eTrex 30 and auto-routing with openstreetmap issue?

[wwjd7]

Decided to try the routable OpenStreetMap on my eTrex 30 to see if I like it better than City Navigator NT. For the most part, I do.

 

However, when auto-routing, the GPS now attempts to direct me down paths and walking trails. I have my Calculate Routes For set to Car/Motorcycle, not Pedestrian, so that isn’t the problem. City Navigator never did this.

 

Has anyone else experienced this issue? Is there a solution?

 

Overall, I like OpenStreetMap, but if it’s going to take me kilometers down a road only to tell me to turn left onto a walking path and drive on it, then it’s useless for auto-routing... there are lots of bike paths and trails around here.

[insig]

That sounds like the map is reporting to the eTrex that those trails are suitable for cars to drive on. You might be able to 'trick' it into not choosing those trails by turning on the "unpaved roads" avoidance in your routing setup. If those trails are put in the map as unpaved, it should skip them if you turn that on.

[+MartyBartfast]

Afraid that's one of the penalties of OSM maps, often incorrect classification of routes. Which OSM map is it?

Also an advantage, if you find a mis-classified track you can go and change it....

[wwjd7]

I’m using the routable map “OSM generic routable new(CA-ON_22-07-2014)”.

 

I tried setting it to avoid unpaved roads but unfortunately that didn’t work. It still took me onto a hiking path, and calculated even a more convoluted route to get to my destination as it tried to avoid the unpaved roads in getting there. The suggestion was worth a try anyway.

 

Strangely enough, it calculates perfectly with BaseCamp using the OSM map, but not on the eTrex 30. I know, someone will suggest copying the created route from BaseCamp to the eTrex and using that. Not going to work…... I calculate my routes on the fly as I’m moving from one cache to another.

 

I guess it’s back to City Navigator then. The old adage is true…... you get what you pay for.

Edited August 7, 2014 by radix4

[+northernpenguin]

Another question. Which firmware version are you running on the eTrex 30 ? Are you running the most current (3.90 at this time) or an earlier one?

 

The fact that Basecamp routes properly while the GPS does not, is an interesting one.

 

"Avoid unpaved roads" is only going to work if the trails are tagged as unpaved road (linetype 0x000a Unpaved Road) in the Garmin IMG file. If it's tagged as a trail (linetype 0x0016 Walkway/Trail) and has routable information, that does not match the "avoid unpaved roads" rule and will still be considered for routing the GPS is not smart enough to realize that you mean to include Walkway/Trail in the Unpaved Roads setting unfortunately.

 

It's probable the Basecamp code simply ignores trails for routing when set to a vehicular type route, while the GPS doesn't have that particular code (and being primarily a hiking/recreational GPS vs automotive with a small amount of working RAM, I can sort of see some logic to this but wait, see below!). Since City Navigator NT does not include routing information on trails that I am aware of - in fact I don't recall seeing trails at all on that map set - the problem doesn't occur when using that - primarily automotive use - map set.

 

Now, I'm aware that Garmin's Topo Canada v4 has routing information on roads, and also has trails, so I felt this would be an interesting map set to test - to see if my eTrex 30 will avoid routing on trails. Here's my result:

Basecamp works properly when toggled between "Hiking" vs "Driving".

Fired up my eTrex 30 and setup the same route - Guidance On Road for Time, Car/Motorcycle it took the roads. Pedestrian took the hiking trail. So it seems to work without major fiddling on my part.

 

So I'm curious how the trail is identified in the OSM IMG file. If they got clever on the OSM map (like I did with the Ontario Trails Project map) and used road types with a custom TYP file to distinguish major and minor trails for example, the GPS is not going to figure this out - all the trails will appear as roads to the GPS. If they actually used the Walkway/Trail linetype for all the trails then something more interesting is happening here, and it's most likely inside the OSM IMG file itself, not the GPS.

 

 

[39_Steps]

Very late to both the Android and OSM concepts, but in limited testing of OSMAND app on a Moto G cell phone used as a tablet, Pedestrian, Bicycle, and Automobile routing modes all work as they should on trails, bike paths, and roadways in one urban area I tried.

 

Very impressive, even though I have not tried to figure out how it is done yet.

Edited August 7, 2014 by 39_Steps

[+northernpenguin]

Very late to both the Android and OSM concepts, but in limited testing of OSMAND app on a Moto G cell phone used as a tablet, Pedestrian, Bicycle, and Automobile routing modes all work as they should on trails, bike paths, and roadways in one urban area I tried.

 

Very impressive, even though I have not tried to figure out how it is done yet.

 

OSM Routing on a mobile phone is a completely different beast altogether. The mobile phone is most likely NOT using the Garmin IMG format or rendering engine.

This particular discussion pertains to using OSM maps on a specific Garmin handheld device, which cannot have the routing engine swapped out.

 

I have several OSM apps for my iPhone which work happily, and using OSM on a MacBook Pro also routes properly but that doesn't help the OP at all.

 

 

[39_Steps]

Very late to both the Android and OSM concepts, but in limited testing of OSMAND app on a Moto G cell phone used as a tablet, Pedestrian, Bicycle, and Automobile routing modes all work as they should on trails, bike paths, and roadways in one urban area I tried.

 

Very impressive, even though I have not tried to figure out how it is done yet.

 

OSM Routing on a mobile phone is a completely different beast altogether. The mobile phone is most likely NOT using the Garmin IMG format or rendering engine.

This particular discussion pertains to using OSM maps on a specific Garmin handheld device, which cannot have the routing engine swapped out.

 

I have several OSM apps for my iPhone which work happily, and using OSM on a MacBook Pro also routes properly but that doesn't help the OP at all.

Thank you for pointing out that this thread is device and data specific for the eTrex 30 only. My perhaps off topic post was intended only to suggest that some handheld devices may exhibit orderly automatic routing behavior for Pedestrians or Bicycles or Street Vehicles from available OSM data.

[wwjd7]

Thanks sussamb for the suggestion, but BaseCamp has more transportation options than the eTrex so can’t really set them identical.

 

BaseCamp will auto-route along trails for : ATV, Bicycle, Dirt Bike, Hiker, Mountain Bike, Mountaineer, Off Roading, Pedestrian, and Touring Bicycle. All other methods will stick to the roads only, without taking trails.

 

It’s unfortunate that when using OSM maps on the eTrex 30 and it’s set to Car, thinks it’s a Pedestrian. Ultimately, I suspect the OSM maps are the culprit, not the eTrex.

 

In the end, I’ll do what you do sussamb… use the OSM for geocaching and CN for road nav. It’s a partial solution anyway.

 

Footnote: I’m running v3.9 on my eTrex. I can’t speak for prior versions as I only installed the OSM map after I got v3.9.

[+northernpenguin]

1407453649[/url]' post='5412250']

 

It's unfortunate that when using OSM maps on the eTrex 30 and it's set to Car, thinks it's a Pedestrian. Ultimately, I suspect the OSM maps are the culprit, not the eTrex.

 

 

As I said above, if OSM is using say Major Highway to show a biking trail vs hiking trail then the eTrex is going to think that is a road. You can change how the lines display on the GPS with a Custom TYP file.

[+Red90]

I check an OSM map in my area and trails are trails (0x16) and routing tick boxes are for pedestrian and bike only. I have not done any tests on a GPS. And they include a TYP file.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Red90

[+northernpenguin]

I check an OSM map in my area and trails are trails (0x16) and routing tick boxes are for pedestrian and bike only. I have not done any tests on a GPS. And they include a TYP file.

 

I guess the question is, where did the OP get the OSM maps from (which website). Perhaps it is a site specific or location specific problem to the OP's area.

[+Red90]

Sure. If the OP lets us know a location and the web site that maps came from, we could have a look.

 

edit: The OP appears to be in Mississauga. So basically in the house next to northernpenguin....

Edited August 8, 2014 by Red90

[+northernpenguin]

Sure. If the OP lets us know a location and the web site that maps came from, we could have a look.

 

edit: The OP appears to be in Mississauga. So basically in the house next to northernpenguin....

 

Technically I'm in Georgetown so it would be "basically in the county next to northernpenguin..." but yes pretty close by ~ 12km or so.

 

I still want to know if the OSM maps came from http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl or some other site so I can load the same map and see what's up. Since I'm in the OP's area it would also be helpful to know which trail they are trying to route around so I can look right there.

Also, OP - tooting my own horn here but http://torontogeocaching.com/trailmaps ...

Edited August 8, 2014 by northernpenguin

[wwjd7]

Yep, northernpenquin and I are just about neighbours, 12km away Mississauga is about right.

 

Anyway, I got the OSM from the garmin.openstreetmap.nl site. I selected Generic Routable (new style)/North America/Ontario (not the manual Ontario selection, the default ALL of Ontario). Then next page I selected the osm_generic_new_gmapsupp.zip for unzipping to my GPS, as well as the one for Windows Basecamp.

 

I would be happy to email northernpenguin a small route that illustrates the problem perfectly.

Edited August 8, 2014 by radix4

[+Red90]

Have you tried using mapinstall to make the map file instead of copying the one provided?

[wwjd7]

Tried using mapinstall as opposed to just copying the map to the GPS. No improvement to routing.

 

But while fiddling with it, I notice that my map selections are not persisting when changing profiles. eg. If I disable CN and enable OSM in profile Geocaching, then switch to profile Automobile, do the opposite map selections, then go back to profile Geocaching, I find CN and OSM are both enabled. That’s going to be no fun in the field.

 

Beginning to wonder if I made the right decision installing the OSM maps.

[wwjd7]

The problem of the OSM not persisting across profiles solved!

 

In short, the default OSM filename is TOO LONG, or in another way, the filename length is okay but it’s beyond the eTrex’s limit.

 

Original filename was: OSM routable new(CA-ON_31-07-2014).img.

The entry in the Profile is truncated: OSM routable new(CA-ON_31-07-201.

 

To remedy, I left the Profile file untouched, and renamed the map to OSM new.img and rebooted. The Profile file automatically refreshed itself during reboot. Problem solved, the maps now persist across Profiles!

 

I betcha sussamb didn’t experience the map persistence issue because his OSM filename length is likely less than the max limit.

 

Now if only I could resolve the OSM routing issue.

[+BlackRose67]

I noticed that (routing) as well when using OSM on my eTrex 20.

 

The screen would indicate to turn right onto a trail. Uhhh, that's a bike path with concrete bollards.

 

I should try the same route on my Nuvi with CN 2015.1 NA and see what it does.

I know I routinely hear "turn right and navigate offroad" from the Nuvi lady.

[+northernpenguin]

I just cross checked the OP's route against OSM map and tested on my eTrex.

First off, the version of the map I tested with is slightly newer than what the OP is using so that may be a factor. I was unable to replicate the result of the car routing down the trail on my GPS.

 

The GPS routing a pedestrian/bike via the road makes sense if you pull up the area in the OSM Map Editor - the destination point is near a bridge and the map does not have an intersection node between the road and the trail at that point as the trail is below the road grade.

 

My suggestion to the OP at the moment is to re test using the OSM generic routable new (CA-ON_10-08-2014) map that is the current download as of today. It seems to work fine on my eTrex 30 in Car/Motorcycle, Pedestrian and Bicycle routing modes from what I can tell.

If in doubt about a specific route, load up the OpenStreetMap editor and check the nodes along the route to see if there is a turn restriction or node disconnect (ie bridge).

 

Big thank you to the OP for posting that long filenames fix for sticky maps on profile change.... I tend to be wordy with my map names since I switch often and that bug has been biting me.

[wwjd7]

Thanks northernpenquin, I’ll download the latest map compilation, maybe the issue was recently fixed. Blackrose67 noticed the problem as well on his travels, so good to know it wasn’t just me and my unit.

 

Didn’t know about the OpenStreetMap Editor, will have to look into that.

 

You’re welcome for the long filename issue, glad to provide a fix.