Crossing a River - too dangerous?

[+Sapper 1-6]

I have a pretty cool multicache planned out for my local area. However, it involves crossing a pretty good sized river multiple times (150 feet wide). There's definitely a long way around that avoids actually crossing the river, but it's far enough to encourage cachers to cross the river instead.

 

Couple questions about the cache before I place or publish it.

1) Is it ok to have a river crossing be a part of the cache?

2) I assume the answer to the first question is yes, and if so, should I mention the possibility of crossing the river in the description? I would rather have it be a surprise when you find the first stage.

3) should the terrain be a 4 or 5? Or should it be a 3 bc you COULD take a roundabout way across a bridge.

 

Overall I just don't want the cache to be unsafe but at the same time I know it's no more extreme than numerous caches out there. I want to place a cache that I would want to find, and this one definitely qualifies.

 

Thanks for your feedback!

[+wmpastor]

The terrain rating probably depends on whether the bridge is realistically close. If it *can* be done without swimming or boating, it probably gets a lower rating than if it required that. Most people will take the easy way, unless they're looking for a reason to dust off the kayak.

Edited April 10, 2015 by wmpastor

[+niraD]

The terrain rating probably depends on whether the bridge is realistically close. If it *can* be done without swimming or boating, it probably gets a lower rating than if it required that. Most people will take the easy way, unless they're looking for a reason to dust off the kayak.

Exactly. The T5 rating means that special equipment/expertise is required. If it's a T3 hike without the boat or ATV or whatever, then the fact that it is easier with the equipment doesn't suddenly increase the terrain rating to T5.

[+WarNinjas]

Sounds like a fun cache for sure!

[+jellis]

Depending also how swift the water is.

[+Ben0w]

1. yes

2. yes

3. I'd suggest giving it a slight higher T rating than you would for using the bridge. Don't know the exact conditions, but a T4 sounds reasonable, maybe even a 4.5. Explain the terrain rating in the listing - see your question #2.

 

Please be sure to not having the river crossing itself as the only "highlight", could get boring. Make it a whole experience: good listing (description of the caches specialities, pointing out the landmarks), nice river, well choosed way to the cache (including the crossings), a superb location (i.e. viewpoint or else), a good cover for your box (muggle safe but cacher findable) and a fitting box (weather proof, cacher proof, large enough for trackables) including a nice logbook. Cache placing is an art. I'd love this cache!

[+T.D.M.22]

It's the cachers choice if a cache is too dangerous for them. It is also their choice how to get to the cache. Could walk, drive, boat, helicopter..... You're not forcing them to wade the river, some would t worry about it being dangerous(it's not like the cache is in the river)

[+Seaglass Pirates]

Agree with all of the above. There are caches in areas contaminated with nuclear waste. So it's pretty open. I would say on cache page in red writing as most do:

 

You undertake this cache entirely at your own risk and no responsibility will be taken by the CO or Groundspeak for anything that may happen. Only undertake this cache if you feel you are cals ale of doing so.

 

Do not undertake this cache alone.

 

This is covered in terms of use but I woukd imagine some legal ferret woukd point out that you do not have to tick a box to confirm you have read the T's and C's before you undertake a cache absolving anyone of anything. By putting it on the page you are showing due diligence.

 

Also there are several challenge caches you ca reach from your car. Thereby a terrain 1. But because to complete the challenge you may have had to do a terrain 5 cache for whatever reason they have made the challenge cache a 5. Another example is from this forum when someone asked a question. Their cache was refused because of the proximity rule. A cache existed at the top of a 200 foot sheer cliff. The co wanted to place one below it. It was not permitted. He argued that if someone wishes to do both it would involve a 10'mile home to get access from one to the other. The terrain would be a possible 2.5/3. However the reviewer argued that while this may be true an adventurous cacher may take a long rope and abseil down to it. Thus making it a 5. So lots of variables. I would say this. Make it a 5 because sure as carrots are orange if you make it a 4 you will get moaning that it is easily a 5 because many will not zoom out to see there is a hell of a hike to a bridge and will assume you can only reach it by water. Add various attributes if you wish to highlight this. Or Taylor it so that they must cross the river somehow by placing the cache in a place only accessed via the river.

 

Here is a couple of examples of what I mean and it sounds like an awsum cache good luck:

 

http://coord.info/GC5HFZH - 5/5 but it's a gentle stroll to cache

 

http://coord.info/GC5KD6Y - only attempt if you are capable example in red on cache page.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I'd probably say something like, " multi-cache with some navigational options, a shorter route with a higher terrain rating, or longer route with lower rating". So crossing the river isn't specified, but people do understand that they'll have some choices and face some hazards via the quick route. As to actually rating it, kind of depends on your expectations. Local to me, the people who'll do a multi are scarce, and they will likely use the short route. I'd rate for that route - likely 4 or 4.5, hard to know without specific knowledge of the river.

 

(I will say, these days a lot of people cache with phones, which they're understandably not willing to get wet, and they're not carrying cases for them. Changes the caching landscape some.)

 

As others have said, if I'm wading some, swimming some across a river, that's not T 5, unless it's so fierce that the sane human would be roped to do it.

[Luckless]

If it were me I don't think I'd chance people trying to cross river. It always amazes me what they try to do. By turning it into a multi cache you could have another stage. Make the bridge a stage for finding the cache either by hiding a cache with coordinates near bridge or getting the info from signs by bridge then be sure to tell people to use bridge so there'd be no question how to get to final cache and avoid crossing river (I mean they're right there at the bridge so why not use it?).

I'm thinking of hiding a cache in a place that you can usually walk to, but the high water from spring runoff makes it impossible to get to now- flooding going on all over. I may do it later in the year just for the summer when it should not be a problem.

[+Mn-treker]

I have a series on a river, both sides of the river. I reated mine a 5 terrain due to you need a boat/canoe or walk the ice.

To get to them, I also had to hang some high due to possible flooding. Sure you could cross the river by boat/canoe.

You could also start up river and travel down. Making for a nice river trip. Only a few are accessible by land (public land).

All others require water access. So a 5 with special tool attribute may be best.

[+SageTracey]

I always read the cache description (yep, that's me, I'm the one), so if I was doing your cache and reached a river crossing that was a surprise until I reached there, I would not only quit your cache but I would also be pretty unhappy. How am I supposed to bring the gear I need if multiple crossings of such a major river, as described by you, are a surprise?

[+geodarts]

I also would not want to be surprised by multiple crossings of a good size river. Although it is possible that logs might eventually describe the adventure in getting to the cache location, I would still feel like the CO was playing games with me for no particular reason. Ignore. With a few choice words thrown in.

 

Ultimately as a CO, I would not want any kind of personal responsibility if people were to undertake something without being prepared for it. If the river crossing could potentially be dangerous or require special equipment, I would want people to know that. The "at your own risk" disclaimer only goes so far in legal matters, but regardless, I would want to ensure that people can make an informed decision about what might be required before getting caught up in the spirit of the chase.

Edited April 13, 2015 by geodarts

[+Mn-treker]

This is an example of the attributes from one of my river hides. The snowmobile can be driven down the middle of the river in winter.

Surprises are no fun. Tooling up for the hunt is better, one requires a 24 foot pole. Although EskoClimber came with climbing gear and went up. That tree is like a utility pole, no branches.

not available for winter not recommended at night not 24-7 may require swimming may require wading thorns! scenic view snowmobiles allowed hunting area boat required ticks! poison plants!

It is always better to be prepared and more fun.

[+WarNinjas]

Oh I didn't notice the surprise part. We wouldn't do that. We would definitely make that clear on the cache page. That way the cachers wouldn't have on there nice shoes or whatever when they got there. This is a line my daughter put on one of our more dangerous caches. I kind of thought it was funny!

 

We, Pink and Blue Ninja, are not to be held liable for any mishaps that may come from this cache on days that end in "Y" as those seem to be dangerous days for this particular area and we highly do not reccomend going on those days.

[+worstcaster]

I have a cache on an island that is reachable by kayak or wading. There is nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you mention it (and the longer drier option) in your description. Also there are attributes for wading and boating. Here is a link to my cache.

 

You're going to get wet:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC444XN_youre-gonna-get-wet?guid=0f772cfb-71ea-4525-b88b-04e7f987f24b

[+Mn-treker]

Oh I didn't notice the surprise part. We wouldn't do that. We would definitely make that clear on the cache page. That way the cachers wouldn't have on there nice shoes or whatever when they got there. This is a line my daughter put on one of our more dangerous caches. I kind of thought it was funny!

 

We, Pink and Blue Ninja, are not to be held liable for any mishaps that may come from this cache on days that end in "Y" as those seem to be dangerous days for this particular area and we highly do not reccomend going on those days.

So are they the Teenage Mutant Ninja Girls? ; )