Disturbing trend...

[Andronicus]

With the recent "Perma-Ban" of knowschad, and last year's Perma-Ban of Mr.Yuck and others, I see a disturbing trend. These were some of the members who contributed the best/most to this forum, but yet, what appears to be a personality conflict with Keystone and/or Rock Chalk, has resulted in the loss of their helpful, informative, and positive voice.

 

I see it as vindictive, and quite frankly disgusting. I think the moderation team here needs to do some self-analysis and try to decide what their purpose is. I don't think their purpose is supposed to be to inflate their own egos. But as long as that is how they use (abuse?) their roll, this forum will continue to spiral into uselessness, and continue its descent into obscurity (like most other internet forums have).

[+Touchstone]

I think one can voice an opinion without making it personal. The User in question sometimes had an issue distinguishing where that line was. The self analysis suggestion cuts both ways IMHO.

[+CFphoto]

Do you believe that publicly calling them out for such behavior will be effective? My own experience, both as a moderator elsewhere and as a user here, tells me that you are unlikely to see positive results from public shaming.

[+narcissa]

Maybe I'm speaking from experience but I don't think someone gets banned without multiple, specific warnings.

 

There certainly are some shortcomings in the way the forum is managed and the options we have for dealing with problems that go beyond factual disagreement, but I don't think the moderators are vindictive. It gets heated in certain topics, but in general they let people hash things out as long as it stays on topic and doesn't get personal.

 

We can "block" users, but that doesn't stop those people from seeing our comments or replying to them, and those comments appear when someone else quotes them. For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum , it is difficult to truly avoid targeted personal comments. And then some users are just magically exempt from being blocked at all.

 

Unlike most forums I have seen, the bar for new users here is set very low. Most forums simply don't tolerate 101-level questions in the general discussion areas and would just boot those topics back to the section reserved for learning. In my opinion, this is a pain point for the forum as a whole.

[+cerberus1]

I think one can voice an opinion without making it personal.

- snippity snip -

The self analysis suggestion cuts both ways IMHO.

+1

 

In a couple of threads that get a bit heated, I've seen posts vaporized when someone's just being rude.

One lately in a phone thread was upset yet had good intentions, and really wasn't badly written, but got canned after childlike name-calling at the end of it.

[Cascade Reviewer]

All of the moderators here work together, and make most major decisions together. If someone has a personality conflict with Keystone or Rock Chalk, they probably have one with me and multiple other moderators/lackeys. I hope that we don't all have giant egos, I know that others on my moderating team are some of the most ego-less people that I know.

 

From what I've seen, here and in other places, forums descend into obscurity for two main reasons - people like to use other venues like facebook, and because forums can become difficult or hostile to be in. We can't do much about sites like facebook, but we can all work together to make this forum a more hospitable place. If that means banning or suspending some people, then so be it. I would like it better if we just all got along.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

<...> For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum <...>

 

Wait, you have a 'Dedicated Fan Club' on the forums?

 

What!!?? How does that work? Do they have a website? Dues?

 

Do they hold meetings? Do they invite you to speak?

 

For a fee, will someone take a cacher on a geo-tour of your finds, with commentary?

 

That's so cool! Do they have T-shirts with your picture on them?

[+narcissa]

<...> For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum <...>

 

Wait, you have a 'Dedicated Fan Club' on the forums?

 

What!!?? How does that work? Do they have a website? Dues?

 

Do they hold meetings? Do they invite you to speak?

 

For a fee, will someone take a cacher on a geo-tour of your finds, with commentary?

 

That's so cool! Do they have T-shirts with your picture on them?

 

I should set up a booth at the next Mega.

 

[+TeamRabbitRun]

<...> For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum <...>

 

Wait, you have a 'Dedicated Fan Club' on the forums?

 

What!!?? How does that work? Do they have a website? Dues?

 

Do they hold meetings? Do they invite you to speak?

 

For a fee, will someone take a cacher on a geo-tour of your finds, with commentary?

 

That's so cool! Do they have T-shirts with your picture on them?

 

I should set up a booth at the next Mega.

 

 

My friend Ron went to London once and took the "Jack the Ripper" tour - after dark, some barfly walked the group through Whitechapel, visiting the site of each of the five murders in turn!

 

This could work the same way.

 

"Narcissa hit a rough patch here with two DNF's in this park. Next, I'll show you an actual TravelBug that's rumored to have been Discovered by her, although there's no actual evidence to support the claim, since it doesn't appear in her logs!"

[+narcissa]

<...> For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum <...>

 

Wait, you have a 'Dedicated Fan Club' on the forums?

 

What!!?? How does that work? Do they have a website? Dues?

 

Do they hold meetings? Do they invite you to speak?

 

For a fee, will someone take a cacher on a geo-tour of your finds, with commentary?

 

That's so cool! Do they have T-shirts with your picture on them?

 

I should set up a booth at the next Mega.

 

 

My friend Ron went to London once and took the "Jack the Ripper" tour - after dark, some barfly walked the group through Whitechapel, visiting the site of each of the five murders in turn!

 

This could work the same way.

 

"Narcissa hit a rough patch here with two DNF's in this park. Next, I'll show you an actual TravelBug that's rumored to have been Discovered by her, although there's no actual evidence to support the claim, since it doesn't appear in her logs!"

 

This tree beside the sidewalk was the site of her first find. Sadly, the cache is now archived and due to proximity issues, we'll like never see another geocache at this spot.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

<...> For those of us with dedicated fan clubs on the forum <...>

 

Wait, you have a 'Dedicated Fan Club' on the forums?

 

What!!?? How does that work? Do they have a website? Dues?

 

Do they hold meetings? Do they invite you to speak?

 

For a fee, will someone take a cacher on a geo-tour of your finds, with commentary?

 

That's so cool! Do they have T-shirts with your picture on them?

 

I should set up a booth at the next Mega.

 

 

My friend Ron went to London once and took the "Jack the Ripper" tour - after dark, some barfly walked the group through Whitechapel, visiting the site of each of the five murders in turn!

 

This could work the same way.

 

"Narcissa hit a rough patch here with two DNF's in this park. Next, I'll show you an actual TravelBug that's rumored to have been Discovered by her, although there's no actual evidence to support the claim, since it doesn't appear in her logs!"

 

This tree beside the sidewalk was the site of her first find. Sadly, the cache is now archived and due to proximity issues, we'll like never see another geocache at this spot.

 

A tragic loss for the whole Geocaching community, despite efforts by the club to have it designated a 'World Heritage Site'."

[+Manville Possum]

Is this one of those threads where the OP calls out the site moderators here then archives all of their caches and relists them on Mr. Yuck's geocache listing service?

 

I just don't see this working out well for the OP.

[Andronicus]

Is this one of those threads where the OP calls out the site moderators here then archives all of their caches and relists them on Mr. Yuck's geocache listing service?

 

I just don't see this working out well for the OP.

No, it's not one of those threads. While I have archived and listed one of my caches on an alternate site (which Mr.Yuck happens to administer currently), I have no plans to move all my caches. I do like getting find logs...

 

This post is simply to bring up the issue that several helpful, informative, and generally positive contributors to this forum have been perma-banned for seemingly innocuous criticism of reviewers or moderators. I don't see why anyone would think reasonable criticism must be silenced.

[+K13]

Is this one of those threads where the OP calls out the site moderators here then archives all of their caches and relists them on Mr. Yuck's geocache listing service?

 

I just don't see this working out well for the OP.

 

So, someone ACTUALLY did the improbable? They left (or got booted out) Groundspeak and started their own Geocaching website!!!! Which one are you talking about?

[Pup Patrol]

Is this one of those threads where the OP calls out the site moderators here then archives all of their caches and relists them on Mr. Yuck's geocache listing service?

 

I just don't see this working out well for the OP.

 

So, someone ACTUALLY did the improbable? They left (or got booted out) Groundspeak and started their own Geocaching website!!!! Which one are you talking about?

 

Not a new site at all.

 

http://www.opencaching.us/

 

This site went live on August 18, 2010.

 

B.

[+Manville Possum]

This post is simply to bring up the issue that several helpful, informative, and generally positive contributors to this forum have been perma-banned for seemingly innocuous criticism of reviewers or moderators. I don't see why anyone would think reasonable criticism must be silenced.

 

It's good to see that you are not banned yet for speaking out against the site moderators in their forum, but don't be surprised if it happens.

 

Posting a rant here about the moderators is not a helpful topic.

[Andronicus]

This post is simply to bring up the issue that several helpful, informative, and generally positive contributors to this forum have been perma-banned for seemingly innocuous criticism of reviewers or moderators. I don't see why anyone would think reasonable criticism must be silenced.

...

Posting a rant here about the moderators is not a helpful topic.

Hey, I never said I am a helpful contributor. I stopped helping last year when Mr.Yuck got banned...

[+Manville Possum]

This post is simply to bring up the issue that several helpful, informative, and generally positive contributors to this forum have been perma-banned for seemingly innocuous criticism of reviewers or moderators. I don't see why anyone would think reasonable criticism must be silenced.

...

Posting a rant here about the moderators is not a helpful topic.

Hey, I never said I am a helpful contributor. I stopped helping last year when Mr.Yuck got banned...

 

Nice conversing with you. I'm not a "Stick it to the Frog" fan.

[+TriciaG]

Having been a moderator on another forum (now defunct), I'm sure they weren't banned for a few posts criticizing moderators. There would have been a fairly long "rap sheet" on them - a history of repeated violations - such that perhaps the last straw wasn't very heavy, but it WAS the last straw.

 

And on the forum I helped moderate, any public criticism of mods' actions wasn't allowed, so this thread would have been zapped within 5 minutes of posting.

[Andronicus]

Nice conversing with you. I'm not a "Stick it to the Frog" fan.

Good point. I don't mean to "stick it it the Frog" as you put it. I quite appearciate what geocaching.com has done for us geocachers. I am stricktly talking about the forums.

[Andronicus]

...

 

From what I've seen, here and in other places, forums descend into obscurity for two main reasons - people like to use other venues like facebook, and because forums can become difficult or hostile to be in. We can't do much about sites like facebook, but we can all work together to make this forum a more hospitable place. If that means banning or suspending some people, then so be it. I would like it better if we just all got along.

 

I agree with this! Infact, that is exactly what knowschad posted about that got him banned. Several of the reviewers had harshly criticized a new(ish) guy (and he did deserve criticism). knowschad was trying to lobby for a more friendly forum from what he saw as an overly harsh response.

 

Meanwhile there are a lot of regular posters who regularly make the forum unfriendly, but seem to be allowed to continue ad nauseum.

 

Edit for spelling...

Edited May 26, 2016 by Andronicus

[+The A-Team]

Having been a moderator on another forum (now defunct), I'm sure they weren't banned for a few posts criticizing moderators. There would have been a fairly long "rap sheet" on them - a history of repeated violations - such that perhaps the last straw wasn't very heavy, but it WAS the last straw.

It's my understanding that this is how it works here too. I personally have been given an enforced break from the forums, yet I'm still able to post here because it was just the one time. A single incident (usually) isn't enough to get you banned. You need to have repeated incidents to get banned. It could be that the users in question did make more posts than we're aware of, but that those posts were deleted due to their inflammatory content.

 

I admit I had been getting pretty harsh and deserved the break, and since then I've tried to scale back on my criticisms of Groundspeak. That being said, many of you have probably seen that I'm not afraid to voice my concerns. The fact that I'm able to do so and still be able to post here tells me criticism is allowed by Groundspeak as long as it doesn't get personal or over-the-top.

[+The A-Team]

Several of the reviewers has harshly criticized a new(ish) guy (and he did deserve criticism). knowschad was trying to lobby for a more friendly forum from what he saw as an overly harsh response.

Unfortunately, it appears that knowschad's posts in that discussion have been deleted, so we can't even refer to that as an example of what's considered "over the line". The last visible post by him is on May 14, and none of the visible posts by him in the last few weeks could be even remotely considered inflammatory or even criticizing. It's unfortunate that the mods felt the evidence needed to be hidden. Some transparency would go a long way.

[+Manville Possum]

Nice conversing with you. I'm not a "Stick it to the Frog" fan.

Good point. I don't mean to "stick it it the Frog" as you put it. I quite appearciate what geocaching.com has done for us geocachers. I am stricktly talking about the forums.

 

I like finds on my geocaches too, and "Stick it to the Frog" is what I call the OCNA site. If your cache can't hop here, it will fly there.

[+Michaelcycle]

Several of the reviewers has harshly criticized a new(ish) guy (and he did deserve criticism). knowschad was trying to lobby for a more friendly forum from what he saw as an overly harsh response.

Unfortunately, it appears that knowschad's posts in that discussion have been deleted, so we can't even refer to that as an example of what's considered "over the line". The last visible post by him is on May 14, and none of the visible posts by him in the last few weeks could be even remotely considered inflammatory or even criticizing. It's unfortunate that the mods felt the evidence needed to be hidden. Some transparency would go a long way.

 

Indeed! Barring obscenity or personal attacks against a family member I see no reason to delete these posts. The idea that the OP of the thread in question could impugn "community volunteers" and go unpunished and yet a long time member that questioned a perceived "piling on" by moderators and "community volunteers" could get banned (regardless of past history) is inconsistent at best. And please don't tell me that the long time member should "know better" His observations were valid. If moderators and "community volunteers" cannot be legitimately questioned in this forum then where can they be questioned (in public?)

 

Who watches the watchers??

[+CFphoto]

That being said, many of you have probably seen that I'm not afraid to voice my concerns. The fact that I'm able to do so and still be able to post here tells me criticism is allowed by Groundspeak as long as it doesn't get personal or over-the-top.

 

That's not necessarily been my experience. I won't post specific details, but I had a factual post deleted because it clashed with a moderator's opinion. I was told that it was deleted because it was disrespectful and therefore not allowed, even though I didn't attack anyone or name any names. Just a factual account of reality.

 

I stopped posting in the thread and won't name the moderator publicly.

[Rock Chalk]

I would not normally action a thread in which I'm specifically mentioned. But I'm making an exception here since the original post does violate forum guidelines. If the OP wishes to start a thread to discuss forum moderation in general, that's totally fine. So long as it's courteous, which was not the case here.

 

This seems an opportune moment to mention that whether you're a new user or a veteran, please read the Forum Guidelines. They are meant to facilitate open, interactive, and friendly dialogue. If you do not agree with the guidelines, then you probably should not participate here.

 

To be clear, as much as I value and encourage transparency, we are not going to discuss details of individual forum member's situations.

 

Thanks all.