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Any guesses - TB's and Coins being held?


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We have a TB which took a bit of time and effort to produce but a cacher with a few finds picked it up and we thought nothing of it. But its been a little while now and as per Geocachings rules its a case of please move on within two weeks etc blah blah. So we've emailed to ask that our TB be moved on now so we can enjoy its journey and there has been no response.

 

I get that whole "we wouldnt worry until at least three four months has past" that usually gets posted but while its an opinion it is not usual and in our case against what we want. Besides this is a log from a TB they now hold that they retrieved and describes what they find shocking time scale wise ...

 

"I retrieved this geocoin from Mohawk test way #7 on the 10th april 2014 at about 3am. We were very excited to find this and went straight home to track the coin. We were shocked to see that it had sat around in that cache for around 6 weeks before we found it, most trackables are nabbed quickly. It is such a nice coin & it's goal of only being placed in ammo boxes is a brilliant idea. I am so eager to get this placed in an ammo box now and help to continue it's journey & ammo box adventures. Thank you to the owner (just ang) for placing this coin for us to have the pleasure of finding & placing it :)"

 

If someone picks up a TB they usually intend to move it on fairly quickly and it seems the case with these cachers until now. But they have not logged in for a few weeks. Nothing unusual there. But then I looked to see if maybe they were clueless about TB's and they arent. In fact I was surprised. These are all in their hands at the moment with some since March:

 

Travel Bugs

 

http://coord.info/TB55JNT

http://coord.info/TB4XGBR

http://coord.info/TB610P1

http://coord.info/TB55RV2

http://coord.info/TB5JVMR

http://coord.info/TB60ZN4

http://coord.info/TB2K6HH

http://coord.info/TB4Y4WQ

http://coord.info/TB1RG58

http://coord.info/TB2RZ55

http://coord.info/TB4X360

 

11 Travel Bugs in total

 

Coins

 

http://coord.info/TBPHBW

http://coord.info/TBY7WE

http://coord.info/TB16GR1

http://coord.info/TB1DJFR

http://coord.info/TB1H7N7

http://coord.info/TB4CART

http://coord.info/TB4FJAJ

http://coord.info/TB2VEQ3

http://coord.info/TB433YF

http://coord.info/TB4BMQF

http://coord.info/TB4FJJD

http://coord.info/TB3201E

http://coord.info/TB3ZB9D

http://coord.info/TB3JCPE

http://coord.info/TB39DRB

http://coord.info/TB4NK32

http://coord.info/TB4H6BG

http://coord.info/TB3JHM8

http://coord.info/TB3P9Z7

http://coord.info/TB5H6P1

http://coord.info/TB442RY

http://coord.info/TB4RMA6

http://coord.info/TB5XV6V

http://coord.info/TB24GKH

 

24 Coins/items with own icon in total

 

35 Items in Total.

 

Maybe we should send out a search party in case they are trapped in a hollow somewhere crushed under the weight of trackable items.

 

But seriously does anyone know them ... maybe they have passed away?

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It wasn't hard to figure out just what cacher you were speaking of....

 

They had a flurry of caching activity up to 24 April, and a few after that. But... it looks like all of their caching activity ceased on or shortly after 30 April.

 

There are lots of personal reasons why this could happen: surgery, illness, death, running from the government, running from the spouse, moving to take care of invalid family member -- the list is endless and even includes geocide... never to return to geocaching. Maybe it is something quite simple, like dropping and breaking their phone and can't afford another just yet. You just never know.

 

 

In that they don't respond to your email, unless you can locate one of their local geocaching friends to make contact with that person for you, you may never know anything more.

 

Other than that... you need to keep in mind that when you release it (a trackable), it's out of your hands -- literally.

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"We have a TB which took a bit of time and effort to produce"

 

Every TB is essentially a gift to the next person who finds it and will remain in play only until it meets somebody who decides otherwise. Since the destiny of almost all trackables is to disappear it's best to consider them already lost from the outset and each log an unexpected bonus.

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"We have a TB which took a bit of time and effort to produce"

 

Every TB is essentially a gift to the next person who finds it and will remain in play only until it meets somebody who decides otherwise. Since the destiny of almost all trackables is to disappear it's best to consider them already lost from the outset and each log an unexpected bonus.

Interesting concept....

Just how so is this a gift to the next person? It's not intended as a gift to anyone. It is meant to travel (period).

 

Do you consider it a "gift" because it increases their numbers of Trackables Logged? If so, I see that as selfish on the part of somebody moving or discovering it. But then too, the "numbers thing" in geocaching is lost on me, anyway.

 

Perhaps I am being selfish when I consider sending a TB out, assigning it a mission for others to fulfill.

I jump at the opportunity to fulfill the mission for a trackable, I never considered the "benefit" of it being another number for me. I still revel at being able to be the one to deliver a completed mission for a trackable. Have done a couple and I find that far more satisfying than getting another "number" added to my stats. Photos, also. So few it seem any more post photos... even though many TB pages request same.

 

I've always kind of wondered why so many trackable logs say, "Thank you for sharing this with me".

Kind of, sort of like the Intro-app auto-log "That's one more for me, thanks for the cache". Wham-bam, move on to the next and post the same (dumb) thing!

 

Folks who pick up, hold and yes, use Visit logs for ad nauseum pages and pages of unremarkable logs have lost sight (perhaps they never knew) of why a TB would be launched. Quite obviously, many don't even read the TB page to note a "Do not hold me" request. Maybe they do notice it -- and ignore it. More selfishness.

 

No, trackables aren't intended as a "gift" by any stretch of the imagination, unless it was specifically given as a gift.

Edited by Gitchee-Gummee
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Yes I think this fatalistic attitude towards the loss of TB's is both idiotic which it is regardless of politeness, and promotes a lax attitude towards respect towards others property. Note the attitude is idiotic not you.

 

I park a car in a street but I don't expect to come back and find it vandalised or worse. I leave a pram outside a shop therefore I am basically saying steal me. I leave my phone in a pub and I should just as well have thrown it in the sea. This silly statement is always trotted out and is asking people to accept being stupid. Please don't post statements like that implying we should all think along those lines. If that is your attitude then by all means enjoy ... but please don't tell me I'm to expect that. "I have to accept that". I really don't and nobody else has to either with regard to their property. In fact I find it quite rude. Besides it's rambling off topic as I was asking specifically about any ideas with regard to this situation and as it turns out because I didn't just go "oh well never mind I'll just have to always wonder whatever the mystery was behind that cacher" and I asked the question, I now have a perfect answer. Problem explained if not yet solved.

 

Lol just read the reply again - consider it lost and each log a bonus. Sorry but that is a crazy way to go about life.

Thank you to the posters who linked to the relevant thread it's pretty much as I thought. Circumstance. So wait and see when and what happens. No drama and if anybody wants me I'll be on a bridge throwing fivers into the river cause that's normal too.

 

EDIT: well I wasn't going to use the forum to be honest. But because so many TB/coins were involved I thought I better pipe up and at least point it out. And leave it at that. Surprised by the post others found regarding the holder and as explained I suspected as much. But as I replied just now (because I couldn't not reply) I see GG also posted at the same time. And I have to concur.

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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whilst you may not regard travellers to be a gift that is in effect what they are. You left an item of your property ina public place for anybody to do with what they will.

You may get lucky and for a while your traveller travels, but eventually the cache it is in will get muggled or or somebody will take it from a cache and then give up

caching, give it to their kids, lose it, or take a fancy to it for themselves, at least that what happened to almost all of mine which is why I gave up launching them.

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whilst you may not regard travellers to be a gift that is in effect what they are. You left an item of your property ina public place for anybody to do with what they will.

You may get lucky and for a while your traveller travels, but eventually the cache it is in will get muggled or or somebody will take it from a cache and then give up

caching, give it to their kids, lose it, or take a fancy to it for themselves, at least that what happened to almost all of mine which is why I gave up launching them.

 

Please do not post this. It is an 'opinion' and is not based in any fact at all.

 

It is personal property belonging to the TB owner with a specific purpose governed by terms and conditions to which 'any person picking up the TB' must adhere to. That is what is agreed when you use the site.

 

A cache is not a gift either and is also personal property and is also governed by those same terms and conditions.

 

Together they form a known act within the activity of geocaching.

 

Your post is an opinion or perception but is limited to you alone and is based in no 'fact' at all. To insist it does means you do not hold the terms and conditions of geocaching in any regard. Your post is also off topic. The topic being what is that person doing with our stuff. And as it turns out .... Not a lot.

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whilst you may not regard travellers to be a gift that is in effect what they are. You left an item of your property ina public place for anybody to do with what they will.

You may get lucky and for a while your traveller travels, but eventually the cache it is in will get muggled or or somebody will take it from a cache and then give up

caching, give it to their kids, lose it, or take a fancy to it for themselves, at least that what happened to almost all of mine which is why I gave up launching them.

 

Please do not post this. It is an 'opinion' and is not based in any fact at all.

 

It is personal property belonging to the TB owner with a specific purpose governed by terms and conditions to which 'any person picking up the TB' must adhere to. That is what is agreed when you use the site.

 

... except the muggle who finds the cache never agreed to those terms and conditions.

 

A cache is not a gift either and is also personal property and is also governed by those same terms and conditions.

 

... and likewise the muggle never agreed to those terms and conditions. The cache vandal who ticked all the boxes only to ignore the terms and conditions is unlikely to face any consequences - I'm sure the police have better things to do than hunt the person who stole the £5 token from a box under a dead tree when there are no witnesses to the theft and no information more useful than "it was stolen some time in the last six weeks or so".

 

Together they form a known act within the activity of geocaching.

 

Your post is an opinion or perception but is limited to you alone and is based in no 'fact' at all. To insist it does means you do not hold the terms and conditions of geocaching in any regard. Your post is also off topic. The topic being what is that person doing with our stuff. And as it turns out .... Not a lot.

 

I see it as nothing more than a realistic outlook. If you leave your personal property in a place where other people are encouraged to go and find it and move it, you increase the chance that one of those people will find it and keep it (or, to be more charitable, find it and lose it).

 

To roll with the analogy of leaving phones in pubs and cars in parking spaces, if I left my phone in the pub and didn't realise until the morning I'd hope it would still be there but realism tells me it probably won't be. Likewise I hope my car doesn't get vandalised but realism tells me it might be. If I left my car in some random area with the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition and didn't return for several weeks I would be surprised if it was still there. Whoever took it is still guilty of stealing but I'd struggle to find anybody would be surprised that it had been stolen.

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whilst you may not regard travellers to be a gift that is in effect what they are. You left an item of your property ina public place for anybody to do with what they will.

You may get lucky and for a while your traveller travels, but eventually the cache it is in will get muggled or or somebody will take it from a cache and then give up

caching, give it to their kids, lose it, or take a fancy to it for themselves, at least that what happened to almost all of mine which is why I gave up launching them.

 

Please do not post this. It is an 'opinion' and is not based in any fact at all.

 

It is personal property belonging to the TB owner with a specific purpose governed by terms and conditions to which 'any person picking up the TB' must adhere to. That is what is agreed when you use the site.

 

... except the muggle who finds the cache never agreed to those terms and conditions.

 

A cache is not a gift either and is also personal property and is also governed by those same terms and conditions.

 

... and likewise the muggle never agreed to those terms and conditions. The cache vandal who ticked all the boxes only to ignore the terms and conditions is unlikely to face any consequences - I'm sure the police have better things to do than hunt the person who stole the £5 token from a box under a dead tree when there are no witnesses to the theft and no information more useful than "it was stolen some time in the last six weeks or so".

 

Together they form a known act within the activity of geocaching.

 

Your post is an opinion or perception but is limited to you alone and is based in no 'fact' at all. To insist it does means you do not hold the terms and conditions of geocaching in any regard. Your post is also off topic. The topic being what is that person doing with our stuff. And as it turns out .... Not a lot.

 

I see it as nothing more than a realistic outlook. If you leave your personal property in a place where other people are encouraged to go and find it and move it, you increase the chance that one of those people will find it and keep it (or, to be more charitable, find it and lose it).

 

To roll with the analogy of leaving phones in pubs and cars in parking spaces, if I left my phone in the pub and didn't realise until the morning I'd hope it would still be there but realism tells me it probably won't be. Likewise I hope my car doesn't get vandalised but realism tells me it might be. If I left my car in some random area with the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition and didn't return for several weeks I would be surprised if it was still there. Whoever took it is still guilty of stealing but I'd struggle to find anybody would be surprised that it had been stolen.

 

You always do this TS. "Until this happens or that happens" yes but "what if that happens".

 

The fact is none of that is relevant. Because it has not happened. The "system" has worked totally correctly in every way. There are no imaginary circumstance that need mentioning because they have not happened.

 

In the Uk anything left intentionally or otherwise is still my property no matter what. If someone collects it/steals it/ removes it - under UK law - and intends to keep it - this is theft. There is a team of people working for the police who are leaving items in pubs and parks. They are GPS tagged. And when they go missing as they always do - they look them up and collect the item and the taker, in cuffs. It's plain and simple theft. No debate required about that. You cannot debate against a law only about the law. But that debate is fruitless as it won't be changed by any debate between us.

 

As for the cacher who has our stuff they are the instrument that has caused the "system" a temporary hiccup.

 

It seems they did attempt to ensure the safety of people's property. Their attempt predates my thread so therefore it was not my thread that prompted this act of conscience on their part. They have however gone dark it seems and hopefully those newbies with a few finds were not given all the TB's even though I am sure their I intensions at time of posting were well meant. I would fear - given that it is now 38 items - which exceeds their cache count at present - that they would lose interest in finding new homes for them all. Still live in hope an all that.

 

But this is all on topic about a specific scenario. We cannot drift off into random conclusions about what I or anyone else should come to expect when purchasing property and using a paid for system to place that property. Regardless of the reality in some cases, a lot of cases, it must be the rules and terms and conditions we fall back on and promote, NOT a ridiculous apathetic stance which educates readers to expect theft and accept it as the inevitable norm.

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whilst you may not regard travellers to be a gift that is in effect what they are. You left an item of your property ina public place for anybody to do with what they will.

You may get lucky and for a while your traveller travels, but eventually the cache it is in will get muggled or or somebody will take it from a cache and then give up

caching, give it to their kids, lose it, or take a fancy to it for themselves, at least that what happened to almost all of mine which is why I gave up launching them.

 

Please do not post this. It is an 'opinion' and is not based in any fact at all.

 

It is personal property belonging to the TB owner with a specific purpose governed by terms and conditions to which 'any person picking up the TB' must adhere to. That is what is agreed when you use the site.

 

... except the muggle who finds the cache never agreed to those terms and conditions.

 

A cache is not a gift either and is also personal property and is also governed by those same terms and conditions.

 

... and likewise the muggle never agreed to those terms and conditions. The cache vandal who ticked all the boxes only to ignore the terms and conditions is unlikely to face any consequences - I'm sure the police have better things to do than hunt the person who stole the £5 token from a box under a dead tree when there are no witnesses to the theft and no information more useful than "it was stolen some time in the last six weeks or so".

 

Together they form a known act within the activity of geocaching.

 

Your post is an opinion or perception but is limited to you alone and is based in no 'fact' at all. To insist it does means you do not hold the terms and conditions of geocaching in any regard. Your post is also off topic. The topic being what is that person doing with our stuff. And as it turns out .... Not a lot.

 

I see it as nothing more than a realistic outlook. If you leave your personal property in a place where other people are encouraged to go and find it and move it, you increase the chance that one of those people will find it and keep it (or, to be more charitable, find it and lose it).

 

To roll with the analogy of leaving phones in pubs and cars in parking spaces, if I left my phone in the pub and didn't realise until the morning I'd hope it would still be there but realism tells me it probably won't be. Likewise I hope my car doesn't get vandalised but realism tells me it might be. If I left my car in some random area with the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition and didn't return for several weeks I would be surprised if it was still there. Whoever took it is still guilty of stealing but I'd struggle to find anybody would be surprised that it had been stolen.

 

You always do this TS. "Until this happens or that happens" yes but "what if that happens".

 

The fact is none of that is relevant. Because it has not happened. The "system" has worked totally correctly in every way. There are no imaginary circumstance that need mentioning because they have not happened.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. What system has worked totally correctly in every way?

 

In the Uk anything left intentionally or otherwise is still my property no matter what. If someone collects it/steals it/ removes it - under UK law - and intends to keep it - this is theft. There is a team of people working for the police who are leaving items in pubs and parks. They are GPS tagged. And when they go missing as they always do - they look them up and collect the item and the taker, in cuffs. It's plain and simple theft. No debate required about that. You cannot debate against a law only about the law. But that debate is fruitless as it won't be changed by any debate between us.

 

Sure it's theft. It's just hard to see the police taking it very seriously when the item is of virtually no value and has been deliberately left behind with the express intention that someone else should take it and put it somewhere else.

 

The police leaving stuff behind to track thieves is wonderful, but it doesn't help me if I leave my phone behind and someone takes it away. The debate isn't about the law, it's about the simple reality that sometimes people steal stuff, and the police don't have the resources to investigate reports of a theft of an item of trivial value that was deliberately left in a way that left it vulnerable to being taken away, as part of a game that actively encouraged people to take it away with them. Unless you'd want to make it a criminal offence to give up geocaching, or to take a break from geocaching, or to misunderstand how to play the game of geocaching, or to simply lose an item from your possession, then you'd struggle to enforce any law against someone even if they were found to have the trackable in their possession. A newbie could say they found a cache and traded like it said on the laminated sheet and they didn't realise the trackable wasn't a trade item. Anyone else could say they'd taken it but hadn't got around to placing it yet, or that they had been meaning to place it and just hadn't found any caches for a while because of other commitments. What happens then? Would you propose the police took the trackable away as evidence? Should the errant trackable holder receive a police caution? At what point does the process lose credibility to the point of becoming laughable?

 

As for the cacher who has our stuff they are the instrument that has caused the "system" a temporary hiccup.

 

It seems they did attempt to ensure the safety of people's property. Their attempt predates my thread so therefore it was not my thread that prompted this act of conscience on their part. They have however gone dark it seems and hopefully those newbies with a few finds were not given all the TB's even though I am sure their I intensions at time of posting were well meant. I would fear - given that it is now 38 items - which exceeds their cache count at present - that they would lose interest in finding new homes for them all. Still live in hope an all that.

 

This all sounds well and good but the brutal reality is that sometimes, for a variety of reasons, people lose trackables and people stop caching. Some of those people will look to get trackables back into circulation while others will not. Still others may not even remember they have the trackables. With the best will in the world, people make mistakes. I remember finding a TB in a dark corner of a bag several months after attending an event - I put it in the next cache I visited that would take it, but had I given up on geocaching in the meantime it's hard to know whether I'd have sought out a cache to get it moving again or just left it in a drawer somewhere.

 

But this is all on topic about a specific scenario. We cannot drift off into random conclusions about what I or anyone else should come to expect when purchasing property and using a paid for system to place that property. Regardless of the reality in some cases, a lot of cases, it must be the rules and terms and conditions we fall back on and promote, NOT a ridiculous apathetic stance which educates readers to expect theft and accept it as the inevitable norm.

 

Using terms like "property" to refer to trackables might be technically correct from a strict legalistic viewpoint but realistically speaking if you're not willing to regard a trackable as being the equivalent of a £10 note folded into a paper aeroplane and thrown from a tall building just to see where it ends up, you probably shouldn't be releasing them. The chances are very high that sooner or later they will go missing and, whatever the legalistic technicalities might say about taking trackables being considered theft, the police are unlikely to have the resources to investigate such a trivial incident.

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Sure it's theft ...

 

... exactly and no need to elaborate

 

The police leaving stuff behind to track thieves is wonderful, but it doesn't help me if I leave my phone behind and someone takes it away...

 

Except a TB isnt 'forgotten' property like your phone. It has been placed in accordance with a known procedure using the terms and conditions of geocaching.com, to which 'all' users are required to abide. You keep drifting off into situations which do not apply. A TB isnt; left/discarded/forgotten/abandoned or anything else other than 'PLACED' in accordance with the procedures laid down by geocaching.com. Your analogies must be in context with this situation.

 

The debate isn't about the law, it's about the simple reality that sometimes people steal stuff, and the police don't have the resources to investigate reports of a theft of an item of trivial value that was deliberately ...

 

... you wrote a lot of conjecture and ramblings off topic thereafter but this point i'll take. No the debate isnt about the law but you are debating it non the less. So I'll not waste space as you agree it is the law. As for the resources you are again muddling the mud. They are required to give you a crime reference number. Which is all you need to pursue the situation yourself. I am not going to let you drift on down into costs and the nitty gritty rubbish of who could be bothered ... your point was that it is impossible. And for that you are wrong. Perfectly possible, for any who can be bothered. Please do not clutch at conjecture and ask who could be bothered etc ... it is perfectly possible. There are so many different types of theft that one law has been created to cover them all. Therefore ALL are covered.

 

This all sounds well and good but the brutal reality is that sometimes, for a variety of reasons, people lose trackables and people stop caching. Some of those people will look to get trackables back into circulation while others will not. Still others may not even remember they have the trackables. With the best will in the world, people make mistakes ...

 

... more padding followed but you have just stated the obvious here and for what reason I do not know.

 

Using terms like "property" to refer to trackables might be technically correct from a strict legalistic viewpoint but realistically speaking if you're not willing to regard a trackable as being the equivalent of a £10 note folded into a ...

 

... well this is a repeat of a few paragraphs up and I have covered that but because it IS technically correct, a legal standpoint can be created. Simple.

 

Finally, this

I am not sure what system you think has worked perfectly well
... back on topic then. The system that has worked perfectly is that I placed a TB out as have 37/38 other people and they have been moving around ... as per the system ... from cacher/cache to cache/cacher. Until now (the hiccup) where they have ceased to move. Although they may yet continue to do so in the future.

 

Your opinion ... incorrectly ... is that we should all roll over give up. You have used conjecture as evidence of facts and theyare not facts they are assumptions, your assumptions. You have incorrectly trivialised the financial value of the missing TB's and used your oft trotted dead horse analogy of the folded £10 and tall building etc ... but this is not the case here. 38 items. Some coins and some TB's. At an average cost of £5.00 for the trackable item alone this comes to £190.00. Not trivial in anyones pocket. Some of those are coins an will be between £12.00 and £25.00 ... the cost is yet more. There are items purchased to go on the TB tag itself ... more cost.

 

I cannot, and will not be told I must accept this as some inevitable thing. I am amazed that you are so apathetic with regard to the law, personal property and the terms and conditions of this website, to the point where you are fighting tooth and nail to enforce your viewpoint on others who will read this thread including me. Perhaps if you employed as much energy informing others of how things should be done instead of how they should not, more readers of this thread would be inspired to do the same and things would get better, quicker.

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Sure it's theft ...

 

... exactly and no need to elaborate

 

The police leaving stuff behind to track thieves is wonderful, but it doesn't help me if I leave my phone behind and someone takes it away...

 

Except a TB isnt 'forgotten' property like your phone. It has been placed in accordance with a known procedure using the terms and conditions of geocaching.com, to which 'all' users are required to abide. You keep drifting off into situations which do not apply. A TB isnt; left/discarded/forgotten/abandoned or anything else other than 'PLACED' in accordance with the procedures laid down by geocaching.com. Your analogies must be in context with this situation.

 

The debate isn't about the law, it's about the simple reality that sometimes people steal stuff, and the police don't have the resources to investigate reports of a theft of an item of trivial value that was deliberately ...

 

... you wrote a lot of conjecture and ramblings off topic thereafter but this point i'll take. No the debate isnt about the law but you are debating it non the less. So I'll not waste space as you agree it is the law. As for the resources you are again muddling the mud. They are required to give you a crime reference number. Which is all you need to pursue the situation yourself. I am not going to let you drift on down into costs and the nitty gritty rubbish of who could be bothered ... your point was that it is impossible. And for that you are wrong. Perfectly possible, for any who can be bothered. Please do not clutch at conjecture and ask who could be bothered etc ... it is perfectly possible. There are so many different types of theft that one law has been created to cover them all. Therefore ALL are covered.

 

This all sounds well and good but the brutal reality is that sometimes, for a variety of reasons, people lose trackables and people stop caching. Some of those people will look to get trackables back into circulation while others will not. Still others may not even remember they have the trackables. With the best will in the world, people make mistakes ...

 

... more padding followed but you have just stated the obvious here and for what reason I do not know.

 

Using terms like "property" to refer to trackables might be technically correct from a strict legalistic viewpoint but realistically speaking if you're not willing to regard a trackable as being the equivalent of a £10 note folded into a ...

 

... well this is a repeat of a few paragraphs up and I have covered that but because it IS technically correct, a legal standpoint can be created. Simple.

 

Finally, this

I am not sure what system you think has worked perfectly well
... back on topic then. The system that has worked perfectly is that I placed a TB out as have 37/38 other people and they have been moving around ... as per the system ... from cacher/cache to cache/cacher. Until now (the hiccup) where they have ceased to move. Although they may yet continue to do so in the future.

 

So go ahead and file a civil suit against whoever it was who took your precious toy with a metal tag attached. Given how many possible lines of defence they might have against a charge of theft (including but not limited to not realising it wasn't a trade item, planning to move it on but not finding other caches etc), see how far it gets you. Do it often enough and you might get yourself a tag. I think they call it "vexatious litigant".

 

You can keep referring to the terms and conditions all you want. If you really feel it would help go ahead and sue someone in the Washington courts for a breach of the terms they agreed to. Or hunt down the muggle and demand they adhere to the terms they didn't even know existed, and watch them claim it was a low value item they assumed was abandoned, and maybe even claim they took it to the police as lost property only to be told not to bother. Maybe they'll claim they did take it to the police only to be given it when nobody claimed it. Now what?

 

Your opinion ... incorrectly ... is that we should all roll over give up. You have used conjecture as evidence of facts and theyare not facts they are assumptions, your assumptions. You have incorrectly trivialised the financial value of the missing TB's and used your oft trotted dead horse analogy of the folded £10 and tall building etc ... but this is not the case here. 38 items. Some coins and some TB's. At an average cost of £5.00 for the trackable item alone this comes to £190.00. Not trivial in anyones pocket. Some of those are coins an will be between £12.00 and £25.00 ... the cost is yet more. There are items purchased to go on the TB tag itself ... more cost.

 

Wow, hold the front page. Especially since the person holding so many explicitly posted to explain why they hadn't moved them on and appeared to make at least some effort to get them moving again. Or should it become a crime to find that for some unstated reason it is impractical or impossible to continue geocaching for a time?

 

I cannot, and will not be told I must accept this as some inevitable thing. I am amazed that you are so apathetic with regard to the law, personal property and the terms and conditions of this website, to the point where you are fighting tooth and nail to enforce your viewpoint on others who will read this thread including me. Perhaps if you employed as much energy informing others of how things should be done instead of how they should not, more readers of this thread would be inspired to do the same and things would get better, quicker.

 

I'd say I'm more realistic - to summarise the whole "problem" with two words - "Stuff happens" (substitute "Stuff" for other words as you see fit). I'm not trying to force my viewpoint any more than you are, we merely have opposing viewpoints where you clearly think the police should get involved every time a Happy Meal toy with a tag goes missing and I take a more philosophical viewpoint that "stuff happens". Terms and conditions are great but clearly not everybody obeys them, and the brutal reality is that it's all but impossible to bring theft charges against low-level stealing of trackables without spending resources that are totally out of proportion to the value of the items concerned.

 

For the record every single one of the TBs I released went missing, mostly after three or fewer movements. It's one of those things. I'm not going to expect Groundspeak to give me the name and address of the last known cachers so I can warn them to expect a visit from Plod.

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