Church Caches

[+3Ms&Me]

The church I attend has a lot of green space and some wonderful trees. In my travels, I have found various caches outside churches, some placed with permission or by the youth group of the church, others placed by local caters. I sought permission by the powers that be to hide a cache on church property. They are in favor of it, but are worried about liability issues of people walking on church grounds. Can anybody help me out? Is the church liable if someone would get hurt while hunting for the container? The plan is a simple birdhouse cache hanging from a tree. a 1.5/1.5 rating. Thanks for any and all help!

[+narcissa]

I can't imagine that they would be any more liable than they are for having grounds in the first place...

[+redsox_mark]

I'm not a lawyer, an insurance salesperson, or involved in running a church. But I would expect a church to already have liability insurance. I wouldn't think it would make a difference if someone hurt themselves at a wedding, a church service, or just walking through the churchyard... or looking for a geocache.

[Keystone]

I am also in the process of securing permission from my church to hide a cache on their large campus. And, we're both in Pennsylvania. Point to Pennsylvania's recreational use statute for assurance. Most or all US states have similar laws. And, wouldn't the church already have liability insurance, like for covering playground accidents during vacation Bible school?

 

As a member of my church's safety team, we see accidents quite regularly. A few Sundays ago it was an older gentleman who tripped and fell on the sidewalk, hitting his head. The odds of one of the many weekly church attendees having an accident in the parking lot are higher than the odds of a geocacher having an accident while retrieving a match stick container from a tree at the edge of the property.

[+cerberus1]

Keystone's link is a good start.

 

My other 2/3rds first cache (still there) is on her church's property.

She told them liability would be no different than if someone visited a grave (close by), or for the boy and girl scouts, that both have meetings in the back yard when weather's nice.

As she was explaining, I was out back, watching a lady stone rubbing an ancient headstone in the cemetery, and they noticed.

- Guess it never really dawned on 'em that folks just walk in for a number of reasons (besides that indoors part).

 

 

Edited, keeping outta a thread in OT.

Edited April 15, 2015 by cerberus1

[+AustinMN]

The church I attend has a lot of green space and some wonderful trees. In my travels, I have found various caches outside churches, some placed with permission or by the youth group of the church, others placed by local caters. I sought permission by the powers that be to hide a cache on church property. They are in favor of it, but are worried about liability issues of people walking on church grounds. Can anybody help me out? Is the church liable if someone would get hurt while hunting for the container? The plan is a simple birdhouse cache hanging from a tree. a 1.5/1.5 rating. Thanks for any and all help!

 

I am not a lawyer and I can only speak from a U.S. perspective. But my understanding is that safety is the sole responsibility of the cacher. Groundspeak, cache hiders, land owners and managers, and governments are not liable for accidents that happen to cachers while out geocaching.

 

I believe we all agreed to this when we signed up.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/disclaimer.aspx

 

"Geocaching.com Disclaimer

 

Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache.

 

Geocaching.com is owned and operated by Groundspeak Inc. Information in the Geocaching.com database is updated regularly. Neither Groundspeak Inc., nor any agent, officer, employee of Groundspeak Inc. or any geocaching community volunteer warrants the accuracy, reliability, or timeliness of any information and shall not be liable for any losses caused by such reliance on the accuracy, reliability, or timeliness of such information. While every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this information, portions may be incorrect or not current.

Any person or entity that relies on information obtained from Geocaching.com does so at his or her own risk.

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution..."

 

Austin

Edited April 15, 2015 by AustinMN

[+Trotter17]

I think everything that has been said about the church already having liability insurance for the folks who come there every week is pretty much right on target. Most churches have plenty of guests and visitors on their property each week. My church has service three times a week as well as having folks visit for special events, VBS, weddings, funerals, and events when members use our fellowship hall for birthday parties and such. if your church doesn't have liability insurance covering all of those normal functions they probably need to address those before worrying about a few geocachers showing up!

 

Me and a friend just posted a cache at our church (I'm on staff there, too). We have let the church know and even showed out groundskeeper and house and grounds committee see where the cache is. We're also happy to show anyone who wants to see it. The only stipulations I added to the cache page is asking people not to seek the cache at night or during Sunday morning worship. That's more for the comfort of church members and because I think the kids (and me) would be distracted if we saw folks out seeking caches! The room I teach Sunday school has a window that looks directly at the first physical stage of our Letterbox! I know I'd be tempted to stop class and run out to talk to a fellow cacher!

[+Ambrosia]

Like other people have said, from my understanding (at least of how my church insurance works), churches have a generic umbrella insurance that covers anyone on their property.

 

I have a cache on the grounds of my church, and it's 10 years old this month. Never had a problem with it being there.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I am also in the process of securing permission from my church to hide a cache on their large campus. And, we're both in Pennsylvania. Point to Pennsylvania's recreational use statute for assurance. Most or all US states have similar laws. And, wouldn't the church already have liability insurance, like for covering playground accidents during vacation Bible school?

 

As a member of my church's safety team, we see accidents quite regularly. A few Sundays ago it was an older gentleman who tripped and fell on the sidewalk, hitting his head. The odds of one of the many weekly church attendees having an accident in the parking lot are higher than the odds of a geocacher having an accident while retrieving a match stick container from a tree at the edge of the property.

 

That last sentence is kinda important. Obtaining permission form the Church (or from the owner/manager for any private property) and hiding a match stick in the nook of a tree that is reachable from the ground is one thing. Obtaining permission from the Church then hiding a cache 30' up in a tree, and the Church is probably going to be real concerned with liability issues.

 

One of my hides is hidden on private property with permission of the owner and I made sure, as much as I could, that the impact that geocachers would have on the property would be minimal.

 

 

[+gpsblake]

The church would be liable and it really depends on what kind of insurance they got. Their insurance for example might prohibit playing sports on the property. The best and most HONEST advice if the church is concerned is for them to call their insurance agent and ask them.

Edited April 15, 2015 by gpsblake