Favorite Points (FP) - Recovering From Archived Caches

[+Adventure.AS]

Recently I found a cache for which I wanted to award a FP, but I didn't have any left in my account. I went into the "Manage Favorites" function and retrieved the FPs from caches which I had previously awarded a FP, but were now Archived. This was done so that I could award them to active geocaches where the number of FP might influence finders to seek these particular caches, (Obviously, a FP on an Archived cache would not provide this same information to a seeker.)

 

I would like to suggest to TPTB that when a geocache is Archived the Premium Member's account that awarded the point be automatically given the FPs back, but that the record of FPs awarded to the cache remain on the Archived cache as a permanent record of its popularity.

 

What are your thoughts?

Edited May 6, 2015 by Nonsuch30

[+cerberus1]

I wouldn't like that at all.

We awarded many archived caches because they were our favorites.

- Sorry, but we don't see too much that compares with 'em today, and our favorites where maybe one in forty.

And your "remain on record" I don't care for eiither.

Edited May 6, 2015 by cerberus1

[+SwineFlew]

I feel the fp system is to tell people that havent found it that its a good cache to find. Having fp on.archived caches doesn't help anyone.

[+rosebud55112]

Keep the favorite points on the archived caches. They were favorites and deserved it. If you are favoriting (?) over 1 cache in ten, you either are lucky to live in an area with great caches, or have set your bar at a significantly different level than I have.

 

Look at caches you liked. Who else favorited those caches? What other caches did they like? That may give you info on which ones you may want to search for. Why would you want to remove your ability to do that?

[jholly]

I feel the fp system is to tell people that havent found it that its a good cache to find. Having fp on.archived caches doesn't help anyone.

Sure it does, tells them they missed a good cache.

[+narcissa]

Ew, why? If you want more points, cache more.

[+GeoLog81]

It would make sense maybe if there would be no FPs for finds on archived caches, so those both would be synchronized...

[+narcissa]

I put favourite points on caches for my own personal records. I don't care if that's "useful" to anybody else and I don't want those points returned to me.

[+dprovan]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

[+wmpastor]

Why rewrite history by reallocating favorite points? Two problems (at least). First, with longer term members, they'd get a boatload of FPs returned when the policy is put into effect. Going forward, they could give a FP to every cache they find. FPs then become worthless. Second, why "penalize" the CO of the archived cache? Suppose they archived because they moved. Why strip points away from their achievement of creating a great cache? (I realize one variation is not to take away the FPs.) Third, FPs create a historical record for the CO, the finder and the community. Why tamper with that?

 

The biggest issue is point 1, the cheapening of the flood of FPs. A cache with a FP is in someone's top 10% of finds. That's noteworthy. Under the proposed system, a cache with a FP is maybe in the top 30% of finds - less meaningful.

[+J Grouchy]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

[+Adventure.AS]

Why rewrite history by reallocating favorite points? Two problems (at least). First, with longer term members, they'd get a boatload of FPs returned when the policy is put into effect. Going forward, they could give a FP to every cache they find. FPs then become worthless. Second, why "penalize" the CO of the archived cache? Suppose they archived because they moved. Why strip points away from their achievement of creating a great cache? (I realize one variation is not to take away the FPs.) Third, FPs create a historical record for the CO, the finder and the community. Why tamper with that?

 

The biggest issue is point 1, the cheapening of the flood of FPs. A cache with a FP is in someone's top 10% of finds. That's noteworthy. Under the proposed system, a cache with a FP is maybe in the top 30% of finds - less meaningful.

 

I don't feel that reclaiming FPs from Archived caches is re-writing history as the history is in the on-line logs. In my case, I was able to retrieve 6 favorite points or about 5%. I don't see that as a 'flood'. Why would you feel it is better to keep a FP on an archived cache that a new geocacher can't find and log as opposed to providing relevant information on available caches to keep things fresh and relevant to the presently available caches?

 

To address your concerns 2 and 3, I don't wish to "penalize" the archived cache owner - that is why I suggested that the record of the FPs be maintained on the archived cache for posterity and let the retrieved FPs continue to act as they were intended - as an indication of a cache worth seeking. I was under the impression that the idea behind FP was to reward an active cache in a way that would make it possible for someone to search for caches with at least some idea, in advance, of the quality of the hide, based on the opinions of some PMs.

 

(As a sidebar I could never understand why a Virtual cache is eligible for awarding a FP. The CO of a virtual did not need to do anything creative in the placement - just be first to publish.

[+Adventure.AS]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

 

I don't thing that the FP is about me, but rather as a tool/guide for someone else to evaluate a cache that is available and that they may want to find. I keep a private bookmark list of the caches that are meaningful to me so I don't need a FP list in order to be able to go back and revisit those caches online.

[+Adventure.AS]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

[+AustinMN]

My thinking about scavenging FP's on archived caches is mixed.

 

1) If an archived cache has 25 FP's then nobody anywhere is ever going to miss mine if I remove it.

2) If I was one of only one or two to favorite a cache, I leave it there. I find a grey area in between the 1-2 and the 25, where if it was a really nice cache, I leave it in place.

3) My top ten caches (true favorites instead of a simple top 10%) will always have one of my favorite points.

 

I have a high bar for the caches I find. Unless I'm desparate, I couldn't be bothered with parking lot finds, micros in the woods, or power trails. I bet I hike an average of 20 minutes for each find. The result is I'm typically only finding the best caches to begin with, so even with archive FP recovery I frequently find myself not able to give a favorite to (my opinion here) a truly deserving cache.

 

Sure, I could get more FP's by chasing down stop sign hides, but that's not the reason I go caching. Nobody is going to get worked up if you scavenge FP's.

 

Austin

[+narcissa]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

[+Adventure.AS]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

 

Why not create a private (or public if you prefer) Favorite List? That can be all about you.

 

I still believe that the FP system was created, as result of suggestions on the forum, to be an aid to seekers - especially new members who may evaluate the number of FPs a cache has before spending their time on searching for it. Based on this premise, why tie up that useful information in archived caches?

Edited May 6, 2015 by Nonsuch30

[+J Grouchy]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

 

Why not create a private (or public if you prefer) Favorite List? That can be all about you.

 

I still believe that the FP system was created, as result of suggestions on the forum, to be an aid to seekers - especially new members who may evaluate the number of FPs a cache has before spending their time on searching for it. Based on this premise, why tie up that useful information in archived caches?

 

I know I'm not the only one that will browse the find list of friends and other cachers, occasionally clicking on caches they've found out of curiosity or to look up info that may have been mentioned elsewhere. Occasionally I will do so because I see a particular cache has a lot of FPs...which they might not have anymore if folks retracted their FPs just because it was archived. I believe they are valuable not just as a personal reminder of my finds but also as a tool for finding out about caches that have come and gone and made an impression on finders.

 

Do what you want...I just feel that FPs aren't only for the 'living'.

[+narcissa]

Why not create a private (or public if you prefer) Favorite List? That can be all about you.

 

I still believe that the FP system was created, as result of suggestions on the forum, to be an aid to seekers - especially new members who may evaluate the number of FPs a cache has before spending their time on searching for it. Based on this premise, why tie up that useful information in archived caches?

 

Here's the text of the email I received when they implemented this points system:

 

As a Premium Member of Geocaching.com, you now have the ability to rate your favorite geocaches of all time.

 

Premium Members earn Favorite Points at a rate of 1 for every 10 geocaches found, and past finds contribute to the point total. By awarding a point to a favorite cache, you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area and reward cache owners for placing exceptional caches.

 

The Favorite Points earned by a cache are tallied and displayed on each cache page and in the search results for everyone’s benefit. Premium Members have the additional perk of sorting search results by the most Favorited caches.

 

Note that it specifically says "of all time." This is the spirit in which I awarded, and will continue to award points.

 

The points are not actually useful to discerning geocachers, because everyone's tastes are different. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

[+Adventure.AS]

Here's the text of the email I received when they implemented this points system:

 

As a Premium Member of Geocaching.com, you now have the ability to rate your favorite geocaches of all time.

 

Premium Members earn Favorite Points at a rate of 1 for every 10 geocaches found, and past finds contribute to the point total. By awarding a point to a favorite cache, you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area and reward cache owners for placing exceptional caches.

 

The Favorite Points earned by a cache are tallied and displayed on each cache page and in the search results for everyone's benefit. Premium Members have the additional perk of sorting search results by the most Favorited caches.

 

Note that it specifically says "of all time." This is the spirit in which I awarded, and will continue to award points.

 

The points are not actually useful to discerning geocachers, because everyone's tastes are different. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

Note that it also says "you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area". Unfortunately this information isn't presented on archived caches in a PQ or a regular member search of their area as archived caches aren't included. To bad that your thoughtful consideration and awarding of a FP to a quality cache, if it is archived, is not available to anyone put you and is therefore of moot value for the 'everyone' mentioned in your post above.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Nonsuch30

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

 

Why not create a private (or public if you prefer) Favorite List? That can be all about you.

 

I still believe that the FP system was created, as result of suggestions on the forum, to be an aid to seekers - especially new members who may evaluate the number of FPs a cache has before spending their time on searching for it. Based on this premise, why tie up that useful information in archived caches?

 

Favoritism is purely subjective. How can in not be about her?

 

When the FP system was created I went through my list of finds and awarded favorites to my *favorite* finds. If I would have excluded archived caches I would have ended up with roughly 40% of may available favorite points awarded. What should I do with the remaining 60%? It just made more sense to me to award to caches that were my favorite finds then to award them to caches that I didn't feel were deserving of a favorite point. I'm not tieing up any of my FPs with archived caches. I still have about 50% of the FPs I have available that I haven't awarded to any cache.

 

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The points are not actually useful to discerning geocachers, because everyone's tastes are different. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

If that statement was a cache I'd give it a favorite point.

[+dprovan]

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

Favorite points are designed so that every premium member can decide which 1 out of every 10 caches they find deserve the honor of "favorite". Your problem isn't that some of those caches are now archived. Your problem is that you want to tag more than 1 out of 10.

[+SwineFlew]

I feel the fp system is to tell people that havent found it that its a good cache to find. Having fp on.archived caches doesn't help anyone.

Sure it does, tells them they missed a good cache.

I totally disagree with you. Thats very backward thinking. When I am looking for good caches to find, they are available to to be found and not archived. I use the FP to find good caches in area that I am visiting. I dont use FP to see which caches I missed finding. Past is past.

[knowschad]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

 

I don't thing that the FP is about me, but rather as a tool/guide for someone else to evaluate a cache that is available and that they may want to find. I keep a private bookmark list of the caches that are meaningful to me so I don't need a FP list in order to be able to go back and revisit those caches online.

 

I see your point, and it is something that perhaps Groundspeak would consider, but I don't really see any changes coming in that area.

 

Now, you are giving 1 favorite point for every 10 caches you find. Unless you are in a spectacular area with a whole lot of wonderful geocaches, perhaps you are giving your favorite points out too freely. Is one in ten of your finds really that remarkable?

[+SwineFlew]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

What?!?!?!?!?! When a book is out of print, its still available to be read and to be enjoyed. When a cache is archived its out of play and you cant enjoy it because you cant find it. So the FP is really for people to find caches that they can enjoy finding. Its a tool to help you find good caches that are available to be found.

[+SwineFlew]

I travel alot and I use FP as my guide to find good caches. If I agree with it, I give those caches a FP as well. I think thats why GS got the FP system in place for. I found very good caches all over USA and Hong Kong and without the FP system, I wouldnt very found that many of them. FP on archived caches is like a tombstone saying it was a good cache, but it doesnt do anything more than that. Dead is dead. Move on and put FP on caches to help geocacher find good/better/best caches thats available to be found. Please remove FP on archived caches. The horse is dead, stop beating on it.

[+Misha]

Sounds fine to me, I have done that on some but left them on others that still had value to me.

[+Harry Dolphin]

My favorite points go to my favorite caches. If some are now archived, that does not mean that they don't still qualify as still being among my favorite caches!

If OP is running out of favorite points, perhaps s/he is being too liberal in giving them out? I still have 150 that I have not assigned.

Just because a cache is archived does not mean that it is not among my favorite caches.

[+narcissa]

Here's the text of the email I received when they implemented this points system:

 

As a Premium Member of Geocaching.com, you now have the ability to rate your favorite geocaches of all time.

 

Premium Members earn Favorite Points at a rate of 1 for every 10 geocaches found, and past finds contribute to the point total. By awarding a point to a favorite cache, you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area and reward cache owners for placing exceptional caches.

 

The Favorite Points earned by a cache are tallied and displayed on each cache page and in the search results for everyone's benefit. Premium Members have the additional perk of sorting search results by the most Favorited caches.

 

Note that it specifically says "of all time." This is the spirit in which I awarded, and will continue to award points.

 

The points are not actually useful to discerning geocachers, because everyone's tastes are different. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

Note that it also says "you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area". Unfortunately this information isn't presented on archived caches in a PQ or a regular member search of their area as archived caches aren't included. To bad that your thoughtful consideration and awarding of a FP to a quality cache, if it is archived, is not available to anyone put you and is therefore of moot value for the 'everyone' mentioned in your post above.

 

Archived caches are still worth calling attention to. Their caches pages, logs, and galleries are still intact. Those cache owners are still worth rewarding for exceptional caches, even if those caches are now archived.

 

With a favourite point for every ten finds, I see no need to claw back points that were thoughtfully assigned to now-archived caches. I never run out of points to give to deserving caches as I find them.

[+Adventure.AS]

My favorite points go to my favorite caches. If some are now archived, that does not mean that they don't still qualify as still being among my favorite caches!

If OP is running out of favorite points, perhaps s/he is being too liberal in giving them out? I still have 150 that I have not assigned.

Just because a cache is archived does not mean that it is not among my favorite caches.

 

Every PM has the choice to add FP at there discretion. We also have ability to retract our FP - at any time. This is a function created by TPTB and they even provide the tool to manage your FPs. Whether you do so is your business.

 

My point is that it is too bad that there isn't a mechanism, on only archived caches, to reflect the total number of FP that were present at the time of archival.

 

I don't think that hording FPs or leaving them on Archived caches helps newcomers or visitors make informed decisions about the Favorite caches in a particular area.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Nonsuch30

[+narcissa]

My favorite points go to my favorite caches. If some are now archived, that does not mean that they don't still qualify as still being among my favorite caches!

If OP is running out of favorite points, perhaps s/he is being too liberal in giving them out? I still have 150 that I have not assigned.

Just because a cache is archived does not mean that it is not among my favorite caches.

 

Every PM has the choice to add FP at there discretion. We also have ability to retract our FP - at any time. This is a function created by TPTB and they even provide the tool to manage your FPs. Whether you do so is your business.

 

My point is that it is too bad that there isn't a mechanism, on only archived caches, to reflect the total number of FP that were present at the time of archival.

 

I don't think that hording FPs or leaving them on Archived caches helps newcomers or visitors make informed decisions about the Favorite caches in a particular area.

 

Points aren't rare. You get one for every ten finds. The number of points available among all cachers will grow for as long as the system exists. They are not some precious, finite commodity. If you're running out of points to give, you're probably giving them out too indiscriminately to be of any help anyway.

[+Adventure.AS]

Here's the text of the email I received when they implemented this points system:

 

As a Premium Member of Geocaching.com, you now have the ability to rate your favorite geocaches of all time.

 

Premium Members earn Favorite Points at a rate of 1 for every 10 geocaches found, and past finds contribute to the point total. By awarding a point to a favorite cache, you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area and reward cache owners for placing exceptional caches.

 

The Favorite Points earned by a cache are tallied and displayed on each cache page and in the search results for everyone's benefit. Premium Members have the additional perk of sorting search results by the most Favorited caches.

 

Note that it specifically says "of all time." This is the spirit in which I awarded, and will continue to award points.

 

The points are not actually useful to discerning geocachers, because everyone's tastes are different. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

Note that it also says "you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area". Unfortunately this information isn't presented on archived caches in a PQ or a regular member search of their area as archived caches aren't included. To bad that your thoughtful consideration and awarding of a FP to a quality cache, if it is archived, is not available to anyone put you and is therefore of moot value for the 'everyone' mentioned in your post above.

 

Archived caches are still worth calling attention to. Their caches pages, logs, and galleries are still intact. Those cache owners are still worth rewarding for exceptional caches, even if those caches are now archived.

 

With a favourite point for every ten finds, I see no need to claw back points that were thoughtfully assigned to now-archived caches. I never run out of points to give to deserving caches as I find them.

 

I agree that Archived caches with lots of FPs still have value ... too bad no one can search for them.

[+J Grouchy]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

What?!?!?!?!?! When a book is out of print, its still available to be read and to be enjoyed. When a cache is archived its out of play and you cant enjoy it because you cant find it. So the FP is really for people to find caches that they can enjoy finding. Its a tool to help you find good caches that are available to be found.

 

And when a cache is archived, can you not still visit GZ, view photos of the cache and read through the online logs? Sometimes you can even still find the cache if it was abandoned.

[+Adventure.AS]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

What?!?!?!?!?! When a book is out of print, its still available to be read and to be enjoyed. When a cache is archived its out of play and you cant enjoy it because you cant find it. So the FP is really for people to find caches that they can enjoy finding. Its a tool to help you find good caches that are available to be found.

 

And when a cache is archived, can you not still visit GZ, view photos of the cache and read through the online logs? Sometimes you can even still find the cache if it was abandoned.

 

How do you do an on-line search for an archived cache that you haven't previously found? And, the cache container - especially one with numerous FPs - should have been removed by the CO when it was archived (as I know everyone commenting on the forum does this.)

[anpefi]

My views on this:

 

1. FP is a kind of public bookmark list where you can save a max of the 10% of the caches you've found. It's a special bookmark list because it shows in the cache listing the number of people (points) who, subjectively, add a cache to their FP list. My criteria to add a cache to FP could be quite different to other's criteria (in fact i'm not giving FP to some of the most Favorited caches in my area because of different factor that make me think they are far from being favorites).

 

2. You can manually remove a cache from your FP list. Is this making sense? I think so. As its current design it represent a list of your 10% preferred caches. Time, experience and new caches can make that you decide that some of them don't deserve to be in that 10% anymore and other yes (but who is taking care about to revise his/her FP list). Nobody can complain for removing their caches from FP.

 

3. It's true that FP given to a cache is correlated to its "awesomeness" and help, but there are much more factors that can make a cache attractive to new seekers. True cool caches have tens of FP, so having 2 or 3 more or less is not really relevant.

 

So, given that, I strongly disagree with the proposal of the thread opener about to make automatic the revert of FP to theirs donors in those caches being archived.

[knowschad]

Favorite points exist for at least 4 reasons, and not in any particular order:

 

1) A kind of public bookmark list

2) Feedback to the cache owner

3) Feedback to other potential finders

4) Feedback to other potential hiders

 

All of those reasons are equally valid.

 

There is no way that 1 out of every 10 caches that I've found would have any one of those reasons to be favorited by me.

[+rosebud55112]

The real problem is that GS is being too stingy with giving us the FPs. Why should we be limited to 10% of our finds. If they would just award a FP with every find, then nobody would need to remove points from archived caches.

[+J Grouchy]

Don't forget that there are a number of challenges that use favorite points as part of the requirement. Example: http://coord.info/GC4ZGVF

 

Besides...you liked that cache for a reason, no? Does the fact that it's archived change what you liked about it? When your favorite book is no longer published/out of print, does that mean you don't like it anymore?

What?!?!?!?!?! When a book is out of print, its still available to be read and to be enjoyed. When a cache is archived its out of play and you cant enjoy it because you cant find it. So the FP is really for people to find caches that they can enjoy finding. Its a tool to help you find good caches that are available to be found.

 

And when a cache is archived, can you not still visit GZ, view photos of the cache and read through the online logs? Sometimes you can even still find the cache if it was abandoned.

 

How do you do an on-line search for an archived cache that you haven't previously found? And, the cache container - especially one with numerous FPs - should have been removed by the CO when it was archived (as I know everyone commenting on the forum does this.)

 

Hmmm...must not have read my post very closely.

As for finding archived caches...I believe I already discussed that.

 

I know I'm not the only one that will browse the find list of friends and other cachers, occasionally clicking on caches they've found out of curiosity or to look up info that may have been mentioned elsewhere. Occasionally I will do so because I see a particular cache has a lot of FPs...which they might not have anymore if folks retracted their FPs just because it was archived. I believe they are valuable not just as a personal reminder of my finds but also as a tool for finding out about caches that have come and gone and made an impression on finders.

 

Do what you want...I just feel that FPs aren't only for the 'living'.

 

As I understand it, there are other ways via other websites like Project-GC as well...though I haven't looked into it.

[+L0ne.R]

My thinking about scavenging FP's on archived caches is mixed.

 

1) If an archived cache has 25 FP's then nobody anywhere is ever going to miss mine if I remove it.

2) If I was one of only one or two to favorite a cache, I leave it there. I find a grey area in between the 1-2 and the 25, where if it was a really nice cache, I leave it in place.

3) My top ten caches (true favorites instead of a simple top 10%) will always have one of my favorite points.

 

I have a high bar for the caches I find. Unless I'm desparate, I couldn't be bothered with parking lot finds, micros in the woods, or power trails. I bet I hike an average of 20 minutes for each find. The result is I'm typically only finding the best caches to begin with, so even with archive FP recovery I frequently find myself not able to give a favorite to (my opinion here) a truly deserving cache.

 

Sure, I could get more FP's by chasing down stop sign hides, but that's not the reason I go caching. Nobody is going to get worked up if you scavenge FP's.

 

Austin

 

That's how I roll.

 

Heres' the official definition by Groundspeak:

Since the

point of Favorites is to recommend great caching experiences to others

, it doesn't really make sense to spend a Favorite point on an event which has already taken place. For this reason Event Geocaches do not accept the awarding of Favorite Points. Be sure to tell the event host how much you enjoyed the event in your geocache log.

 

 

 

Can I get the Favorite Point returned if a geocache is archived?

 

When a geocache is archived the Favorite Point remains with the geocache. Removing a Favorite Point from an archived geocache and awarding it to a new one is up to you. Visit your Favorites List and look for geocaches with the red strikethrough indicating that they are archived, and then remove the geocache from your Favorites List to free up the Favorite Point. There is nothing wrong with leaving a Favorite Point on an archived geocache if you prefer it.

 

It makes sense to use your FPs to recommend a cache to other like-minded cachers. If you want to keep a list of caches you really liked, make a bookmark list.

Any cache with more than 10 favourite points already tells a cacher and the world that they placed a good cache.

 

I have created a public bookmark list "Archived Favorite" and add any archived cache that I removed an FP from, so there's still an acknowledgement that when I found it I considered it worthy of an FP.

 

But I understand why people like to keep the FPs they earned on their cache hides. It's a badge of honour, it acknowledges a job well done. For that reason I like the OP's idea. The archive cache has a History of Favorites Earned but the people who gave the FPs get to use them to recommend some more good active caches.

I completely agree that if we run out of FPs that we shouldn't go hunt for caches we wouldn't enjoy. For many of us that would be anything placed only to up a smiley count. It gives credence to the numbers game.

 

I'd like to add another suggestion:

 

When we look at a FP count it's broken down into total FPs and % FPs. I'd like to see how many FPs were rewarded in the last 6 months. Now that the FP sytem is 4+ years old, I'm noticing that some caches get their FPs when the cache is new and in good condition. After 3 years and no maintenance from the cache owner, the cache may have fallen into disrepair and is not what it use to be (e.g. a cache covered in fur so it looks like a sleeping raccoon in a hollow stump, 3 years later looks like a tattered mess of bits of synthetic fibers). It gets, for instance, 10 FPs in the first year, 5 FPs in the second year, no FPs in the 3rd year. I set up a gpx for highly favoured caches and it shows up on the list. I expect something cool for a 15FP cache. I end up disappointed to find an old container with bits of fur stuck on it. And no, the current logs don't say anything about the condition of the cache. Most just say "Fun" or "Out caching with GeoBuddy, we found 50 high fav caches for Joe's High FP Challenge."

Edited May 7, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+L0ne.R]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

 

Well that's how you want to use them. C'est la vie. There are lots who agree and that's just how it goes.

However, IMO a bookmark would work just as well to keep a personal list of caches we really liked.

The way I interpret Groundspeak's take on FPs is it's a community tool and works best when recommending active caches.

Edited May 7, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+L0ne.R]

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

A bit off topic, but... ain't that the truth.

 

It's very true for micros. I thought FPs were going to help me separate the wheat from the chaff in the abundance of carpy micros. They sort of do, especially initially in the first couple of years of the FP system. Now it's just same-old-same-old. A hollow bolt, a bison or centrifuge tube stuffed into a dollar store plastic animal, or a ball, or a branch/log, a soggy sheet of paper behind a lost dog sign.

 

Larger caches have the problem I outlined in my post above....some got most of their FPs when they were shiny new (e.g. anything covered with something that was glued on) but haven't received an FP in the last year because the weathered container isn't so impressive anymore. I'd like to see the number of FPs by year, in particular the number in the last 6 months.

[+dprovan]

How do you do an on-line search for an archived cache that you haven't previously found?

One of the most common times when I look at archived caches is when I'm looking over the list of a CO's other hides, and that's exactly when I'd like to see how often the CO gets favorited whether the cache is archived or not.

[+narcissa]

How do you do an on-line search for an archived cache that you haven't previously found?

One of the most common times when I look at archived caches is when I'm looking over the list of a CO's other hides, and that's exactly when I'd like to see how often the CO gets favorited whether the cache is archived or not.

 

+1

[+L0ne.R]

If you get favorite points back when a cache you assigned them to is archived, then, logically, favorite points should be deducted from your pool when the caches you found in order to earn the favorite points are archived.

 

So I'd say just be happy you can cancel your assignments manually. I wouldn't do that because it seems something like changing your mind about someone you used to hold in high regard just because they died. But then, I only assign favorite points to 5% of the caches I've found, so I have plenty of favorite points to give out.

 

I don't think that FPs are about me - but are used by fellow seekers to assess those caches that they may be interested in finding. In my area there are thousands of caches from which to choose and time is limited, so I like to use all of the tools that are available - favorite points, on-line logs, satellite views and photographs etc. to determine if I might want to find a particular cache. Why tie up a valuable guide, like FPs in archived caches that aren't available to new geocachers?

 

My favourite points are about me. They are about my ten years of geocaching and the caches that were most memorable to me. I don't care if my favourite points help other people decide what to select. This feature would undo all the careful selections I made when I was given those points and spent time thinking about which caches deserved them, archived or otherwise.

 

Why not create a private (or public if you prefer) Favorite List? That can be all about you.

 

I still believe that the FP system was created, as result of suggestions on the forum, to be an aid to seekers - especially new members who may evaluate the number of FPs a cache has before spending their time on searching for it. Based on this premise, why tie up that useful information in archived caches?

 

Favoritism is purely subjective. How can in not be about her?

 

When the FP system was created I went through my list of finds and awarded favorites to my *favorite* finds. If I would have excluded archived caches I would have ended up with roughly 40% of may available favorite points awarded. What should I do with the remaining 60%? It just made more sense to me to award to caches that were my favorite finds then to award them to caches that I didn't feel were deserving of a favorite point. I'm not tieing up any of my FPs with archived caches. I still have about 50% of the FPs I have available that I haven't awarded to any cache.

 

 

I like to reward good caches. They don't have to be outstanding, just a decent experience. A well maintained, swag size, quality container, in a nice location is something I want to recommend to other cachers, because they are rare these days. Folks don't give a well maintained, authentic Lock & Lock™, in the hollow of a tree in a lovely forest an FP. Yet many of us are looking for exactly that type of experience.

[+L0ne.R]

How do you do an on-line search for an archived cache that you haven't previously found?

One of the most common times when I look at archived caches is when I'm looking over the list of a CO's other hides, and that's exactly when I'd like to see how often the CO gets favorited whether the cache is archived or not.

 

+1

 

Yes, I see the point and agree. I too look at a COs hides and how many FPs they get. That's why the OP's suggestion is a good one. The archived caches get to keep a record of the number of FPs at the time of archival, but the people who rewarded them get back the point to reward to an active cache.

Edited May 7, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+narcissa]

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. Just ask Nickelback.

 

A bit off topic, but... ain't that the truth.

 

It's very true for micros. I thought FPs were going to help me separate the wheat from the chaff in the abundance of carpy micros. They sort of do, especially initially in the first couple of years of the FP system. Now it's just same-old-same-old. A hollow bolt, a bison or centrifuge tube stuffed into a dollar store plastic animal, or a ball, or a branch/log, a soggy sheet of paper behind a lost dog sign.

 

Larger caches have the problem I outlined in my post above....some got most of their FPs when they were shiny new (e.g. anything covered with something that was glued on) but haven't received an FP in the last year because the weathered container isn't so impressive anymore. I'd like to see the number of FPs by year, in particular the number in the last 6 months.

 

Points don't factor into my caching decisions at all.

[+L0ne.R]

My favorite points go to my favorite caches. If some are now archived, that does not mean that they don't still qualify as still being among my favorite caches!

If OP is running out of favorite points, perhaps s/he is being too liberal in giving them out? I still have 150 that I have not assigned.

Just because a cache is archived does not mean that it is not among my favorite caches.

 

Every PM has the choice to add FP at there discretion. We also have ability to retract our FP - at any time. This is a function created by TPTB and they even provide the tool to manage your FPs. Whether you do so is your business.

 

My point is that it is too bad that there isn't a mechanism, on only archived caches, to reflect the total number of FP that were present at the time of archival.

 

I don't think that hording FPs or leaving them on Archived caches helps newcomers or visitors make informed decisions about the Favorite caches in a particular area.

 

Points aren't rare. You get one for every ten finds. The number of points available among all cachers will grow for as long as the system exists. They are not some precious, finite commodity. If you're running out of points to give, you're probably giving them out too indiscriminately to be of any help anyway.

 

They start to become rare if you search for mostly caches with favourite points. I like to search for caches with 3 or more FPs. I then tend to give those caches on my 3+ list a fav point if they don't already have double digit favs. And, as I noted above, I like to recommend good well-maintained caches in nice locations because people rarely FP them, but they are the type of cache I would highly recommend to other cachers. Using my system, I tend to run out of FPs once a year.

[+J Grouchy]

I tend to run out of FPs once a year.

 

I never have...I think I still have 35 available to use. I still feel like I've been pretty generous with them, too.

[+narcissa]

I tend to run out of FPs once a year.

 

I never have...I think I still have 35 available to use. I still feel like I've been pretty generous with them, too.

 

I usually have 10 or so to use and that is plenty. I don't really care if my points are helpful to anybody else. They probably aren't, because I love complex multi-caches where half the tags are missing and you have to go out three times and get attacked by a bear on the way back from the final.