Fine line of commercial caches

[Devoc]

I'm inquiring into using geocaching as a means of economic development. I work for a municipality, but want to push geocaching for the region. As I am trying to "sell" geocaching to councils, tourism groups, and organizations, I am trying point out how it can contribute to local economies by attracting tourists. I want to point out to them how creating a cache can create ownership of an area, pride in using that area, and the groups who use that site(s). My question is, at what point does a cache become "commercial?"

 

Some criteria I fully understand:

- can't require entering a business or purchasing something

- no social or political agendas

 

But the other points I'm fuzzy on. Groundspeak states a geocache cannot contain links to businesses agencies, etc; cannot contain logos; or the name of businesses or commercial products. Is that limited to the physical geocache itself and the description/logbook? (Ex. a big business sticker right on the box) What about swag? I've read online that farmer's markets have used geocaches to hide coins which can be used for currency. John Grisham even used geocaching to help promote a book. What if swag includes a business card or carabiner with a logo that someone left? Does that make the cache commercial? It's a fuzzy line I'm not entirely sure of, but I know business owners and organizations should be aware of.

 

I'm in an impartial position here, but I'd love for groups who are passionate about geocaching to be able to market themselves to SOME degree. It will help encourage community buy-in while supporting honest well meaning groups.

 

So can someone explain the details to me?

[+Bear and Ragged]

You may be better off contacting Groundspeak directly.

If they say "Yes" it can be commercial. Or more commercial than it would be otherwise...

 

May be worth having a read of this > Geocaching and GeoTours < link

There are a few direct links in there.

 

Or a general email us > http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=request

Edited August 20, 2014 by Bear and Ragged

[+ADKer]

To my knowledge, those rules about logos and such actually only apply to what's online. You can stick a big logo on a cache box. You can put coupons to a business in. You own the geocache. Do with it what you wish. Just don't put in within a business.

 

I would like to hear other input though, as I could be completely mistaken.

[+Panther&Pine]

Geotours with coins as rewards are nice, then you can even say 'hey look I got c number of folks to visited site over x amount of time". The formal Geotours cost money, see washintong state parks Geotour. For a lower cost option you can do geocoins, trackable or not.

Or some other passport system with a reward.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm inquiring into using geocaching as a means of economic development. I work for a municipality, but want to push geocaching for the region. As I am trying to "sell" geocaching to councils, tourism groups, and organizations, I am trying point out how it can contribute to local economies by attracting tourists. I want to point out to them how creating a cache can create ownership of an area, pride in using that area, and the groups who use that site(s). My question is, at what point does a cache become "commercial?"

 

It sounds like what you're looking for is the page on geotourism: http://www.geocaching.com/travel/

 

John Grisham even used geocaching to help promote a book.

 

And he's listed on the branded promotions page: http://www.geocachin...ndedpromotions/

 

What if swag includes a business card or carabiner with a logo that someone left? Does that make the cache commercial? It's a fuzzy line I'm not entirely sure of, but I know business owners and organizations should be aware of.

 

The commercial guidelines only apply to the cache listing. It does not extend to the contents of the cache (swag). On the other hand, if you place a cache near a local business, don't mention the business, and keep it full of "10% off coupons" for that business people are going to have the perception that the cache was placed for commercial purposes. A lot of people enjoy this game because, due to the commercial guideline, it is one of the few things one can do without continuous commercial bombardment.

 

I'm in an impartial position here, but I'd love for groups who are passionate about geocaching to be able to market themselves to SOME degree. It will help encourage community buy-in while supporting honest well meaning groups.

 

So can someone explain the details to me?

 

Basically, it boils down to what is written in the guidelines: Cache listings perceived as commercial will not be published.

 

The key word there is "perceived" and applies to the cache listing, not the swag. Cache listing *can* be commercial in nature, but like many forms of advertising, you're (not you, specifically) going to have to pay for it.

 

There's also a good page which has a list of geotourism groups that are doing pretty much what you're proposing; http://www.geocachin...ntures/geotours

[+The A-Team]

To my knowledge, those rules about logos and such actually only apply to what's online. You can stick a big logo on a cache box. You can put coupons to a business in. You own the geocache. Do with it what you wish. Just don't put in within a business.

 

I would like to hear other input though, as I could be completely mistaken.

That's my understanding of the commercial guidelines. There's no way for Groundspeak or the reviewers to know what's inside the container, so they can't really regulate the contents of it. There are recommendations regarding food, liquids, dangerous items, etc., but nothing about commercial swag. The commercial guidelines are for the online cache listing.

 

Bear and Ragged's suggestion to contact Groundspeak is probably the best, though. They can give you definitive answers to your questions, while we can only give our opinions or secondhand information. Also, you're not the first entity to use geocaching as a tourist draw, so they might be able to give you some recommendations based on their experiences with others.

[+sbell111]

Several years ago, there was another forum thread about this issue. As I recall, a cache that starts out full of items that promoted a single business were deemed to be commercial and in violation of the guidelines. However, some of these items could be placed in the new cache and there was nothing wrong with placing these items into ongoing caches.

 

This was several years ago and the official position on the issue may have changed since that time.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Several years ago, there was another forum thread about this issue. As I recall, a cache that starts out full of items that promoted a single business were deemed to be commercial and in violation of the guidelines. However, some of these items could be placed in the new cache and there was nothing wrong with placing these items into ongoing caches.

 

This was several years ago and the official position on the issue may have changed since that time.

 

A few years back we found a regular size in the Houston area packed with trades....every item was an Enron advertizing gadget.....got a real chuckle out of it.

Maybe its not commercial if the company no longer exists.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Another way to look at it is that efforts like this hijack my hobby and I don't like it. You say you're "trying to "sell" geocaching to councils, tourism groups, and organizations", all of which have very different agendas from the majority of we hobbyists. You want to co-opt Geocaching so these other orgs can succeed at their missions, but at our expense.

 

The wider you make the appeal of GC to people who aren't 'grabbed' by the concept, the more you expose our work to the general public which would probably treat our caches with less respect and consideration than we would like.

 

Someone will say that it's in our own best interests to get as many people as possible into caching, but I don't believe that at all. See the recent expansion into cellphone caching with NO effort to make sure that these new players do anything except follow an arrow. Not much effort to make sure they understand the rules. NO effort to even get an email address from them, so we can't even talk to them about how this is supposed to work! The result? We all know that the difference between a contributing, compliant member and a drain on the hobby is in the level of 'buy-in' and interest, not whether or not they've plunked down ten bucks for a app.

 

We're always reading and writing about our 'ninja skills', making sure other people on the bike trail or roadside don't take undo notice of us and what we're doing. WHY would I want a municipal webpage to exhort people to come and rifle through my ammo box (which isn't bolted to the tree!) in the name of economic development or civic pride?

 

A set of harried parents with four unruly kids would visit a town where the Chamber of Commerce has distributed lists of local caches to the local motels. "What'll we do with the kids today?" I know, let's go trash these things.

 

Frankly, part of the appeal of this is exactly the closed nature of the community; that's apparent in the joking term we use to refer to people who are not 'in the know'.

 

Please consider the impact on the hobby before you attempt to bend the guidelines to fit your business model. Not everything needs to be developed and exploited.

 

In other words, "Leave us Alone".

 

Just my opinion, for which I'm sure I'll get beaten up.

[+J Grouchy]

A couple highly successful GeoTrails have popped up in my area recently, promoting historic areas and the like:

 

http://www.tourjacksoncounty.com/geocaching-trail.html

http://arabiaalliance.org/explore/geocaching-adventures/

[+narcissa]

Please consider the impact on the hobby before you attempt to bend the guidelines to fit your business model. Not everything needs to be developed and exploited.

 

Fully agree. Too many charlatans have already damaged the game.

[+Maebius]

Another way to look at it is that efforts like this hijack my hobby and I don't like it.

<snip>Just my opinion, for which I'm sure I'll get beaten up.

 

I'm a recent muggle, just turned Geocacher, and already I can say that I agree to your observation.

The idea of selling the caches is an interesting and creative take on improving tourism, I grant that. I'd be more inclined to come check a place out that I 'knew' had some neat hidden treasures around the area. Kudos for that.

 

However, I also understand the wider implications of that, which means more muggles, more casual cachers, and much more chance of the caches themselves being taken or messed with.

That's just human nature, and I don't say it to insult any "newbie/muggles" at all. But one thing that drew me to the hobby was the idea of a slightly self-regulated 'secret' society of friends who enjoy leaving presents for others, and getting me to find cool little out-of-the-way spots I might have never stopped by on my own. Making even my favorite 'secret gardens' more public would spoil just a wee bit of the magic in them. "We" know about them, but "They" don't.

That being said, it's nice to bring new folks into the club, but I'd prefer to keep it more word-of-mouth among friends, rather than "mass marketing appeal"

(which I also feel is one issue with the email-verification issues on the free app... but that's another topic thread entirely.)

[+TeamRabbitRun]

A couple highly successful GeoTrails have popped up in my area recently, promoting historic areas and the like:

 

http://www.tourjacksoncounty.com/geocaching-trail.html

http://arabiaalliance.org/explore/geocaching-adventures/

 

But J, my friend, that's marketing the historic areas to geocachers. THAT'S who's going to find them.

 

What's being discussed (by me, anyway) is the reverse: telling people who come to a historic place to go play with these geocaches.

[+wimseyguy]

I'm inquiring into using geocaching as a means of economic development. I work for a municipality, but want to push geocaching for the region. As I am trying to "sell" geocaching to councils, tourism groups, and organizations, I am trying point out how it can contribute to local economies by attracting tourists. I want to point out to them how creating a cache can create ownership of an area, pride in using that area, and the groups who use that site(s). My question is, at what point does a cache become "commercial?"

 

I'm in an impartial position here, but I'd love for groups who are passionate about geocaching to be able to market themselves to SOME degree. It will help encourage community buy-in while supporting honest well meaning groups.

 

So can someone explain the details to me?

 

Based on your opening sentence, I fully agree with those who suggest that you contact GeocachingHQ directly and have this conversation with them. You are already starting with an agenda, albeit a good one. Lots of people cache to get away from their daily life and grind. Finding caches that might meet the letter of the guidelines, but skirt the intent by being thinly veiled advertisements for nearby businesses will just sour them on the experience.

 

One of the local reviewers often uses this phrase when asked about this issue; I think that it should get added to the commercial cache guideline to provide some clarity. "You shouldn't use a free geocaching.com listing to promote or endorse a commercial establishment or its products and services."

[+narcissa]

It's worth pointing out that this sort of "economic development" has already been done, with varying degrees of success. Many cachers tend to resent this sort of thing.

[+sbell111]

B&R's advice still remains the best. Contacting TPTB is the best way to work out how to implement this idea.

Edited August 21, 2014 by sbell111

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Here's another thing to consider if you're thinking about trying to use Geocaching as an economic engine.

 

Geocaching relies on one and ONLY one resource: us, as Cache Owners.

 

If an area integrates caching with its local business and tourism machine, two things will happen:

 

1. Hiders of creative, well thought out caches will make them PMO, severely limiting casual seekers from finding them, and

2. Hiders of creative, well thought out caches will simply stop.

 

The effect will be that VERY quickly, the attractive caches in the local area will disappear, leaving you with lots of Lamppost and Guardrail micros and keyholder caches and making the tourism-tie-in effort a self-generating failure.

 

Finding these poorly placed, unmaintained, empty boxes with nasty writing in the logs will turn people off to your area. "Remember that town? That's where we wasted two hours playing that silly game."

 

What will become known as "Real" caches will be found up in the hills and in the forest outside of town, with PMO listings. You will diminish Geocaching in your area, hurting your local GC population, and you'll end up doing more harm than good to your own mission.

 

Repeating my second sentence, Geocaching relies on one and ONLY one resource: us, as Cache Owners. I can't see many of us spending a lot of time and money to create and maintain good caches to be turned over to the general public. Ain't nobody payin' us.

[+cerberus1]

Here's another thing to consider if you're thinking about trying to use Geocaching as an economic engine.

 

Geocaching relies on one and ONLY one resource: us, as Cache Owners.

 

If an area integrates caching with its local business and tourism machine, two things will happen:

 

1. Hiders of creative, well thought out caches will make them PMO, severely limiting casual seekers from finding them, and

2. Hiders of creative, well thought out caches will simply stop.

 

The effect will be that VERY quickly, the attractive caches in the local area will disappear, leaving you with lots of Lamppost and Guardrail micros and keyholder caches and making the tourism-tie-in effort a self-generating failure.

 

Finding these poorly placed, unmaintained, empty boxes with nasty writing in the logs will turn people off to your area. "Remember that town? That's where we wasted two hours playing that silly game."

 

What will become known as "Real" caches will be found up in the hills and in the forest outside of town, with PMO listings. You will diminish Geocaching in your area, hurting your local GC population, and you'll end up doing more harm than good to your own mission.

 

Repeating my second sentence, Geocaching relies on one and ONLY one resource: us, as Cache Owners. I can't see many of us spending a lot of time and money to create and maintain good caches to be turned over to the general public. Ain't nobody payin' us.

I understand your view, even with the "Sky falling" rant, but there hasn't been much difference in caches or placements since the current free intro app, or even the (hopefully long gone) geomate jr. came out years ago.

Both were designed to have caches, "turned over to the general public" without the cache owners being asked.

Quality is subjective

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I understand your view, even with the "Sky falling" rant, but there hasn't been much difference in caches or placements since the current free intro app, or even the (hopefully long gone) geomate jr. came out years ago.

Both were designed to have caches, "turned over to the general public" without the cache owners being asked.

Quality is subjective

 

Nuthin' like a good rant, tho. Cleansing.

 

<Sigh>

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I understand your view, even with the "Sky falling" rant, but there hasn't been much difference in caches or placements since the current free intro app, or even the (hopefully long gone) geomate jr. came out years ago.

Both were designed to have caches, "turned over to the general public" without the cache owners being asked.

Quality is subjective

 

Actually, I don't know what the real widespread 'numbers' are, but I frequently read people in these forums talking about the effect that recent developments in the hobby have had on them and their hides. 'PMO-ing' is not uncommon. Giving up placing larger caches is not uncommon. Giving up participation in the 'Trackable' side-game is not uncommon.

 

So.... I'm not sure I agree with your comment.

 

Now, I admit that it COULD be just us angry alta kockers who post on the forums. The vast majority of the players could, of course, be outside having fun.

[Devoc]

GeoTourism is precisely what I'm hoping to accomplish. I will read up further into them with your link. This is definitely not a project I am pursuing lightly, and I will also be speaking with Groundspeak in collaboration

 

You may be better off contacting Groundspeak directly.

If they say "Yes" it can be commercial. Or more commercial than it would be otherwise...

 

May be worth having a read of this > Geocaching and GeoTours < link

There are a few direct links in there.

 

Or a general email us > http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=request

[Devoc]

I appreciate your concerns. I think my comment using the word "sell" may have been slightly misleading. In the area I'm living, my goal in its simplest form is to increase the amount of geocaches available. I fully plan on collaborating with existing geocachers, geocaching groups, Groundspeak, as well as councils, tourism groups and organizations interested to do this. This means introducing geocaching to those who aren't familiar with it, but also explaining the concerns of existing geocachers, the respect of lands caches are hidden on and for property owners.

 

As for my inquiry into commercial caches, I don't seek to bend the rules. I understand they're put in place for a reason. At this point in planning my project, I am performing due diligence and researching answers for potential questions and concerns that people or groups may have.

 

Again, thank you for your comment, as I'm certain other geocachers may voice similar ones as well.

 

Another way to look at it is that efforts like this hijack my hobby and I don't like it. You say you're "trying to "sell" geocaching to councils, tourism groups, and organizations", all of which have very different agendas from the majority of we hobbyists. You want to co-opt Geocaching so these other orgs can succeed at their missions, but at our expense.

 

The wider you make the appeal of GC to people who aren't 'grabbed' by the concept, the more you expose our work to the general public which would probably treat our caches with less respect and consideration than we would like.

 

Someone will say that it's in our own best interests to get as many people as possible into caching, but I don't believe that at all. See the recent expansion into cellphone caching with NO effort to make sure that these new players do anything except follow an arrow. Not much effort to make sure they understand the rules. NO effort to even get an email address from them, so we can't even talk to them about how this is supposed to work! The result? We all know that the difference between a contributing, compliant member and a drain on the hobby is in the level of 'buy-in' and interest, not whether or not they've plunked down ten bucks for a app.

 

We're always reading and writing about our 'ninja skills', making sure other people on the bike trail or roadside don't take undo notice of us and what we're doing. WHY would I want a municipal webpage to exhort people to come and rifle through my ammo box (which isn't bolted to the tree!) in the name of economic development or civic pride?

 

A set of harried parents with four unruly kids would visit a town where the Chamber of Commerce has distributed lists of local caches to the local motels. "What'll we do with the kids today?" I know, let's go trash these things.

 

Frankly, part of the appeal of this is exactly the closed nature of the community; that's apparent in the joking term we use to refer to people who are not 'in the know'.

 

Please consider the impact on the hobby before you attempt to bend the guidelines to fit your business model. Not everything needs to be developed and exploited.

 

In other words, "Leave us Alone".

 

Just my opinion, for which I'm sure I'll get beaten up.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Finding these poorly placed, unmaintained, empty boxes with nasty writing in the logs will turn people off to your area. "Remember that town? That's where we wasted two hours playing that silly game."

 

Yeah. I remember that series. (Okay a different one.) Not maintained at all. Though, probably not much worse than most caches. I never figured how the city got away wit drilling a hole in the tree in the cemetery. Oh, well.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I appreciate your concerns. I think my comment using the word "sell" may have been slightly misleading. In the area I'm living, my goal in its simplest form is to increase the amount of geocaches available. I fully plan on collaborating with existing geocachers, geocaching groups, Groundspeak, as well as councils, tourism groups and organizations interested to do this. This means introducing geocaching to those who aren't familiar with it, but also explaining the concerns of existing geocachers, the respect of lands caches are hidden on and for property owners.

 

As for my inquiry into commercial caches, I don't seek to bend the rules. I understand they're put in place for a reason. At this point in planning my project, I am performing due diligence and researching answers for potential questions and concerns that people or groups may have.

 

Again, thank you for your comment, as I'm certain other geocachers may voice similar ones as well.

 

 

Well, as long as you're hearing me, I guess we're good. Continue to seek input as you learn about our hobby, and keep asking yourself about the potential effects of any action.

 

Cache on!

...Bill

[+JPreto]

This is one of the subjects that I most talk with my reviewers, and I still can´t draw a line in what is or isn´t commercial.

 

Just going to put out some examples, that if you want I can then give out the cache codes but I would prefer not to:

 

1) A cache is placed inside a park that you must pay a entry fee, clearly you have to interact with the tickets office workers to get inside the business but the cache, is published.

 

2) One cache is placed inside a cafeteria and you must ask the employer to give you the cache (TB Hotel) and the cache is archived.

 

3) A cache is placed inside a cafeteria but you don´t have to interact with the employers is published.

 

4) A cache is placed in a private property that has a precious waterfall but for you to see it you must pay, is published.

 

5) A cache where the name of the cache is the same as the name of a restaurant but the cache is 10m from the front door of the restaurant and the description says: "A nice place to make a pit-stop" is published.

 

I really couldn´t yet figure out the Commercial guidelines... maybe I never will...

[+sbell111]

This is one of the subjects that I most talk with my reviewers, and I still can´t draw a line in what is or isn´t commercial.

 

Just going to put out some examples, that if you want I can then give out the cache codes but I would prefer not to:

 

1) A cache is placed inside a park that you must pay a entry fee, clearly you have to interact with the tickets office workers to get inside the business but the cache, is published.

 

2) One cache is placed inside a cafeteria and you must ask the employer to give you the cache (TB Hotel) and the cache is archived.

 

3) A cache is placed inside a cafeteria but you don´t have to interact with the employers is published.

 

4) A cache is placed in a private property that has a precious waterfall but for you to see it you must pay, is published.

 

5) A cache where the name of the cache is the same as the name of a restaurant but the cache is 10m from the front door of the restaurant and the description says: "A nice place to make a pit-stop" is published.

 

I really couldn´t yet figure out the Commercial guidelines... maybe I never will...

In my mind, the only decision that was questionable based on how I understand that the commercial guideline is being applied is the last one. Generally, I believe that ones like that would be denied.

[+Team Pixos]

Finding these poorly placed, unmaintained, empty boxes with nasty writing in the logs will turn people off to your area. "Remember that town? That's where we wasted two hours playing that silly game."

 

Yeah. I remember that series. (Okay a different one.) Not maintained at all. Though, probably not much worse than most caches. I never figured how the city got away wit drilling a hole in the tree in the cemetery. Oh, well.

 

 

I remember that series too. (Or different one). Geocoin as a prize. Fair amount of driving involved, lousy coordinates and absolutely destroyed areas around caches. After a completely scathing log on my part I quit the series. I couldn't stand to see the damage cachers had left in their wake. Worst I'd ever seen.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Team Pixos

[+narcissa]

When I first started caching, there was a shady outfit around here that would bilk small businesses into giving them money to place a cache near the business. Somehow they managed to skirt the guidelines well enough to get away with it, but it was a real mess. The caches were unmaintained, and shoddy, and I'm sure that some of these businesses were left feeling like they'd really been given the shaft when the whole thing kind of shut down and disappeared into the night.

 

It took a long time before the caches were archived. It was only when their website domain (linked from their cache pages) was abandoned and the links started pointing to something even shiftier that Groundspeak did anything about it. I'm sure half of those caches are still out there.

[Devoc]

I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I assure you, I have no anticipation of letting something like that happen. I hope that by bringing in dedicated community members and geocachers into the project we can add quality geocaches to the surrounding area and ensure the longevity and integrity of the activity.

 

When I first started caching, there was a shady outfit around here that would bilk small businesses into giving them money to place a cache near the business. Somehow they managed to skirt the guidelines well enough to get away with it, but it was a real mess. The caches were unmaintained, and shoddy, and I'm sure that some of these businesses were left feeling like they'd really been given the shaft when the whole thing kind of shut down and disappeared into the night.

 

It took a long time before the caches were archived. It was only when their website domain (linked from their cache pages) was abandoned and the links started pointing to something even shiftier that Groundspeak did anything about it. I'm sure half of those caches are still out there.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I assure you, I have no anticipation of letting something like that happen. I hope that by bringing in dedicated community members and geocachers into the project we can add quality geocaches to the surrounding area and ensure the longevity and integrity of the activity.

 

 

Can you tell us what community you serve?

[+The A-Team]

I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I assure you, I have no anticipation of letting something like that happen. I hope that by bringing in dedicated community members and geocachers into the project we can add quality geocaches to the surrounding area and ensure the longevity and integrity of the activity.

 

Can you tell us what community you serve?

I would consider that a difficulty 1 puzzle.

 

Hint: PYVPX BA GURVE ANZR

[Pup Patrol]

There are plenty of municipalities and tourism organizations using Groundspeak to their advantage. Parks Canada is one of them. Geocoins are often used as bait for geocachers who complete "passports".

 

I much prefer municipalities and historical societies and parks/recreation organizations using the partnering with Groundspeak than banks, insurance companies and novelists.

 

Contact Groundspeak via the links given already, and they will be of much help to you.

 

It's all laid out for you here:

 

Business Partnerships

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.book&id=3

 

Shaved Ewok has done a heck of a job listing geotrails that offer rewards in this thread:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=318659

 

 

B.

[Pup Patrol]

Can you tell us what community you serve?

 

Does it matter?

 

No, it doesn't.

 

 

B.

[Pup Patrol]

I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I assure you, I have no anticipation of letting something like that happen. I hope that by bringing in dedicated community members and geocachers into the project we can add quality geocaches to the surrounding area and ensure the longevity and integrity of the activity.

 

Can you tell us what community you serve?

I would consider that a difficulty 1 puzzle.

 

Hint: PYVPX BA GURVE ANZR

 

Yeah, I think a 1 difficulty is over-rating it.

 

 

 

B.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Pup Patrol

[team tisri]

Finding these poorly placed, unmaintained, empty boxes with nasty writing in the logs will turn people off to your area. "Remember that town? That's where we wasted two hours playing that silly game."

 

Yeah. I remember that series. (Okay a different one.) Not maintained at all. Though, probably not much worse than most caches. I never figured how the city got away wit drilling a hole in the tree in the cemetery. Oh, well.

 

 

I remember that series too. (Or different one). Geocoin as a prize. Fair amount of driving involved, lousy coordinates and absolutely destroyed areas around caches. After a completely scathing log on my part I quit the series. I couldn't stand to see the damage cachers had left in their wake. Worst I'd ever seen.

 

I remember a series in London sponsored by Timberland. They were seriously lame caches - IIRC one was a polystyrene/styrofoam rock and broke because a cacher stepped on it, not realising it was hidden under the pile of leaves. Two were the keysafe-style fake rocks. One was rested in a crevice in a tree, right by a flowerbed that was trampled by the time I went to seek the cache. For me the hardest part of accessing the site was figuring out what was the space between the flowerbeds and what was a trampled flowerbed. The last one had bad coordinates that took people to the middle of a very spiky hawthorn tree that smelled of dog urine, and the cache was finally found in pieces some 100 feet away. From logs relating to comparable series in other European cities it seemed they were no better. I for one struggled to see how it could possibly paint Timberland in a good light.

[Devoc]

With respect to my employer, I will answer that I am working for a municipality in the north of British Columbia, Canada.

 

I'm sorry to hear about that experience. I assure you, I have no anticipation of letting something like that happen. I hope that by bringing in dedicated community members and geocachers into the project we can add quality geocaches to the surrounding area and ensure the longevity and integrity of the activity.

 

 

Can you tell us what community you serve?