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Read Me First! Getting started with the site

#1 User is offline   Jeremy 

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  Posted 15 August 2005 - 10:30 AM

Note: We are currently discussing how to accept new waymark categories. We are not going through the process at this time

Welcome to the new Waymarking forum section. As a project like this has never been done before, we anticipated there will be a lot of questions, comments, suggestions, etc. So take a moment and check out the new web site and especially read the Waymarking FAQ. We'll do our best to update this with more information as people ask questions.

So what is waymarking? While geocaching is a way to place containers in the world for others in the find, the tables are now turned and it is up to you to go out and find unique objects and places around the world. Waymark category managers create a theme and it is up to you to find something and share it with others. It is a concept adapted from locationless caches and will eventually replace locationless, virtual, and webcam caches since these concepts were never technically caches.

In addition to the Waymarking FAQ, I am adding additional FAQ questions that relate directly to Geocaching.com

Do existing locationless caches go away?

Eventually, yes. Although we do plan, with permission, to transfer the existing locationless caches to the new waymarking site, existing locationless caches that do not transfer will be allowed to remain on the geocaching.com web site until the end of the year. Existing locationless caches that do transfer to waymarking.com will be archived and the listings will be locked. It is up to the locationless cache owner whether to transfer their category.

Any existing logs will be preserved.

Can I transfer an archived locationless cache?

No. Only active locationless caches are eligible for transfer as long as they meet the requirements of a waymark category.

What are the eligibility requirements for transferring a locationless cache?

They must have an individual theme and be at least semi-permanent locations. Listings like the (now archived) yellow Jeep will not be an eligible candidate as a waymark category (for now). As this is a new activity there may be other issues depending on the locationless cache. However we will try and work with the locationless cache owner so they can manage a similar category on waymarking.com.

Keep in mind as the waymark category owner you are also required to be a premium member.

What if a waymark category mirrors an existing locationless but they have different managers?

During the grace period, if the category matches an existing locationless, the category will be transferred to the locationless cache owner.

What if a locationless cache owner decides not to move a listing?

That's perfectly fine. However, keep in mind that once a general grace period is over, someone else will have the opportunity to create a waymark category with the same theme.

If I posted a log for a locationless cache, can I post a waymark for the same waymark category?

Of course! And with waymark variables you will even be able to add additional information for your log entry as a waymark.

Not many virtual caches are being approved. What are you planning to do with virtual caches?

Early on we realized that virtual caches have their place as a way to introduce people to unique locations where a cache couldn't be placed. Since waymark categories are themes for what are essentially virtual caches, a waymark category will be the future location for virtual caches. As a result we will be removing the virtual cache listing from geocaching.com in favor of new waymark categories for these listings. You'll see that by adding virtuals to themes make them easier to seek out and enjoy.

Existing maintained virtuals on geocaching.com will be grandfathered on the web site, but we do not guarantee they will remain listed forever. We'll see how waymarking goes.

Are any other categories being removed from Geocaching.com?

Yes. Most likely web cam caches and Earthcaches will be moved to the waymarking site. As with virtuals, existing maintained listings will remain active on geocaching.com for the near future.

What about Benchmarking? Will it be moved to Waymarking.com?

No. At least not in the near term. There is too much functionality that would be lost by moving over benchmarking to waymarking.com at this time. However there will be some benchmarking categories available to allow the reporting of benchmarks that are not in the official NGS database, such as UK Trigpoints or even benchmarks that were just missed by the NGS but found by waymarkers.

In the long term the technology behind benchmarking, geocaching and waymarking will be more or less the same and these features will be shared. However benchmarking has always been its own section and will remain on geocaching.com for a while - at least until the functionality on waymarking.com warrants it being moved to the new site.

What happens to my stats on Geocaching? Will I lose my find counts?

No. As with any listing now, if any are archived you still retain all of your logs and hides.

There are no waymarks near me! Why?

The waymarking site is brand new, so there are no waymarks in the system. Initially we planned to populate several categories using freely available data, but decided instead to start with a fresh, empty database. We may add filled-in waymark categories in the future, such as the database from the National Register of Historic Places, but for now the fun is in the hunt for new places that fit in waymark categories.

Why is the location filter limited to 10 miles?

While testing the waymarking.com site we populated the site with over 3 million items. The sheer volume required that we limit the overall filtering to 10 miles. However you can still go a level or two deep into a category to do a location based search. The location based search goes out to 100 miles.

Can I download GPX files for individual waymarks?

You will be able to. Unfortunately waymarks are so different to geocaching.com, however, that we will need to create a new xml design for these items so they contain the extra information (called waymark variables). We're still working on this design to accomodate the new site.

How about Pocket Queries?

We will have Pocket Queries for waymarking as well, but it will be more advanced and will have fewer limits due to the semi-permanence of waymarks over geocaches.

Can I create my own waymark category?

Yes. As a premium members you will have this option. However we're doing a slow rollout while we determine how waymark categories will be created. We have another pinned topic to discuss the current thoughts on this subject. Feel free to drop in and provide your own comments.

For the first month we'll be working out the details, testing for bugs we missed, and transferring locationless caches over to waymark categories for the new waymark category managers.

Will non Premium/Charter Members have access to the site?

Yes. For the first month, however, only Premium Members will have access to this forum and the web site. Afterwards all those with geocaching.com accounts will have access to the waymarking site.

Who gets to create waymark categories?

All registered users will be able to create waymarks, but the creation of waymark categories, some filtering and all voting privileges will be available to Premium Members only.

Who gets to create waymarks

All registered users will eventually be able to log waymarks or create them.

What if the waymark category goes AWOL?

We're working on a group management feature for waymark categories, so more than one user can review new waymarks and maintain the category. However for now there is only one waymark category manager per waymark category. Groundspeak will assist categories where the manager has gone AWOL before these other features are in place.

What do you think about taboo categories?

We believe they eventually have the right to exist but not before we have some flags in place to allow people to filter the access to them. Until then the waymarking site will as family friendly as possible. However many categories have unmoderated waymark categories so it is good to be with your child when reviewing the site.

We are continuing to propose ideas for filtering the taboo so feel free to join in on the discussion.

Are waymarking and geocaching memberships interchangable?

Yes. If you purchase a premium membership on either web site it will be usable in both places.

Where are bookmark lists, watch lists, ignore lists, advanced searches, or any other feature currently available on geocaching.com but not here?

Much of the code on Geocaching.com can be used on Waymarking.com and you will begin to see these features added to the waymarking web site. However, we wanted to ensure that the new features here were working well before implementing other features from the Geocaching.com web site. We do plan to implement these features as we move forward with the project.

This post has been edited by Jeremy: 29 August 2005 - 09:36 AM


#2 User is offline   joefrog 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:05 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Do existing locationless caches go away?

Eventually, yes. Although we do plan, with permission, to transfer the existing locationless caches to the new waymarking site, existing locationless caches that do not transfer will be allowed to remain on the geocaching.com web site until the end of the year. Existing locationless caches that do transfer to waymarking.com will be archived and the listings will be locked. It is up to the locationless cache owner whether to transfer their category.

Any existing logs will be preserved.

What are the eligibility requirements for transferring a locationless cache?

They must have an individual theme and be at least semi-permanent locations. Listings like the (now archived) yellow Jeep will not be an eligible candidate as a waymark category (for now). As this is a new activity there may be other issues depending on the locationless cache. However we will try and work with the locationless cache owner so they can manage a similar category on waymarking.com.

Now, that already messes me up. I run the very-popular "Dash for Cache," where the target changes. It is currently being watched by 225+ members.

You're telling me that if I transfer it to the other site, it has to have an individual theme.

Further, if I choose not to make it a single theme, it will dissapear at the end of the year.

I have a problem with this!

#3 User is offline   BDstarcachers 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:34 AM

The FAQ on the Waymarking site says this:

What happens to all the old locationless caches?

If you are a Premium Member and own a locationless geocache, we invite you to create a category on Waymarking.com. Once you have created your category we ask that you archive the geocaching.com listing to avoid confusion. Should you decide not to create a new category, your locationless cache listing will be grandfathered and remain as it is until you decide to archive it. No future locationless caches will be listed on the geocaching.com website.

What about virtual caches?

No new virtual geocaches will be listed on Geocaching.com, but if there is a suitable category for submitting your location on waymarking.com, please feel free to submit a new waymark. If you are a Premium Member and no category exists, you can create a new category for posting your waymark.


So it looks like you can keep your locationless or virtual online at GC.com indefinately, until you archive it because your listing is Grandfathered in.
Is this correct Jeremy?

This post has been edited by BDstarcachers: 16 August 2005 - 04:35 AM


#4 User is offline   AtlantaGal 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:44 AM

I had two great ideas for a locationless, but it looks like the new site is doing away with the "scavenger hunt" type listing since the location of my ideas could be anywhere. Am I reading that right?

This post has been edited by AtlantaGal: 16 August 2005 - 04:44 AM


#5 User is offline   Maingray 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 05:07 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 01:30 PM, said:

Are any other categories being removed from Geocaching.com?

Yes. Most likely web cam caches and Earthcaches will be moved to the waymarking site. As with virtuals, existing maintained listings will remain active on geocaching.com.


In other words, I should NOT add the webcam cache I maintain to waymarking.com yet? Or if I do, archive the geocaching.com one?

#6 User is offline   maconart 

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  Posted 16 August 2005 - 05:29 AM

Awww Mannn! No WeinerMobile? :)

#7 User is offline   WAAS-up 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 07:09 AM

Quote

especially read the Waymarking FAQ.


Anyway you can open up the FAQ for non-premium members to read (or can someone post it here).

Quote

And with waymark variables you will even be able to add additional information for your log entry as a waymark.


Sound interesting, is there more on variables in the FAQ?

Quote

...all voting privileges will be available...

Is this "tounge in cheek" or is there a rating system of some sort?


I found the answer to the last question in another post. (you vote on categories to be accepted into waymarking.com)

This post has been edited by WAAS-up: 16 August 2005 - 07:46 AM


#8 User is offline   EraSeek 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 07:44 AM

BDstarcachers, on Aug 16 2005, 05:34 AM, said:

So it looks like you can keep your locationless or virtual online at GC.com indefinately, until you archive it because your listing is Grandfathered in.
Is this correct Jeremy?

This is where I'm confused as well.

#9 User is offline   pdxmarathonman 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 08:55 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Do existing locationless caches go away?

Eventually, yes. Although we do plan, with permission, to transfer the existing locationless caches to the new waymarking site, existing locationless caches that do not transfer will be allowed to remain on the geocaching.com web site until the end of the year.

From jeremy's initial post in this thread. This seems to contradict the quoted FAQ's

#10 User is offline   Pyewacket 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 09:34 AM

Will the proposals that drop off the first page of this forum be considered? There are so many suggestions coming fast and furiously that some of the others that haven't been voted on have dropped out of view. I hate to bump a post so others will see it, but I'd like to read feedback on a couple of my suggested categories (nature's reclamation and tea rooms/coffee houses).

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it, but how long before we'll know which new categories have been given the go-ahead?

#11 User is offline   Team GPSaxophone 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 04:48 PM

Pyewacket, on Aug 16 2005, 11:34 AM, said:

Will the proposals that drop off the first  page of this forum be considered?  There are so many suggestions coming fast and furiously that some of the others that haven't been voted on have dropped out of view.  I hate to bump a post so others will see it, but I'd like to read feedback on a couple of my suggested categories (nature's reclamation and tea rooms/coffee houses).

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it, but how long before we'll know which new categories have been given the go-ahead?

The proposal threads should all be deleted since they aren't accepting proposals at this time anyway

This post has been edited by Team GPSaxophone: 16 August 2005 - 04:49 PM


#12 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 05:03 PM

Team GPSaxophone, on Aug 16 2005, 04:48 PM, said:

The proposal threads should all be deleted since they aren't accepting proposals at this time anyway

They were moved to a new area after that post. I also made a note at the top of this one so folks were clear that we were not accepting new ones at this time.

#13 User is offline   Wacka 

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 11:22 AM

I'm for keeping all the webcams , virts and earthcaches on gc.com that are there now granfathered in unless they get archived. Please do not mass archive them at a future date. All new ones should go to waypointing. There should be a REQUIREMENT for confirmation that you visited the waypoint (codeword, info off a plaque or a picture with the GPSr) so that one can't log massive #s of waypoints without leaving the house.

#14 User is offline   KoosKoos 

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 12:05 PM

Wacka, on Aug 17 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

I'm for keeping all the webcams , virts and earthcaches on gc.com that are there now granfathered in unless they get archived. Please do not mass archive them at a future date. All new ones should go to waypointing. There should be a REQUIREMENT for confirmation that you visited the waypoint (codeword, info off a plaque or a picture with the GPSr) so that one can't log massive #s of waypoints without leaving the house.

I agree with keeping existing caches of those types as long as they're being maintained (just like the APE caches).

Wouldn't a requirement to log go against the ideas of the waymarking site though? It isn't a replacement for geocaching activities, so there's not a reason to confirm a "visit".

#15 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 12:47 PM

I don't see why a certain waymarking category can't have a logging (or marking) requirement. It depends on the item and the requirements by the waymark category manager.

#16 User is offline   Ladycacher 

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 07:30 PM

Wacka, on Aug 17 2005, 11:22 AM, said:

I'm for keeping all the webcams , virts and earthcaches on gc.com that are there now granfathered in unless they get archived. Please do not mass archive them at a future date. All new ones should go to waypointing. There should be a REQUIREMENT for confirmation that you visited the waypoint (codeword, info off a plaque or a picture with the GPSr) so that one can't log massive #s of waypoints without leaving the house.

I completely agree. I can't believe they are being taken away. What will it hurt to leave them here? I also notcied on the new website a listing for a gentlemens club....what the? So we are going to list THOSE kinds of places? I thought this was a family sport? It even says "10.00 table dances all day", yeah.....that's what I want my son reading.

#17 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 08:14 PM

Wacka, on Aug 17 2005, 11:22 AM, said:

I'm for keeping all the webcams , virts and earthcaches on gc.com that are there now granfathered in unless they get archived.

Regarding earthcaches, geoaware makes that decision since it is the Geological Societly of America's ultimate decision. As for virtuals and web cams the pleading seems a bit premature, but duly noted. I would say, however, that we're 99.999% sure about not allowing new ones. Whether the existing ones would stay is still worth a debate at a future time. The "wow" factor has been already admitted as difficult to quantify and frankly no one wants to make that judgement anymore.

Quote

Please do not mass archive them at a future date.  All new ones should go to waypointing.


What is "waypointing"?

Quote

There should be a REQUIREMENT for confirmation that you visited the waypoint (codeword, info off a plaque or a picture with the GPSr)  so that one can't log massive #s of waypoints without leaving the house.


That is really up to the waymark category manager, IMO. If you want to be strict, propose and manage your own personal category.

#18 User is offline   Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 01:36 AM

joefrog, on Aug 16 2005, 04:05 AM, said:

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:


Do existing locationless caches go away?

Eventually, yes. Although we do plan, with permission, to transfer the existing locationless caches to the new waymarking site, existing locationless caches that do not transfer will be allowed to remain on the geocaching.com web site until the end of the year. Existing locationless caches that do transfer to waymarking.com will be archived and the listings will be locked. It is up to the locationless cache owner whether to transfer their category.

Any existing logs will be preserved.

What are the eligibility requirements for transferring a locationless cache?

They must have an individual theme and be at least semi-permanent locations. Listings like the (now archived) yellow Jeep will not be an eligible candidate as a waymark category (for now). As this is a new activity there may be other issues depending on the locationless cache. However we will try and work with the locationless cache owner so they can manage a similar category on waymarking.com.

Now, that already messes me up. I run the very-popular "Dash for Cache," where the target changes. It is currently being watched by 225+ members.

You're telling me that if I transfer it to the other site, it has to have an individual theme.

Further, if I choose not to make it a single theme, it will dissapear at the end of the year.

I have a problem with this!

If you have to transfer the Dash for Cache locationless cache to waymarking.com, I think I have a solution for it.

1) You manage your category of something like "changing locations". (Im sure you can be more creative than I am in naming it.) Getting it accepted shouldnt be hard with the 225 plus members watching that cache currently.

2) You alone manage all listings in that category. Each listing would then be your current targets. When you retire a target, you archive the listing.


At 236 am, I hope Im making sense, or even making a valid contribution to the discussion.

#19 User is offline   Cornix 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 02:39 AM

Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking said:

If you have to transfer the Dash for Cache locationless cache to waymarking.com, I think I have a solution for it.

1) You manage your category of something like "changing locations". (Im sure you can be more creative than I am in naming it.) Getting it accepted shouldnt be hard with the 225 plus members watching that cache currently.

2) You alone manage all listings in that category. Each listing would then be your current targets. When you retire a target, you archive the listing.

I think this is a bad idea. If something is worth waymarking it shouldn't be archived if it still exists.

The "Dash for Cache" locationless had some interesting tasks. But I don't like the time restriction, it's unnecessary.

Cornix

#20 User is offline   cache_r_joe 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 03:38 AM

This may be answered somewhere, but do the finds show up on my gc.com stats. Would be nice to have all the stats in one place.

Joe

#21 User is offline   southdeltan 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 10:19 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 16 2005, 07:03 PM, said:

Team GPSaxophone, on Aug 16 2005, 04:48 PM, said:

The proposal threads should all be deleted since they aren't accepting proposals at this time anyway

They were moved to a new area after that post. I also made a note at the top of this one so folks were clear that we were not accepting new ones at this time.

I am truly confused about this.... There is a seperate forum for "Category Proposals". The sticky post at the top says that you're not accepting submissions.... If not, why have a seperate forum??

I'm really confused. I have a few ideas and I'd like to submit them so I can manage them if accepted, but I don't want to waste my time if they're not being accepted....

What's going on - I'm really confused.

sd

#22 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 10:26 AM

southdeltan, on Aug 18 2005, 10:19 AM, said:

I am truly confused about this.... There is a seperate forum for "Category Proposals". The sticky post at the top says that you're not accepting submissions.... If not, why have a seperate forum??

Becuase people are already requesting them anyway.

Quote

I'm really confused.  I have a few ideas and I'd like to submit them so I can manage them if accepted, but I don't want to waste my time if they're not being accepted....


They aren't but you can go through the exercise to see if you can refine your idea.

#23 User is offline   southdeltan 

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 10:45 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 18 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

Quote

I'm really confused.  I have a few ideas and I'd like to submit them so I can manage them if accepted, but I don't want to waste my time if they're not being accepted....


They aren't but you can go through the exercise to see if you can refine your idea.

Ok, one more question:

If I submit one of these "unofficial" proposals - and am the first person to submit it - will I be the person who gets to "manage" it when you do start taking applications?

Sorry if that's a silly question - I'm just trying to be 100% sure.

sd

#24 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 07:00 AM

southdeltan, on Aug 18 2005, 10:45 AM, said:

If I submit one of these "unofficial" proposals - and am the first person to submit it - will I be the person who gets to "manage" it when you do start taking applications?

Sorry if that's a silly question - I'm just trying to be 100% sure.

It isn't silly. I'm a bit conflicted with this one.

First, I can understand the excitement over waymarks and I'd want to propose an idea I thought was cool. However it isn't formally announced so it isn't really fair to the folks that don't know about it now.

Also, if we indicate we aren't accepting new proposals and you propose one, how should we deal with that? Any suggestions?

My original thought was to lock all the threads when we are ready to accept proposals, and allow new ones at a certain time. First come, first served. We'd announce the time so everyone knows beforehand to start discussing it.

#25 User is offline   cache_test_dummies 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 07:18 AM

No matter how you do it, you're likely to be subject to the same land-rush effect we've been seeing since you announced the Beta release last week.

Heck, I jumped into the fray myself with my proposal for Hunamoid Rock Formations.

Realistically, if there are too many proposals introduced all at once, it's going to be hard for everybody to partipate in the discussions and voting. Not that I'm a big fan of extra paperwork, but whenever you open the gates up for accepting proposals again, you might want to make the jumping-in hurdle a bit higher to encourage more carefully thought out and prepared proposals. Maybe make each proposal contain at least some minimal set of information like description, name suggestions, possible category fit, and an example.

Might slow the flood waters a bit early on. Just a thought.

edit: spelling

This post has been edited by cache_test_dummies: 20 August 2005 - 07:19 AM


#26 User is offline   catcher24 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:15 AM

Quote

Posted by Jeremy:
They aren't but you can go through the exercise to see if you can refine your idea.


I think putting out the category proposal thread already was a mistake. I know you posted at the top of it that no proposals are being accepted, but are all the members entering proposals reading your notice? I think you may be creating a problem for yourself by letting them post and discuss at this point, prior to a definite procedure being developed - the cart before the horse, so to speak. I also see the obvious need for voting and gc.com having ultimate say over categories - on the first page are suggestions for red light districts and marijuana cultivation areas! :lol: Wonderful things for my teenager to be reading. Perhaps whoever that thread moderator is should be dumping some of these before they even go up on the thread.

#27 User is offline   Team Neos 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 01:22 PM

My thought is that now that some folks have made suggestions, if you wipe those suggestions out, and start fresh, you will have a lot of folks angry if someone else beats them to the reposting of the idea.

You have already set a precedent for heirarchy by allowing your advisory crew to have the first round of categories.

This is a chance to give those of us who are preminum members an advantage over non-paying members.

You could continue to allow premium members the chance to make suggestions, and accept or decline all of those before you open the way to non-paying members. If you really don't want premium members to have "dibs" on those ideas, you should never have created the other thread.

If you really don't want anyone to have an advantage over everyone and their brother--leave the thread up for suggestions, but have only one pinned message at the top stating that no new categories are being accepted at this time, all new suggestions in any other thread will be removed, and the thread will be opened when and if you are ready to accept suggestions. If any new suggestions are made in the other thread just delete them.

This post has been edited by Team Neos: 20 August 2005 - 01:24 PM


#28 User is offline   Olar 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:13 PM

Team Neos, on Aug 20 2005, 05:22 PM, said:

My thought is that now that some folks have made suggestions, if you wipe those suggestions out, and start fresh, you will have a lot of folks angry if someone else beats them to the reposting of the idea.

You have already set a precedent for heirarchy by allowing your advisory crew to have the first round of categories.

This is a chance to give those of us who are preminum members an advantage over non-paying members.

You could continue to allow premium members the chance to make suggestions, and accept or decline all of those before you open the way to non-paying members. If you really don't want premium members to have "dibs" on those ideas, you should never have created the other thread.

If you really don't want anyone to have an advantage over everyone and their brother--leave the thread up for suggestions, but have only one pinned message at the top stating that no new categories are being accepted at this time, all new suggestions in any other thread will be removed, and the thread will be opened when and if you are ready to accept suggestions. If any new suggestions are made in the other thread just delete them.


An excerpt from Jeremy's initial post.

Quote

Will non Premium/Charter Members have access to the site?

Yes. For the first month, however, only Premium Members will have access to this forum and the web site. Afterwards all those with geocaching.com accounts will have access to the waymarking site. Everyone will be able to create waymarks, but the creation of waymark categories, some filtering and all voting privileges will be available to Premium Members only.


I'd say that is more than fair.

Olar

#29 User is offline   Lil Devil 

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  Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:38 PM

:lol: It looks like you got what you want Team Neos. As a matter of fact, I think *all* your points are addressed in the FAQ. Perhaps you should read it :lol:

#30 User is offline   Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking 

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:47 PM

I thought I saw a post by Jeremy that said we could go ahead and continue to submit ideas, giving them a chance to fully flesh out before it got to the point of voting on them.


If we didnt think about the different categories that we wanted, would the subject of puzzle waymarks and what to do about the adult type waymarks have been considered?

#31 User is offline   Team Neos 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:07 AM

Lil Devil, on Aug 20 2005, 08:38 PM, said:

:laughing: It looks like you got what you want Team Neos. As a matter of fact, I think *all* your points are addressed in the FAQ. Perhaps you should read it :laughing:

Dang! What is really bad is that I did read it (along with about 1000 other threads created since then)... I had forgotten that ~ Thanks for pointing it out! :rolleyes:

#32 User is offline   Jeremy 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:00 AM

I made some more changes to the FAQ to break out some questions and add a few others.

#33 User is offline   southdeltan 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 10:00 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 20 2005, 09:00 AM, said:

southdeltan, on Aug 18 2005, 10:45 AM, said:

If I submit one of these "unofficial" proposals - and am the first person to submit it - will I be the person who gets to "manage" it when you do start taking applications?

Sorry if that's a silly question - I'm just trying to be 100% sure.

It isn't silly. I'm a bit conflicted with this one.

First, I can understand the excitement over waymarks and I'd want to propose an idea I thought was cool. However it isn't formally announced so it isn't really fair to the folks that don't know about it now.

Also, if we indicate we aren't accepting new proposals and you propose one, how should we deal with that? Any suggestions?

My original thought was to lock all the threads when we are ready to accept proposals, and allow new ones at a certain time. First come, first served. We'd announce the time so everyone knows beforehand to start discussing it.

I think that creating the seperate forum for proposals and NOT locking it to prevent new posts after your "We are not accepting proposals" thread was opening a can of worms. I understand that people kept proposing ideas in the Getting Started forum - but it seems a few still are - even hijacking bug, help, and idea threads that have nothing to do with category proposal.

So... now that has been done, you have several options:

1. You can lock the new forum from new posts and lock all of the active threads. That'll be timeconsuming to say the least. Then you'll just have to lock every thread that is a proposal in the "Getting Started with WM" forum (because people might post there and it's also obvious some people don't read everything before posting). You'd probably have to moderate people that post ideas in individual threads.. Then you could allow new ones to be posted and only pay attention to those.

2. You could lock all of the threads, prevent any new posts, then unlock them all when you are allowing new posts. (Still gonna be a landrush with people "bumping" their threads up).

3. You could just go with what's already here (I'll admit this is a bit selfish since I jumped the gun to, in the confussion on this...). As soon as the current locationless get moved over, you could slowly start with some of the current proposals (possibly based on post count as a way to check them out... a lot of activity either means it's a popular idea or an unpopular one - should be easy enough to figure out).

I know the last solution ( #3 ) may not be fair to those that aren't aware of WMing - but I'd wager most of the forum regulars are aware of the game and usually those people weigh in heavily on Groundspeak policy. Besides, life's not fair. More importantly - it's probably better to work out the bugs in the process with a smaller group.

Do you really want to wait until you tell EVERYBODY about the website to start working out new categories? It's confusing now - think about the extra problems with extra people. I'd think using this beta period to do all of the beta testing would be a good idea.

Those are just a few ideas that popped into my head... and they're not well formed necessarily. I'm sure some other people have suggestions.

I do think that would be a bad idea to lock the threads (or delete them, but I don't think that's truly an option you'd consider) then tell people to start over.... you're likely to have more complaints from people who have submitted than from people who didn't know about waymarking.

I'm honestly torn. On one hand you did clearly say "no new submissions". On the other hand, you allowed people to start doing it. A seperate forum that people could post to was a bit confusing... especially after the initial rush of people posting... it became one of those "Is that admin message up to date or not... did they change their mind somewhere and not post it here??" situations.

sd

#34 User is offline   catcher24 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:10 PM

I think southdeltan makes a good suggestion under proposal #3. Lock the thread now - no more proposals accepted after a certain date. Get all of the locationless caches that are going to be ported over done. Then start down the posts in the proposals thread. He is right in saying that the most likely ones to be good will have the most replies. Vote on those, get them done. Then do the voting on those proposals with fewer replies. Once all the current locationless caches/WM proposals are done, reopen the thread to everyone. I also concur that for a while, only PM's should do it, simply to cut down on the confusion. If some bad categories get placed, they will eventually go down to the bottom via the popularity votes, and can perhaps eventually be deleted at the discretion of the PTB. It sounds like a good, workable solution and should be seriously considered.

#35 User is offline   Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:24 PM

I think only PMs should do it period. It would be a nice added feature just for paying members.

#36 User is offline   southdeltan 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:43 PM

Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking, on Aug 21 2005, 07:24 PM, said:

I think only PMs should do it period. It would be a nice added feature just for paying members.

This is addressed in the FAQ. I think there have been a few posts as well that also say only PMs will be able to CREATE categories. I'm guessing that the forum for suggestions will be a PM only forum.

Quote

Can I create my own waymark category?

Yes. As a premium members you will have this option.


sd

#37 User is offline   Team Sagefox 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 09:11 PM

Wacka, on Aug 17 2005, 11:22 AM, said:

I'm for keeping all the webcams , virts and earthcaches on gc.com that are there now granfathered in unless they get archived. Please do not mass archive them at a future date.

I actually like the concept of removing all existing locationless, virts, webcam and earthcaches from the gc.com geocaching site. I have been a fan of these caches having found about 245 of them total. In the past I have always argued against reducing our find counts but this new concept sounds clean and I would even support the reduction of my find count in this switch over. Especially if my finds for these caches transferred to Waymarking.

With the Waymarking concept I really like the idea of a physical only geocache site.

#38 User is offline   Lil Devil 

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 09:25 PM

Even if locationless/virtuals/webcams/earthcaches are "moved" to waymarking.com, the listings on geocaching.com would simply be archived. Any finds previously logged would remain in place, just like any other archival.

#39 User is offline   Team Sagefox 

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 09:19 AM

Lil Devil, on Aug 21 2005, 09:25 PM, said:

Even if locationless/virtuals/webcams/earthcaches are "moved" to waymarking.com, the listings on geocaching.com would simply be archived. Any finds previously logged would remain in place, just like any other archival.

I'm ok with that also. In fact I'm sure those finds would have to remain or there would be hell to pay in the forums for years to come.

#40 User is offline   EraSeek 

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:56 PM

I would transfer my (so-called) locationless and my vitual over to Waymarking IF it could be done and keep them in tact. But there is no way this can be done with the way they are set up. So if they are not grandfathered in, they will be trashed.
Not much I can do either way but wait and see what happens. :D

#41 User is offline   Ambrosia 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 01:33 AM

catcher24, on Aug 21 2005, 06:10 PM, said:

I think southdeltan makes a good suggestion under proposal #3. Lock the thread now - no more proposals accepted after a certain date. Get all of the locationless caches that are going to be ported over done. Then start down the posts in the proposals thread. He is right in saying that the most likely ones to be good will have the most replies. Vote on those, get them done. Then do the voting on those proposals with fewer replies. Once all the current locationless caches/WM proposals are done, reopen the thread to everyone. I also concur that for a while, only PM's should do it, simply to cut down on the confusion. If some bad categories get placed, they will eventually go down to the bottom via the popularity votes, and can perhaps eventually be deleted at the discretion of the PTB. It sounds like a good, workable solution and should be seriously considered.

I don't agree that the proposals with the most replies are the best. I see a lot of proposals that look great to me, but there are so many that I have long ago given up replying to any of them. I see some wonderful ones that have 0 replies. It doesn't mean that they are better or worse than any others. It just means we have too many to wade through.

#42 User is offline   Ambrosia 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 01:42 AM

I also want to apologize for being one of the first people to propose a new waymark. I didn't realize until reading this thread just now that we were not supposed to?

I very carefully read all the faqs, and the pinned threads by Jeremy. I wanted to make sure that I did it right. I thought that he had said that they were not accepting new waymarks at this time, but that we should start a thread with the title: "Category Proposal...(name of proposed category)", and put in where it should be, ie, people place or thing, and give a name, short description, long description, etc. And then people could post to that thread and give suggestions and we would slowly edit our first post to reflect those changes. I read that all very carefully, and then did it. I'm now confused because it sounds like we were not supposed to start proposing categories? :D :D

#43 User is offline   Ambrosia 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:12 AM

Aaahg! Now I'm really confused. Maybe I just don't understand all this new terminology. Perhaps this is what you all are talking about: is it that it's ok to propose new categories (waymarks?) , but that we are not supposed to log (waymark?) any of the categories (waymarks?) that have been approved and are on the new site? I'm not sure if I am using the words right.

If this is the case, I'm even more confused. I was thinking that this is one of the reasons premium members were introduced to this site, to be able to start putting in these logs (waymarks?) , to help test the site, and get it slowly introduced to a broader audience.

Can this be clarified in an easy to understand language, what we exactly can or can't do? I logged (waymarked? still don't know which word to use) the plane crash site, and the geocaching tour guides. I was planning to do more, but I do not want to do more if we are not supposed to.

Thanks. :D

#44 User is offline   catcher24 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:42 AM

Ambrosia - I didn't mean to imply that those without as many replies were no good at all. It just seemed to me that if the thread is locked now, it would make sense to start whittling the large number of suggestions down by commencing with those that have the most replies, as those are the ones that seem to have generated the most interest - positive or negative. Once those are done, and the volume is less, Jeremy could list another five or ten that originally had fewer replies, but with ony five or ten to discuss would probably receive a lot more discussion that before. Continue in that fashion untill ALL of those presently suggested are taken care of, then open up the thread to new suggestions.

In regards to the suggestion thread, I think Jeremy caused a great deal of confusion. He didn't want any more suggestions, but in one of his posts somewhere he says as long as people were proposing new categories anyway, he would put up the thread, with his post stickied at the beginning saying that although it was a category proposal thread, they wouldn't count but would give people a chance to learn the process. I thought it was a mistake to do that as it would probably create a lot of confusion, and it appears it has. :D

I do believe it is OK to log waymark finds (near as I can determine), and I think PM's can actually add waymarks to the categories that gc.com started the site with. I know a local cacher who added a waymark to one of the categories, and it showed up as accepted.

This post has been edited by catcher24: 23 August 2005 - 02:43 AM


#45 User is offline   The Royles 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:33 AM

The question I have now is should I develop the ideas that I have posted, knowing that as it stands I may well not get the categories I have suggested.

When the system does go 'live' people will be waiting to get in their proposals, and this is likely to be in the early hours of the morning for me, as I am in the UK. This means that there will be a period during which anyone who has seen the categories I have put up and think they are good ideas could register them before I get the chance.

I do however feel that if some preference could be given to the people who have already put up a category, we could all work on them and have them in a much more ready state for the big turn on.

#46 User is offline   Sanruft 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:37 AM

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Note: We are currently discussing how to accept new waymark categories. We are not going through the process at this time

How about Pocket Queries?

We will have Pocket Queries for waymarking as well, but it will be more advanced and will have fewer limits due to the semi-permanence of waymarks over geocaches.


I see that Waymarking will have pocket queries, which is fantastic. As premium members, will we have 5 Waymark queries per 24 hours AND 5 Geocaching queries within 24 hours? Or will it be a combined total of 5?

#47 User is offline   Lil Devil 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 10:39 AM

TeamSanruft, on Aug 23 2005, 10:37 AM, said:

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Note: We are currently discussing how to accept new waymark categories. We are not going through the process at this time

How about Pocket Queries?

We will have Pocket Queries for waymarking as well, but it will be more advanced and will have fewer limits due to the semi-permanence of waymarks over geocaches.


I see that Waymarking will have pocket queries, which is fantastic. As premium members, will we have 5 Waymark queries per 24 hours AND 5 Geocaching queries within 24 hours? Or will it be a combined total of 5?

Aauuuuugggghhhhhh! Stop comparing waymarking.com to geocaching.com! :mad:

They are different sites each with their own set of rules and guidelines. I'll bet you a month of Jeremy's pay that the PQs will be totally separate :mad:

#48 User is offline   Sanruft 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 11:13 AM

Lil Devil, on Aug 23 2005, 10:39 AM, said:

TeamSanruft, on Aug 23 2005, 10:37 AM, said:

Jeremy, on Aug 15 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Note: We are currently discussing how to accept new waymark categories. We are not going through the process at this time

How about Pocket Queries?

We will have Pocket Queries for waymarking as well, but it will be more advanced and will have fewer limits due to the semi-permanence of waymarks over geocaches.


I see that Waymarking will have pocket queries, which is fantastic. As premium members, will we have 5 Waymark queries per 24 hours AND 5 Geocaching queries within 24 hours? Or will it be a combined total of 5?

Aauuuuugggghhhhhh! Stop comparing waymarking.com to geocaching.com! :mad:

They are different sites each with their own set of rules and guidelines. I'll bet you a month of Jeremy's pay that the PQs will be totally separate :mad:

LOL! Well, they are linked via the forums so I guess the comparison comes naturally (Plus, we use the same login, etc...)...And for he record, ALL of my posts have been in favor of the Waymarking site...I think it is great! :mad: So, sorry for making you mad...Just wondering about features and how they will work. I thought this was the place to ask these sorts of questions...

Not willing to bet any pay..I like both sites and haven't complained about a single item regarding either. So whatever the choices and options of either site, to me it is still just a game/hobby and I appreciate both for what they are. :D

#49 User is offline   Ambrosia 

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 03:55 PM

catcher24, on Aug 23 2005, 03:42 AM, said:

Ambrosia - I didn't mean to imply that those without as many replies were no good at all. It just seemed to me that if the thread is locked now, it would make sense to start whittling the large number of suggestions down by commencing with those that have the most replies, as those are the ones that seem to have generated the most interest - positive or negative. Once those are done, and the volume is less, Jeremy could list another five or ten that originally had fewer replies, but with ony five or ten to discuss would probably receive a lot more discussion that before. Continue in that fashion untill ALL of those presently suggested are taken care of, then open up the thread to new suggestions.

In regards to the suggestion thread, I think Jeremy caused a great deal of confusion. He didn't want any more suggestions, but in one of his posts somewhere he says as long as people were proposing new categories anyway, he would put up the thread, with his post stickied at the beginning saying that although it was a category proposal thread, they wouldn't count but would give people a chance to learn the process. I thought it was a mistake to do that as it would probably create a lot of confusion, and it appears it has. :mad:

I do believe it is OK to log waymark finds (near as I can determine), and I think PM's can actually add waymarks to the categories that gc.com started the site with. I know a local cacher who added a waymark to one of the categories, and it showed up as accepted.

I see what you are saying, slowly dole out all the proposals, starting with the ones that have caused the most discussion first. That makes sense.

And as for this all being confusing, that's probably easy to do to me. Did I ever say that I need a lot of help? :mad: :mad:

#50 User is offline   Kidatheart 

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 09:18 PM

Are benchmarks going to move also?

In the Future will the stats page be combined so I can see mine regardless of what I am doing be it, benchmarks, caches, or the new site?

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