad container, it's that there are too many people finding them who don't know that a light "snugging" of the lid is all that's needed. They'd work fine if people knew to stop the tightening when the lid met the Oring.

[+The A-Team]

It's not that they're a bad container, it's that there are too many people finding them who don't know that a light "snugging" of the lid is all that's needed. They'd work fine if people knew to stop the tightening when the lid met the Oring.

It could be argued that they are bad containers since they aren't foolproof and can be so easily defeated. If the waterproofness of the container comes down to a quarter-turn of the lid, then it isn't a good choice of container.

[+Viajero Perdido]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

[+colleda]

It's not that they're a bad container, it's that there are too many people finding them who don't know that a light "snugging" of the lid is all that's needed. They'd work fine if people knew to stop the tightening when the lid met the Oring.

It could be argued that they are bad containers since they aren't foolproof and can be so easily defeated. If the waterproofness of the container comes down to a quarter-turn of the lid, then it isn't a good choice of container.

There's really no such thing as foolproof. The world keeps producing better fools.

[knowschad]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

[+Mudfrog]

It's not that they're a bad container, it's that there are too many people finding them who don't know that a light "snugging" of the lid is all that's needed. They'd work fine if people knew to stop the tightening when the lid met the Oring.

It could be argued that they are bad containers since they aren't foolproof and can be so easily defeated. If the waterproofness of the container comes down to a quarter-turn of the lid, then it isn't a good choice of container.

There's really no such thing as foolproof. The world keeps producing better fools.

 

This is what i meant in my statement above. "Let's face it,,, bison and nano like containers aren't really good for geocaching". These things require a particular tightening of the lid. They'd be alright if, and only if, everyone who found them knew this.

 

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Yes, better containers but, i've found a few of these over the years that were compromised as well. We have to remember that humans are in the equation, therefore, nothing is safe.

[+narcissa]

It's just one of the pitfalls of the game that the containers least suited to heavy handling are the ones most frequently used in high traffic caches.

[+L0ne.R]

Problem with bison tubes, they are the most frequently used micro container, get the most handling, and many cache owners figure a micro means less maintenance. When in actual fact bisons and buttons need more maintenance, are most likely to have a wet moldy tattered full logsheet 2 months after placing it.

 

And as a finder, bison and nano button caches are my least favourite container to deal with. Trying to get the logsheet out, unrolling the tiny scroll to find an empty spot, rolling the long tiny tattered scroll back up tight enough to get it back in the container, not dropping the tiny button into the tall grass. Frustrating. 10x more frustrating in the winter. Tiny leakproof nalgene jars and preforms are a much better choice for easier handling.

[+narcissa]

Problem with bison tubes, they are the most frequently used micro container, get the most handling, and many cache owners figure a micro means less maintenance. When in actual fact bisons and buttons need more maintenance, are most likely to have a wet moldy tattered full logsheet 2 months after placing it.

 

And as a finder, bison and nano button caches are my least favourite container to deal with. Trying to get the logsheet out, unrolling the tiny scroll to find an empty spot, rolling the long tiny tattered scroll back up tight enough to get it back in the container, not dropping the tiny button into the tall grass. Frustrating. 10x more frustrating in the winter. Tiny leakproof nalgene jars and preforms are a much better choice for easier handling.

 

Agree on all counts.

[+fizzymagic]

When in actual fact bisons and buttons need more maintenance, are most likely to have a wet moldy tattered full logsheet 2 months after placing it.

 

Not if you use waterproof paper for the logs, as I do.

 

And no, I don't mean "Rite in the Rain." Use National Geographic waterproof inkjet paper, which is a plastic, not a real paper.

 

I also reduce maintenance requirements by making my caches relatively difficult, which keeps the numbers cachers away.

 

As a result, my bisons generally go a couple of years between maintenance runs.

[+GrateBear]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

Not so brief--I've found many preforms where the cap is cracked or broken, and the log is wet.

[+L0ne.R]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

Not so brief--I've found many preforms where the cap is cracked or broken, and the log is wet.

 

Sounds like a maintenance issue. How old was the cache listing? How long (or how many visits) was it listed before the cap was broken? Did the owner do maintenance? Were there NM logs and were they ignored by the owner?

I've seen good containers (ammo cans, authentic Lock & Locks, pelican boxes) that were broken, they lasted a while (usually years) but eventually succumbed to wear and tear - the owners however did not check on them or respond to logs that mentioned the problem. It's not that preforms aren't good geocaching containers but that some cache owners don't do maintenance when wear and tear occur.

Edited January 21, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+The A-Team]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

Not so brief--I've found many preforms where the cap is cracked or broken, and the log is wet.

Sounds like a maintenance issue. How old was the cache listing? How long (or how many visits) was it listed before the cap was broken? Did the owner do maintenance? Were there NM logs and were they ignored by the owner?

I've seen good containers (ammo cans, authentic Lock & Locks, pelican boxes) that were broken, they lasted a while (usually years) but eventually succumbed to wear and tear - the owners however did not check on them or respond to logs that mentioned the problem. It's not that preforms aren't good geocaching containers but that some cache owners don't do maintenance when wear and tear occur.

Another question I'd ask is: was the container hidden in such a way that the cap would be exposed to sunlight? UV light breaks down plastic, so it won't matter how good your container is if you've left it unprotected. Eventually, the plastic will become brittle and crack. That's why you should always use paint, camo-tape, or something else to cover a plastic container that will be exposed to the sun.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

Not so brief--I've found many preforms where the cap is cracked or broken, and the log is wet.

Sounds like a maintenance issue. How old was the cache listing? How long (or how many visits) was it listed before the cap was broken? Did the owner do maintenance? Were there NM logs and were they ignored by the owner?

I've seen good containers (ammo cans, authentic Lock & Locks, pelican boxes) that were broken, they lasted a while (usually years) but eventually succumbed to wear and tear - the owners however did not check on them or respond to logs that mentioned the problem. It's not that preforms aren't good geocaching containers but that some cache owners don't do maintenance when wear and tear occur.

Another question I'd ask is: was the container hidden in such a way that the cap would be exposed to sunlight? UV light breaks down plastic, so it won't matter how good your container is if you've left it unprotected. Eventually, the plastic will become brittle and crack. That's why you should always use paint, camo-tape, or something else to cover a plastic container that will be exposed to the sun.

 

+1......probably 90% of my micro hides are painted preforms.I will use an occasional match safe or bison but when I do I replace the cheap factory 0-ring with a thicker buena-n o-ring. I also carry a bag of various size o-rings for replacing damaged ones I find....as said, almost all are damaged as brand new they are not much good.

[+GrateBear]

The problem's already been solved: different containers. Preforms and tiny Nalgene bottles, for example, don't need O-rings.

 

Whew! That was a mercifully brief discussion for once!

Not so brief--I've found many preforms where the cap is cracked or broken, and the log is wet.

Sounds like a maintenance issue. How old was the cache listing? How long (or how many visits) was it listed before the cap was broken? Did the owner do maintenance? Were there NM logs and were they ignored by the owner?

I've seen good containers (ammo cans, authentic Lock & Locks, pelican boxes) that were broken, they lasted a while (usually years) but eventually succumbed to wear and tear - the owners however did not check on them or respond to logs that mentioned the problem. It's not that preforms aren't good geocaching containers but that some cache owners don't do maintenance when wear and tear occur.

Another question I'd ask is: was the container hidden in such a way that the cap would be exposed to sunlight? UV light breaks down plastic, so it won't matter how good your container is if you've left it unprotected. Eventually, the plastic will become brittle and crack. That's why you should always use paint, camo-tape, or something else to cover a plastic container that will be exposed to the sun.

Well, the problem is that they are on power trails. Ones with 100+ caches. And there are many of them in Idaho. There's a team that puts them out, and as they degrade, they either stay as is or finders replace them with all sorts of crappy containers. While many appreciate the work this team does to put them out, there is no maintenance, no archiving. Their account shows 4494 traditional cache hides. I see no need to comment in either a positive or negative way, just explaining the situation.

[+colleda]

I have a series of 18 caches called the "Bison Trail" which is made up of mostly bison tubes. Very little maintenance is required for these as far as wet logs and O rings go. They have needed very little attention, muggled caches, have been a bigger nuisance.

I decided to check on one today which has been exposed to the elements for 2 years and the log is dry and in excellent condition although the cache note was a little ragged at one end.

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4R3QY_bison-trail-11

I give bison tube O rings a very very light smear of lanolin grease which does a great job of preserving the rubber, or whatever it is they're made from.

[+hzoi]

Hide ammo cans instead. I've found ones that were sitting in mid, rusted on the outside, and bone dry on the inside. Outside of cans that have been damaged by fires, or with foreign objects keeping the can from sealing, I've found very few that have leaked.

[+cleandrysurface]

There's also something to be said for cache placement. Sunlight breaks down O-rings quickly, as previously mentioned. When exposed directly to the elements most containers will leak. Placing the cache in a sheltered spot makes a huge difference. My first cache was a mini altoids tin, which is going on 6 years and has never had a problem.