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waterproofing to prevent wet logbooks


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I see this time and time again when I go geocaching, and that is a perfectly sealed logbook that shouldn't be wet, but is.

 

I've only placed 3 caches, but so far I've had pretty good luck with a little trick. This isn't possible in all locations and for all caches, but most of you can modify your containers to prevent this super common water damage.

 

simple solution: drill a tiny hole in the downwind/underside of your logbook container.

 

The wordy science behind it: A given volume of outside air can hold X amount of water depending on the temperature. The greater the temp, the more water it can hold. For example (with arbitrary numbers), say a cubic meter of air can hold 10 grams of water, but actually holds 8 grams. This air has a relative humidity of 80 percent. When the temperature drops, the amount of liquid it can hold goes down, meaning the relative humidity goes up. Again, instead of being able to hold 10 grams, it now can only hold, say, 7 grams. Relative humidity is at 100%, so some water condenses out of this air. This is essentially how clouds are formed. /End science.

 

Now, in a perfectly sealed container, the water that condenses out of the air has nowhere to go but to get soaked up into the logbook. A cacher opens the Ziploc/Tupperware container, lets in fresh air at X relative humidity, and the cycle repeats. The logbook keeps absorbing excess water when the temperature drops, no matter how waterproof your container may be.

 

WHEN holes are drilled into the container (so that they don't catch rain or flood water) the air's water holding capacity might decrease, but the logbook can breathe, therefore allowing water vapor to "escape." You don't need a big hole, just a tiny one 1/8th of an inch has worked for me. When you DO try this, make sure the hole isn't blocked by the logbook in anyway. Air has to be able to circulate. Also, if possible, elevate your caches a bit so bugs have a harder time crawling in, or if it rains no puddle or stream will enter the cache and ruin your fine engineering.

 

Alternatively, for Tupperware or ammo cans, you could always just save your bags of silica (the tiny bags in shoes that say "DO NOT EAT" on them). These absorb water pretty good too, or you could dump an inch of rice into the base of the can. Also works.

 

Anyway, hope this helps. Happy caching

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Alternatively, for Tupperware or ammo cans, you could always just save your bags of silica (the tiny bags in shoes that say "DO NOT EAT" on them). These absorb water pretty good too, or you could dump an inch of rice into the base of the can. Also works.

 

Anyone who thinks that silica gel will keep a cache dry is sadly delusional. Try reading the Federal specs on Method II packaging. As long as your pill bottle is hermetically sealed it will keep the pill bottle dry for a year. Once the seal is broken, the silica gel will absorb water. And not a large quantity. When sun light or heat hits the absorbent, it will emit the water back into the atmosphere, and make everything wet again.

Try researching the subject before posting such unrealities.

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No, drilling holes isn't gonna keep containers free of water. :rolleyes:

- Might make a dandy home for ants though. :laughing:

 

If folks would properly replace the lids, and COs would use a decent container with water-resistant paper (Rite In Rain, Nat'l Geogh., etc) we'd have fewer problems.

 

We haven't seen a single Ziploc or Tupperware container that didn't have issues.

We started out with Tupperware, and can say first-hand it just doesn't hold up well.

- And would never consider Ziploc as a container meant to stay outdoors.

 

We have Seasons similar to you and haven't had a wet log yet in a quality, sealed container.

 

Odd that I've never seen the military us silica packets in ammo cans.

Maybe they know something...

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Those little silica gel packages work GREAT.... as long as it is in a factory-sealed, nitrogen-purged container.

Other than that, there is only one other good use... in a document safe or a gun vault, and only IF the silica container (not a packet) is regularly recharged (purged of moisture).

 

Don't be mislead by what "they" say. Silica gel is great, in controlled conditions. A cache placement is hardly "controlled".

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Other than that, there is only one other good use... in a document safe or a gun vault, and only IF the silica container (not a packet) is regularly recharged (purged of moisture).
Gardeners also use them for seed saving. You need to store seeds in a cool dry container, and large silica gel packets can help with that.

 

But yeah, you need to recharge the silica gel after opening the seed container once or twice.

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Interesting idea. Always love new ideas to keep logs dry. I'm assuming that the containers you are referring to would otherwise be air-tight, such as a "burped" Rubbermaid container. Not sure the idea is sound, but it is innovative, at least.

 

I doubt an 1/8" hole would be likely to let most ants enter, and probably small enough to keep water out of an otherwise sealed container by air pressure alone.

 

But assuming it works, your idea is only considering one aspect of wet logs... condensation. It doesn't take into consideration such things as people caching in the rain or snow, people not closing the container properly, and other things. But I think there is some merit to your idea, under certain circumstances.

 

 

As for silica gel packets (please forgive my somewhat satrical answser)... why not try a dry sponge instead? It too will soak up moisture until saturated. Same concept. The gel is simply a sponge. Not sure about your other idea, but this one doesn't fly.

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Not long after we started caching we found an ammo can in the woods. Inside the can the log was in a match holder. Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

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I presoak my log books. I don't think most geocachers would know what to do with a dry log. :laughing:

 

Not long after we started caching we found an ammo can in the woods. Inside the can the log was in a match holder. Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

I do this too! Matchstick containers make crappy caches, but they work well as a log holder. At first I was keeping the pencils from minigolf, but I found you can get a bunch of them cheap online.

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I presoak my log books. I don't think most geocachers would know what to do with a dry log. :laughing:

 

Not long after we started caching we found an ammo can in the woods. Inside the can the log was in a match holder. Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

I do this too! Matchstick containers make crappy caches, but they work well as a log holder. At first I was keeping the pencils from minigolf, but I found you can get a bunch of them cheap online.

Hm, I'm not sure why you consider matchstick containers to be crappy for caches. For a micro, they're pretty roomy - they can hold a logsheet and a golf pencil, even some tiny trade items. Plus, they have a rubber gasket. I use them for several caches and am very happy with them.

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I presoak my log books. I don't think most geocachers would know what to do with a dry log. :laughing:

 

Not long after we started caching we found an ammo can in the woods. Inside the can the log was in a match holder. Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

I do this too! Matchstick containers make crappy caches, but they work well as a log holder. At first I was keeping the pencils from minigolf, but I found you can get a bunch of them cheap online.

Hm, I'm not sure why you consider matchstick containers to be crappy for caches. For a micro, they're pretty roomy - they can hold a logsheet and a golf pencil, even some tiny trade items. Plus, they have a rubber gasket. I use them for several caches and am very happy with them.

 

Yeah, match holders ( the hard plastic ones, usually orange ) make very good micro containers......about the only one that might be better is a baby soda.

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Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

In my area this is a regular occurrence. Cache owners hide leaky small/regular/large caches and inside put their log in a pill bottle or film canister (rarely a matchstick container - that costs too much). What's the point of hiding a swag size cache if the contents will end up wet and moldy. Just hide the micro. But wait, then they'd have to hide a watertight matchstick container and that's too expensive ($1 - $1.50).

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I should have said "disappointing" rather than "crappy". Yes, they last awhile and keep water out, but they don't hold much. I have a 6 year old and he liks a container that can hold swag or TBs. Matchstick containers get published as "small" sometimes and they don't hold much more than a micro.

Edited by Zepp914
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Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

In my area this is a regular occurrence. Cache owners hide leaky small/regular/large caches and inside put their log in a pill bottle or film canister (rarely a matchstick container - that costs too much). What's the point of hiding a swag size cache if the contents will end up wet and moldy. Just hide the micro. But wait, then they'd have to hide a watertight matchstick container and that's too expensive ($1 - $1.50).

 

And here I thought that this was a nice way to have a large cache to hold the swag everyone is constantly complaining about while still keeping the logbook nice and dry when when the larger cache gets a little damp (as most larger caches eventually).

 

What's the point in trying to do anything to improve a cache at all, when somehow, someone will find a way to cut you down for it? Sheesh.

Edited by narcissa
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Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

In my area this is a regular occurrence. Cache owners hide leaky small/regular/large caches and inside put their log in a pill bottle or film canister (rarely a matchstick container - that costs too much). What's the point of hiding a swag size cache if the contents will end up wet and moldy. Just hide the micro. But wait, then they'd have to hide a watertight matchstick container and that's too expensive ($1 - $1.50).

 

And here I thought that this was a nice way to have a large cache to hold the swag everyone is constantly complaining about while still keeping the logbook nice and dry when when the larger cache gets a little damp (as most larger caches eventually).

 

What's the point in trying to do anything to improve a cache at all, when somehow, someone will find a way to cut you down for it? Sheesh.

 

A log in a waterproof micro, that is in a waterproof larger container is great. A cache in a waterproof micro, used because the CO knows the larger container is leaky and s/he needs to protect the log from water damage, is bound to become a gross mess and frankly pointless as a larger cache - hide a watertight larger container. You won't need to protect the logsheet. Do maintenance and check the cache one or two times a year.

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Every cache I have put out since that is larger than a micro I put the log in a waterproof container ( marked LOG- DO NOT TAKE ) which is then placed in the cache container along with trade items ....I can't recall having had a problem since. In the future I will use Baby Soda Bottles for this purpose as they hold nice size logs.

Also I put a couple of really short pencils ( or none at all ) in my caches.....regular size punch holes in the freezer bags I put trade items in and a finder will always put them inside the bag.

Follow the above and wet logs in regulars will be history.....micro's are another story.

 

In my area this is a regular occurrence. Cache owners hide leaky small/regular/large caches and inside put their log in a pill bottle or film canister (rarely a matchstick container - that costs too much). What's the point of hiding a swag size cache if the contents will end up wet and moldy. Just hide the micro. But wait, then they'd have to hide a watertight matchstick container and that's too expensive ($1 - $1.50).

 

And here I thought that this was a nice way to have a large cache to hold the swag everyone is constantly complaining about while still keeping the logbook nice and dry when when the larger cache gets a little damp (as most larger caches eventually).

 

What's the point in trying to do anything to improve a cache at all, when somehow, someone will find a way to cut you down for it? Sheesh.

 

A log in a waterproof micro, that is in a waterproof larger container is great. A cache in a waterproof micro, used because the CO knows the larger container is leaky and s/he needs to protect the log from water damage, is bound to become a gross mess and frankly pointless as a larger cache - hide a watertight larger container. You won't need to protect the logsheet. Do maintenance and check the cache one or two times a year.

 

Or just skip the part where your honest attempt to hide a nice large cache is torn to shreds, and hide a nano instead.

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I should have said "disappointing" rather than "crappy". Yes, they last awhile and keep water out, but they don't hold much. I have a 6 year old and he liks a container that can hold swag or TBs. Matchstick containers get published as "small" sometimes and they don't hold much more than a micro.

Ok, that makes sense. I'm not big on micros, but some of my hide locations just don't support anything bigger. I'm happy to use the matchstick holders because I used to use really tiny things like pet id tubes and bison tubes, and graduated up to the matchstick containers, so they seem huge in comparison! :lol:

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Georgia is a humid state, especially in the summer. This cache is just a huge storage bin sitting square and level on the ground hidden out in the middle of a thicket. It has no hermetic seal, yet all the things inside remain relatively dry. Because it doesn't receive a lot of sunlight in the humid months, it stays about the same temperature inside at all times. There is enough of a gap in the top lid that the humidity inside the container remains about the same as that outside the container constantly. There's an ancient VCR in there that probably still works, if anyone would care to lug it back to civilization. Yes, items inside feel a little humid, but not soggy or wet... just about the same humidity as outside. But these are ideal conditions: perfectly level ground, where the top stays on through rain and snow. The environment is well-shaded. There are no extremes in temperature from one side of the container to the other. So maybe under ideal conditions, your theory is true. I doubt most containers hide in ideal conditions, though.

 

I suspect a lot of sogginess is due to enthusiastic cachers quickly-but-inexpertly rushing to close lids before heading off to the next cache. Then it rains. Soggy log.

Edited by LaughterOnWater
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Tyvek and a sharpie.

 

 

Nice... if you have a Sharpie with you. Big "if" though. Often enough when a cacher doesn't even have a regular pen or pencil with them.

 

All I've used for years is a Sharpie.....my wife uses a space pen.....if those don't work I add a new log ( always carry a few in my pocket)....funny how folks go caching with no writing implements, spare logs, TOTT, etc. yet if they went fishing would not forget pole, bait, and tackle. ( or would they ? )

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Tyvek and a sharpie.

 

 

Nice... if you have a Sharpie with you. Big "if" though. Often enough when a cacher doesn't even have a regular pen or pencil with them.

 

All I've used for years is a Sharpie.....my wife uses a space pen.....if those don't work I add a new log ( always carry a few in my pocket)....funny how folks go caching with no writing implements, spare logs, TOTT, etc. yet if they went fishing would not forget pole, bait, and tackle. ( or would they ? )

 

I like writing with sharpies but I feel guilty when the ink bleeds through the paper to the other side and obscures or obliterates the trail name(s) behind mine.

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I like writing with sharpies but I feel guilty when the ink bleeds through the paper to the other side and obscures or obliterates the trail name(s) behind mine.
I carry a Sharpie, but I generally use it to sign logs only when neither of my other pens (a gel pen and a Fisher Space Pen) works. Edited by niraD
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No, drilling holes isn't gonna keep containers free of water. :rolleyes:

- Might make a dandy home for ants though. :laughing:

 

If folks would properly replace the lids, and COs would use a decent container with water-resistant paper (Rite In Rain, Nat'l Geogh., etc) we'd have fewer problems.

 

We haven't seen a single Ziploc or Tupperware container that didn't have issues.

We started out with Tupperware, and can say first-hand it just doesn't hold up well.

- And would never consider Ziploc as a container meant to stay outdoors.

 

We have Seasons similar to you and haven't had a wet log yet in a quality, sealed container.

 

Odd that I've never seen the military us silica packets in ammo cans.

Maybe they know something...

 

Aaaand then please explain how my cache with a hole in it has no ants or moisture, and why plenty of perfectly nice sealed containers have wet logs? Anyway, go youtube some videos on relative humidity I say with rolling eyes. Jesus

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Alternatively, for Tupperware or ammo cans, you could always just save your bags of silica (the tiny bags in shoes that say "DO NOT EAT" on them). These absorb water pretty good too, or you could dump an inch of rice into the base of the can. Also works.

 

Anyone who thinks that silica gel will keep a cache dry is sadly delusional. Try reading the Federal specs on Method II packaging. As long as your pill bottle is hermetically sealed it will keep the pill bottle dry for a year. Once the seal is broken, the silica gel will absorb water. And not a large quantity. When sun light or heat hits the absorbent, it will emit the water back into the atmosphere, and make everything wet again.

Try researching the subject before posting such unrealities.

 

Uhhh I make steam and water for a living. I went to school for this. Just wanted to add my two cents. I've had great success with my strategies, whereas I've seen plenty of nicely sealed soaked logs. Anyway please research the subject before posting such douchy responses

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Alternatively, for Tupperware or ammo cans, you could always just save your bags of silica (the tiny bags in shoes that say "DO NOT EAT" on them). These absorb water pretty good too, or you could dump an inch of rice into the base of the can. Also works.

 

Anyone who thinks that silica gel will keep a cache dry is sadly delusional. Try reading the Federal specs on Method II packaging. As long as your pill bottle is hermetically sealed it will keep the pill bottle dry for a year. Once the seal is broken, the silica gel will absorb water. And not a large quantity. When sun light or heat hits the absorbent, it will emit the water back into the atmosphere, and make everything wet again.

Try researching the subject before posting such unrealities.

 

Uhhh I make steam and water for a living. I went to school for this. Just wanted to add my two cents. I've had great success with my strategies, whereas I've seen plenty of nicely sealed soaked logs. Anyway please research the subject before posting such douchy responses

 

"Douchy"?? Wow! That sounds insulting!

Thank you, but I have been working in the business for thirty years, and have a good understanding of Method II packaging. Obviously, you do not. I am qualified as Federal Packaging agent.

I suggest you do more research on the use of silica gel.

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How much water are we talking about? A teaspoon is about 5cc is about 5g. That takes about 30 of those little 1g desiccant packets if you want it absorbed within a couple hours. If you're more patient than that, then it might take only 15 of those little 1g desiccant packets.

 

But what happens when the next teaspoon of water gets into the container? Or the teaspoon of water after that? Or...?

 

I'm not certified in using desiccant packets, but I have used them for seed saving. They're very useful, but also very limited.

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This thread reminds me I have had a step stool that is also a tool box out in my back yard for years. It is always dry inside. Just the other day when I opened it and it was all dry inside I was thinking I should make it a cache container. I bet after 10 years of being dry in my back yard it wouldn't make it a week as a cache. :)

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How much water are we talking about? A teaspoon is about 5cc is about 5g. That takes about 30 of those little 1g desiccant packets if you want it absorbed within a couple hours. If you're more patient than that, then it might take only 15 of those little 1g desiccant packets.

 

But what happens when the next teaspoon of water gets into the container? Or the teaspoon of water after that? Or...?

 

I'm not certified in using desiccant packets, but I have used them for seed saving. They're very useful, but also very limited.

 

Exactly. I have been certified in dehydrating equipment for almost 50 years.Many methods are used including vacuum pumps achieving greater than .2 HG ABS in conjunction with " cold traps " charged with dry ice, dry nitrogen, and desiccant filters. The largest desiccant commonly available are 5" in diameter and about 8 " long and weigh a few pounds....even they can only absorb about a teaspoon of water.

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And Decon containers have 4 corners not two. I have seen many wet insides because if you don't do it right sometimes the strap will get stuck in back or the back corners don't get snapped down tight so moisture will get in.

Wow! I haven't even seen a Decon container for maybe five years, at least. I don't think many of our hiders go to Army surplus stores for their containers anymore, since ammo cans have become too expensive.

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I have a logbook that lasted 9 years before getting very wet and moldy. It was a small spiral note pad In a good container but the problem is that paper will eventually get wet even here where it hardly ever rains. The solution is good paper. Other logs I have been replacing with Rite in the Rain paper. I just got some Terraslate to cut into strips and staple to make log books. This and the other plastic type papers are water and tear proof and marker pens do not stain through. You can write on these papers under water.

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