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Is it illegal to put trail cams out near your caches ?


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Just wondering peoples thoughts on this subject. I'm thinking of adding a trail cam out in front of my next cache placement. I think it would be kinda fun to see peoples reactions and what not . it also may deter cache thieves in the process.

 

Is it ok to mount a trail cam as long as its posted in the cache description ? Any incite is greatly appreciated !

 

Glenn37216

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Just wondering peoples thoughts on this subject. I'm thinking of adding a trail cam out in front of my next cache placement. I think it would be kinda fun to see peoples reactions and what not . it also may deter cache thieves in the process

Making 'em pmo didn't help?

I'd worry more of the big-bucks camera than a container.

With some of the bells and whistles folks talk of weighing down their backpacks, I'd think more than one'd have a pair of bolt cutters. :laughing:

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Which cache? I've been looking for a game camers and if I found one while caching it would save me some money. :laughing:

Took game camera, left hi-bounce ball. TFTC

 

Yeah, I know you both are kidding, but game cam theft is a bit like geocache maggotry. I know that some people do not like them out there, but just because someone doesn't like something placed legally in the woods, it doesn't give them any right to steal it. It really doesn't matter if its a game camera, geocache, or bicycle. Out of the three, the geocache is the only one that doesn't have much value and is unlikely to be investigated with any seriousness by the police. Its also the one which causes the most impact due to frequent visitors.

 

If a hunter reads these comments, and believes that geocachers take game cameras, they may just blame their own missing cameras on cachers and cause some problems. In NJ we have had several incidents with hunters stealing caches out of WMAs and leaving notes saying that geocachers do not pay any fees, so they should not be there. I really cannot think of any reason why they would do this, unless they believed that geocachers were disturbing, and/or taking their tree stands and cameras. Although incidents like that are most likely caused by other hunters, the impression that cachers are responsible is the only catalyst needed to create problems. Its also easier for them to believe that it wasn't one of their own doing it, but an outside group.

 

A few months ago I discovered a game cam in a state forest nearby and luckily I had my laptop with me. I took the card out and looked at the pictures and saw that it was placed by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection from the logo on the door of the pickup in the first few frames. I placed it back (after deleting a few pictures of myself). :)

 

Although it would be nice to warn people about the presence of cameras, many don't read cache pages anymore and other people doing other activities could not be warned either. If they are placed to determine who is doing any theft, then it really should not be on the page at all.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Do you own the property you'd like to place this game cam?

Another mentioned "placed legally in the woods", well you wouldn't really know that unless you ask the landowner.

A few are kidding now, but a lotta people head for the woods to get away from the rat race a bit, maybe already having their mugs on everything from traffic cams to their corner ATM.

Now they can't expect to have any privacy in the woods?

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Do you own the property you'd like to place this game cam?

Another mentioned "placed legally in the woods", well you wouldn't really know that unless you ask the landowner.

A few are kidding now, but a lotta people head for the woods to get away from the rat race a bit, maybe already having their mugs on everything from traffic cams to their corner ATM.

Now they can't expect to have any privacy in the woods?

 

I've sometimes pondered whether I've caused someone to require PTSD counselling after taking a nature break slightly off-trail in the woods, and only afterwards wondered if someone had mounted a camera there.

 

If I were to leave a camera somewhere I wouldn't post the fact it was there and within a short distance of known coordinates. That really would be an invitation to thieves - while a PMO cache would mean only premium members could read the description, it wouldn't stop someone from buying a three-month membership (or using the free membership from a GPS serial number) to download a bunch of pocket queries to find where the largest caches were, then saving the information to (ab)use later.

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A few months ago I discovered a game cam in a state forest nearby and luckily I had my laptop with me. I took the card out and looked at the pictures and saw that it was placed by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection from the logo on the door of the pickup in the first few frames. I placed it back (after deleting a few pictures of myself). :)

 

And you didn't take the opportunity to upload a few other juicy photos to the web cam?

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A few months ago I discovered a game cam in a state forest nearby and luckily I had my laptop with me. I took the card out and looked at the pictures and saw that it was placed by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection from the logo on the door of the pickup in the first few frames. I placed it back (after deleting a few pictures of myself). :)

 

And you didn't take the opportunity to upload a few other juicy photos to the web cam?

 

With a little photoshop trickery you could really have had a field day with it - pictures of Elvis riding Shergar past the camera, chased by Bigfoot or something. Maybe an alien craft touching down and a little green man poking at the box the camera was in before going back to the craft and taking off again.

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I have encountered one or 2 game cameras near caches.I usually select an approach that will not present my fac e to the camera and get out of there as quickly as possible. I have also encountered one or 2 hunters on tree stands. They are difficult to see if you'r looking at your GPS.

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

I'e encountered a couple of cameras near caches. I tend to "gesture" towards them, pass on the cache, leave a note on the cache page, then put it on my ignore list. I don't do this activity for others' entertainment.

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

 

Except not all of these cameras are being used in the woods and I was not referring to laws affecting the person being photographed. Some locales have laws against secretive photography of others. I think "intent" is a big factor here. A game cam in the woods that just happens to snap a person passing by on a game trail is one thing. Placing one somewhere in a public place to intentionally and secretly take pics of people is another.

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Is it ok to mount a trail cam as long as its posted in the cache description ?

 

Depends on where you do this and what the local laws are. For example over here in Germany it's not allowed by law. Fines can go up to 50,000 €.

 

Apart from that, I don't like being spyed on by a cache owner. How and when I find a cache, how I look and who is with me, is none of your business.

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

 

Except not all of these cameras are being used in the woods and I was not referring to laws affecting the person being photographed. Some locales have laws against secretive photography of others. I think "intent" is a big factor here. A game cam in the woods that just happens to snap a person passing by on a game trail is one thing. Placing one somewhere in a public place to intentionally and secretly take pics of people is another.

Yep. Who's behind it, hunter, cacher, perv or pedophile?

- 'Course there aren't any pervs or pedos in geocaching...

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

 

Except not all of these cameras are being used in the woods and I was not referring to laws affecting the person being photographed. Some locales have laws against secretive photography of others. I think "intent" is a big factor here. A game cam in the woods that just happens to snap a person passing by on a game trail is one thing. Placing one somewhere in a public place to intentionally and secretly take pics of people is another.

Yep. Who's behind it, hunter, cacher, perv or pedophile?

- 'Course there aren't any pervs or pedos in geocaching...

 

That's a bit of rather extreme paranoia. With the amount of coins and ammo cans going missing in some areas, I don't think that a game camera in the middle of nowhere at a cache site would be imagined by anyone to be placed by a pedophile or pervert. I also don't think that anyone should be peeing anywhere near ground zero. Nobody wants the smell, or to be rooting through urine stained objects to find a cache. I know that some may be overly concerned and paranoid about someone laughing at their miniscule bit of relief, but you really should find another spot to go if you are that worried. :D And that wont guarantee that you wont be captured on a hunter or DEP cam either...

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

 

Except not all of these cameras are being used in the woods and I was not referring to laws affecting the person being photographed. Some locales have laws against secretive photography of others. I think "intent" is a big factor here. A game cam in the woods that just happens to snap a person passing by on a game trail is one thing. Placing one somewhere in a public place to intentionally and secretly take pics of people is another.

Yep. Who's behind it, hunter, cacher, perv or pedophile?

- 'Course there aren't any pervs or pedos in geocaching...

 

That's a bit of rather extreme paranoia. With the amount of coins and ammo cans going missing in some areas, I don't think that a game camera in the middle of nowhere at a cache site would be imagined by anyone to be placed by a pedophile or pervert. I also don't think that anyone should be peeing anywhere near ground zero. Nobody wants the smell, or to be rooting through urine stained objects to find a cache. I know that some may be overly concerned and paranoid about someone laughing at their miniscule bit of relief, but you really should find another spot to go if you are that worried. :D And that wont guarantee that you wont be captured on a hunter or DEP cam either...

Not paranoid at all. Heck, I learned about bronies and furries on this site. :huh:

- So many people playing, it's sensible.

This isn't only about "peeing in the woods" either.

Edited by cerberus1
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A few months ago I discovered a game cam in a state forest nearby and luckily I had my laptop with me. I took the card out and looked at the pictures and saw that it was placed by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection from the logo on the door of the pickup in the first few frames. I placed it back (after deleting a few pictures of myself). :)

 

And you didn't take the opportunity to upload a few other juicy photos to the web cam?

 

With a little photoshop trickery you could really have had a field day with it - pictures of Elvis riding Shergar past the camera, chased by Bigfoot or something. Maybe an alien craft touching down and a little green man poking at the box the camera was in before going back to the craft and taking off again.

 

Here's a photo from the listing of one my caches. The cache is called Area 51: Shindagin Hollow

 

5bea6edf-b398-42a3-b5b6-c4e51185f1f0.jpg

 

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The word "legally" is a good choice. You may want to check with local authorities. Some places have laws against, or regulating the use, of such things.

 

The courts have held that there is no expectation of privacy in a public area. It would be an interesting court challenge to argue that privacy is expected in the woods, though I doubt it would go very far from the same government that has been tapping phone lines and collecting emails without any warrants or probable cause. I don't think anyone caught peeing would be charged with indecent exposure, but you never know.

 

Except not all of these cameras are being used in the woods and I was not referring to laws affecting the person being photographed. Some locales have laws against secretive photography of others. I think "intent" is a big factor here. A game cam in the woods that just happens to snap a person passing by on a game trail is one thing. Placing one somewhere in a public place to intentionally and secretly take pics of people is another.

Yep. Who's behind it, hunter, cacher, perv or pedophile?

- 'Course there aren't any pervs or pedos in geocaching...

 

That's a bit of rather extreme paranoia. With the amount of coins and ammo cans going missing in some areas, I don't think that a game camera in the middle of nowhere at a cache site would be imagined by anyone to be placed by a pedophile or pervert. I also don't think that anyone should be peeing anywhere near ground zero. Nobody wants the smell, or to be rooting through urine stained objects to find a cache.

 

Of course this assumes the only people who might be there are geocachers. Someone going for a hike in the woods who ducked a few feet off the trail to take a nature break could end up peeing all over the cache without even knowing it was there. Wild animals are unlikely to be too concerned if the tree they mark is the hiding spot for a sandwich box.

 

I know that some may be overly concerned and paranoid about someone laughing at their miniscule bit of relief, but you really should find another spot to go if you are that worried. :D And that wont guarantee that you wont be captured on a hunter or DEP cam either...

 

Something to remember when taking a nature break in the woods - it's easy to look to see if anyone is coming but it's hard to know if there's a motion-activated camera watching the proceedings.

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There is a fake cam here holding the container of a multi. :)

 

BTW, I don't recommend putting real cameras in the woods. As eigengott states, it would be illegal over here, except rare cases (science, official/state forest research).

 

However, it's done anyway. Spooky.

Edited by Ben0w
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A few months ago I discovered a game cam in a state forest nearby and luckily I had my laptop with me. I took the card out and looked at the pictures and saw that it was placed by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection from the logo on the door of the pickup in the first few frames. I placed it back (after deleting a few pictures of myself). :)

 

And you didn't take the opportunity to upload a few other juicy photos to the web cam?

 

With a little photoshop trickery you could really have had a field day with it - pictures of Elvis riding Shergar past the camera, chased by Bigfoot or something. Maybe an alien craft touching down and a little green man poking at the box the camera was in before going back to the craft and taking off again.

 

Here's a photo from the listing of one my caches. The cache is called Area 51: Shindagin Hollow

 

5bea6edf-b398-42a3-b5b6-c4e51185f1f0.jpg

 

I did think about photoshopping some of the images, but thought it would take up too much time. The camera was put out on a Friday, and I discovered it the following Monday. I suspected that they were using it to monitor the weekend parties and contractor dumping and would be along at any time to pick it up. Next time I might just insert an odd picture, although I don't want to discourage them. The area is constantly trashed from kids, contractors, and even locals who don't want to wait for one of the 2 days during the week that they can take garbage to the nearby facility. One day I discovered 2 garbage bags back there with some mail among it identifying whose house it came from, opened and strewn around. I packed it all up, put it in the trunk, and returned it to their front lawn in the manner in which I found it around midnight. Lots of fun. :D

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I assume it would be legal, but why do you feel the need to intrude on peoples lives? Let them geocache in peace. If you really feel like you must watch geocachers searching for caches, place the cache on your front porch.

 

Its likely to identify persistent thieves. Chances are you have been caught on camera thousands of times already in one way or another. There really is no difference who looks at it, whether its a security guard at CVS, or some other geocacher. Its only psychological, and if someone doesn't know its there, then it cant bother them. I was about 8 years old when my mother told me to stay out of trouble because people in the area were watching. All of the houses in our neighborhood were identical and about 50 feet from the curb, and I used to imagine that there could be people looking out the windows at the goofy kid with the bright orange hair walking down the street. I recall going to the big blue mailbox at the corner and stuffing weeds and rocks in it just to see what would happen. Absolutely nothing. :D

 

The Egyptians used the image of the all seeing eye as an attempt to control people. It was said that someone standing on the top of the pyramids could see all that was happening, and even know what people were thinking. As a result it is still used today on the back of the one dollar bill, and there are still people around with an irrational fear of it. I don't think that there are any particular powers associated with that, although there is something rather unusual and artsy about the sphinx that can only be seen from the viewpoint from the top of the pyramid behind it. Although only 2 objects are commonly associated with the sphinx, a lion and a man, the third is only noticed from that unique viewpoint. You can probably guess what it might be, but it only becomes obvious from only the top of the pyramid behind it. It also portrays the actual origin of the Riddle of the Sphinx, not the Greek interpretation, as a part of it was modified.

 

all+seeing+eye.jpg

 

Look Ma, I just got my new game camera!!!

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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One day I discovered 2 garbage bags back there with some mail among it identifying whose house it came from, opened and strewn around. I packed it all up, put it in the trunk, and returned it to their front lawn in the manner in which I found it around midnight. Lots of fun. :D

They must be so happy to get their mail back :D

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One day I discovered 2 garbage bags back there with some mail among it identifying whose house it came from, opened and strewn around. I packed it all up, put it in the trunk, and returned it to their front lawn in the manner in which I found it around midnight. Lots of fun. :D

They must be so happy to get their mail back :D

 

Yeah, along with their magazines, used coffee filters, bottles and juice containers, broken stuff probably stored in the attic for a decade, and other intimate items. I could have disposed of it properly but that wouldn't have been as much fun.

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Wow some great responses here. I decided not to use a well hidden trail cam on my next woodsy cache hide. I was thinking of doing this because of the price of the container I'm going to use and the fact that we have local cache thieves in my area.

 

I see no need to since I have access to remote HD security cams facing the exact cache location and parking GZ cords.

Edited by glenn37216
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Wow some great responses here. I decided not to use a well hidden trail cam on my next woodsy cache hide. I was thinking of doing this because of the price of the container I'm going to use and the fact that we have local cache thieves in my area.

 

I see no need to since I have access to remote HD security cams facing the exact cache location and parking GZ cords.

:mellow::huh::blink::ph34r:

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Wow some great responses here. I decided not to use a well hidden trail cam on my next woodsy cache hide. I was thinking of doing this because of the price of the container I'm going to use and the fact that we have local cache thieves in my area.

 

I see no need to since I have access to remote HD security cams facing the exact cache location and parking GZ cords.

 

If the price of the container is a concern I'd look to hide something cheaper.

 

Even if you get HD footage of the culprits if the cache gets stolen there's no way of knowing if they'll be local, if the police will take any action, and that's assuming you actually get decent footage of them.

 

If someone is kind enough to face the cameras square-on you might get decent footage; if they are wearing a cap or a hooded top you'll get a lot less. At night you'll get less still. Depending on just where and what the cache is, anything that takes it might not even be a human - if someone leaves a food item inside the cache and a local animal takes a liking to it the animal might move it as they try to get into it. I remember the time I stayed in the Smoky Mountains where the owner of the B&B had a trash can with a lid that screwed on tightly and the local black bears would often take it away and try to open it.

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Wow some great responses here. I decided not to use a well hidden trail cam on my next woodsy cache hide. I was thinking of doing this because of the price of the container I'm going to use and the fact that we have local cache thieves in my area.

 

I see no need to since I have access to remote HD security cams facing the exact cache location and parking GZ cords.

 

What you need for the cache thieves is a setup like this one.

 

If that arouses too much attention, then perhaps you can hack their pacemaker, if they have one, and if they survive, or get into some other medical emergency onsite, then hack the hospital equipment. :huh:

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I am fairly certain that if you are filming in a public area that the people you are filming must be aware.

 

I would feel creeped out if someone filmed me without my consent. I don't mind if someone posted that I was being filmed like they do at stores. I feel I have a right to know if I am being watched.

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I am fairly certain that if you are filming in a public area that the people you are filming must be aware.

 

I would feel creeped out if someone filmed me without my consent. I don't mind if someone posted that I was being filmed like they do at stores. I feel I have a right to know if I am being watched.

 

No permission needed in a public area you give up all privacy rights when walking in public camera wise...

 

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/photography_law_rights.html

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4wheelin_fool and Primevci

 

The situation is not so cut and dried. Certainly, there is a right to photograph almost anything and anyone in a public space however that does not trump an individual’s right to the expectation of privacy in some cases.

 

For example an ATM is accessible by the public however most would reasonably expect that their PIN number would be respected and protected as private, and would object to having their PIN number photographed and/or recorded by any means other than the ATM (without providing consent). One other obvious case would the taking of photographs underneath skirts (or kilts) ...

 

For the Fourth Amendment protects people, not places. What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection. ... But what he seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected."

 

Assuming for the moment the OP is talking about the "wilderness" ...

 

The general standard used by courts comes from Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967), and it says the right of privacy extends where a person has a “reasonable expectation of privacy"– the expectation must be one that is generally accepted by society, not subjectively by an individual. Fortunately, it is well settled that forest and wilderness areas (even where owned or managed by the government) are areas where privacy is respected, as wilderness areas are held in the “public trust" for the benefit of the people exercising their traditional rights.

 

the Wilderness Act of 1964 expressly recognizes that one of the purposes of the law is to protect “solitude" for its visitors practicing naturalism during their stay.

 

The full article is here

 

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-right-to-privacy-in-the-wilderness

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4wheelin_fool and Primevci

 

The situation is not so cut and dried. Certainly, there is a right to photograph almost anything and anyone in a public space however that does not trump an individual’s right to the expectation of privacy in some cases.

 

For example an ATM is accessible by the public however most would reasonably expect that their PIN number would be respected and protected as private, and would object to having their PIN number photographed and/or recorded by any means other than the ATM (without providing consent). One other obvious case would the taking of photographs underneath skirts (or kilts) ...

 

For the Fourth Amendment protects people, not places. What a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection. ... But what he seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected."

 

Assuming for the moment the OP is talking about the "wilderness" ...

 

The general standard used by courts comes from Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967), and it says the right of privacy extends where a person has a “reasonable expectation of privacy"– the expectation must be one that is generally accepted by society, not subjectively by an individual. Fortunately, it is well settled that forest and wilderness areas (even where owned or managed by the government) are areas where privacy is respected, as wilderness areas are held in the “public trust" for the benefit of the people exercising their traditional rights.

 

the Wilderness Act of 1964 expressly recognizes that one of the purposes of the law is to protect “solitude" for its visitors practicing naturalism during their stay.

 

The full article is here

 

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-right-to-privacy-in-the-wilderness

 

That's what I thought, although it would still be difficult to define it. That would imply that most trail cams installed by hunters could be considered an invasion of privacy, but a geocacher at a geocache site could run into another geocacher at that spot. Since it is a target area, only a muggle would have privacy rights, as most geocachers would not do anything intimate at ground zero, as another geocacher could wander along at any time.

 

So if a muggle steals a cache by stumbling upon it accidentally, they may have a case against it being posted to YouTube. A geocacher would not.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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