BLM wants Oregon Caches removed

[+AKStafford]

Interesting article in the Oregonian:

http://www.oregonlive.com/travel/index.ssf/2014/04/blm_prineville_district_asks_c.html

 

"Semi-permanent stashing of features designed for the outdoor activities of geocaching and letterboxing are targeted for removal from some lands managed by the Prineville District of the Bureau of Land Management.

 

Geocaching and letterboxing are types of outdoor treasure hunting games where participants use global positioning systems or written clues posted on the Internet to find hidden containers. The containers usually are water tight and hold either a sign-in log or a stamp designed by the person who placed it.

 

Back in 2012, the national BLM issued a policy prohibiting placement of physical geocaches in areas designated as wilderness by Congress. Districts were left to devise ways to implement the policy.

 

The Prineville BLM has some relatively heavily used recreation areas due to the proximity of the cities of central Oregon.

 

The Prineville District Office will be working with the local geocaching community to remove approximately 84 physical geocaches that are located in designated wilderness, wilderness study areas, research natural areas and some areas of critical environmental concern. All of these types of lands have formal definitions and boundaries.

 

Of these, 47 will be removed permanently, while 37 will be closed seasonally during annual closures to protect wildlife or other resources.

 

The BLM considers geocaching and letterboxing legitimate uses of public lands, according to Lisa Clark, spokeswoman for the Prineville District, but needs to restrict it on sensitive lands.

 

The activities have become so popular that a steady stream of visitors often creates trails to the site of a hidden container. Though not all public land agencies have developed a restrictive policy, participants in geocaching and letterboxing should assume agencies are moving in that direction.

 

Virtually geocaching is still allowed in Prineville's wilderness and other sensitive areas. The virtual activity has participants finding waypoints, without stashing anything physical to find. Letterboxing features the pursuit of a stamp, so a virtual experience is not as easy to duplicate."

[+tomfuller & Quill]

"Geo trails" leading to physical caches in the Oregon Badlands is a blatant lie put out by Molly Brown of the Prineville BLM.

I own a cache in the Horse Ridge area. It has had 95 finds in the 7 years that it has been there. There is no trail from the parking area to the cache.

I also own a cache in "Crack-in-the-Ground". I would guess that at least 3 times as many people visit the crack as come to look for my cache and Earth Cache.

The myth that virtuals and Earth caches cause any less damage to the environment is just that-a myth.

You will have to visit my Earth Caches on foot to get the answers. Arm chair logs are not accepted.

The day that I went out to hide the cache in the bottom of the crack and gather the info for the questions for the Earth Cache, I met a cow walking out the well established trail.

You can guess what was dropping behind her.

I did send a tweet to Sally Jewell Secretary of the Interior asking that she talk to Molly about geocaching in Central Oregon. I'm hoping that I will get a favorable response soon.

The day that I remove my Stalag 13 Revisited and archive it, I will write an archive note blasting the BLM.

[+Panther&Pine]

"Geo trails" leading to physical caches in the Oregon Badlands is a blatant lie put out by Molly Brown of the Prineville BLM.

I own a cache in the Horse Ridge area. It has had 95 finds in the 7 years that it has been there. There is no trail from the parking area to the cache.

I also own a cache in "Crack-in-the-Ground". I would guess that at least 3 times as many people visit the crack as come to look for my cache and Earth Cache.

The myth that virtuals and Earth caches cause any less damage to the environment is just that-a myth.

You will have to visit my Earth Caches on foot to get the answers. Arm chair logs are not accepted.

The day that I went out to hide the cache in the bottom of the crack and gather the info for the questions for the Earth Cache, I met a cow walking out the well established trail.

You can guess what was dropping behind her.

I did send a tweet to Sally Jewell Secretary of the Interior asking that she talk to Molly about geocaching in Central Oregon. I'm hoping that I will get a favorable response soon.

The day that I remove my Stalag 13 Revisited and archive it, I will write an archive note blasting the BLM.

Instead how about you invite Molly out caching and ask her to find the geocache from the parking area without a GPS. At least in my mind when I hear folks complain about geotrails I envision a path that you can follow to find the cache without a GPS.

[+crs98]

I'm unfamiliar with this area being a Seattle area resident, but did want to point out that the Oregon BLM does allow caching in appropriate areas. It may well be that this area is one of the areas they want protected. See http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreation/geocaching.php for details.

[+_Shaddow_]

"Geo trails" leading to physical caches in the Oregon Badlands is a blatant lie put out by Molly Brown of the Prineville BLM.

I own a cache in the Horse Ridge area. It has had 95 finds in the 7 years that it has been there. There is no trail from the parking area to the cache.

I also own a cache in "Crack-in-the-Ground". I would guess that at least 3 times as many people visit the crack as come to look for my cache and Earth Cache.

The myth that virtuals and Earth caches cause any less damage to the environment is just that-a myth.

You will have to visit my Earth Caches on foot to get the answers. Arm chair logs are not accepted.

The day that I went out to hide the cache in the bottom of the crack and gather the info for the questions for the Earth Cache, I met a cow walking out the well established trail.

You can guess what was dropping behind her.

I did send a tweet to Sally Jewell Secretary of the Interior asking that she talk to Molly about geocaching in Central Oregon. I'm hoping that I will get a favorable response soon.

The day that I remove my Stalag 13 Revisited and archive it, I will write an archive note blasting the BLM.

 

I don't know Molly or why you even bring her up but I've seen lots of geotrails to lots of caches so I'm going to guess that they are out there in places.

 

To me it's obvious that virtuals and ECs would have much less impact since people are poking around the same areas over and over and over again looking for the cache, instead they roam about the general area somewhat randomly. It's the intensive ground beating that causes issues. For example, the ground compacts making it difficult for plants to grow - that is why plants don't grow on trails.

 

How about you don't blast the BLM? You parting shot will only make things harder for the rest of us you leave in your dust

Edited April 24, 2014 by _Shaddow_

[+tomfuller & Quill]

For many years we had an agreement with the Prineville BLM that there would be 13 geocaches within the Badlands RNA. This includes a long standing moving cache called Badlands Post Office. This was fine as long as Gavin (GovBigDog) was in charge of the Prineville BLM. Now the BLM under Molly's direction, wants to get rid of 84 caches.

There are a couple of well established trails developed by the BLM including the Flat Iron Trail that have caches close to them.

I asked for and got permission from the Lakeview BLM office to establish my Crack in the Ground Earth Cache and my Twin Crack Earth Cache. I did not need their permission to put a physical cache in the bottom of Crack in the Ground. I established the Twin Crack Earth Cache after finding a nice ammocan cache deep in the crack.

The last time I talked to Gavin it was to tell him that the gate on the road to my Stalag 13 Revisited cache parking spot had been ripped out by vandals. The BlM chose to leave to road open and not replace the gate.

I know at least 2 geocachers in the Bend area that are more angry than I am about this change in BLM policy.

The USFS has been our friend since the start of geocaching-the BLM not so much.

[+_Shaddow_]

For many years we had an agreement with the Prineville BLM that there would be 13 geocaches within the Badlands RNA. This includes a long standing moving cache called Badlands Post Office. This was fine as long as Gavin (GovBigDog) was in charge of the Prineville BLM. Now the BLM under Molly's direction, wants to get rid of 84 caches.

There are a couple of well established trails developed by the BLM including the Flat Iron Trail that have caches close to them.

I asked for and got permission from the Lakeview BLM office to establish my Crack in the Ground Earth Cache and my Twin Crack Earth Cache. I did not need their permission to put a physical cache in the bottom of Crack in the Ground. I established the Twin Crack Earth Cache after finding a nice ammocan cache deep in the crack.

The last time I talked to Gavin it was to tell him that the gate on the road to my Stalag 13 Revisited cache parking spot had been ripped out by vandals. The BlM chose to leave to road open and not replace the gate.

I know at least 2 geocachers in the Bend area that are more angry than I am about this change in BLM policy.

The USFS has been our friend since the start of geocaching-the BLM not so much.

 

The only difference appears to be in the personalities between Gavin and Molly. Your issue is with Molly at the BLM, not the BLM.

 

Can you still reach GovBigDog? Maybe he can help you figure out how to deal with this new person. You may need to go above her head to her supervisor.

 

We had a very similar issue a few years ago in Bellevue where a young new hire was trying to make a name for herself etc and caused all kinds of issues. After getting her supervisor involved then things calmed down and eventually returned to normal. In the end, things were a bit different, but for the better.

 

A pain to be sure. But deal with it is the way to go, rather than taking one's ball and going home

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I just left a phone message with Mike Haske who is the BLM Deputy Director for Resource Planning, Use & Protection.

I'm hoping this will be resolved before the ordered removal date in June is reached.

I'm still waiting for Secretary Jewell to get back to me.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

From today's Bend Bulletin: http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/environment/2014645-151/blm-to-remove-geocaches-from-bend-area-wilderness

Yoleen (aka Floydette) is a friend of mine. I found out that Gavin still works for the BLM but now has 2 new female bosses.

[+_Shaddow_]

but now has 2 new female bosses.

 

Not sure why you bring that up and I'm afraid to ask

 

From the article:

The Bureau of Land Management’s Prineville District Office last week announced it is working with geocachers to have geocaches removed from the Badlands, Spring Basin and Lower White River wilderness areas, as well as land on nearby Horse Ridge and other lands deemed environmentally sensitive. Along with wilderness areas the lands have titles like “research natural areas” and “areas of critical environmental concern.” The removal follows nationwide BLM policy, banning geocache containers from wilderness areas.

 

“Geocaching is absolutely a legitimate use of public land, but it’s inappropriate in wilderness areas,” Carol Benkosky, Prineville BLM district manager, said in the press release announcing the removal of the geocaches.

 

Seems very reasonable.

 

In all, the BLM plans to permanently remove 47 geocaches in Central Oregon and seasonally close 37 geocaches, meaning a total of 84 will be affected by the changes.

 

Not very many caches, really. Though I understand that if you're the CO of one of the caches then it's much different and feels very personal.

 

Hopefully you can work something out with them

[Mr.Yuck]

In the locked thread in Geocaching topics, I am responding the to last post by JHolly, where he links to BLM Policy in designated wilderness areas. I cannot quote him, as the topic is locked. I had said I could find NO NATIONAL POLICY on caches not being allowed in designated wilderness areas, and I was of the opinion the caches were being removed because of overzealous local managers (whom, incidently, felt the need to issue a press release regarding the removal of Geocaches; when have you ever seen that before?)

 

The national policy has the language quoted below, which obviously addresses designated wilderness areas, but does not ban caches in them. It actually, in my opinion, suggests allowing them with a "letter of agreement".

 

If you determine the use to be casual but have some concern about the use, such as, placing the caches in Congressionally designated wilderness or wilderness study areas, at cultural resource sites, at areas with threatened or endangered species, or any other special fragile area, it would be appropriate to issue a “letter of agreement” with special stipulations attached that would address those concerns.

[jholly]

In the locked thread in Geocaching topics, I am responding the to last post by JHolly, where he links to BLM Policy in designated wilderness areas. I cannot quote him, as the topic is locked. I had said I could find NO NATIONAL POLICY on caches not being allowed in designated wilderness areas, and I was of the opinion the caches were being removed because of overzealous local managers (whom, incidently, felt the need to issue a press release regarding the removal of Geocaches; when have you ever seen that before?)

 

The national policy has the language quoted below, which obviously addresses designated wilderness areas, but does not ban caches in them. It actually, in my opinion, suggests allowing them with a "letter of agreement".

 

If you determine the use to be casual but have some concern about the use, such as, placing the caches in Congressionally designated wilderness or wilderness study areas, at cultural resource sites, at areas with threatened or endangered species, or any other special fragile area, it would be appropriate to issue a “letter of agreement” with special stipulations attached that would address those concerns.

 

The WA/OR region website, and other region websites on geocaching specifically mention not placing geocaches in wilderness areas. Not placing geocaches in designated wilderness areas is also consistent with USFS geocaching policy. My interpretation is there was a management change and the present management has decided to not allow caching in wilderness areas per the paragraph prior to what you cited

 

Policy/Action:

A special recreation permit (SRP) is not required if the geocaching activity complies with casual use conditions. The following conditions apply to casual use: the activity is not a commercial endeavor, the activity complies with land use decisions and designations, (i.e., special area designations and wilderness interim management policy),and it does not award cash prizes, is not publicly advertised, poses minimal risk for damage to public land or related water

resource values, and generally requires no monitoring.

 

I would not really call the management overzealous but rather management not inclined to allow caches in wilderness areas per policy. It has not been mentioned, so I will assume that there was no prior letter of agreement issued but rather only a verbal agreement. Some times, even between friends, it is best to document things. As for the press release, what better way is there the get the message out so there are no future problems.

 

Actually the BLM policy is generous beyond fault where if the local management is inclined to allow geocaches in a wilderness area it can be allowed with special permission. USFS policy simply does not allow that latitude of freedom.

 

I put it down to a change in management and a change in interpretation of existing policy.

[4wheelin_fool]

Here is a thread from 9 years ago which says they were banning them at that time. Are they now being banned a second time? Or has it taken them 9 years to figure something out?

[+_Shaddow_]

Here is a thread from 9 years ago which says they were banning them at that time. Are they now being banned a second time? Or has it taken them 9 years to figure something out?

 

I'm sure that you've never revisited any of your decisions

[+GeoCrater]

In all, the BLM plans to permanently remove 47 geocaches in Central Oregon and seasonally close 37 geocaches, meaning a total of 84 will be affected by the changes.

 

Not very many caches, really. Though I understand that if you're the CO of one of the caches then it's much different and feels very personal.

 

Hopefully you can work something out with them

 

The Oregon Reviewers are working with the cache owners in the areas impacted (where caches have been requested to be removed). We will do what we can to facilitate the movement of caches to an alternate location outside of the restricted areas.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I'm still looking for the virtuals that the BLM says are in there. Tell me again how walking to a virtual (and back) makes any less of a "geotrail".

The BLM established trails within the Badlands long before geocaching was invented.

I do have two Earth Caches on BLM land (Lakeview District) that I got permission from the BLM to publish. Each of my Earth caches has a physical cache associated with it.

Neither I nor Mel Tupper had to get permission to put in a physical cache in the Lakeview District.

I fully support the seasonal closure of Dry Canyon to protect the nesting birds.

I suggest that anyone that wants to try to stop this abuse of power call Mike Haske (or Doc Shepard) in the Portland office of the BLM.

[+_Shaddow_]

I'm still looking for the virtuals that the BLM says are in there. Tell me again how walking to a virtual (and back) makes any less of a "geotrail".

The BLM established trails within the Badlands long before geocaching was invented.

I do have two Earth Caches on BLM land (Lakeview District) that I got permission from the BLM to publish. Each of my Earth caches has a physical cache associated with it.

Neither I nor Mel Tupper had to get permission to put in a physical cache in the Lakeview District.

I fully support the seasonal closure of Dry Canyon to protect the nesting birds.

I suggest that anyone that wants to try to stop this abuse of power call Mike Haske (or Doc Shepard) in the Portland office of the BLM.

 

No. Tell me how virtuals have the same impact.

 

Your Earth caches obviously aren't virtuals but physical caches. If they're in the area of concern the they should be removed. They may not have asked you to remove them for a very reasonable reason, that they didn't know that there are physical elements to what is almost always a virtual cache.

 

It seems to me that they are attempting to do their job of protecting sensitive areas. I don't see any abuse of power but rather a normal and healthy use of it. I understand that they've made a not unreasonable decision based on their charter that has directly impacted you and you don't like it. Instead what I see is a person who is angry that they can't put their personal agenda in front of the greater good.

 

Should I still call them? I can tell them that I think they are doing a good job with OUR land and make them aware of the physical caches that you're being sneaky about?

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Go ahead Make my day!

My Earth Caches are Earth Caches in every sense of the word. I put my physical cache in the bottom of Crack in the Ground in a place where GPS signals don't reach so that people that are doing the Earth Cache will know that they are at the correct place to answer the questions. Several people have not found the peanut butter jar but have correctly answered the Earth Cache questions.

For my second Earth Cache I was the second finder of Mel Tuppers nice ammocan cache in Twin Crack. My Earth Cache long description is a full geology lesson with two simple questions from me and you have to answer one of the geology professor's questions.

The BLM developed the trail from the parking area out to Crack in the Ground. At least 5 times as many "ordinary folks" visit Crack in the Ground as geocachers to log the Earth Cache.

Whether you walk out to lift a rock to find a geocache or walk out and lift a rock to answer a question about the geology of an area, you are doing the same amount of damage to the environment which is negligible IMO.

When I was walking out to Crack in the ground with my peanut butter jar to develop the questions for the Earth Cache I met a cow coming out. She was leaving a lot more than footprints behind her. Mr. Bishop of the Lakeview BLM district had no problem with me hiding the peanut butter jar to aid with getting to the proper spot.

[+_Shaddow_]

Go ahead Make my day!

My Earth Caches are Earth Caches in every sense of the word. I put my physical cache in the bottom of Crack in the Ground in a place where GPS signals don't reach so that people that are doing the Earth Cache will know that they are at the correct place to answer the questions. Several people have not found the peanut butter jar but have correctly answered the Earth Cache questions.

For my second Earth Cache I was the second finder of Mel Tuppers nice ammocan cache in Twin Crack. My Earth Cache long description is a full geology lesson with two simple questions from me and you have to answer one of the geology professor's questions.

The BLM developed the trail from the parking area out to Crack in the Ground. At least 5 times as many "ordinary folks" visit Crack in the Ground as geocachers to log the Earth Cache.

Whether you walk out to lift a rock to find a geocache or walk out and lift a rock to answer a question about the geology of an area, you are doing the same amount of damage to the environment which is negligible IMO.

When I was walking out to Crack in the ground with my peanut butter jar to develop the questions for the Earth Cache I met a cow coming out. She was leaving a lot more than footprints behind her. Mr. Bishop of the Lakeview BLM district had no problem with me hiding the peanut butter jar to aid with getting to the proper spot.

 

What are the gc codes?

Edited May 12, 2014 by _Shaddow_

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Go ahead Make my day!

My Earth Caches are Earth Caches in every sense of the word. I put my physical cache in the bottom of Crack in the Ground in a place where GPS signals don't reach so that people that are doing the Earth Cache will know that they are at the correct place to answer the questions. Several people have not found the peanut butter jar but have correctly answered the Earth Cache questions.

For my second Earth Cache I was the second finder of Mel Tuppers nice ammocan cache in Twin Crack. My Earth Cache long description is a full geology lesson with two simple questions from me and you have to answer one of the geology professor's questions.

The BLM developed the trail from the parking area out to Crack in the Ground. At least 5 times as many "ordinary folks" visit Crack in the Ground as geocachers to log the Earth Cache.

Whether you walk out to lift a rock to find a geocache or walk out and lift a rock to answer a question about the geology of an area, you are doing the same amount of damage to the environment which is negligible IMO.

When I was walking out to Crack in the ground with my peanut butter jar to develop the questions for the Earth Cache I met a cow coming out. She was leaving a lot more than footprints behind her. Mr. Bishop of the Lakeview BLM district had no problem with me hiding the peanut butter jar to aid with getting to the proper spot.

 

What are the gc codes?

(Earth Cache) Crack in the Ground GC31WJJ Cache in Crack in the Ground GC31VYX Twin Fault Earthcache GC38DW0 Twin Fault GC2Z8QM owner MelTupper

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Madjack and bulldog removed their cache Bye Bye Badlands GCMJA5 but have not archived it yet. If you want to know how others feel about the local BLM management, please read the final log and look at the pictures.

Skadog will be removing most of the remaining caches on June 1, 7 or 8.

I really liked the picture of the rusty old cans put there by the US Army decades ago.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Meanwhile, back in the Oregon Badlands a charter member removed his caches yesterday. As of 0900 PDT this morning all caches in the Badlands and in a "Research" area south of US 20 were to have been removed. I know quite well that there are still containers (perhaps now archived) within the boundaries. I am seriously considering putting an ammocan inside the Badlands and never asking for Groundspeak to publish it.

In about 10 years I'll reveal its' location on the Oregon Geocaching site if it still exists.

The charter member mentioned above is going to start asking some serious questions under the Freedom of Information Act of the Prineville BLM.

I gave him a good question to ask: How much income did the BLM (DOI) get from cattle grazing rights inside this so called "Wilderness"?

I said that there is almost as much bovine manure in the Badlands as there is BS coming out of Prineville.