GeoArt Caches - nothing more than PTs?

[+WearyTraveler]

I have to admit that I haven't completed a GA cache yet, but I've figured the answers and plotted them on a map. Yep, they're all there, in a line, with not much distance between...

 

I like PTs (I also like the "one cache per day" caches too...).

 

I guess my question is, are GA caches nothing more than PTs that require more thought from both CO and seeker?

 

I do like the front end thought requirement.

[+Manville Possum]

I don't think it's art, just a PT along a road with ? caches every 528 feet.

[+igator210]

Check out Smilie #1 and Pi #1 for examples of Geoart that is neither a quick solve nor a straight line power trail.

 

I will also say, for the New Hampsire Star, while easy to solve, was no easy walk in the woods.

Edited May 8, 2017 by igator210

[+humboldt flier]

Some are, some are not:

 

To wit: The Alien Head, The Spaceship near Rachel, Nevada. The smiley face in the cider cone N.E. of Redding, Calif. Kokopelli and Polaris W.N.W. of St. George, Utah.

[+L0ne.R]

Some are PTs, some aren't....but generally they do saturate areas with cheap containers.

Many involve a lot of caches (50+), which require a lot of area in a town/city/park-or-forest-space (or if those are already full - the country roads will start to fill). And most of those final caches are pill bottles, or bulk knock-off bison tubes, or some similar quality cheap container, because placing that many authentic palm-size Lock&Locks would cost $100+.

Edited May 8, 2017 by L0ne.R

[+J Grouchy]

I wouldn't call this one a PT...though I almost wish it was based on how much driving the actual caches require:

 

Geo-art:

 

Solved:

[+Touchstone]

I know of a couple of geo-art type caches that require some elaborate puzzles, and the locations are by no means in a linear line like a power trail. YMMV.

[+SerenitySearchers]

Some are PT's..

However, some are not. We have done a bit of both...

Always good to read the past logs on these before setting out, there is often great explanations of time/difficulty/miles involved.

Either way, it is fun to add the smile art to the map!

[+L0ne.R]

it is fun to add the smile art to the map!

 

How does everyone manage to find every puzzle cache in a GeoArt? I have yet to accomplish this. I haven't been able to figure out each puzzle, sometimes even after getting a nudge. Or I figure it out but when I get there it's too difficult to find, requires a second attempt or a nudge from the owner. And sometimes the final cache is missing.

 

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

[+SerenitySearchers]

it is fun to add the smile art to the map!

 

How does everyone manage to find every puzzle cache in a GeoArt? I have yet to accomplish this.

 

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

 

Not all GeoArt creations are equal, some can be solved easily and were intended that way, and others not... we personally choose ones that we feel we can be successful at, and leave the ones that present too large a challenge for us at that time.

 

Distinguishing is all in your perspective, and again not all are equal. We have several that are very fun and easily distinguished from the rest of the map.

[+hzoi]

How does everyone manage to find every puzzle cache in a GeoArt?

There was a geo art series near us, of which I must have DNF'd at least a dozen. Apparently I took it too seriously, as I actually left DNFs for the caches I hadn't found and expected the CO to replace their own caches. I presume the CO maintained it for a time, but by the time I started chipping away at it, some folks completed it by bringing their own caches to fill the holes where necessary. Or, in the case of one cacher from well outside the area, they felt justified in logging finds even for the caches they hadn't found

 

because I would really, really like the geo-art to be complete in smileys on the map.

 

 

Ten years on and we still haven't learned how to cache the right way. I reckon I'm just a slow learner.

[+The Jester]

it is fun to add the smile art to the map!

 

How does everyone manage to find every puzzle cache in a GeoArt? I have yet to accomplish this. I haven't been able to figure out each puzzle, sometimes even after getting a nudge. Or I figure it out but when I get there it's too difficult to find, requires a second attempt or a nudge from the owner. And sometimes the final cache is missing.

 

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

The smileys show up at the listed co-ords of puzzles, not the final locations, so "seeing" the geoart is (generally) easy.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I was kind of hurt that some cachers considered my GeoArt to be a Power Trail. And some even moved the containers! I had four or five types of containers. Puzzles easy to tough. Even had a 5/1.

Yes. All micros. Along four miles of walkway (With a few a distance off.) All had beautiful views of NYC.

I never considered it a Power Trail, and was hurt that some cachers did.

[+bflentje]

I was kind of hurt that some cachers considered my GeoArt to be a Power Trail. And some even moved the containers! I had four or five types of containers. Puzzles easy to tough. Even had a 5/1.

Yes. All micros. Along four miles of walkway (With a few a distance off.) All had beautiful views of NYC.

I never considered it a Power Trail, and was hurt that some cachers did.

 

Hurt? Really? I'd be irritated that containers were moved but I wouldn't care what they called it.

 

I thought this whole container leapfrogging thing was some lame practice that only happened on the ET highway. You telling me people are doing this outside of that scenario now? Oh brother.

[+SerenitySearchers]

 

I thought this whole container leapfrogging thing was some lame practice that only happened on the ET highway. You telling me people are doing this outside of that scenario now? Oh brother.

 

Yes, sadly, it is happening on PT's in many locations. We just experienced this practice while doing the Hog Trial in West Virginia. While we don't agree that this is good practice, we just go with it. On the other hand, when it comes to a true PT, I suppose I can see the point of why some practice this. Either way, we eat.. sleep... and breath.. Geocaching every moment we can... every smile is not only a number but an adventure and memory... so rather than make the rules or worry about how others follow/or don't.. we find serenity in what we do.

 

When we get to the ET Highway... we will practice this as well

[+dprovan]

How does everyone manage to find every puzzle cache in a GeoArt? I have yet to accomplish this. I haven't been able to figure out each puzzle, sometimes even after getting a nudge. Or I figure it out but when I get there it's too difficult to find, requires a second attempt or a nudge from the owner. And sometimes the final cache is missing.

The two pieces of art I've completed were local, so I just kept working at it until I completed them. One had simple puzzles that were meant to be solved, and the other had impossible puzzles that required all the puzzle experts in the San Francisco Bay Area to solve, but I got to watch them do it and copy down the answers.

 

Neither of these were power trails. One was a memorial series with different kinds of hides by different COs covering a ridge in a park. The other got a special exception granted allowing the caches to be up to 4 miles from the posted coordinates, so they were scattered all around the southern end of the San Francisco Bay.

 

But I think the SF Bay Area's take on geoart is fairly uncommon: I would assume that in most cases, since there are so many caches, they tend to be laid up in a simple manner, and the easiest way to do that is with minimum distances, brainless hides, and cheap containers all the same. In other words, a power trail.

 

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

The two I completed were isolated. One is a giant "V" in the middle of the SF Bay, and the other was a memorial flame placed where there would be no normal caches.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I was kind of hurt that some cachers considered my GeoArt to be a Power Trail. And some even moved the containers! I had four or five types of containers. Puzzles easy to tough. Even had a 5/1.

Yes. All micros. Along four miles of walkway (With a few a distance off.) All had beautiful views of NYC.

I never considered it a Power Trail, and was hurt that some cachers did.

 

Hurt? Really? I'd be irritated that containers were moved but I wouldn't care what they called it.

 

I thought this whole container leapfrogging thing was some lame practice that only happened on the ET highway. You telling me people are doing this outside of that scenario now? Oh brother.

 

Yes. The MKH from #19 was taken, and nothing left. It showed up where the nano used to be. That means the nano probably ended up where the fake bolt was. And the fake bolt was probably left in the bushes where the bison tube used to be. Would explain why no one could find the fake bolt.

[+WearyTraveler]

I was kind of hurt that some cachers considered my GeoArt to be a Power Trail. And some even moved the containers! I had four or five types of containers. Puzzles easy to tough. Even had a 5/1.

Yes. All micros. Along four miles of walkway (With a few a distance off.) All had beautiful views of NYC.

I never considered it a Power Trail, and was hurt that some cachers did.

 

Hurt? Really? I'd be irritated that containers were moved but I wouldn't care what they called it.

 

I thought this whole container leapfrogging thing was some lame practice that only happened on the ET highway. You telling me people are doing this outside of that scenario now? Oh brother.

 

Yes. The MKH from #19 was taken, and nothing left. It showed up where the nano used to be. That means the nano probably ended up where the fake bolt was. And the fake bolt was probably left in the bushes where the bison tube used to be. Would explain why no one could find the fake bolt.

 

I talked to a cacher in an event I attended. When he described how he and his group moved / stepped (?) the caches (I think it was the alien out west) I couldn't fathom that. He said how the duties were divvied up. One drove, one navigated, one furiously scribbled names in the soon to be swapped container and the fourth waited for the car to stop so he could make the cache n dash. I think he mentioned that they got over a thousand that night Yikes. I guess there are different extremes for PTs!

 

Like I mentioned further up - kinda like a long distance Chinese fire drill. I wouldn't mind giving that a try some day, just for the experience.

 

I'm thinking about going after the TMHCR and WV Star GeoArts as my initiation into GAing...

[+redsox_mark]

There isn't a clear definition of what a Power Trail is. At one extreme, clearly 1000 caches 0.1 miles apart along a road is a PT. But some will say 30 caches along a hiking trail is also a PT, some will not.

 

Anyway, I've done 4 Geo arts. I would not say any of them were power trails. Three of them had the caches spreadout over an area maybe 30 miles by 30 miles. One I did in a day, the others 2 days, both cases a lot of driving, then some walking to each.

The 4th was only 13 caches, in a remote desert, off-road. You could drive to them, but the driving was challenging.

 

I'm sure some (perhaps many) are more like a PT, whatever you consider a PT to be.

[+Isonzo Karst]

are GA caches nothing more than PTs that require more thought from both CO and seeker?

 

Mostly, yes. Sometimes no.

 

There are a several GeoArt series in Florida that are Traditional caches, with some moderate to tough to tougher terrain - and some easy to harder finds. There's some really large Geoart groups in the west that are largely Trads.

 

Coexist geocache map Ocala National Forest, much of this is in tough tight scrub. Ammo cans, preforms and I don't what they're using for smalls now. Started with L&L, but the bears like to chew on those, so they gave up on them.

 

Cross geocache map, near roads, but those are forest roads 4x only, and the back and forth is such that it works best to park once, and whack from one to another.

 

PGF Leaf - this starts a ways from any available parking and utilizes zero trail. I was mildly surprised that the property manager went for it, but the organizer knew it would be a lot of work, so explicitly cleared it with them first.

[+igator210]

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

 

If you are looking a Grouchy's second screenshot, that is with corrected coordinates. Yes, it looks like a jumble. If you look at the regular map, or remove the corrected coordinates, you see the GeoArt as intended, with smilies.

[+J Grouchy]

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

 

If you are looking a Grouchy's second screenshot, that is with corrected coordinates. Yes, it looks like a jumble. If you look at the regular map, or remove the corrected coordinates, you see the GeoArt as intended, with smilies.

 

That's correct...the second is the pocket query using the corrected coordinates. They don't show up like that on the regular map before or after the finds. I haven't found any of these, by the way...that geo-art is way up in the 'burbs where I rarely ever go.

[+Rustynails]

I don't think it's art, just a PT along a road with ? caches every 528 feet.

 

They might not be a Picasso or Rembrandt but they're art. Not all are ? or traditionals. This one might surprise you. https://coord.info/GC672VR

Edited May 10, 2017 by rustynails.

[+noncentric]

I was kind of hurt that some cachers considered my GeoArt to be a Power Trail. And some even moved the containers! I had four or five types of containers. Puzzles easy to tough. Even had a 5/1.

Yes. All micros. Along four miles of walkway (With a few a distance off.) All had beautiful views of NYC.

I never considered it a Power Trail, and was hurt that some cachers did.

Hurt? Really? I'd be irritated that containers were moved but I wouldn't care what they called it.

 

I thought this whole container leapfrogging thing was some lame practice that only happened on the ET highway. You telling me people are doing this outside of that scenario now? Oh brother.

I saw the moved containers happen at a 26-cache series. I noticed that some hides didn't match their own hints, but did match the hints of other hides. I made a list of everything to send to the CO, along with a note of which ones were wet and/or had full logs. A maintenance run happened a few weeks later.

 

I talked to a cacher in an event I attended. When he described how he and his group moved / stepped (?) the caches (I think it was the alien out west) I couldn't fathom that. He said how the duties were divvied up. One drove, one navigated, one furiously scribbled names in the soon to be swapped container and the fourth waited for the car to stop so he could make the cache n dash. I think he mentioned that they got over a thousand that night Yikes. I guess there are different extremes for PTs!

 

Like I mentioned further up - kinda like a long distance Chinese fire drill. I wouldn't mind giving that a try some day, just for the experience.

There are videos on YouTube showing the 4-cacher team method of hitting power trails. A search of 'caching et power trail' will give you some results.

 

And how do you distinguish the geoart on your map, amongst all the other smileys? Actually, you can't can you? J Grouchy's screenshot reminds me that you can't, it's a jumble of smiley icons in the final locations.

Yes, you can. Caches with corrected coords can be viewed at their listed coords (browse geocache map) or at their corrected coords (map search results).

 

That's correct...the second is the pocket query using the corrected coordinates. They don't show up like that on the regular map before or after the finds. I haven't found any of these, by the way...that geo-art is way up in the 'burbs where I rarely ever go.

Isn't your second photo kinda a spoiler? I mean, it shows the final locations of puzzle caches, which I thought was a no-no. Granted, the solved locations are at a zoomed out level, but still.

[+J Grouchy]

 

That's correct...the second is the pocket query using the corrected coordinates. They don't show up like that on the regular map before or after the finds. I haven't found any of these, by the way...that geo-art is way up in the 'burbs where I rarely ever go.

Isn't your second photo kinda a spoiler? I mean, it shows the final locations of puzzle caches, which I thought was a no-no. Granted, the solved locations are at a zoomed out level, but still.

 

Hey, if anyone manages to find any of those based on that zoom level, I'd say they earned it. All of the "puzzles" are just trivia questions from the reality show "Survivor". I've never watched the show and was able to solve them all pretty quickly.

[+Manville Possum]

I don't think it's art, just a PT along a road with ? caches every 528 feet.

 

They might not be a Picasso or Rembrandt but they're art. Not all are ? or traditionals. This one might surprise you. https://coord.info/GC672VR

 

I disagree that plotting coordinates on a map to look like an image and then hide pill bottle PT's can be called art. It's clutter on a geocaching map, nothing more.

 

There are a few made of traditionals at the actual posted coordinates that are art, but not that Wherigo that you linked.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

So far the discussion has been around how caches that are part of a GeoArt can be seen on a map. The question I would have is that when one is actually out finding, say 150 caches in a GeoArt is the experience fundamentally different from finding 150 caches on a PT. The answer, of course, is "it depends" on how much effort the CO has put into making the actual hides (and locations) interesting. Although there are going to be exceptions, it seems to me that if the primary motivation for placing a group of caches is based upon how the published coordinates appear on a map, there is a good chance that the CO is going to put less effort into creating an interesting caching experience for each individual cache in the series. For a PT, the primary criteria is generally to create as many hides as possible such that the distance between them is as close as possible and the containers found easily so that finds can "power through" a bunch of finds as fast as possible. When one considers the primary reason for creating a PT or GeoArt is not about creating an unique experience for each individual cache, there lies a similarity.

[+redsox_mark]

So far the discussion has been around how caches that are part of a GeoArt can be seen on a map. The question I would have is that when one is actually out finding, say 150 caches in a GeoArt is the experience fundamentally different from finding 150 caches on a PT. The answer, of course, is "it depends" on how much effort the CO has put into making the actual hides (and locations) interesting. Although there are going to be exceptions, it seems to me that if the primary motivation for placing a group of caches is based upon how the published coordinates appear on a map, there is a good chance that the CO is going to put less effort into creating an interesting caching experience for each individual cache in the series. For a PT, the primary criteria is generally to create as many hides as possible such that the distance between them is as close as possible and the containers found easily so that finds can "power through" a bunch of finds as fast as possible. When one considers the primary reason for creating a PT or GeoArt is not about creating an unique experience for each individual cache, there lies a similarity.

 

I partially agree.

 

I agree that, in general, if a CO is setting a trail of 150 caches, there will be less effort put into each individual hide then if they are hiding just one cache. There are just practical issues of time and expense for containers. Still, some will use 150 identical poor containers (e.g. pill container), while others will use a variety of waterproof containers etc.

 

But I don't think that because a CO who wants to set a trail of 150 caches also decides it would be fun to make a geo-art shape makes that trail likely to be worse than any trail which doesn't make geo-art.

 

And it is just my experience, but none of the Geo-art series I've done resulted in a trail with the distance as close as possible.

Edited May 10, 2017 by redsox_mark

[+bflentje]

I fail to see why it even matters that some consider it art and others don't. Yawn.

[+GrateBear]

The only problem I see with either, is that over time, the original containers get lost/broken/disappear, and someone throws down a pill bottle/Aleve container/cheap plastic container. At some point, these should be archived. Or, is it expected that the CO will replace those, which could run into hundreds needing replacement?

[+WearyTraveler]

The only problem I see with either, is that over time, the original containers get lost/broken/disappear, and someone throws down a pill bottle/Aleve container/cheap plastic container. At some point, these should be archived. Or, is it expected that the CO will replace those, which could run into hundreds needing replacement?

 

Same issue with normal PTs.

 

Actually - same issue with prolific COs...

[+ArtieD]

I don't think it's art, just a PT along a road with ? caches every 528 feet.

 

They might not be a Picasso or Rembrandt but they're art. Not all are ? or traditionals. This one might surprise you. https://coord.info/GC672VR

 

I disagree that plotting coordinates on a map to look like an image and then hide pill bottle PT's can be called art. It's clutter on a geocaching map, nothing more.

 

There are a few made of traditionals at the actual posted coordinates that are art, but not that Wherigo that you linked.

 

So it's only art if it's made out of a certain kind of cache? That is ludicrous.

[+CheekyBrit]

"Clutter on the map", I disagree, but definitely see where you're coming from. My GeoArts are almost all built with a container at the posted coordinates. Exceptions are a few multi caches where a virtual stage is used, such as finding the numbers on a utility pole to solve the puzzle or guide you through the maze on the cache page. In building 3 GeoArts in South East Idaho I've been trying to be mindful of GeoArt crimes we should avoid.

My wife and I just finished a Golden Cactus GeoArt of Multi caches in Pocatello. Each one was custom made and is in a residential area. There was a lot of canvassing and I'd like to think we avoided many GeoArt pitfalls. Not just in a straight line for the finals, not just cheap containers - some of them were handmade gadget caches, and we tried to make each one on its own a geocache worth going for. Some say GeoArt blocks a perfectly good area from having geocaches so we picked residential since it wouldn't be easy for others to build here anyway. It took a lot of teamwork with local homeowners and a lot of bribing with British Chocolate.

I'm about to build a British Flag GeoArt using challenge caches and Multi caches as the blue and red(ish) of the flag. 114 geocaches with 184 total containers. Each one is a centrifuge container in a pvc sleeve pounded into the ground so they'll last a long time. Since this is bordering on burying, I got explicit permission from the landowner. The whole thing should be about 2 miles wide and the Queen should have gotten my letter about it by now. It's in honor of her Platinum Jubilee. None of these are the biggest, the best, or the most numerous - not by a long shot, but I thought you'd all enjoy the effort to take your pet peeves into consideration. The Union Jack flag GeoArt should go live June 5th 2022.

I've not seen challenge caches used in a GeoArt before and thought I'd give it a go. It's only 44 challenges but should make some people happy.

[+STNolan]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:10 PM, CheekyBrit said:

I've not seen challenge caches used in a GeoArt before and thought I'd give it a go. It's only 44 challenges but should make some people happy.

 

Funny, I've seen your name in the Project GC forums a bit lately - I'm also working on a Geoart with Challenges (albeit much less ambitious than yours). 

[+JustFindingOurWay]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:10 PM, CheekyBrit said:

I've not seen challenge caches used in a GeoArt before and thought I'd give it a go. It's only 44 challenges but should make some people happy.

 

Take a look at https://coord.info/GC427Z3 in New Mexico. 37 challenge caches forming a question mark. I've signed them all, but still have one that hasn't turned into a smiley yet.

[+CheekyBrit]

IT'S DONE. Here is a Cheeky British GeoArt I put out that isn't along a road. You need to hike to each one. The blue are challenge caches so they are at the posted location and the multi cache finals are mostly 300' or so away from their posted coordinates. GC9T633

Edited June 7, 2022 by CheekyBrit

[+Viajero Perdido]

In my mind, this is the ultimate geo-art.  220 traditionals, and that's 11km from top to bottom.  It's all thick Canadian bush and muskeg, and there's only one usable road, the one going across the upper-middle.  Walk to the rest.  The FTF'er of one of the caches was jumped by a grizzly bear as he was reaching for the cache (he's OK), so the fish-and-wildlife guys signed in for him the next day. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Viajero Perdido
Extra pic

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Both at real locations, not power trails. Bring lots of water, sunscreen and good hiking boots. Terrain is relatively flat and easy.

 

N 42° 53.622' W 116° 11.103'

 

N 43° 17.146' W 116° 22.387'