+KrillKat Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I am curious how others handle this issue. When you "write note" and sign a challenge cache, you usually do so because you are not sure if you qualify. Once you do qualify, do you log it on the date you qualify, on the date you go through your data and discover you qualify or on the date you signed it? I tend to log it on the date I discover I qualify. I am curious what others do. Quote Link to comment
+frinklabs Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I am curious how others handle this issue. When you "write note" and sign a challenge cache, you usually do so because you are not sure if you qualify. Once you do qualify, do you log it on the date you qualify, on the date you go through your data and discover you qualify or on the date you signed it? I tend to log it on the date I discover I qualify. I am curious what others do. To avoid creating anomalies in the space-time continuum, I don't attempt to sign the log until after I have completed the challenge requirements. This has come up before: Which date can you use to log a challenge cache Signing challenge caches before qualification - and note logs Challenge Caches - pre-signing of logs In those threads, I link to a suggested feature that would include differentiation of the challenge-completed event from the log-signed one. I believe the feature should be implemented for the sake of the temporal integrity of the universe. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 To avoid creating anomalies in the space-time continuum, I don't attempt to sign the log until after I have completed the challenge requirements.Yep. Doc Brown made it very clear that we must avoid chain reactions that might unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum. Worst case, such events could destroy the entire universe. Best case, the destruction would be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy. But seriously, challenge caches are listed as mystery/puzzle caches, and I wait until after I've completed the challenge requirements before I add the cache to my "solved unfound puzzles" bookmark list, so I don't even see the listing on my device until after I've completed the challenge requirements. Quote Link to comment
+on4bam Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Same here, qualify first, log later. I'm not going to spend time finding a challenge cache that I might or might not qualify for later. Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 For challenges I've "found" before qualifying I have written a note at the time of finding, then changed that log to a "Found it" when I qualified, leaving the oringinal date on the log (i.e. in the past) and adding a comment about the date I qualified. Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 If I pre-sign a challenge before I qualify, once I actually qualify, I find whatever hole in my stats I need to fill and use that date. In all reality, on the qualification date. I don't change log types after they've been saved unless it was a logging accident. Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Qualify first, log later. A challenge would only appear in my PQ if I already knew I qualified. Quote Link to comment
+CanadianRockies Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I've got a bookmarks list with 42 challenge caches that I have pre-signed but haven't yet qualified for. Most of them are interesting challenges that I encountered while traveling to locations where I'm unlikely to return anytime soon. Many of them are challenges that probably will take me years to complete and might be archived by the time I finally qualify for them. When I pre-sign these challenge caches, I log a "Write Note" online to indicate the date that I found the physical cache. When I complete these pre-signed challenges, I log an online "Found it" for that date (and mention in that log the date when I pre-signed the physical log). This messes up my cumulative cache-to-cache distance statistic, but I don't care about the accuracy of that measurement. Quote Link to comment
+ecanderson Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 A bit in reverse: If I find that I qualify, and the listing information required is extensive, I may post a "Write Note" with all of the qualification information, and log the "Found" after I've been able to put the physical cache on an itinerary and actually signed the log. The "found" date I use is the date the cache is actually found and log signed. Quote Link to comment
Rock Chalk Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 For challenges I've "found" before qualifying I have written a note at the time of finding, then changed that log to a "Found it" when I qualified, leaving the oringinal date on the log (i.e. in the past) and adding a comment about the date I qualified. +1 Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I, too, don't bother to sign until I qualify, so I don't have this problem, but you are allowed to claim the find on a challenge caches when you've signed the log and have met the requirement, so it makes sense to me to date it the date both are accomplished, i.e., the latter of the two. Your third suggestion, when you actually determine that you qualified, is immaterial for the same reasons the date you get around to logging a find on a traditional is immaterial, only the date you found the traditional matters. Quote Link to comment
+DanOCan Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I'm in the "I don't even bother looking for a challenge cache or signing its log if I haven't qualified" camp. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 For challenges I've "found" before qualifying I have written a note at the time of finding, then changed that log to a "Found it" when I qualified, leaving the oringinal date on the log (i.e. in the past) and adding a comment about the date I qualified. +1 So you guys are the ones to blame for mucking up the space/time continuum! Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) For challenges I've "found" before qualifying I have written a note at the time of finding, then changed that log to a "Found it" when I qualified, leaving the oringinal date on the log (i.e. in the past) and adding a comment about the date I qualified. +1 So you guys are the ones to blame for mucking up the space/time continuum! I got an award for designing Norway, and they've given me Africa on the next Earth, but I'm doing it with fjords as I think it gives a nice baroque feel to the place, so fiddling with the space/time continuum holds no fears for me Edited August 29, 2016 by MartyBartfast Quote Link to comment
+qtbluemoon Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 If you can't log 'found it' until you actually meet the challenge, I don't see how you can justify using the signature date. Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 If you can't log 'found it' until you actually meet the challenge, I don't see how you can justify using the signature date. +10 Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 If you can't log 'found it' until you actually meet the challenge, I don't see how you can justify using the signature date.Some people like posting FIND logs with the date they actually FOUND the cache container. Perhaps they like keeping some "miles traveled while geocaching" stat accurate. Perhaps they just think FIND logs should refer to actually FINDING the cache container. It doesn't seem that hard to justify to me. It isn't the solution I use, but it doesn't seem all that unreasonable, given the existence of challenge caches where you can sign the physical log before you qualify for the smiley. Quote Link to comment
+redsox_mark Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I've got a bookmarks list with 42 challenge caches that I have pre-signed but haven't yet qualified for. Most of them are interesting challenges that I encountered while traveling to locations where I'm unlikely to return anytime soon. Many of them are challenges that probably will take me years to complete and might be archived by the time I finally qualify for them. When I pre-sign these challenge caches, I log a "Write Note" online to indicate the date that I found the physical cache. When I complete these pre-signed challenges, I log an online "Found it" for that date (and mention in that log the date when I pre-signed the physical log). This messes up my cumulative cache-to-cache distance statistic, but I don't care about the accuracy of that measurement. This is what I do too. But there is no "right" way; using the date you physically found the cache works too. You have to choose between: 1. Having the "Found it" log date show a date when you had not qualified, or 2. Mess up cumulative cache-to-cache distance statistic 3. Avoid the issue by never signing a log unless you've already qualified. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 This is another of those things that seems simple to me. Two things are required to complete a challenge cache. Signing the log and completing the cache's stated requirements. Whichever i do last is the date i've completed the cache. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date represent A] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Quote Link to comment
+MKFmly Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date represent A] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Unfortunately, there are many among us that need one rule for all cases, exceptions are anathema. You just have to be able to look at it from the other direction and appreciate certain caches may not have "additional requirements". In my world the online "found it" log would align with B] which works for all cases. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date representA] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Unfortunately, there are many among us that need one rule for all cases, exceptions are anathema. You just have to be able to look at it from the other direction and appreciate certain caches may not have "additional requirements". In my world the online "found it" log would align with B] which works for all cases.Following this logic, since EarthCaches require you to send your answers to the cache owner, the date of your log for an EarthCache should be the date you sent your answers to the cache owner. Ditto for virtual caches and webcam caches, since they too have logging requirements beyond whatever you need to do on-site. That doesn't make sense to me. I'll continue to log such caches with the date of my visit to the cache location, even if I don't technically complete all the requirements until later, when I get home and sort through my field notes. Quote Link to comment
+CanadianRockies Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date represent A] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Even your A case isn't especially literal, since there are many caches that don't have a physical log sheet that must be found and signed: EarthCaches, Virtuals, Webcams, various events/parties/celebrations, Lab caches, and Locationless caches. Groundspeak's definition of a "find" doesn't match a dictionary's definition very well. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date represent A] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Even your A case isn't especially literal, since there are many caches that don't have a physical log sheet that must be found and signed: EarthCaches, Virtuals, Webcams, various events/parties/celebrations, Lab caches, and Locationless caches. Groundspeak's definition of a "find" doesn't match a dictionary's definition very well. Not sure what you mean by the bolded. EarthCaches, Virtuals, Webcams, various events/parties/celebrations, Lab caches, and Locationless caches don't have to be found and signed, they just have to have the logging requirements completed (sending in answers, posting the webcam photo, etc). It is an interesting parallel though, Challenge Caches and Earthcaches (or Virtual or whatever) - most of us date CC's as of the date it's both found and qualified; those same most of us likely also date Earthcaches as of the date visited, not the date answers were sent in (if they don't already coincide). In which case, I think many of have a different definition of the "Found It" online log, depending on the cache type in question. But, as it doesn't seem that GS enforces a universal "log date" requirement, it doesn't really matter. IMO, as long as the log history makes sense given the cache type (which is how I read them; eg, CC find history means different than a Trad history). Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Following this logic, since EarthCaches require you to send your answers to the cache owner, the date of your log for an EarthCache should be the date you sent your answers to the cache owner. Ditto for virtual caches and webcam caches, since they too have logging requirements beyond whatever you need to do on-site. Finding caches to satisfy a challenge is an act of geocaching, so the logic suggests the date of the last geocaching act be the date the challenge cache can be considered found. Sending in answers to an EarthCache is just an administrative act, so it has no more to do with the date of the found log than writing the log itself. Although this is the way I look at it, I don't claim that's the only way to look at it, I'm just explaining how following "this logic" can lead somewhere other than where you say it does. Quote Link to comment
+CanadianRockies Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 The question is, does the online "Found It" log date represent A] The physical finding of the logsheet and signature B] The completion of all requirements in order to post a "Found It" log online Literally, it would be A. Conceptually, it would be B. Most people abide by B. But there's no explicit rule stating which is proper, only interpretation in light of special cases such as Challenge Caches, Earthcaches, and Virtuals (arguably Webcams too) Even your A case isn't especially literal, since there are many caches that don't have a physical log sheet that must be found and signed: EarthCaches, Virtuals, Webcams, various events/parties/celebrations, Lab caches, and Locationless caches. Groundspeak's definition of a "find" doesn't match a dictionary's definition very well. Not sure what you mean by the bolded. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Oh heh, before you (CR) fix the reply, I just read and understand now what you meant by the bolded I read it as "caches that don't have a physical log sheet (pause) that must be found and signed", rather than "caches that don't have (pause) a physical log sheet that must be found and signed." lol #oops Quote Link to comment
+LightHouseSeekers Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 My preference is to 'write note' for the date we signed logbook leaving that note forever. Then upon completion of requirements submit an online 'found it' log as of completion date. Will also reference in that physical date of found. ie: note made 1/1/2013, found 1/1/2016 (with comment of found on 1/1/2013). Quote Link to comment
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