Logs in other languages

[+-CJ-]

I live in a country where English is not the main language so as a CO I typically translate all my geocache desriptions into English for those guests of our country who don't read Russian fluently. So, my caches go in two languages.

 

What I cannot understand is when a visitor logs such a cache and leaves his message in Spanish, Finnish or Lithuanian. No problems with brief "TFTC-style" logs but when there are several phrases describing the visitor's experience... what audience are they targeted at?

 

I have four possible variants in mind.

 

- The visitor was so happy that he/she couldn't find appropriate words in other languages do describe how great was my geocache.

- He was absolutely disappointed but didn't want me to be insulted by his log so used the language most probably unknown to me.

- He had 100+ geocaches in his plans for the same day so no time for translating anything, sorry.

- He used this very phrase in all his logs since the beginning of time so why change anything?

 

Any other ideas?

[+Harry Dolphin]

Presumably not fluent in either Russian or English? I get a number of logs in French. Presumably the French-Canadiennes are not fluent in English, or feel more comfortable in French? What was strange was a log in Spanish and German!

[+luvvinbird]

I've got the answer...a new attribute, "English Language Logs Only!!" Or Russian, or French, or Spanish, etc. Cool idea?

[+CanadianRockies]

One of the main purposes of my logs is to remind me of my experiences finding (or not finding) those caches. So, if I can write in only one language, then that's the language I'll write my log. It's great if the cache owner and other geocachers can read my logs, but they aren't my only target audience.

[+-CJ-]

Geocaching 101: Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

Finding your First Geocache: When you get home, log your experience online by going back to that cache page and using the links provided. The cache owner is automatically notified of your log and is always happy to know about your adventure, the condition of their cache, and any environmental factors. Upload photos to share your experience visually with other geocachers.

 

Logs are written to share stories/experience, this is how I used to think.

[+dprovan]

As someone that's multilingual, you may not be able to imagine someone that can only speak a single language.

 

I write my logs in English because that's the only language I can write a log in. I assume someone writing their logs in Finnish is doing that because Finnish is the only language they can write their logs in.

[+CanadianRockies]

You don't really expect everyone who logs your caches to be able to write in a language you understand. Do you? You probably can get the gist of those logs by using an online translator.

[+313JTG]

Even if the log was in Spanish, French, or something else, if you tried to translate it the text itself would lose meaning. Some words don't mesh between two languages, at best you'd get 90% of what the cacher was trying to say and barely any of the emotion from their log.

 

Translations are like playing that old telephone game: you lose part of the message as it's passed along.

[Andronicus]

Whenever I have found geocaches in Quebec, I always have added the google translate French version as well. I can read a tiny bit of French, so then try to proof read the French log, and sometimes make slight changes. Google is not Québécois, so it is not always the greatest result for French Canadians, but I guess it has to do.

 

I just like to do that to show my appreciation to the CO for the cache. Seems like the least I can do.

[cezanne]

I assume someone writing their logs in Finnish is doing that because Finnish is the only language they can write their logs in.

 

That's true only for one group of those who log in their native language. I observed that it has become more and more common to do so regardless of the language compentency available. One of the arguments I hear often is that when logging many caches it is faster to use your native language.

Edited August 17, 2014 by cezanne

[cezanne]

Even if the log was in Spanish, French, or something else, if you tried to translate it the text itself would lose meaning. Some words don't mesh between two languages, at best you'd get 90% of what the cacher was trying to say and barely any of the emotion from their log.

 

Do you really think that the majority of those who log caches abroad do know the local language well enough to bring all this across properly? I do not think so. I use to write all logs in English, but I would not dare to say that I can transport the emotions in all cases in a way that is unambigious and cannot be misunderstood in the context of a different culture.

What you want to get is fairly (to put it polite and not to say too) ambitious.

[+313JTG]

Even if the log was in Spanish, French, or something else, if you tried to translate it the text itself would lose meaning. Some words don't mesh between two languages, at best you'd get 90% of what the cacher was trying to say and barely any of the emotion from their log.

 

Do you really think that the majority of those who log caches abroad do know the local language well enough to bring all this across properly? I do not think so. I use to write all logs in English, but I would not dare to say that I can transport the emotions in all cases in a way that is unambigious and cannot be misunderstood in the context of a different culture.

What you want to get is fairly (to put it polite and not to say too) ambitious.

 

I actually agree with what you're saying, left out probably the most important part. Most cachers brings something unique to the cache, whether it's a swag item or a story, it's their mark on the cache. There should be no problem with someone expressing themselves the best they can. I'll take a log written in Japanese WWII ciphers over a simple "TFTC" anyday lol.

[+-CJ-]

As someone that's multilingual, you may not be able to imagine someone that can only speak a single language.

 

In my own country many people can only speak Russian. I think I'm able to imagine that

 

You don't really expect everyone who logs your caches to be able to write in a language you understand. Do you?

 

No. It's not really about what I expect, it's about what the visitor expects. Whom he addresses to in his logs. Himself, as CanadianRockies suggested? A sort of a personal blog about own adventures? I think I can imagine that too. But if it's so how about that sharing of experience in the guidelines?

 

I see logs translated into English quite often. Someone writes in his language, say Czech, and adds translation into English. It's always nice. It shows that the author of the text thinks about the audience. One cannot rely on automatic translation, true. It may be a bit awkward, probably some emotions are lost, but I've never seen meaningless translations in geocaching logs. They were always easy to understand.

 

I recently returned from Istanbul, Turkey, and met their local geocaching community. Very nice people. They talk Turkish among them of course. However they are geocachers, they have used geocaching.com (in English) for years, all their geocaches in Istanbul have descriptions in English. Not all of them speak English fluently but they can read this language. I left all my logs in English aiming at sharing my experience from geocaching in this city and knowing that people would understand me.

 

Same with geocaching communities in Lithuania and Latvia whom I met this month too. When I got acquainted with their caches I saw they also provided bi-lingual descriptions - in their native language and in English. Thus, I wrote my logs in English.

 

So, before addressing the audience I try to find out if the audience understands me. Do you often address any audience in language which the audience doesn't understand and without organizing any translation? If so, what sharing of experience do you expect from your speech?

 

I just like to do that to show my appreciation to the CO for the cache. Seems like the least I can do.

 

Very nice comment. I need to think about this next time I go abroad to a country where neither English nor Russian is widely spoken.

 

I'll take a log written in Japanese WWII ciphers over a simple "TFTC" anyday lol.

 

The log in Japanese (let's leave the ciphers aside) in a cache in Moscow would be just the same as "TFTC". Being either visitor or CO I will simply ignore this log.

 

So, it looks simple. If you don't care about your logs being read you can use the language you're most comfortable with, no matter whether the audience understands you or not. For instance, I could start this thread in Russian language, are you able to imagine how this discussion would look like then?

Edited August 17, 2014 by -CJ-

[+WarNinjas]

I will take logs in any language. Just glad they found it and left a nice log.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Logs are not just for the cache owner or other cachers, they are also a journal of one's adventures.

 

I think if you're only fluent in 1 language, it's just fine to log in that language. I've had Germans log my caches in German. I have no expectation that they translate their logs for me to read.

 

I'm not sure why you would want them to translate their logs. I suppose if you were curious, you could use Google translate to find out *exactly* what did or did not happen at GZ.

Edited August 17, 2014 by The_Incredibles_

[+Walts Hunting]

Maybe they wrote in the only language they know. You don't have to have local language skills to find a traditional in fact you don't even have to read the cache. Just follow the arrow, sign the log and mark as found.

[+Adventure.AS]

I live in a country where English is not the main language so as a CO I typically translate all my geocache desriptions into English for those guests of our country who don't read Russian fluently. So, my caches go in two languages.

 

What I cannot understand is when a visitor logs such a cache and leaves his message in Spanish, Finnish or Lithuanian. No problems with brief "TFTC-style" logs but when there are several phrases describing the visitor's experience... what audience are they targeted at?

 

I have four possible variants in mind.

 

- The visitor was so happy that he/she couldn't find appropriate words in other languages do describe how great was my geocache.

- He was absolutely disappointed but didn't want me to be insulted by his log so used the language most probably unknown to me.

- He had 100+ geocaches in his plans for the same day so no time for translating anything, sorry.

- He used this very phrase in all his logs since the beginning of time so why change anything?

 

Any other ideas?

 

English: I like the idea of writing a log in both English and the language of the country that I am visiting. However, I have been told that the translation programs often leave a lot to be desired. I am not sure if you would like to have the translation (even if not 100% correct.) Translation done with iTranslate for Mac

 

русский: Мне нравится идея написания журнала на английском и на языке страны, которую я посещения. Однако мне сказали, что перевод программы часто оставляют желать много лучшего. Я не уверен, если вы хотите иметь перевод (даже если не 100% исправить.) Перевод сделали с iTranslate для Mac

[+-CJ-]

I'm not sure why you would want them to translate their logs

 

Why do you think I started this thread in English?

[+CanadianRockies]

I'll take a log written in Japanese WWII ciphers over a simple "TFTC" anyday lol.

The log in Japanese (let's leave the ciphers aside) in a cache in Moscow would be just the same as "TFTC".

No, it's not just the same. If the cache owner or another geocacher wants to read about the experience someone had at the cache, then they have the option of translating the full log written in Japanese. It won't be perfect, but they probably will get a good idea. Someone who logs "TFTC" doesn't give other geocachers the option of learning much about their experience.

 

While Groundspeak encourages people to share their geocaching experiences through logs, there isn't anything in the guidelines that requires this kind of behavior. Those who expect more than a "TFTC" often will be disappointed. Those who expect long logs translated to their local language will be disappointed even more often.

[+-CJ-]

No, it's not just the same. If the cache owner or another geocacher wants to read about the experience someone had at the cache, then they have the option of translating the full log written in Japanese. It won't be perfect, but they probably will get a good idea.

 

In theory you're right but I'm talking about myself and I won't do translation. Just like you would not post your third message in this thread if I replied you in Russian, no?

[+CanadianRockies]

No, it's not just the same. If the cache owner or another geocacher wants to read about the experience someone had at the cache, then they have the option of translating the full log written in Japanese. It won't be perfect, but they probably will get a good idea.

In theory you're right but I'm talking about myself and I won't do translation. Just like you would not post your third message in this thread if I replied you in Russian, no?

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter, then I guess they are just the same. Personally, I have no such sense of entitlement. If I want to read a log that's written in a foreign language, then I'll do the translation. I did exactly that when I visited Costa Rica.

[+-CJ-]

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter

 

Do I really sound that selfish? If so, I'm sorry. I thought that I started with the phrase that "my caches go in two languages" and we're now communicating in the language which is more comfortable to you then me.

[+The_Incredibles_]

No, it's not just the same. If the cache owner or another geocacher wants to read about the experience someone had at the cache, then they have the option of translating the full log written in Japanese. It won't be perfect, but they probably will get a good idea.

 

In theory you're right but I'm talking about myself and I won't do translation. Just like you would not post your third message in this thread if I replied you in Russian, no?

 

There was someone who posted recently in French and they got replies.

 

Still, you can't possibly compare a discussion on the forum to a cache log. Most logs are not that interesting and don't require a reply. Why should someone spend their time translating, 'the weather was sunny, found the cache in the 2nd place we looked, had lunch after'. I mean, if *you* are that curious, then by all means, but, really, most logs wouldn't be worth translating.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

No, it's not just the same. If the cache owner or another geocacher wants to read about the experience someone had at the cache, then they have the option of translating the full log written in Japanese. It won't be perfect, but they probably will get a good idea.

In theory you're right but I'm talking about myself and I won't do translation. Just like you would not post your third message in this thread if I replied you in Russian, no?

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter, then I guess they are just the same. Personally, I have no such sense of entitlement. If I want to read a log that's written in a foreign language, then I'll do the translation. I did exactly that when I visited Costa Rica.

 

I just got back from a week in Costa RIca and found that most of the cache listings are written in English.

 

The way I see it, if the person hiding a cache and a person finding a cache only speak one language (and it's not the same language) either the hider or the finder is going to have to do a translation. A translation from Spanish to English is going to have the same issues whether it's done by the finder or the cache owner. As long as someone is going to have to do a translation, it might as well be those that want to read the log.

[+-CJ-]

you can't possibly compare a discussion on the forum to a cache log

 

Why? I could easily write here in my language following the same logic that people provided above. I would say: "If you are that curious you are free to translate my posts into your language".

 

I bet you won't translate. Not because my posts are all about the sunny weather and aren't worth translating (you cannot know before you translate them). Just because it's a miscommunication from the very start. Same with logs. One writes a log in some unknown language. He says: "Well, if you're that curious you can translate it yourself." It's obvious that he is not much interested in communications, sharing experience, etc. If he's not much interested, I'm not much interested too.

 

This would be a good answer to the initial question.

 

From what was said above (and how it was said) I can probably guess why we have so many misunderstandings with such a simple theme. In our country the game is pretty young and, let's say, logs matter. Logs are the way of sharing experience, telling about problems with geocaches, making new acquantainces, promoting the sport at whole. This is why we care and why what is said in the guidelines means much to us. With your longer history, numerous geocaches and thousands of finds some individual logs in languages you don't understand aren't that important.

Edited August 17, 2014 by -CJ-

[+The_Incredibles_]

you can't possibly compare a discussion on the forum to a cache log

 

Why? I could easily write here in my language following the same logic that people provided above. I would say: "If you are that curious you are free to translate my posts into your language".

 

I bet you won't translate.

 

It's not the same. Let me spell it out for you. The forum is for 2-way communication. Cache logs are for 1-way communication.

 

1 is not equal to 2, also written as 1 != 2

 

BTW, I did, actually, translate that person's post from French to English in order to try to help them. If you posted in Russian, I would translate it too. Since you're fluent in English, however, it makes sense for you to post in English whenever possible as that's the main language of the forum.

 

I still can't understand why you are making such a big deal out of this. What if the person only knows 1 language? Grumbling about it on here isn't going to suddenly make them bilingual.

[+CanadianRockies]

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter

Do I really sound that selfish? If so, I'm sorry. I thought that I started with the phrase that "my caches go in two languages" and we're now communicating in the language which is more comfortable to you then me.

No, not selfish. But when it comes to reading logs, it sounds like you have a sense of entitlement. As the cache owner, you seem to feel finders have an obligation not only to write logs that share their experiences but also translate those logs into a language you understand.

[Andronicus]

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter

 

Do I really sound that selfish? If so, I'm sorry. I thought that I started with the phrase that "my caches go in two languages" and we're now communicating in the language which is more comfortable to you then me.

I can definitely see both sides of this argument. However, I can't imagine thinking that someone who went to the effort to hide and maintain a cache was somehow selfish.

 

No, not selfish. But when it comes to reading logs, it sounds like you have a sense of entitlement. As the cache owner, you seem to feel finders have an obligation not only to write logs that share their experiences but also translate those logs into a language you understand.

I think that I must have a bit of "Entitlement" regarding logs as well. I don't place guard rail caches or skirt lifters. I have gone to a reasonable effort to hide each of my caches. A "tftc" or similar actually makes me feel unappreciated (and slightly angry). Good think most logs on my caches are better than that, or I would have stopped hiding them a long time ago.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Andronicus

[+uxorious]

I only speak, and write English, all my logs will be written in that language.

 

I've had a couple of logs written on my caches in language other than English. Never had a problem with running them through a Bing translation, and getting the gist of the log.

 

I write the online log for the cache owner's benefit as well as mine, but I don't expect anyone to learn a new language in order to log my cache, and I won't learn a new language to log yours.

[+JPreto]

I have good example here in Brazil...

 

I am Portuguese, so my mother language is Portuguese (PT-PT) but I´m living now in Brazil, mother language here is Brazilian (PT-BR) which is very similar so Portuguese but different enough so that my wife and I, she is Brazilian, sometimes we have problems communicating and make ourselves understand each other.

 

Here in Brazil Geocaching is not a big thing yet, only around 2000 active caches in the 5th biggest country in the whole world.

 

This also shows that most geocachers here are not Brazilians but foreigners. This is the data from last 2 years:

 

Total players that have residence in Brazil:

 

2012 - 208

2013 - 322

2014 - 255

 

Total players that have found caches in Brazil:

 

2012 - 673

2013 - 993

2014 - 575

 

So, from this date you can clearly see that most geocachers in Brazil are foreigners, 67,5% to be more precise.

 

My caches are all written in 2 languages: Portuguese from Portugal and English.

 

Here in Brazil, as I am not willing to write all my logs in 2 languages, I do them all in English, which is for me the majority of the listeners (non-Brazilian Geocachers) but when I am in Portugal I write in Portuguese since there, the majority of the geocacher is Portuguese, like 99% of the logs.

 

I have been severely criticized by local Brazilian geocachers because of my attitude but I really feel that this is the way to do it: "writing for the biggest audience".

 

If I would go to Russia I would certainly write in English but imagine I was Spanish and couldn´t understand neither russian nor English, in what language should I write my Russian Caches logs? For sure in Spanish...

Edited August 17, 2014 by JPreto

[+uxorious]

If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter

 

Do I really sound that selfish? If so, I'm sorry. I thought that I started with the phrase that "my caches go in two languages" and we're now communicating in the language which is more comfortable to you then me.

I can definitely see both sides of this argument. However, I can't imagine thinking that someone who went to the effort to hide and maintain a cache was somehow selfish.

 

No, not selfish. But when it comes to reading logs, it sounds like you have a sense of entitlement. As the cache owner, you seem to feel finders have an obligation not only to write logs that share their experiences but also translate those logs into a language you understand.

I think that I must have a bit of "Entitlement" regarding logs as well. I don't place guard rail caches or skirt lifters. I have gone to a reasonable effort to hide each of my caches. A "tftc" or similar actually makes me feel unappreciated (and slightly angry). Good think most logs on my caches are better than that, or I would have stopped hiding them a long time ago.

 

Hoping for a nice log written on a cache you've taken time to hide is not a sense of "entitlement". Wanting a visitor who does not write in your language to log in other than his own language, does sound like a sense of entitlement.

[+K13]

I speak Texan most of the time, but I try to write my logs (and forum posts) in English. Bout th ownly waie y'all cud unnerstan me.

[+CanadianRockies]

No, not selfish. But when it comes to reading logs, it sounds like you have a sense of entitlement. As the cache owner, you seem to feel finders have an obligation not only to write logs that share their experiences but also translate those logs into a language you understand.

I think that I must have a bit of "Entitlement" regarding logs as well. I don't place guard rail caches or skirt lifters. I have gone to a reasonable effort to hide each of my caches. A "tftc" or similar actually makes me feel unappreciated (and slightly angry). Good think most logs on my caches are better than that, or I would have stopped hiding them a long time ago.

I, too, usually put a reasonable effort into the caches I hide. But I guess I look at logs from an opposite perspective. I'm grateful when I receive nice logs that are written in English. However, I realize different people geocache for different reasons and sharing their experiences might not be a high priority for everyone. So, I don't get upset when they don't. And I certainly don't get upset when they write a longer log in a language I don't understand. I just don't feel entitled to these things.

Edited August 17, 2014 by CanadianRockies

[+dprovan]

As someone that's multilingual, you may not be able to imagine someone that can only speak a single language.

In my own country many people can only speak Russian. I think I'm able to imagine that

No, the more I read your comments, the more I really don't think you can see it from the point of view of someone that's monolingual.

 

If you were to come to the US and log one of my caches, you'd choose to write your log in English. If one of your monolingual compatriots came to the US, they'd log in Russian. When I saw their log, I wouldn't be thinking, "Gee, who do they think they're talking to? Do they think I know Russian?" I'd be thinking, "I guess Russian is the language they are comfortable with." That's the sum total of what I'd think about them. It would be my responsibility to figure out how to read what they wrote.

 

The last thing I'd want them to do is decide not to share their thoughts because they were worried about whether I could read them. The second to last thing I'd want them to do is turn their thoughts into garbage by running them through an auto-translator.

[+-CJ-]

I'm a bit frustrated by lessons like "1 is not equal to 2" and that I cannot view the situation from the point of a monolingual person. Now it came to "entitlement" and "obligations" like if I was pushing anyone to write logs in my language. My initial interest was to discuss what audience people target at when they communicate. I think it's about to go too personal now and I wish to avoid that. Please excuse me for any misunderstanding caused by this thread. I really appreciate all opinions published here and let me say again that if you even come to our country please let me know in advance so I could organize something nice for your geocaching staying here.

 

JPreto, thanks a lot about sharing your interesting experience in Brazil.

Edited August 17, 2014 by -CJ-

[+dprovan]

My initial interest was to discuss what audience people target at when they communicate.

My audience is the people reading the log. Alas, as I explained, I only have certain abilities, so I can't do anything to help them if they can't read the language I am using. Since I have no choice, I don't worry about that problem. Admittedly, since I'm writing in English, I'm in a privileged position, but I'm reasonably certain I'd feel the same way even if my native language was Swahili.

 

As someone else mentioned, I also use the logs remind myself of the experience, so that's a secondary audience I keep in mind, but that has nothing to do with the language I use.

 

I do apologize for your frustration, but I think the problem is that the answer to your question seems obvious to most of us, and in trying to get that obvious message across, we're using language which might seem condescending or pedantic. I always appreciate your posts and have gotten a lot of insights into other caching cultures from them -- including this one -- so the last thing I want to do is pick a fight with you.

[+JPreto]

I'm a bit frustrated by lessons like "1 is not equal to 2" and that I cannot view the situation from the point of a monolingual person.

 

-CJ- Don´t be disappointed with other person´s opinions... They are just that, OPINIONS!

 

Sometimes you like them, sometimes you hate them but nevertheless they are opinions... I can always learn from any opinion, even if I don´t agree with it.

 

In my case, I opted to write my logs in Brazil in a different language because I think with that the audience will be greater, even because google translate will be more correct translating from English to Portuguese rather than the other way around, yet another reason for me to write my logs in English when I found caches in Brazil.

 

In any case, most Brazilians think I am just being an arrogant Portuguese guy, that comes to Brazil and does things his way, not caring about national culture... That is the burden i carry from my ancestors that colonized Brazil 500 years ago. I can live with that and still enjoy playing geocaching and going to all the caches other players place, no matter the nationality, race or language they write in their logs!

 

If I couldn´t write in any other language I would not use google translate but write it in the language I know, at least I am writing something I agree with and not something that can have words I don´t mean.

 

For example, if I say in Brazilian: "Cache legal!"

In google translate to english is: "Legal cache!"

 

Imagine that I picking up a cache in the US and I don´t know any other language rather than Brazilian if I would use the google translate I would seem like a very silly guy "Legal cache"? the CO would probably say, what is he trying to say with that?

 

But if I write it in Brazilian, the only language I know, if any Brazilian or Portuguese geoacacher reads the log will immediately say: "we must go and get this cache" because the actual correct translation for English would be "Cool cache!", very different from the google translate "Legal cache!"

 

Hopes this answers your original questions!!!! Cheers and enjoy!

[+JBnW]

My initial interest was to discuss what audience people target at when they communicate.

Don't worry CJ, I understood your question from the start. As for me, the primary audience is always the CO to at least thank them for the cache, let them know its condition and that it is still there. Often I'll tell a bit of why I was in the area, what happened that day, etc., etc. If other cachers get anything from my logs that's cool but not the point. Only occasionally would I specifically include something for future finders, like a notice there's new construction in the area or something, otherwise I try to avoid spoilers. And my logs will always be in English, that is the best way for me to communicate. When I get a chance to cache someplace that has a different local language, my logs will be in English and I would try to keep it simple so the on-line translators don't mangle the translation too badly.

 

But that's just me.

[+J Grouchy]

My target audience is myself.

If someone else can read it - be it the CO or another cacher - all the better.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

My target audience is myself.

If someone else can read it - be it the CO or another cacher - all the better.

 

On the Geocaching 101 page it reads:

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

...

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

 

Furthermore, on the Learn how to log your find page it has:

6. Enter any comments you wish to share with the owner and/or community regarding your find.

 

Again, that implies that the purpose of the log is to share comments with the owner and/or community about your experience.

 

Unfortunately the online line has devolved to an obligatory step one must take in order to get credit for the find and increment ones find count and

has led to the belief that the online log is primarily for the finders personal benefit.

 

 

 

 

[cezanne]

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

 

Again, that implies that the purpose of the log is to share comments with the owner and/or community about your experience.

 

The community is large and diverse, however. There is no universal language. One cannot meet the goal to share with everyone.

 

By logging in English also in non English speaking countries my logs are available to all those who cannot read the local language. There is an abundance of logs in the local

language anyway. If there is something special I need to tell the owner and if I assume that the owner does not understand English, I add some text in the local language (if I know it).

 

Unfortunately the online line has devolved to an obligatory step one must take in order to get credit for the find and increment ones find count and

has led to the belief that the online log is primarily for the finders personal benefit.

 

I do not write my logs to increment my find count. However, I think that there will always be a subjective component/interest in writing up log stories. The author of a log

will more likely report on what appears of interest to him/her and not so much on what is boring for him/her. I often write about things in my logs where I know for sure that they will be interesting only for a minority (as I'm belonging to one myself, this is not surprising). The best (in the sense of I enjoy reading them the most) hiking blogs I know are written because the authors enjoy writing about their experiences.

 

There is no priority order owner/other cachers. I might happen to report about interesting, but hardly known historic details about an object I encountered along the way in one of my logs while at the same time knowing that the cache owner is not interested into history at all.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 18, 2014 by cezanne

[+NanCycle]

Just throwing in a comment here--for whatever it's worth:

 

English (American) is the only language I can write in, although I studied German in school and still can read it a little. When I have tried using the auto-translate to translate a log or post written in German into English, I could not make any more sense out of the English "translation" than I could out of the original German. I would never use an auto-translate to convert my written English into another language, because who knows what I might end up saying.

 

OK as an experiment--here is the Google translation of the paragraph above into Russian:

 

Английский (Американский) является единственным языком, я могу написать в, хотя я изучал немецкий в школе и до сих пор можно прочитать его немного. Когда я попытался с помощью авто-перевода перевести журнал или сообщение на немецком языке на английский язык, я не мог сделать любой больше смысла из английского «перевода», чем я мог из оригинального немецкого. Я бы никогда не использовать авто-перевода для преобразования мой письменный английский на другой язык, потому что, кто знает, что я мог бы в конечном итоге говорят.

[+Trotter17]

It seems to me that unless the finder feels that they can adequately express their thoughts in the CO's language, the best option is probably to write in the language they are most comfortable with. Why? Because then you are ensuring that the words and ideas on the log are as accurate as possible. If the CO or anyone else wants to read the log and can't, they have the option of running it through one or more auto translators.

 

If you type something out in your native language and translate it, the only thing anyone will have to go off of is a roughly translated document that probably does not most accurately capture the thoughts of the author. If it is written in the finder's native language, however, it can be translated multiple times in different ways by whomever wants to read it or be read by others fluent in that language.

[+DanOCan]

My initial interest was to discuss what audience people target at when they communicate. I think it's about to go too personal now and I wish to avoid that. Please excuse me for any misunderstanding caused by this thread. I really appreciate all opinions published here and let me say again that if you even come to our country please let me know in advance so I could organize something nice for your geocaching staying here.

I have three audiences in mind when I write a log.

 

1) My future self. My logs are primarily to record my experience so I can look back at it one day and remember my visit to an area, whether that's a park in my city or a foreign country. I like making memories, even if that memory is as simple as the day mle520 and I went for a short walk around her neighborhood while the Thanksgiving turkey cooked.

 

2) The cache owner. I like to try and convey information to the CO such as the condition of the cache, if I thought it was rated appropriately, what I thought of the area, etc.

 

3) Future cache seekers. I like to provide information that maybe isn't in the cache description. Is the area full of trash? Is it in a busy area where you are in plain view of the public? Was the cache hard to locate?

 

I write all my logs in English simply because I wouldn't trust an online translator to not insult someone in their native tongue.

[+CanadianRockies]

My target audience is myself.

If someone else can read it - be it the CO or another cacher - all the better.

On the Geocaching 101 page it reads:

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

...

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

Come on. You're taking this suggestion way too literally. The Geocaching 101 page offers advice on how to get started geocaching, not rules for how you must geocache.

 

If you want to take Step 8 literally, then cachers also must share photos online and geocaching would be off limits to anyone without a camera.

 

And what about Step 3: "Enter your postal code and click 'search.'" I rarely use postal codes to search for geocaches. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Then there's Step 7: "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location." I guess I can no longer do EarthCaches, virtuals, webcams, and many events and lab caches.

 

Furthermore, on the Learn how to log your find page it has:

6. Enter any comments you wish to share with the owner and/or community regarding your find.

 

Again, that implies that the purpose of the log is to share comments with the owner and/or community about your experience.

It implies that only if you're being very selective about how you choose to interpret this "how to" advice. Sharing your experiences certainly is one purpose for which logs can be used, but nothing says it's the only purpose of those logs. Groundspeak's suggestion does not go on to say, "Don't use logs to enter comments you want to use to remind yourself of the experience. Such comments are an abuse of this website."

[+dprovan]

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

Come on. You're taking this suggestion way too literally. The Geocaching 101 page offers advice on how to get started geocaching, not rules for how you must geocache.

I know what you mean, and I started to have the same reaction. But then I thought about it, and NYPaddleCacher has a valid point: even when your interest is in reminding yourself about the cache, it's still rude to focus on that to the exclusion of sharing your experience with other people. You should always remind yourself by way of sharing your experience with other people.

[+terrkan78]

I write logs for two audiences:

 

1. To thank the CO.

2. To tell future cache seekers about my experience, so they can decide if this cache is worth attempting. (I'm usually going after fairly remote caches that take a lot of time/effort to get to.)

 

I consider #2 to be my primary focus, because when I'm searching the map for a good-looking cache to attempt, I use logs in making this determination.

 

If I were to log a cache in a foreign country, I would translate it because my primary target audience isn't likely to bother (I wouldn't bother unless I desperately wanted more info about this particular cache). I would, however, worry that the Google translation will be really messed up.

[+CanadianRockies]

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

Come on. You're taking this suggestion way too literally. The Geocaching 101 page offers advice on how to get started geocaching, not rules for how you must geocache.

I know what you mean, and I started to have the same reaction. But then I thought about it, and NYPaddleCacher has a valid point: even when your interest is in reminding yourself about the cache, it's still rude to focus on that to the exclusion of sharing your experience with other people. You should always remind yourself by way of sharing your experience with other people.

Geocachers are a diverse group of people who cache and write logs for many diverse reasons. I think it's unreasonable to expect them all to have a single primary purpose when they log.

 

Some will simply leave "." or "TFTC." Maybe they're embarrassed that their writing skills are below average. Or maybe they're busy parents who have more important things to spend their time doing than writing detailed logs. Or maybe they simply have different priorities than you or I. That doesn't necessarily make them rude.

 

My perspective about logs is similar to my perspective about CITOing. I'm grateful when people collect trash or leave logs that I find interesting and helpful, but I don't consider it rude when they don't.

Edited August 18, 2014 by CanadianRockies

[+NYPaddleCacher]

My target audience is myself.

If someone else can read it - be it the CO or another cacher - all the better.

On the Geocaching 101 page it reads:

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

...

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

Come on. You're taking this suggestion way too literally. The Geocaching 101 page offers advice on how to get started geocaching, not rules for how you must geocache.

 

If you want to take Step 8 literally, then cachers also must share photos online and geocaching would be off limits to anyone without a camera.

 

And what about Step 3: "Enter your postal code and click 'search.'" I rarely use postal codes to search for geocaches. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Then there's Step 7: "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location." I guess I can no longer do EarthCaches, virtuals, webcams, and many events and lab caches.

 

No, I'm not taking the suggestion literally. Despite the apparent exceptions regarding sharing photos, the search methodology, and containerless caches, the implication is still that the intended primary purpose of the online log is to share ones experience with the co and other cachers.

 

 

Furthermore, on the Learn how to log your find page it has:

6. Enter any comments you wish to share with the owner and/or community regarding your find.

 

Again, that implies that the purpose of the log is to share comments with the owner and/or community about your experience.

It implies that only if you're being very selective about how you choose to interpret this "how to" advice. Sharing your experiences certainly is one purpose for which logs can be used, but nothing says it's the only purpose of those logs. Groundspeak's suggestion does not go on to say, "Don't use logs to enter comments you want to use to remind yourself of the experience. Such comments are an abuse of this website."

 

Frankly, I don't think it should be necessary to explicitly state what an online log should be use for and what it shouldn't. I wasn't suggesting that it should *only* be used for sharing ones experience with the CO and other geocachers, but it's pretty obvious to me that the intent of that guideline is to suggest it's the primary reason. If someone writes that they write logs primarily for their personal benefit and then points out the that guidelines don't specially state that is how it's supposed to be used that just comes across to me as if they're looking for a semantic interpretation of the guideline to justify their actions.

 

Sometimes it seem like some view the guidelines as a challenge. Instead of trying to understand the reason behind the guideline, and comply with it, they'll come up with a semantic interpretation of the language that allows them to get away with something that the guideline is trying to prevent.

 

 

[+J Grouchy]

8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

That implies, to me, that the primary purpose of the online log is to share your experience with others, not just for your benefit.

Come on. You're taking this suggestion way too literally. The Geocaching 101 page offers advice on how to get started geocaching, not rules for how you must geocache.

I know what you mean, and I started to have the same reaction. But then I thought about it, and NYPaddleCacher has a valid point: even when your interest is in reminding yourself about the cache, it's still rude to focus on that to the exclusion of sharing your experience with other people. You should always remind yourself by way of sharing your experience with other people.

 

Don't take what I said the wrong way. Me being my primary audience is not meant to say that I don't care about sharing my experience with others. It simply means that I don't assume others care about my day as much as I do. If I had a true adventure seeking the cache, I'll write about it. If I don't have much to say about it, I'll remark on the ease with which I found it or what I was doing in the area, etc. Why would someone else care if I was "in the area for work"? I put that sort of comment in mostly as a reminder to myself.

 

If I had no interest in others seeing what I was up to, I'd post "TFTC" and move on to the next one.