Benefits of Premium Only?

January 13, 2017

I've been a basic member since March as I don't really feel the need for premium as I can log any cache outside of a D/T-1 through the website. The light green dot still appears where the cache is, the only thing I lose is the distance to the cache and the orange indicator telling me the direction. Also I am not a FTF hunter as I've already found my first and don't feel I need more really so the "newest cache" feature isn't overly useful to me, nor is the "best cache" feature as I enjoy the surprise of finding great caches. And it's interesting seeing my stats, but not necessary for my enjoyment...

All this leads to my question - What exactly is the point of making certain caches "premium only"? I think it takes away from the enjoyment for those who either can't afford premium or just don't see the need for it like myself. I also used my trial up just out of curiosity, so premium caches I've previously logged, I can no longer go back and read new logs for. Why, as the CO, would you want to take away the enjoyment of finding your cache simply because one does not have premium? I just don't get it! Maybe I'm missing something here so I would appreciate some input.

Edited January 13, 2017 by DaNerdling

7.4k · January 13, 2017

Some people believe that it protects their caches from being mistreated. Others seem to delight in the "audit log." It's not common where I live and it's not something I would ever use.

1.9k · January 13, 2017

I make heavy use of pocket queries to fill my GPS, and notifications also. The premium membership cost is probably the cheapest part of our caching expenses, we burn that much fuel every month I suspect! I'm happy to not have to wade through reams of ads everytime I come to the site, so am happy to pay up. I don't go to work for free, and don't expect Groundspeak to either.....

January 13, 2017

Some people believe that it protects their caches from being mistreated. Others seem to delight in the "audit log." It's not common where I live and it's not something I would ever use.

I never thought about it like that before, I guess caches you spent a lot of time setting up would be rather important to you, and some first time users don't quite "get it". Interesting input, thank you.

I make heavy use of pocket queries to fill my GPS, and notifications also. The premium membership cost is probably the cheapest part of our caching expenses, we burn that much fuel every month I suspect! I'm happy to not have to wade through reams of ads everytime I come to the site, so am happy to pay up. I don't go to work for free, and don't expect Groundspeak to either.....

I'm not arguing the benefits of the membership itself as it is beneficial to lots of people, just not for me. I just wanted to know why CO's make some of their caches premium only when not everyone is a member. As a CO of a handful of caches, I want everyone to be able to enjoy them, not just a select few.

5.7k · January 13, 2017

I made my listings PMO when the intro app first came out, after a rash of newbies trashing GZ, posting NM or NA because they could not find my cache, things of that nature.

The area where I live has lot's of PMO listings, and they are also some of the best local geocaches.

I used to strongly dislike PMO listings and paid my premium membership to get the added perks from the Waymarking site.

Now, PMO has worked out so much better for me as a cache owner.

1.9k · January 13, 2017

Not sure - maybe after a CO goes to a lot of effort, expends a bunch of time and money to make a great cache container, they are happy for birthday parties of kids/bunches of teens etc to not come along and destroy it....

10.1k · January 13, 2017

Some people believe that it protects their caches from being mistreated. Others seem to delight in the "audit log." It's not common where I live and it's not something I would ever use.

I never thought about it like that before, I guess caches you spent a lot of time setting up would be rather important to you, and some first time users don't quite "get it". Interesting input, thank you.

I make heavy use of pocket queries to fill my GPS, and notifications also. The premium membership cost is probably the cheapest part of our caching expenses, we burn that much fuel every month I suspect! I'm happy to not have to wade through reams of ads everytime I come to the site, so am happy to pay up. I don't go to work for free, and don't expect Groundspeak to either.....

I'm not arguing the benefits of the membership itself as it is beneficial to lots of people, just not for me. I just wanted to know why CO's make some of their caches premium only when not everyone is a member. As a CO of a handful of caches, I want everyone to be able to enjoy them, not just a select few.

That, of course, is your prerogative. And my prerogative to protect my caches from newbies on phone apps who have no idea what geocaching is about. And that has become a problem since the phone apps were introduced.

4.4k · January 13, 2017

takes away from the enjoyment

declines to add to the enjoyment

3.4k · January 13, 2017

That, of course, is your prerogative. And my prerogative to protect my caches from newbies on phone apps who have no idea what geocaching is about. And that has become a problem since the phone apps were introduced.

Some of my caches I made PMO, some I rated as D=2.0, some I made puzzles; some I made PMO puzzles.

All of these tactics were to keep them off the radar of "muggles with apps" mainly kids who come across the app on their phones and look at it to see what is nearby, then go look for the cache with absolutely no knowledge of what they are supposed to do when they find it--eg, keep it, hide it somewhere else, etc.

2k · January 14, 2017

It used to be people had to make an investment of time, money, and research to find out about geocaching, and start. You had to spend a couple hundred dollars or more to buy a handheld GPS. If you had the equipment and the knowledge, you were likely already somewhat committed to the game.

Flash forward a dozen years or so, and now every 10 year old with a smart phone and no money can easily start. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. If I have a special cache, or difficult to maintain cache, I don't want people that have not invested the time researching the game going out and destroying my cache either accidentally or intentionally.

Every so often we'll have a cache bandit go through the area, and we believe it's usually a young kid based on the notes they leave when they destroy a cache. Making it premium makes it harder for them to find it with the free app, as kids aren't going to invest $30 to go destroy boxes in the woods.

1.5k · January 15, 2017

It used to be people had to make an investment of time, money, and research to find out about geocaching, and start. You had to spend a couple hundred dollars or more to buy a handheld GPS. If you had the equipment and the knowledge, you were likely already somewhat committed to the game.

Flash forward a dozen years or so, and now every 10 year old with a smart phone and no money can easily start. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. If I have a special cache, or difficult to maintain cache, I don't want people that have not invested the time researching the game going out and destroying my cache either accidentally or intentionally.

Every so often we'll have a cache bandit go through the area, and we believe it's usually a young kid based on the notes they leave when they destroy a cache. Making it premium makes it harder for them to find it with the free app, as kids aren't going to invest $30 to go destroy boxes in the woods.

I absolutely agree!

I have some caches that took a lot of work to make, and I select whether or not I make them PMO sometimes based on how difficult they are to get to. Easier, PMO. Farther away from urban areas, I'll usually leave them for everyone.

Edited January 15, 2017 by BC & MsKitty

11.6k · January 15, 2017

question - What exactly is the point of making certain caches "premium only"? I think it takes away from the enjoyment for those who either can't afford premium or just don't see the need for it like myself.

Non-PMO does not automatically create more caches for you. My caches could not exist if not PMO.

I place caches where others have tried and failed. The caches were messed with, stolen. So one of mine is now aggressively hidden, a Multi (with Chirp), and PMO. Each aspect of this cache was selected for a reason: To keep it a quiet cache, less found and of course not found muggled. Not everyone and his monkey is assaulting the place all the time, and in exchange, a cacher discovers it exactly as I intend. The plan worked.

You may opt to go hunt these special caches with a paying member. Check the Difficulty rating, since PMO is not the only thing keeping the cache quiet. But when people who place these caches are paying for your enjoyment, please allow them alone to decide how their caches are set up.

Edited January 15, 2017 by kunarion

11.6k · January 15, 2017

I select whether or not I make them PMO sometimes based on how difficult they are to get to. Easier, PMO. Farther away from urban areas, I'll usually leave them for everyone.

+1

My caches that are .100000009 miles into the woods (some even further... Yikes!) are rarely hunted. I have very few PMO caches. When I post a note that I'm considering making such a cache non-PMO, veteran cachers suggest I don't. I respect their opinion. Same thing with D-T ratings (I seem to be always way off on those :anicute: ).

Some of my least-found caches are just a few steps into the woods, in areas where crowds of kids often are. If Non-PMO, the cache is gone. PMO, it's in great shape and ready to be found. If you can find it. :anibad:

Edited January 15, 2017 by kunarion

January 15, 2017

I have personally witnessed caches being trashed so I'm starting to see the point behind it. I have seen however film canisters made into PMO so I'm not sure I fully agree yet but I am starting to see why a lot do it. This is why I asked, because now I know. Thanks guys

1.5k · January 15, 2017

I have personally witnessed caches being trashed so I'm starting to see the point behind it. I have seen however film canisters made into PMO so I'm not sure I fully agree yet but I am starting to see why a lot do it. This is why I asked, because now I know. Thanks guys

It's not always just because the cache took a lot of effort to do. Even film canisters are a pain to maintain if they are constantly getting taken because of perceived people with apps not knowing enough about the game to even leave the container for the next searcher.

5.7k · January 15, 2017

I have personally witnessed caches being trashed so I'm starting to see the point behind it.

Just wait until you lose your first ammo can. :laughing:

3.8k · January 15, 2017

For me, the main reason is using PQ's. I have something near 30 active right now.

Before GS decided to let Non-Premimum members get away with logging PM caches, the PMO feature was useful. It did help protect caches that were expensive or very difficult to put together from a lot of "issues". Now that the PMO feature is nothing more than a joke--and a crappy one at that, I've pretty much stopped investing the $$ and time to build nicer containers.

2.7k · January 15, 2017

I like seeing these threads on PM advantages come up from time to time. Reason is we went Premium right from the start (5 years ago) so we don't really know what it is like to be member only.

From what I read in these threads we are happy to be PM.

We don't seem to have much of a problem with one-day-whiz app users in our area and many new cachers seem to be stumping up for Premium after only a few finds.

January 16, 2017

It used to be people had to make an investment of time, money, and research to find out about geocaching, and start. You had to spend a couple hundred dollars or more to buy a handheld GPS. If you had the equipment and the knowledge, you were likely already somewhat committed to the game.

Flash forward a dozen years or so, and now every 10 year old with a smart phone and no money can easily start. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. If I have a special cache, or difficult to maintain cache, I don't want people that have not invested the time researching the game going out and destroying my cache either accidentally or intentionally.

Every so often we'll have a cache bandit go through the area, and we believe it's usually a young kid based on the notes they leave when they destroy a cache. Making it premium makes it harder for them to find it with the free app, as kids aren't going to invest $30 to go destroy boxes in the woods.

I agree 100%. App crap also allows newbies with phones to hide caches with terrible coordinates. The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.

Edited January 16, 2017 by rustynails.

5.7k · January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Edited January 16, 2017 by rustynails.

5.7k · January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

My understanding is that you need a cell tower to know your tracking. Your phone can't get a direct satellite signal to guide you. Maybe you use a Compass or the stars?

5.7k · January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

My understanding is that you need a cell tower to know your tracking. Your phone can't get a direct satellite signal to guide you. Maybe you use a Compass or the stars?

No, but I'm thinking that you know little or nothing about using a smartphone for geocaching. I hope that don't sound rude, I don't mean it to be.

Phones have GPS built in, some geocaching apps work offline. I can view the stored cache pages, and navigate to a geocache using the phones GPS.

2.7k · January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

My understanding is that you need a cell tower to know your tracking. Your phone can't get a direct satellite signal to guide you. Maybe you use a Compass or the stars?

I think your knowledge base needs upgrading as modern phones can use satelite GPS when offline. I have a Nokia Lumia and it uses GLONASS as well as GPS satelites. Having said that I prefer my Etrex 20 and only use my phone occasionally, its a personal preference.

There are plenty of threads on this forum re Phone vs GPS where you can research further.

January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

My understanding is that you need a cell tower to know your tracking. Your phone can't get a direct satellite signal to guide you. Maybe you use a Compass or the stars?

Welcome to the geocaching forums circa 4 years ago. You will find many, many threads comparing caching with a dedicated unit with caching with a phone.

You will also find the threads (like the apps) have evolved to the point where one isn't particularly better than the other, both have their positives and both have their negatives.

2.4k · January 16, 2017

I guess it depends on what your goals are. Mine were simple. Make the experience fun and interesting for everyone, especially new cachers. PMO's just didn't fit with what I wanted to accomplish.

14k · January 16, 2017

The hand held gps loaded with a pq is the way to go for most experienced cachers.[/b]

I have to disagree. I like my phone apps better than a GPS unit for geocaching.

That's too bad, you'll miss wonderful adventures like this one https://coord.info/GC2XXZG . Boundary waters wilderness area with NO cell phone reception. Although there's a trail you still want your trusty handheld gps for safety.

Well, no. I can store the caches for offline use, I don't have to have cell service. I can run PQ's and store them on my phone, it does so much more than just a GPS unit.

My understanding is that you need a cell tower to know your tracking. Your phone can't get a direct satellite signal to guide you. Maybe you use a Compass or the stars?

Welcome to the geocaching forums circa 4 years ago. You will find many, many threads comparing caching with a dedicated unit with caching with a phone.

You will also find the threads (like the apps) have evolved to the point where one isn't particularly better than the other, both have their positives and both have their negatives.

I use both a GPS and a Smart phone at different times. One things that I have found is that with my GPS, if I know I am planning on using it to finds some geocaches, that I have to download the caches in the area, and make sure I have the maps on it that I'll use before I leave. Then I'll have all the data I need to go look for a few caches. With a smart phone, most of the time, one can just run an app, search for nearby caches, and it will load the cache data and maps in real time, and it becomes a habit to expect it to work that way. However, if I get to a place where I can't get cellular data, the app isn't going to connect to the server, so I won't get any cache data or maps, and I won't know if there is cellular data or not until I get to where I'm going to try and find a cache. Yes, one can download cache data and maps for offline use before going out, but that's not a habit one is likely to have when it's something one usually doesn't have to do.

7.3k · January 16, 2017

:blink:

How did a question about PMO caches turn into yet another debate about phone versus gps?

B.

5.7k · January 16, 2017

How did a question about PMO caches turn into yet another debate about phone versus gps?

B.

Well, I'm not sure. But Groundspeak's app is not very useful for basic members, and I do believe that most of us that own PMO listings cited that we made our listings PMO because of phone cachers. :unsure:

Maybe you can get this thread back on topic? :anibad:

Benefits of Premium Only?

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