Consecutive Needs Maintenance finds.

[+Team_Vod]

since May 18 I have located and found no less than 9 cache's. Of these 9 four of them need maintenance. One because it was possibly misplaced, one because it needs a new log, another because it is missing the lid/cap and the log and another because there is only the cap, no container, log & possible swag.

 

All of these are difficulty level of 1.5 or less, they are all in an urban area, the city of Sioux City, Iowa. Some are in high traffic areas for people and vehicles, one is near a construction zone.

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

[+Manville Possum]

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

In some areas, yes it is typical. My son and I went about 5 out of 5 with DNF's last weekend and posted our NM's and NA's accordingly.

[+CFphoto]

Around here 80% of my 'finds' are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

Edited May 20, 2016 by CFphoto

[+Team_Vod]

Around here 80% of my finds are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

 

What part of the east coast of Iowa are you on?

 

Sorry I should have checked your profile before I asked. You are not on the east coast, but the eastern half of the state.

Edited May 20, 2016 by SUX_VR_40_Rider

[+The A-Team]

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

Depending on the area, it could be. For example, urban areas will tend to have a better chance of muggles stumbling onto them simply due to the higher number of people. These are usually also the more-frequently found caches, which means more chance of a muggle seeing a cacher find the cache, cachers not rehiding it properly, log filling up, etc.

[+CFphoto]

Around here 80% of my finds are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

 

What part of the east coast of Iowa are you on?

 

Sorry I should have checked your profile before I asked. You are not on the east coast, but the eastern half of the state.

 

No worries! My son and I have been out several times in the last couple days and of the real caches we've found we've only had 50% be NM or NA! It's actually way above average for us.

[Pup Patrol]

since May 18 I have located and found no less than 9 cache's. Of these 9 four of them need maintenance. One because it was possibly misplaced, one because it needs a new log, another because it is missing the lid/cap and the log and another because there is only the cap, no container, log & possible swag.

 

All of these are difficulty level of 1.5 or less, they are all in an urban area, the city of Sioux City, Iowa. Some are in high traffic areas for people and vehicles, one is near a construction zone.

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

You didn't find the caches. You didn't sign the log, because you didn't find a container with a log in it.

 

You don't have to post a "found it" just to post an NM log. A dnf would be the way to go, along with an NM.

 

This gives the false impression that the caches are still there. No container, no log = no cache.

 

One of the NM logs on one of the caches you recently found wasn't really a "NM". It was someone asking if the cache was still there.

 

B.

[+Team_Vod]

As I check the status of the cache's I reported an NM for and if I see nothing has been done say after a month or so would it be a good idea to report an NA? Also are reviewers notified of either NM and/or NA reports?

[+Team_Vod]

since May 18 I have located and found no less than 9 cache's. Of these 9 four of them need maintenance. One because it was possibly misplaced, one because it needs a new log, another because it is missing the lid/cap and the log and another because there is only the cap, no container, log & possible swag.

 

All of these are difficulty level of 1.5 or less, they are all in an urban area, the city of Sioux City, Iowa. Some are in high traffic areas for people and vehicles, one is near a construction zone.

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

You didn't find the caches. You didn't sign the log, because you didn't find a container with a log in it.

 

B.

 

I assume this is just your personal opinion and nothing more.

 

I disagree with you and know I have found the cache's in the spirit of doing so. In fact I did indeed find THREE of the actual cache containers. One of those has a log in it that I DID sign. Another is an intact container, with lid and paper log that has become so wet it is unusable. If I attempted to unfold the log it would have disintegrated. And yet another was missing the threaded lid and log, but the container is still hanging from the wire.

 

So again I followed the spirit of geocaching and count it as a legitimate find and log and therefore disagree with you. You can agree to disagree with me if you wish but I am not changing the log status of these finds.

[+narcissa]

"Possibly misplaced" is a DNF, not a NM.

[+niraD]

"Possibly misplaced" is a DNF, not a NM.

Yeah, more than once I've been convinced that the cache was missing, and that I had found the spot where it used to be hidden. I logged a DNF. Later, when I returned and found the cache hidden somewhere else, I logged a Find.

[+L0ne.R]

since May 18 I have located and found no less than 9 cache's. Of these 9 four of them need maintenance. One because it was possibly misplaced, one because it needs a new log, another because it is missing the lid/cap and the log and another because there is only the cap, no container, log & possible swag.

 

All of these are difficulty level of 1.5 or less, they are all in an urban area, the city of Sioux City, Iowa. Some are in high traffic areas for people and vehicles, one is near a construction zone.

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

Within 20km of my city center (I'm near Toronto). There are 1421 caches. 114 have a red wrench/red cross/NM. Within 20km of Sioux City, OH city centre there are 699 caches, 48 caches with the red cross/wrench/NM.

% of NMs to active caches in my area = 8%

% of NMs to active caches in your area = 6%

About the same but it turned out to be lower then I expected. While on a short geocaching vacation in a new part of the province that I hadn't cached in before, almost 50% of the caches I found were in need of maintenance. Then again I was the first to post the NM for at least half of those. Everyone else just listed the problem in their found log or added a DNF to a long string of DNFs.

[+L0ne.R]

Around here 80% of my 'finds' are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

 

The last cache you found had 3 recent NMs and an NA and a cache owner that is long gone (last logged in in 2011). After the last NA someone threw down a cache to keep it alive.

Abandoned caches and throwdowns are on the rise in some areas. I'm seeing it a lot in the last 2 years. Thankfully in my area our reviewers are quick to clean up these problem caches, if only people will log NMs and NAs. Even after a throwdown. If I say in my NA that the cache currently is a throwdown placed on (date), the cache will almost certainly get a reviewer temporary disable.

[+CFphoto]

Yep, I'm not shy about NM/NA. Which cache are you specifically referring to, btw?

Edited May 21, 2016 by CFphoto

[Pup Patrol]

It's not my personal opinion. A cache, at its most basic, is a container and a log. Finding a lid, or a wire, or some other item, does not constitute finding the cache. It might be regular garbage you found.

 

You admit that you did not find a cache. No container, no log, just some sort of lid that may or may not have been part of the cache.

 

Found it

05/20/2016

 

Only found the lid. Did not find the container or the log or any swag, if is supposed to be any. The lid is from a pharmacy, prescription medicine bottle and is covered in camo tape. The lid was found on the ground under a tree. No container on the ground or in any of the trees in the area. I will file an NM.

 

That's a dnf.

 

Found it

05/19/2016

 

Found bottom half of container with wife and dog. The lid and log are both missing. Will file NM.

 

Again, you found something that may or may not be the cache.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

3. Geocache Contents

 

Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook.

 

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit.

 

B.

[+Team_Vod]

Around here 80% of my 'finds' are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

 

The last cache you found had 3 recent NMs and an NA and a cache owner that is long gone (last logged in in 2011). After the last NA someone threw down a cache to keep it alive.

Abandoned caches and throwdowns are on the rise in some areas. I'm seeing it a lot in the last 2 years. Thankfully in my area our reviewers are quick to clean up these problem caches, if only people will log NMs and NAs. Even after a throwdown. If I say in my NA that the cache currently is a throwdown placed on (date), the cache will almost certainly get a reviewer temporary disable.

 

Which cache do you mean as the last one I found?

Riverfront? Zooo Hooo Bass? Or Deer Runway?

[+Team_Vod]

I think I need to upload a photo onto this forum thread. How do I do so?

[+Team_Vod]

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

[+L0ne.R]

1463796140[/url]' post='5585235']

1463792934[/url]' post='5585223']

1463786906[/url]' post='5585187']

Around here 80% of my 'finds' are either missing entirely or badly in need of maintenance. I don't typically bother to search for, or log, micros so I'm primarily referring to what I consider 'real' caches. I'm also in Iowa, albeit on the other side.

 

The last cache you found had 3 recent NMs and an NA and a cache owner that is long gone (last logged in in 2011). After the last NA someone threw down a cache to keep it alive.

Abandoned caches and throwdowns are on the rise in some areas. I'm seeing it a lot in the last 2 years. Thankfully in my area our reviewers are quick to clean up these problem caches, if only people will log NMs and NAs. Even after a throwdown. If I say in my NA that the cache currently is a throwdown placed on (date), the cache will almost certainly get a reviewer temporary disable.

 

Which cache do you mean as the last one I found?

Riverfront? Zooo Hooo Bass? Or Deer Runway?

I was referring to CFphoto's last find. Confirming that there are lots of poorly maintained caches and that sometimes you may not realize that the cache you found is actually a throwdown on a cache listing that has been abandoned for years. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[+TheAuthorityFigures]

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

In some areas, yes it is typical. My son and I went about 5 out of 5 with DNF's last weekend and posted our NM's and NA's accordingly.

Pretty typical for urban micros in my area too. I keep plenty of extra write in the rain logs to replace the inevitable full or destroyed log. I have received quite a few thank you messages from CO's. I have to admit, the vast majority of the cachers in this neck of the woods are a very nice bunch of folks.

[+noncentric]

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

The 2 logs that Pup Patrol quoted are great examples for the Found It = Didn't Find It thread. You could skim through that thread and see that your 'spirit of finding the cache' does not align with many cachers, and it also doesn't align with the guidelines of this geocaching site. Namely: Sign both the logbook and log your find online to get your smiley.

 

Of course, I'm just repeating what you've already heard. Experienced cachers tried to give you helpful advice in this thread. It's certainly your choice whether to take that advice or not, and it sounds like you've decided that the smiley is more important than actually finding the cache.

[+Team Microdot]

In my experience, urban hides tend to be abandoned and thus end up junk more than non-urban hides.

 

In a way this is ironic, because the urban hides are probably closer to the hider and thus easier to maintain than caches that require a hike, but all too often urban hides belong to 'pop-up' cachers who try the game for a little while, decided it would be cool to own a cache of their own and thus chuck one nearby, and then get bored and leave the game, abandoning their cache(s) in the process.

 

Try extending your search radius to caches that require at least a short hike and see what happens.

 

Incidentally - I've seen numerous logs on empty / lidless containers which I knew from previous experience were not the cache - and thus those logs should have been DNF's.

[+Manville Possum]

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

 

In some areas, yes it is typical. My son and I went about 5 out of 5 with DNF's last weekend and posted our NM's and NA's accordingly.

Pretty typical for urban micros in my area too. I keep plenty of extra write in the rain logs to replace the inevitable full or destroyed log. I have received quite a few thank you messages from CO's. I have to admit, the vast majority of the cachers in this neck of the woods are a very nice bunch of folks.

 

Our recent string of DNF's were not urban micros, but caches where the owners have not logged on in over a year or so. I don't carry repair caches to prop up other peoples listings, but I do help open up the area for the geocaching community by posting my NM's and NA's.

[+CFphoto]

Our recent string of DNF's were not urban micros, but caches where the owners have not logged on in over a year or so. I don't carry repair caches to prop up other peoples listings, but I do help open up the area for the geocaching community by posting my NM's and NA's.

 

I think that's the biggest thing, really. Opening up the map so that active CO's can place caches that will actually have some potential going forward. The general standard I follow is that if a cache is badly NM but the CO hasn't logged in for more than 6 months, it's NA instead. After a NM report I contact the CO directly and if they don't respond or don't actually go and fix the cache within a month it's also NA.

[+dprovan]

You started this thread by asking this question:

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

Later, you made this statement:

 

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

What I've learned is that cache quality is a function of the area's culture. By claiming this a find, you are fostering a culture in which the remains of a container with no log is consider a reasonable cache. Your found log nullifies any NM log by you or others because the find demonstrates you consider this miserable excuse for a cache a reasonable thing to find.

 

It's up to you whether you claim the find. You can be confident the CO doesn't care and probably isn't paying attention, so there's no chance your log will be deleted. But I'm not sure why you'd want to grace that cache with a find.

[+Team_Vod]

You started this thread by asking this question:

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

Later, you made this statement:

 

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

What I've learned is that cache quality is a function of the area's culture. By claiming this a find, you are fostering a culture in which the remains of a container with no log is consider a reasonable cache. Your found log nullifies any NM log by you or others because the find demonstrates you consider this miserable excuse for a cache a reasonable thing to find.

 

It's up to you whether you claim the find. You can be confident the CO doesn't care and probably isn't paying attention, so there's no chance your log will be deleted. But I'm not sure why you'd want to grace that cache with a find.

 

OK then this is what I am going to do: This is to mostly help the CO, even if he or she does not care and to help other geocacher's who want to look for the cache where I only found the lid, but this is to also appease the geocache GOD's here on this forum board and because I have been accused of perpetuating a culture of bad geocaching, though I think being accused of that is a bit of a stretch and over the top.

 

I am going to replace the cache with the same size container the lid fits on. As I said it is a prescription medicine bottle and a very common size. I have plenty of these empty bottle at home. I can find the camo tape just about anywhere and will just use the lid I found on the ground under the tree provided it is still there when I return to retrieve it. I will hang it in a tree according to the GPS coordinates.

 

As for the other cache where I only found the container that is missing the lid, that one will be a little trickier as I do not know where to purchase that type of container but I am going to figure out a way to replace it too. This is again for the reasons listed above.

 

As for the cache with the mostly disintegrated log, and again for the reasons listed above I am going to replace the log.

 

Going froward I am going to replace any logs that are missing from the container as I find the cache's and I am going to fix/replace any cache's that are partially missing. What I will not do is replace cache's that are entirely missing that I do not or cannot find as they may not be truly missing, as it could be I just could not find them at that moment. But if there are several consecutive DNF's in the online log I may reconsider replacing these missing cache's as that is pretty good evidence the cache's are indeed missing.

[+Team Microdot]

You started this thread by asking this question:

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

Later, you made this statement:

 

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

What I've learned is that cache quality is a function of the area's culture. By claiming this a find, you are fostering a culture in which the remains of a container with no log is consider a reasonable cache. Your found log nullifies any NM log by you or others because the find demonstrates you consider this miserable excuse for a cache a reasonable thing to find.

 

It's up to you whether you claim the find. You can be confident the CO doesn't care and probably isn't paying attention, so there's no chance your log will be deleted. But I'm not sure why you'd want to grace that cache with a find.

 

OK then this is what I am going to do: This is to mostly help the CO, even if he or she does not care and to help other geocacher's who want to look for the cache where I only found the lid, but this is to also appease the geocache GOD's here on this forum board and because I have been accused of perpetuating a culture of bad geocaching, though I think being accused of that is a bit of a stretch and over the top.

 

I am going to replace the cache with the same size container the lid fits on. As I said it is a prescription medicine bottle and a very common size. I have plenty of these empty bottle at home. I can find the camo tape just about anywhere and will just use the lid I found on the ground under the tree provided it is still there when I return to retrieve it. I will hang it in a tree according to the GPS coordinates.

 

As for the other cache where I only found the container that is missing the lid, that one will be a little trickier as I do not know where to purchase that type of container but I am going to figure out a way to replace it too. This is again for the reasons listed above.

 

As for the cache with the mostly disintegrated log, and again for the reasons listed above I am going to replace the log.

 

Going froward I am going to replace any logs that are missing from the container as I find the cache's and I am going to fix/replace any cache's that are partially missing. What I will not do is replace cache's that are entirely missing that I do not or cannot find as they may not be truly missing, as it could be I just could not find them at that moment. But if there are several consecutive DNF's in the online log I may reconsider replacing these missing cache's as that is pretty good evidence the cache's are indeed missing.

 

Yay - more throwdowns - just what the game needs

[Pup Patrol]

I am going to replace the cache with the same size container the lid fits on.

 

Congrats. In two months of geocaching, you've learned the "I didn't find a cache but I'll log it as "found" anyway" technique of boosting your "found" numbers, and now the art of the throwdown.

 

Going froward I am going to replace any logs that are missing from the container as I find the cache's and I am going to fix/replace any cache's that are partially missing. What I will not do is replace cache's that are entirely missing that I do not or cannot find as they may not be truly missing, as it could be I just could not find them at that moment. But if there are several consecutive DNF's in the online log I may reconsider replacing these missing cache's as that is pretty good evidence the cache's are indeed missing.

 

And now you're joining the "prop up a crappy cache no matter what" brigade!

 

Why not just post Needs Maintenance logs? Why would you want to prop up crappy, unmaintained caches owned by probably absent/uninteresed owners?

 

If the caches get archived, which it sounds like they should, then the area is now opened up to other people to place caches. Maybe something other than yet another pill bottle. Maybe people who are actually interested in being responsible cache owners?

 

Absent cache owner, no response...post a Needs Archived log.

 

OR just post your dnf's honestly and NM logs if needed and move on. It's really quite simple.

 

Why do you need to be God of Unmaintained Caches That Should be Archived?

 

*shaking my head over all this fuss about something so clear-cut and simple*

 

B.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Pup Patrol

[+Bear and Ragged]

 

OK then this is what I am going to do: This is to mostly help the CO, even if he or she does not care and to help other geocacher's who want to look for the cache where I only found the lid, but this is to also appease the geocache GOD's here on this forum board and because I have been accused of perpetuating a culture of bad geocaching, though I think being accused of that is a bit of a stretch and over the top.

 

I am going to replace the cache with the same size container the lid fits on. As I said it is a prescription medicine bottle and a very common size. I have plenty of these empty bottle at home. I can find the camo tape just about anywhere and will just use the lid I found on the ground under the tree provided it is still there when I return to retrieve it. I will hang it in a tree according to the GPS coordinates.

 

As for the other cache where I only found the container that is missing the lid, that one will be a little trickier as I do not know where to purchase that type of container but I am going to figure out a way to replace it too. This is again for the reasons listed above.

 

As for the cache with the mostly disintegrated log, and again for the reasons listed above I am going to replace the log.

 

Going froward I am going to replace any logs that are missing from the container as I find the cache's and I am going to fix/replace any cache's that are partially missing. What I will not do is replace cache's that are entirely missing that I do not or cannot find as they may not be truly missing, as it could be I just could not find them at that moment. But if there are several consecutive DNF's in the online log I may reconsider replacing these missing cache's as that is pretty good evidence the cache's are indeed missing.

 

Please, don't.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

 

4.11. Throwdowns - How to handle them

 

A throwdown is when a geocacher places a new geocache container when the previous geocache is missing or cannot be found. Throwdowns are placed so the geocacher can log a find on a geocache that they couldn't find and suspect is missing. Geocaches should never be replaced without the permission of the geocache owner as this frequently leads to multiple containers at the location and disputes about whether you found the "real" container and are entitled to log a find.

 

Our policy is that geocache owners are responsible for maintenance, so as soon as they are aware of throwdowns, the physical geocache should be checked and if it is still there, the throwdown geocache should be removed. If this is not done, there will be no way for geocachers to be sure they are finding the correct geocache container. If subsequent find logs indicate multiple or inconsistent containers, it can often be a sign that a maintenance visit by the geocache owner has not taken place. In these cases, it is reasonable for the geocache owner to allow finds of the throwdown to be logged online as found because the finder generally cannot determine whether they found a throwdown instead of the original container. The original geocacher who placed the throwdown does not have a strong claim to log the geocache online as found.

[+Team_Vod]

You started this thread by asking this question:

 

Is this actually typical? I mean to find that many consecutive cache's in need of maintenance?

Later, you made this statement:

 

The container I found that is missing the lid and log last night with my wife and dog is an EXACT same style, type of container I have found at other cache locations. I have EVERY reason to believe it is a legitimate cache and that I HAVE indeed followed the spirit of finding the cache. As such my log entry will stand. If anyone does agree with this then we will just have to agree to disagree.

What I've learned is that cache quality is a function of the area's culture. By claiming this a find, you are fostering a culture in which the remains of a container with no log is consider a reasonable cache. Your found log nullifies any NM log by you or others because the find demonstrates you consider this miserable excuse for a cache a reasonable thing to find.

 

It's up to you whether you claim the find. You can be confident the CO doesn't care and probably isn't paying attention, so there's no chance your log will be deleted. But I'm not sure why you'd want to grace that cache with a find.

 

OK then this is what I am going to do: This is to mostly help the CO, even if he or she does not care and to help other geocacher's who want to look for the cache where I only found the lid, but this is to also appease the geocache GOD's here on this forum board and because I have been accused of perpetuating a culture of bad geocaching, though I think being accused of that is a bit of a stretch and over the top.

 

I am going to replace the cache with the same size container the lid fits on. As I said it is a prescription medicine bottle and a very common size. I have plenty of these empty bottle at home. I can find the camo tape just about anywhere and will just use the lid I found on the ground under the tree provided it is still there when I return to retrieve it. I will hang it in a tree according to the GPS coordinates.

 

As for the other cache where I only found the container that is missing the lid, that one will be a little trickier as I do not know where to purchase that type of container but I am going to figure out a way to replace it too. This is again for the reasons listed above.

 

As for the cache with the mostly disintegrated log, and again for the reasons listed above I am going to replace the log.

 

Going froward I am going to replace any logs that are missing from the container as I find the cache's and I am going to fix/replace any cache's that are partially missing. What I will not do is replace cache's that are entirely missing that I do not or cannot find as they may not be truly missing, as it could be I just could not find them at that moment. But if there are several consecutive DNF's in the online log I may reconsider replacing these missing cache's as that is pretty good evidence the cache's are indeed missing.

 

Yay - more throwdowns - just what the game needs

 

How is it a throw down if I am replacing a cache that is already there but partially missing?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Geocaches should never be replaced without the permission of the geocache owner as this frequently leads to multiple containers at the location and disputes about whether you found the "real" container and are entitled to log a find.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

[Pup Patrol]

How is it a throw down if I am replacing a cache that is already there but partially missing?

 

Because Groundspeak says not to do it.

 

 

Please, don't.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

 

4.11. Throwdowns - How to handle them

 

A throwdown is when a geocacher places a new geocache container when the previous geocache is missing or cannot be found. Throwdowns are placed so the geocacher can log a find on a geocache that they couldn't find and suspect is missing.

 

Geocaches should never be replaced without the permission of the geocache owner as this frequently leads to multiple containers at the location and disputes about whether you found the "real" container and are entitled to log a find.

 

Our policy is that geocache owners are responsible for maintenance, so as soon as they are aware of throwdowns, the physical geocache should be checked and if it is still there, the throwdown geocache should be removed. If this is not done, there will be no way for geocachers to be sure they are finding the correct geocache container. If subsequent find logs indicate multiple or inconsistent containers, it can often be a sign that a maintenance visit by the geocache owner has not taken place. In these cases, it is reasonable for the geocache owner to allow finds of the throwdown to be logged online as found because the finder generally cannot determine whether they found a throwdown instead of the original container. The original geocacher who placed the throwdown does not have a strong claim to log the geocache online as found.

 

B.

[Pup Patrol]

Consider this:

 

you put a throwdown there, using yet another crappy pill bottle.

 

Pat yourself on the back.

 

Eventually that crappy container comes apart or disappears.

 

Back to the same situation as you were.

 

You aren't the cache owner. You can't post "owner maintenance" logs.

 

DNF's pile up, hopefully NM's.

 

After a prolonged illness, the cache finally dies after a Reviewer archives it, because the cache owner is not playing any more.

 

Why not let it die now? Perhaps a responsible cacher has been watching that location, hoping for that crappy cache to be archived so he/she can place a good cache.

 

There's nothing new in all this. It's been going on forever. Constantly discussed in the forum. Ad nauseum.

 

Post DNF's. Log NM's. Log NA's.

 

Don't do throwdowns.

 

 

B.

[+Team_Vod]

Who archives cache's? I have asked this, or something similar more than once and no one has answered? Is it the cache owner? If it is and they are on longer interested or have abandoned the cache what is the point of reporting a NM or an NA?

Edited May 21, 2016 by SUX_VR_40_Rider

[+Bear and Ragged]

Who archives cache's? I have asked this, or something similar more than once and no one has answered? Is it the cache owner? If it is and they are on longer interested or have abandoned the cache what is the point of reporting a NM?

 

A cache can be Archived by the cache owner.

 

Reviewers can Archive caches.

 

Groundspeak Lackies can Archive caches. (Usually on a 'Permission - or lack of- basis, when a landowner complains to them)

[Pup Patrol]

Who archives cache's? I have asked this, or something similar more than once and no one has answered? Is it the cache owner? If it is and they are on longer interested or have abandoned the cache what is the point of reporting a NM?

 

The cache owner can archive their own caches.

 

The local Reviewer can archive caches. (Especially in the case of absentee cache owners.)

 

Posting NM's provides a history for the cache. A Reviewer can see that the cache is in trouble, and that the cache owner is not responding to the NM's or is absent.

 

Groundspeak can archive caches.

 

Help Center → Finding a Geocache → Logging a Geocache

4.2. What log type should I use?

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=534

 

Help Center → Finding a Geocache → Finding a Geocache

3.7. I Found a Geocache that Needs Maintenance

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=551

 

Help Center → Finding a Geocache → Finding a Geocache

3.8. I found a geocache that needs to be archived

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=434

 

B.

[+Team_Vod]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

[Pup Patrol]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

If this is how you react to people trying to teach you something, then that's too bad.

 

No one is browbeating or suppressing you. Everyone has been trying to tell you how to properly proceed in these situations.

 

The forum is not any representation of the geocaching community at all. It's a small percentage of the whole geocaching community.

 

It seems like you want to do whatever you want to do and have been looking for approval and praise. Unfortunately, your proposals of throwdowns is not the appropriate way. As pointed out, it goes against Groundspeak's recommendations.

 

Perhaps you should go to a local event and get to know some experienced cachers in your area.

 

B.

[+Manville Possum]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

Posting here in the forums has nothing to do with having a good time geocaching, and the less time you spend here may be a good idea for you.

[+Team_Vod]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

Posting here in the forums has nothing to do with having a good time geocaching, and the less time you spend here may be a good idea for you.

 

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

[+Team Microdot]

 

Yay - more throwdowns - just what the game needs

 

How is it a throw down if I am replacing a cache that is already there but partially missing?

 

Apologies - I thought you told us that you'd found a random, lidless container with no contents - somewhere close to where you thought the cache should be - or even a piece of wire.

 

I hadn't realised that you'd found complete and identifiable geocaches.

 

You started this thread by telling us that 9 of your 19 finds to date were in need of maintenance - assuming that what you found was, in each case, the geocache.

 

When offered guidance you told us you were going to take it upon yourself to replace caches you don't own.

 

I'm not aware of any caching GODS posting here but there are a lot of people who have been caching for a long time who will try to steer you in the right direction - and that includes posting Needs Maintenance and Needs Archived logs as appropriate in the circumstances you've described so that people don't have to find themselves in the situation you have - a significant number of the caches found being poorly maintained or even complete junk.

 

You don't have to take the advice offered here - but I hope you can see the sense in it.

[+Manville Possum]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

Posting here in the forums has nothing to do with having a good time geocaching, and the less time you spend here may be a good idea for you.

 

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

 

To me geocaching is not about the numbers, but about the adventures and interesting places it takes me. If you deleted a find, it should have changed your find count. If it did'nt, then IDK.

[+Team_Vod]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

Posting here in the forums has nothing to do with having a good time geocaching, and the less time you spend here may be a good idea for you.

 

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

 

To me geocaching is not about the numbers, but about the adventures and interesting places it takes me. If you deleted a find, it should have changed your find count. If it did'nt, then IDK.

 

I deleted the log, that is the same as deleting the find correct?

[+Manville Possum]

Alright, fine! Again you win, geocache GOD's. I will change my freaking log count, you win. Boy talk about feeling brow beaten and beat up. Holy cow, I have never met a group such as this! I am beginning to question whether or not I want to continue geocaching if this is how this hobby is conducted. And I do not buy for one minute this is to help me because I am new. I think some of you just enjoy being over powering and suppressing what someone else is trying to do.

 

What is this a right of passage every new geocacher has to go through to earn their stripes? Is this the hazing part of geocaching the newbies have to experience before being considered cachers?

 

I am a member of the worlds oldest, and largest fraternity and we would never put our new members through anything like this, even if they do make a mistake. We certainly have a lot more tact and respect than people here. If this is the true representation of geocaching I think I am going to give it up entirely. I must say though a lot of you are not doing this hobby any good and a bad example of it with the way you talk to people here.

 

Posting here in the forums has nothing to do with having a good time geocaching, and the less time you spend here may be a good idea for you.

 

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

 

To me geocaching is not about the numbers, but about the adventures and interesting places it takes me. If you deleted a find, it should have changed your find count. If it did'nt, then IDK.

 

I deleted the log, that is the same as deleting the find correct?

Yes.

[+niraD]

Note that your statistics are updated when you log a new Find, or after a certain amount of time has passed. If you change/delete a Find, then that won't trigger an update of your stats, and you'll need to wait a bit for the system to get around to updating them.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

 

The servers aren't too quick on deleted logs/find counts.

Give it 24 hours for them to 'work on it', or until you log your next Found log.

Things will work themselves out then.

[+Team_Vod]

I think you're right. But one other question. How do I change my log count? I deleted the log of the two finds others disagree with but my count has not changed.

 

The servers aren't too quick on deleted logs/find counts.

Give it 24 hours for them to 'work on it', or until you log your next Found log.

Things will work themselves out then.

 

I think I figured it out. At the top where the dark greenish/brownish banner is that shows my user name with the number of finds under the username it still shows the higher number. But on the stat bar in my profile it shows the correct number.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I generally remove any cache with the last two logs DNF from my GPX file. The last logs were five finds and one note. I found the top of a bison tube hanging on a fence. Rechecked the logs. The last five finds were finds on the top of the bison tube. No log to sign. To me that is a DNF. If they'd logged their DNFs, I wouldn't have bothered looking for it! Then I noticed it had two NM logs dating to last October. Now it has three NMs!

[+Team_Vod]

I generally remove any cache with the last two logs DNF from my GPX file. The last logs were five finds and one note. I found the top of a bison tube hanging on a fence. Rechecked the logs. The last five finds were finds on the top of the bison tube. No log to sign. To me that is a DNF. If they'd logged their DNFs, I wouldn't have bothered looking for it! Then I noticed it had two NM logs dating to last October. Now it has three NMs!

 

At which point should a NA be reported rather than an NM? Is this up to the individual cacher? I ask because today I searched for two cache's. I found the first one, signed the log and logged it online. The second was no where to be found. I did not research the online logs prior to trying to find it. There are 7 consecutive DNF's before I posted mine going back to July 2015, mine makes it 8 DNF's. Other cacher's and myself are of the same opinion mother nature displaced/misplaced this cache. The area it is supposed to be is maintained by the city, an entrance to a city park. They have not done much to maintain or repair what needs to be done and as such any cache that was hidden in the structure was likely "washed" away or moved by water or dirt/rocks and mud running through holes and openings in the blocks.

 

I was considering reporting an NM but am now thinking I should report an NA instead. Is this at my discretion as it would be any other geocacher's?

[+Touchstone]

I generally remove any cache with the last two logs DNF from my GPX file. The last logs were five finds and one note. I found the top of a bison tube hanging on a fence. Rechecked the logs. The last five finds were finds on the top of the bison tube. No log to sign. To me that is a DNF. If they'd logged their DNFs, I wouldn't have bothered looking for it! Then I noticed it had two NM logs dating to last October. Now it has three NMs!

 

At which point should a NA be reported rather than an NM? Is this up to the individual cacher? I ask because today I searched for two cache's. I found the first one, signed the log and logged it online. The second was no where to be found. I did not research the online logs prior to trying to find it. There are 7 consecutive DNF's before I posted mine going back to July 2015, mine makes it 8 DNF's. Other cacher's and myself are of the same opinion mother nature displaced/misplaced this cache. The area it is supposed to be is maintained by the city, an entrance to a city park. They have not done much to maintain or repair what needs to be done and as such any cache that was hidden in the structure was likely "washed" away or moved by water or dirt/rocks and mud running through holes and openings in the blocks.

 

I was considering reporting an NM but am now thinking I should report an NA instead. Is this at my discretion as it would be any other geocacher's?

Somewhat a judgement call. If the cache owner appears to be active, and by active I mean, has logged in within the last 1-2 months, then I'd go with an NM log. If the cache owner appears to be gone, I'd probably go straight to the NA and get the local Reviewers attention.